From the We Knew This Was Coming Dept.

[ralley]

I'm not sure I should get into this argument, but maybe I already am, so here goes.

1. 1970's fuel prices did not result in excess profits for the oil companies as a whole. It was a supply based issue. The cost of fuel, as a percentage of aveage household income, was (if I remember correctly) higher, so the ripple effect through the economy was faster. We have had historically high fuel prices for more than a year, and you may just now be seeing that begin to effect folks like Thor Industries. In 2005/2006, fuel prices, as a percentage of average household income, simply haven't mattered enough to have an effect.

2. Oil companies do NOT set the price of fuel (or oil). Futures contracts do. Oil companies make profits (essentially) charging fees for extraction, refining, and distribution. They are clearly taking advantage of the situation, (and my 6-8 mpg Airstream) but there are many, many more whose main activity has also been charging what the market would bear. Is road fuel tax revenue down in your state yet??

R

[bryanl]

OK, we have the socialist agenda working to castigate the capital needed for finding new resources as "excess profits" and all that ...

That doesn't get very productive. (but it is instructive about how emotional something or others can lead to irrational rants)

So, how about instead using market surveys in the RV industry that don't put fuel cost as a significant factor in current sales? see RV News On Line - The Voice of the RV Industry

[Silvertwinkie]

Uh, ok.....not sure anyone was talking socialist....just pointing out a fact that the oil companies are taking advantage of the current situation, plain and simple. No emotion, just fact. How can a company or companies have the biggest profit in U.S. history when there is plenty of oil? Fact is that it is plain greed and we have an administration that frankly is taking care of it's own (and I am a fair supporter of the current administration, except in this case). No one can tell me that most of the money these folks are making is going into exploration and alternate fuels. McDonald's could roll something out for 1/3 what these folks raked in these past 24 months....and that would be just with their veg oil.

I bet the same folks calling names and throwing socialist stones work for Microsoft....of course Microsoft never took advantage of their position either........and all the folks that complain were just socialists or unhappy communists......

[rseagle]

While the BaseCamp may have brisk sales initially, I think they will level off as the novelty wears off. Airstream will always have a steady market for towables 25' or less. The trend will be how to lighten the weight of the aluminum trailers to coincide with the lower tow capacities of the more fuel efficient vehicles. I understand that the European Airstream prototype has been introducing some weight saving features. Perhaps an aluminum clad 13' Casita clone will be introduced.

I applaud Airstream and Thor for recognizing shifts in the market and adjusting accordingly. Hopefully we'll continue to see more innovation from Jackson Center.

[bryanl]

"not sure anyone was talking socialist....just pointing out a fact that the oil companies are taking advantage of the current situation"

yep, that's the definition!

Capitalist is looking at profits and saying 'I want a share' and going into the business (or buying stock) to get it. Socialist is deciding that the profits are unfair or obscene or excess and need governmental intervention to fix.

Thor was one of (a pair of, really) those capitalists when they bought out Airstream. Their attempts to protect their trademark (another thread here) and the focus on classic towed vehicles and their attempts at putting the name on strange RV's are all capitalistic efforts to "take advantage of the situation" and reap "excess profits."

What next? A diatribe about how Airstreams shouldn't be so high priced because so and so "could roll something out for 1/3" ?

[Silvertwinkie]

Acutally here is the definition:

socialism: noun a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. • policy or practice based on this theory. • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

I don't think I said the community should regulate it or that I want a part of it, my point was that the oil companies are taking advantage of a situation, simialr to what Microsoft did. That doesn't make it socialist, that just means folks are being greedy. Nor does the definition state "Socialist is deciding that the profits are unfair or obscene or excess". That's your definition and it is not entirely correct.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered and we can go round and round on this all day....you won't see anyone else's opinon as correct as some folks will and have disagreed with you and your "views".

Keeping this Airstream related, Airstream is not in bed with the other RV companies, they just buy them out and/or take them over. That is pure capitalism, however, there are rules to capitalism....for example the breakup of AT&T, Enron, Microsoft etc. None of the things that happened to these companies were done because of Socialism. They broke the law or they were found to have a monopoly and/or abused the monopoly. I feel that years after 2008, we all will find out how much big oil was riggin' the system....one thing is certain, it won't happen until after the next election.

[InsideOut]

Gas prices, etc...

How about if we get this thread back on topic...Airstreams!

Shari

[Anon]

Originally Posted by 1985air345

...then bring back the Minuet (just leave the Pacer out of the marketing material! The base camp is a cute gimmick. The Minuet's are a better alternative. Just look at the prices that the Minuets bring today after 25+ years!

Oh by the way, Casita cannot make enough small lightweight fiberglas trailers to keep up with demand. Maybe there is something there.............(of course Thor could always buy Casita and make it part of Airstream.)

AMEN, brother!
I gave up the space of my larger Argosys to have the leightweight Minuet! It is well-built and very leightweight. Mine tipped the scales at 2450 lbs. AFTER all of my restoration. If they want something that would sell re-engineer the Minuet! Leave out all the "foo-foo" stuff of the CCD or the Quicksilver. Give us something lighter... Bottom line.

[wheel interested]

Congratulations Lou on 1000 posts!!! We knew this was coming!!!!

[bradk]

Being only an owner of a work order for a 19' Bambi (please f-fwd to April 15th!), I'm fresh from on-site research.

During my trips to the dealerships to have a look at Airstreams, there were some Airstream motorhomes on site that I had a chance to look at. My father is the proud owner of a Beaver motorcoach, friends of his own Monaco's (same company). From his perspective, the quality and overall appearance of an Airstream motorhome comparative to a same priced Beaver or Monaco, there really was no comparison. The Airstream did not have near the attraction to it.

Now, he's an owner, so let's take the bias (at least for the most part) out. I'm an Airstream work order owner and I had the exact same feeling. The Airstream motorhomes, comparably priced don't have near the attention to detail that you'd expect at that price range.

Part of Airstream's reasoning for getting out a busting at the seams industry like motorhomes probably is that their focus would always be split between the towables and the motorized. Companies like Monaco etc are full time and devoted to one section of the market. Airstream is probably just sticking to what they are known to be "best at", which is towables versus diluting both lines.

my 0.02,
brad.

[funchucky1]

Bradk's got the right idea.
A LARGE percentage of Airstream's staff is spent building Moho's that represent a very SMALL percentage of their production, and, undoubtedly, their profit. So how can you blame them?

[Rog0525]

I think that if they had applied common sense to their marketing, the moho market was there. When they went overboard with the extravagant Skydeck they breached the market IMHO. Yes we all want Airstream quality in our RV's but who amongst us can afford a Skydeck? I think that if you are going to market a product, it needs to be within the reach of the average consumer. I see plenty of mohos on the road but they are the garden variety which are available to consumers who have that kind of money to invest. There is definitely a market for larger mohos but price does become an issue that the Airstream ledgend may not be able to compete in.

[Rog0525]

I predict that this will be met with almost as much enthusiasm as the new formula Coca Cola found. It just isn't the Airstream quality and longevity we have learned to expect. It's a half-breed.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Rog0525

I predict that this will be met with almost as much enthusiasm as the new formula Coca Cola found. It just isn't the Airstream quality and longevity we have learned to expect. It's a half-breed.

Roger, It's not marketed or targeted toward "us", the current Airstream owner base. There is no expectation that anyone will leave the Airstream for a Basecamp. It's targeted at twenty-somethings who want something different or are buying their first trailer. It's a way to hook the next generation of Airstream owners on the Airstream marque... and not a very good one IMHO.

And, BTW, Airstream priced themselves out of the "average buyer's" market years ago. Thank God there are folks who are willing to trade in nice used units that we "average buyers" can afford!

Roger

[Chaplain Kent]

I have been in the new Base Camp and what really surprised me is that is is a toy carrier and not a camper. The design is to carry your ATV or Motorcycles to your friendly neighborhood campground and race around all weekend then drive them back into the Base Camp on the nice corrugated steel floor fold up the ramp and take off. Notice how it looks like a horse trailer? The beds are 50" long with a 5" foam mattress. No doubt they will sell but I sure hope I never see one when I am out camping. I would hate to hear what comes out of that back end. Further I do not thonk fuel costs were a consideration when designing this toy.

[rseagle]

Originally Posted by Chaplain Kent

The beds are 50" long with a 5" foam mattress.

50" beds, huh! That's pretty short. Is it marketed for the "Vertically Challenged" in PC terms?

[Mike Lewis]

I find it puzzling the company would go off with another product when customers like myself wait 12 weeks for an ordered trailer. It seems to me that putting more energy into what is selling well would make more sence.
Pieman

[markdoane]

I don't understand why the class A Motorhome lasted as long as it did. All we heard a few years ago were complaints about poor quality, breakdowns, multiple trips back to the factory, etc.

My son-in-laws parents bought one.

You only get one chance to screw up. Someone else, like Monaco, will eat your lunch.

[Rog0525]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

It's targeted at twenty-somethings who want something different or are buying their first trailer. It's a way to hook the next generation of Airstream owners on the Airstream marque... and not a very good one IMHO.
Roger

Have you seen the price tag? If my kids can afford this, I'm cutting them out of my will.

[2airishuman]

wow mike....

a 12 week wait.....that is too long

was that from the day you placed the order or when the dealer called it in?

my wait about this time last year.....was much shorter....and worth it to get a specific package.

2 weeks for production; 4 wks to get on the list....so about 6-7 total...and still it seemed long


and markdoane....

i agree it is a wonder they piddled on.....

at 1 a week for so long....with class a

my previous post about the basecamp (in this thread)..

earned me bloody red karma....i know not why.....so here i go....

another issue to keep in mind......on the basecamp (beside the 5th wheel)...

the basecamp was designed with/by the nissan studio in california...

is it possible a/s is starting to think globally about their market share....

the name is know world wide.....

and the silver places are worshiped abroad...

could we see a basecamp for the asian market....or from it?

it is interesting to read about the euro/airstream trailer....

i will love seeing one and wonder how the "origin" sticker will read...

if you've compared the current westfalia model with the interstate.....

the fit/finish and appliance content on the euro built uinit is so much nicer than the one done in jc.....

and with trim/appliances/bedding and finish screws.....

we cannot even get here......

hummmmm

and rog.......
ya know the target market...
is gonna pull these with honda pilots, nissan muranos, infinity whatevers, lexus thingies, mercedes m classes, vw touaregs, porsche cayennes...

and so on....

so a 25k trailer behind a 50-80k suv is about right, price wise....in the target market....

2air'