Air Pump Disconnection

[noiva]

I am wondering if I can disconnect the air pumps on my 1989 370LE. It has a Ford 460 engine, and there is a single belt that does nothing but drive the two pumps. Has anyone else done that? Is there any problem with taking the belt off if all it does is run the pumps? I've heard of people disconnecting air pumps, but have never done so personally. It does seem it would give the engine a slight amount of relief, however small, but I don't want to do anything to mess up the engine performance either. Looking for some of you who may have experience with this.

Thanks,

Tim

[Nye Thatcher]

Tim. They are an important part of the emission system and without them it might mess up your fuel system and you will not pass an emission inspection.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by Nye Thatcher

Tim. They are an important part of the emission system and without them it might mess up your fuel system and you will not pass an emission inspection.

Nye,

We don't have emission inspections in Virginia except to visually see if catalytic converters are there (my MoHo never had any), and that one doesn't have dual exhaust unless the vehicle was originally equipped with that (of course, mine did). I'm not trying to pollute any worse, however. Just curious, what type of trouble might I get with the fuel system? My coach is a carbed Ford 460 - very primitive by modern standards. No fuel injection, electronics (except ignition), nor most of the other engine controls on newer vehicles. Also, has no catalytic converters, since it was exempt at the time of manufacture. Again, I'm not trying to mess up the environment any further, and I certainly don't want to mess up the fuel system. What kind of problems will disconnecting cause?

Thanks for the help,

Tim

[swebster]

Tim,
I've did it on my 454 when I replaced the exhaust with headers. Here is a link you might find useful: http://www.airforums.com/forum...s-19876-3.html

The only changes were improved performance and better mileage. I rebuilt the carb around the same time (to stock) and saw only improvements.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by swebster

Tim,
I've did it on my 454 when I replaced the exhaust with headers. Here is a link you might find useful: http://www.airforums.com/forum...s-19876-3.html

The only changes were improved performance and better mileage. I rebuilt the carb around the same time (to stock) and saw only improvements.

In your link are you saying you took off all the tubing that seems to run all over the place, including two hoses that go into the air cleaner housing? If so, did you blank all the resulting holes, and if you did, how did you do that? Would I accomplish the same result if I left everything where it is and just disconnected the pumps from their drive belts? I'd really like to get some of that heat out of there, especially since there really is no serious attempt with these older classics to control pollution. My exhaust manifolds (stock Ford) have been redone (broken bolts - new gaskets) at least twice since 2001, and I have only 16,000 miles for the entire 17 year life of the vehicle. I looked at after market headers, but my engine compartment is too narrow. Apparently, the 370 with the Ford 460 is a little tighter than the ones with Chevy engines.

Tim

[swebster]

Well I'm not familiar with the AIR system on the Fords. I think disconnecting them will give you a little less resistance on the accessories, but the real benefit for me came when I removed all of that "junk" from the exhaust ports.

I took out all of the tubing. I only had one 1" opening on side the air cleaner (outside of the element) so I just left it open. I suppose I would probably pop rivet some sheet stock in there if it bothered me.

I really wanted to clean up the engine (it looks more like a muscle car engine now - basic with a big old carb on it) and less that engine breath.

BTW - It's hard to image less clearance in there.

[noiva]

(Quote)BTW - It's hard to image less clearance in there.__________________
Steven Webster




I agree absolutely! I dropped a portable phone from inside my coach today while I had the dog house cover off. Amazingly, it actually made it to the ground . I had earlier dropped a much smaller fuel filter box in there, and couldn't find it for two days.

Tim

[swebster]

Originally Posted by noiva

Amazingly, it actually made it to the ground
Tim

It's worse when it doesn't make it through. I spent about twenty minutes once looking for a 9/16" open end wrench once only to find it sitting in the front frame crossmember. I still can't figure out how it got there!

[GlenCoombe]

Tim, see my post http://www.airforums.com/forum...air-18943.html
If you're concerned about doghouse temps you can use the mod that Clubmaxx did on his coach, not an AS. He used ducted hose from the area in front of the rad. His main concern was to cool the starter. Positive ventalation is a good thing.
Giving the engine more to breathe is a great way to boost power. More air better combustion.
Like Stephen said I'm not a Ford guy either. How much intake air capacity do you have. Chevy's with the single horn aircleaner intake just cry out for this easy to make mod.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by GlenCoombe

Tim, see my post http://www.airforums.com/forum...air-18943.html
If you're concerned about doghouse temps you can use the mod that Clubmaxx did on his coach, not an AS. He used ducted hose from the area in front of the rad. His main concern was to cool the starter. Positive ventalation is a good thing.
Giving the engine more to breathe is a great way to boost power. More air better combustion.
Like Stephen said I'm not a Ford guy either. How much intake air capacity do you have. Chevy's with the single horn aircleaner intake just cry out for this easy to make mod.

Glen,

Thanks. I followed that air intake modification when you posted it. Very interesting. I'm not a Ford guy either, but with this 370, I don't have much choice. The air cleaner housing actually has two intakes, one on either side, and the one on the right side actually goes out almost to the front grill. I'm planning to start by extending that one to the grill to take advantage of the air as it comes in the front. Short of spending money I don't have right now, that's about all I can do. Heat hasn't been a major problem yet, but we'll see this summer. I have a large double auxiliary electric fan that was put right in front of the radiator to push air directly across the core. I've switched it so I can control when it runs. Haven't even needed it yet, but I'm sure I'll use it this summer. Those fans also keep air moving past the engine and therefore down and out of the doghouse. Maybe later, I'll see about running another duct like the one in that project. Thanks for your interest and help.

Best,

Tim

[Nick Danger]

Tim.............

I talked to the Banks people at the Tampa show last year about installing their header system. They told me it won't fit on the 370's because of the way the Gillig frame is designed. He didn't think they had any plans to provide for this in the future.

Let me know if you do any of the removals you've mentioned above.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

Tim.............

I talked to the Banks people at the Tampa show last year about installing their header system. They told me it won't fit on the 370's because of the way the Gillig frame is designed. He didn't think they had any plans to provide for this in the future.

Let me know if you do any of the removals you've mentioned above.

That's the story I got a year ago when I was considering the change. I'm probably going to wait a little on removing the life-support from the air pumps, but I still may disconnect the belt that drives the two pumps just to see if it runs with a little less effort. Not that it's straining now.

Tim

[swebster]

Hmmm. Jegs sells header flanges and tubing kits. Know any good welders in your area who can make up a set of custom headers for the 370?

[noiva]

Originally Posted by swebster

Hmmm. Jegs sells header flanges and tubing kits. Know any good welders in your area who can make up a set of custom headers for the 370?

No right off hand, but I have a shop that would know who does that kind of thing. I'll check. First, I've still got all the heater hoses to replace since most of it is 17 years old . That includes almost 2 20' pieces to the auxiliary heater. Not leaking, but I don't want to test the life span of rubber hoses on a vacation. Also, still replacing all the filters, etc., checking to see if I've actually stopped a hydraulic leak from one of the stabilizer hoses , and then I hope to put a Gear Vendors over/under to help with that 5.29 rear axle at highway speeds . Next, I'll look at a structure to cover this thing . Then, if I'm not in debtor's prison , I'll look at getting some custom headers made. Does this order of events sound about right?

Thanks for the help, as always.

Best, Tim

[swebster]

I think a GV overdrive would be a sound investment given your rig's current setup (read school bus gearing). Replacing the hoses is absolutely a good idea.

The headers are nice but a well running, tuned, stock engine is a beautiful thing. My headers made sense only because upgrading was less expensive the replacing the original failing exhaust system - and the bolted on out of the box.

It's always a cash balance on these things. So many things I want to do tempered only by limited time and money. I figure if I hold onto mine as long as I would like then I'll eventually get there, and we can enjoy it along the way.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by swebster

I think a GV overdrive would be a sound investment given your rig's current setup (read school bus gearing). Replacing the hoses is absolutely a good idea.

The headers are nice but a well running, tuned, stock engine is a beautiful thing. My headers made sense only because upgrading was less expensive the replacing the original failing exhaust system - and the bolted on out of the box.

It's always a cash balance on these things. So many things I want to do tempered only by limited time and money. I figure if I hold onto mine as long as I would like then I'll eventually get there, and we can enjoy it along the way.

Steve,

Thanks. I couldn't agree more. By the way, today I went to DMV and my insurance company. The 370LE is LEGALLY MINE!!!!

Tim

[overlander63]

Tim, the less crap is in the engine compartment, the more room there is for unobstructed ventilation.The less stuff being turned by the engine, the better. If you get all the hoses and stuff out of there, and take the pumps and belt off, you should:
1- be able to work more easily in the engine compartment.
2- get slightly better fuel economy.
3-get more cooling air around the engine.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Tim, the less crap is in the engine compartment, the more room there is for unobstructed ventilation.The less stuff being turned by the engine, the better. If you get all the hoses and stuff out of there, and take the pumps and belt off, you should:
1- be able to work more easily in the engine compartment.
2- get slightly better fuel economy.
3-get more cooling air around the engine.

My only serious concern is that there are 4 tubes on each side that appear to screw into the manifold. I assume I have to plug those with small bolts the size of the fittings on the tubes? Any ideas about that. The rest of the smog pump stuff looks pretty straight forward concerning removal.

Tim

[swebster]

I assume I have to plug those with small bolts the size of the fittings on the tubes?

You are correct. This is where my header replacement began. I thought I might be able to remove the fittings and tubs and screw in plugs. But those bad boys where RUSTED!

You might be able to get away with leaving the control valves to keep the exhaust in check.

[noiva]

Originally Posted by swebster

You are correct. This is where my header replacement began. I thought I might be able to remove the fittings and tubs and screw in plugs. But those bad boys where RUSTED!

You might be able to get away with leaving the control valves to keep the exhaust in check.

Steven,

I just got in from replacing air filter, fuel filters, pcv valve, carb/air cleaner gasket, air cleaner, improvising a missing gasket for the carb fuel filter (fiber washer kit from the hardware store), and then replacing all the water hoses back to where they split to go to the auxiliary heater . Looks like all my hoses were original (17 years old), but in amazingly good condition. I still feel better having all new hoses, even if I did cut my hands to pieces and contort my arms and shoulders out of joint . I also added shut-offs to both the out and return side of the coolant hoses at the engine. Now I can cut off all hot water to both heaters in the summer, and I'll have an emergency cut-off abililty should I spring a leak in any of those many hoses or the heaters . I'll tackle the hoses going to the auxiliary tomorrow or Friday if I can still move. Anyway, I was looking over the amazing complexity of the smog pump life support , and after just reading your experience with rusted fittings, I think I may just take the belt off the pumps. The Ford engine is designed with a single belt that does nothing but drive the two smog pumps. I figure it can't hurt much to take it off. Should free up a little resistance on the engine, and I can always put the belt back on if something screws up. Trying to remove the whole system looks like major surgery to me. I can't afford new exhaust manifolds now, and it looks like everything else sort of goes to or comes from those tubes. Any advice? What do you mean by "leaving the control valves"? Does that mean a partial removal of the smog equipment, or just leaving the whole mess there except for disconnecting the pumps?

Thanks for your interest and help.

Best,

Tim