454 oil galley plug problem

[bkahler]

I've been slowly working towards installing the ancillary parts on my fresh 454 rebuild and ran into a problem. The engine builder installed a plug in the oil galley where the oil pressure sender goes. I tried removing it today and it was so tight the hex opening in the plug rounded out. Yes, I had full depth with the allen wrench when I was doing this I then tried an easy out (easy my *ss) and it bit but wouldn't loosen the plug. It then rounded out the plug even more. I'm not sure what he used for sealant when he installed the plug but it's not coming out.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Are there any other oil galley plugs that can be used for oil pressure sensors? If so where are they?



Thanks,

Brad

[PeterH-350LE]

holy crap, have you thought about welding the wrench to it?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by PeterH-87MH

holy crap, have you thought about welding the wrench to it?

If I can find no other alternative I might give that a shot. I've had success in the past removing broken bolts that way but needless to say I'm not thrilled about the idea of welding something to my freshly built engine

Brad

[perryg114]

Is that the only place you can tap into the oil gallery? If you can't find another place to put the sender you are going to have to drill out the old plug. The problem is that there is a real big chance of messing up the threads. You could take the engine back to where you got it and let them deal with it.

Perry

[Steve Bryant]

The plug might have been installed with red thread locking compound, which will not break loose with hand tools. Can you contact the engine builder and see what he recommends? Welding might be an answer. If someone who has good welding skills adds some rod or wire (it could be mig, tig or stick in my opinion) a little at a time so as to not heat the plug too tight and crack the block; then once the hole is filled and the weld sticks out proud by about 1/2" you might be able to get some vice grips on the weld and back the plug out. The heat of the weld may break loose the thread locking compound if that is the problem.

I agree with Perry. If the engine builder is a local person, I'd try to get him to come over to your place and see if he will help you (at no charge). I'm sure that you'll get this worked out, but it sure is frustrating!

Steve

[wvabeer]

Red loctite can be released with heat

[lonestranger]

Originally Posted by perryg114

Is that the only place you can tap into the oil gallery? If you can't find another place to put the sender you are going to have to drill out the old plug. The problem is that there is a real big chance of messing up the threads. You could take the engine back to where you got it and let them deal with it.

Perry

On the 454, I believe there should be a plug at the oil filter mount that goes into the oil galley, as well as a plug next to where the distributor mounts - worth checking.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by wvabeer

Red loctite can be released with heat

Using heat on a brand new engine scares me! I think I would rather leave that plug in place and pick another place to put the oil pressure sender.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by lonestranger

On the 454, I believe there should be a plug at the oil filter mount that goes into the oil galley, as well as a plug next to where the distributor mounts - worth checking.

I'm assuming the oil pressure port by the filter housing would be the small square plug to the left of the large square plug above the oil filter mount. If that's the case then I'll try and remove that plug this weekend.



Thanks,

Brad

[wvabeer]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Using heat on a brand new engine scares me! I think I would rather leave that plug in place and pick another place to put the oil pressure sender.

It doesn't require that much heat to release red loctite

[dznf0g]

It has been forever since I have seen an oil flow diagram for a 454, let alone worked one one, but I believe that the port at the filter will give you basically pump output pressure, whereas the one at the front of the engine gives pressure after all the leak off after (at least ) the mains are lubed.

For me, I'd rather know the "low side" pressure. That lets you know the relative health of the bearings AND the pump. Mounting at the filter could give a "false high", I think...IIRC.

Use some heat and get the front plug out is my advice.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by wvabeer

It doesn't require that much heat to release red loctite

If I use heat what I'm thinking is to use my smallest welding tip and heat the inside of the hex (or what used to be a hex, now its round) with the tip of the blue flame. I'll start out just touching it momentarily and see what that does.

Still scares the crap out of me

Brad

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

It has been forever since I have seen an oil flow diagram for a 454, let alone worked one one, but I believe that the port at the filter will give you basically pump output pressure, whereas the one at the front of the engine gives pressure after all the leak off after (at least ) the mains are lubed.

For me, I'd rather know the "low side" pressure. That lets you know the relative health of the bearings AND the pump. Mounting at the filter could give a "false high", I think...IIRC.

Use some heat and get the front plug out is my advice.

I agree, I'd rather know the pressure after it's been through the bearings. As I stated in my post above I'm going to go ahead and try some heat.

I'm hoping to give it a try this weekend.

Thanks,

Brad

[Smartstream]

I have a little device held together with a 1/4" set screw that is Loctited in. The item is powder coated. The instructions for disassembly are to heat with a propane torch to release the Loctite. It released with no damage to the powder coat finish. The bottom line is it really doesn't take that much heat to release the Loctite.

Good luck, Dan

[wvabeer]

you do need to get a good grip on the plug after you heat it to remove it

[bkahler]

Well, I won't be able to try heat to remove the set screw until next week. I ran out of oxygen while cutting apart the 345 and the only store in town where I can exchange the bottle is closed until Monday

Brad

[Steve Bryant]

Brad,
If you have a few minutes this weekend, take a look at this video.

How to Remove a Broken Bolt - Exhuast Manifold Stud Removal - YouTube

The situation in the video is that an exhaust manifold stud has broken flush with the exhaust pipe flange and someone has tried to use an easy out that also is broken flush with the flange. The guy uses a TIG technique to weld an extension on the stud to remove it.

I think that you have a better situation in many respects in that your oil galley plug is not stuck due to rust and hasn't been in place for a number of years. I think that if you can just weld something onto the plug that you can grab with vice grips, the heat of the welding will likely break loose the thread locking compound...at least that's what I'm hoping. Then you'll be back in business. There's also an oil pressure sensor at the center back of the valley (behind the valve lifters) where oil pressure gages are hooked up.



Take a look at this thread Oil pressure - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network. Keep us posted on your progress.

All my best,

Steve

[bkahler]

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I've actually used the weld-it method before on a broken manifold stud. I used a Mig welder to attach a nut. By welding on the inside of the nut it keeps you from welding the stud to the block

What really intrigues me is the fact that most Chevy's seem to use that port in the back of the block by the distributor. I wonder why Airstream/Chevy used the front lower left tap for the P30 chassis? As dznf0g mentioned previously I would rather know what my oil pressure is at the end of the line rather than the beginning or middle. The thread you listed has some good information.

Like I mentioned previously I'm not at all excited about welding or heating that plug. It is at the very corner of the cast iron block and my concern is if the plug expands more than the cast iron (or faster) then I can easily see the cast iron cracking in that area. If this was a plug in the middle of a big chunk of cast iron I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.

I think since most Chevy's seem to use the port by the distributor I'm going to forgo trying to remove the plug and take the easy way out by using the more commonly used port

At the end of the day I just want to make sure I have an oil pressure reading so feel free to call me a chicken or a coward

Thanks!

Brad

[Steve Bryant]

Brad,
You're welcome. I personally think that I'd tap the rear valley area and just forget the other plug myself. The port at the rear of the valley will be sensing the pressure that is being fed to the cam journals, which is a good place to take the oil pressure too!

Steve

[bkahler]

Well it was fun while it lasted

I just got back from the shop where I checked out the rear of the block looking for the oil pressure port. I checked both the Argosy block which is actually from an 1981 Chevy pickup and the 1986 345 block. Nothing, nada, zip



Not sure why but Chevy seems to have discontinued providing that oil port.

I guess it's back to trying to remove that stripped plug.

Brad