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06-05-2010, 04:07 PM
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#21
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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I too fall in the advance the timing till it pings and the retard it till it stops camp. An old hot rod technique.
Another old trick only applies to a known good balancer, something to consider if you replace. Scribe or paint a line from the inside of the balancer to the outside, crossing the rubber dampening material. That way you can verify that the outside of the balancer has moved or not. Unfortunately, that doesn't do you much good now.
__________________
Vaughan
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06-09-2010, 03:26 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Oh for an easy solution
I ended up burying my head in the sand on the timing issue, and moved on to replacing the driveshaft carrier bearing. The next step appears to be removing and inspecting the harmonic balancer.
In the above image, it looks okay to me. Am I looking for the right signs of trouble?
Tom
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06-09-2010, 09:40 PM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,378
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Hi, in your picture the harmonic balancer looks good; One that has slipped usually shows lots of cracks in the rubber isolator, or the parts are out of alignment. I don't see that. I would try to find, physical, top dead center. Then see if the timing marks line up. Don't get me wrong, but even if it looks good, it still could have slipped.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-10-2010, 03:15 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
What could have happened is the weight on the balancer has shifted...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
...but even if it looks good, it still could have slipped.
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I used to think the harmonic balancer was pretty sturdy. But, come to find out, new ones are readily available at chain-parts stores, and there is even a place in Oregon who will rebuild my Suburban's existing one. So harmonic balancer failure is apparently not that rare.
I'll let you know Saturday how the Mighty Burb's harmonic balancer compares to a new one.
Tom
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06-12-2010, 03:06 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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In conclusion
Although all signs pointed to a shifted harmonic balancer, I still had doubts about mine because it was stiff, and looked okay. But after comparison to a new one, I knew the problem had been found. Look at the timing marks with respect to the woodruff key slots in the image below:
The outer ring on the oiginal equipment shifted over 135 degrees.
The new HB has a nice feature the old one did not have - the opening bore had been increased a thousandth or two to make it easier to install.
Thanks, everyone, for your help.
Tom
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06-12-2010, 12:00 PM
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#26
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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Wow Tom,
That's quit a shift! That photo really tells the whole story, doesn't it?
Now make the mark across the rubber from the inside to the outside. I've seen a cold chisel used for that too. Support both sides and give it just enough of a hit to put a small line across that will still show through the paint.
Glad you figured out the problem and shared for everyone.
__________________
Vaughan
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06-13-2010, 03:34 PM
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#27
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
I ended up burying my head in the sand on the timing issue, and moved on to replacing the driveshaft carrier bearing. The next step appears to be removing and inspecting the harmonic balancer.
In the above image, it looks okay to me. Am I looking for the right signs of trouble?
Tom
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This photo of the timing mark guide is great, you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find one. In that photo of the marker it looks like you have it advanced to 16 degrees? Am I rigHt in reading that and is that what it should be set to?
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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06-13-2010, 03:48 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Picture is for general illustration only
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmehal
... Am I rigHt in reading that and is that what it should be set to?
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No.
That is a "static" picture taken after the motor was switched off.
The spec on my '84 454's timing is 4 degrees BTDC.
Tom
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06-13-2010, 03:51 PM
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#29
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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I see. I would assume that it would be the same on my 1975 argosy.
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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06-13-2010, 03:52 PM
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#30
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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Also sFrom your picture where is the 4 mark? Now that I look at it closely it hard to tell if there is a 4 on there or what the increments are
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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06-13-2010, 04:02 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmehal
I see. I would assume that it would be the same on my 1975 argosy.
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I would not make the same assumption.
My engine's timing is specified on the air cleaner housing on a GM sticker. Check your Argosy's housing for a similar sticker.
Tom
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06-13-2010, 04:08 PM
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#32
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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No longer have that housing as I've Upgraded to a fuel injection system with custom plenum
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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06-13-2010, 04:37 PM
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#33
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmehal
No longer have that housing as I've Upgraded to a fuel injection system with custom plenum
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I would say that you should have taken notes, but pretty much "Not Stock=Not Stock Timing" anyway.
The fuel injection manufacturer may have some recommendations, but check out post 12 and 21.
__________________
Vaughan
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06-13-2010, 11:20 PM
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#34
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New Member
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
mckinleyville
, California
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3
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i have an old trick that doesnt even require a timing light or the vibration dampner .an old gear head told me to use a vacuum gauge and hook it up to a non ported vacuum outlet on your intake i used the one directly underneath the carb you attach the vacuum gauge then you adjust your timing to your highest vacuum reading then you drop it down about 5 to 8 pounds less than your highest reading that should put your timing right dead on perfect i did that to mine after i had the same problem you have with the dampner shift and mine runs like a raped ape now and gets better fuel mileage last trip i got a tad over 11 mpg dont want to say 12 but it was damn close and thats in a 32 foot 1985 southwind with 77k on it i live on the north coast of california and we have some pretty good mountains here so that kind of mileage is fantastic .anyway good luck
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06-17-2010, 09:56 PM
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#35
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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Ok I just bought a timing light with digital advance settings. Removed plug number one and cranked engine until cylinder #1 came up to the compression stroke. Removed cap looked at rotor then rotated cap so it lined up with cylinder #1. reinserted plug and wire and cranked engine. Engine fired up and ran rough, used timing light and rotated cap until timing was zero. This is all being done with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged. At this point I set timing light to 4 degrees advance and rotated cap to zero mark again, engine runs smoother and idled around 800rpm which is correct. Here's the problem, when I reconnect the vacuum advance the engine stutters and dies!!
Is there some electronic/mechanical bit inside that may have failed? BTW the cap and rotor are new. Base is old
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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06-18-2010, 06:56 AM
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#36
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4 Rivet Member
1986 32' Excella
vledder
, drenthe
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 411
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Like to try the vacuum meter way to set the timing.
should I give it some more advance becouse I'm using 110 octane fuel ( propane )
And will this have a possitive result on the milage
Thanks
Remco
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07-20-2010, 07:20 PM
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#37
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3 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
1975 26' Argosy 26
beaverton
, Oregon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 169
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bought an adjustable timing light and attempted to set the timing. Set the timing to 4 degrees advance as instructed by my GM veteran mechanic. Then when connecting the vacuum advance back up the engine craps out and dies. Called my GM friend again and he suggested changing the ignition module. I did this and it immediately solved the problem. Im now carrying a spare! Anyways to make a long story short timing is now set to 4 degrees advance and the thing purrs like a kitten!
Thanks all.
__________________
1965 31ft Airstream Sovereign
1975 26ft Argosy Motorhome
Imagine the sight of them linked together!
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11-03-2013, 05:20 AM
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#38
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New Member
Mocksville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2
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timing pointer
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmehal
bought an adjustable timing light and attempted to set the timing. Set the timing to 4 degrees advance as instructed by my GM veteran mechanic. Then when connecting the vacuum advance back up the engine craps out and dies. Called my GM friend again and he suggested changing the ignition module. I did this and it immediately solved the problem. Im now carrying a spare! Anyways to make a long story short timing is now set to 4 degrees advance and the thing purrs like a kitten!
Thanks all.
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i have been reading all the post about timing and my 454 is missing the lower pointer which explains why i can not use a light does anyone know where i can purchase one i can not seem to locate one i am sure someone has one some where i just can't find it!! Thanks!!!!
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11-03-2013, 05:23 AM
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#39
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New Member
Mocksville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2
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timing pointer
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmehal
bought an adjustable timing light and attempted to set the timing. Set the timing to 4 degrees advance as instructed by my GM veteran mechanic. Then when connecting the vacuum advance back up the engine craps out and dies. Called my GM friend again and he suggested changing the ignition module. I did this and it immediately solved the problem. Im now carrying a spare! Anyways to make a long story short timing is now set to 4 degrees advance and the thing purrs like a kitten!
Thanks all.
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i have been reading all the post about timing and my 454 is missing the lower pointer which explains why i can not use a light does anyone know where i can purchase one i can not seem to locate one i am sure someone has one some where i just can't find it!! Thanks!!!!
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11-03-2013, 08:02 AM
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#40
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,408
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Go to Summit Racing
Then search "timing pointers". There are many choices!
Also RockAuto.com or J.C. Whitney!
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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