California smog test report on MH

[Astrodokk]

Just had my "pre-inspection" smog test. I was told that I failed the test. My baby is a "gross polluter"! So they took it across the street to a mechanic and he said it was high in hydrocarbons...800 range. That means that it isn't burning the fuel very efficiently and that it will cost me 200 bucks to find out why.
Ok, so I'll be paying it, but I'd like to pick brains here and ask what could it possibly be? I think, although I'm not a mechanic, that it may be the carburetor? I don't want to be told it may be this or that, and pay for many different things if it isn't what's causing the problem. I have noticed that the inside of my MH smells like exhaust everytime the engine is on and I'm stopped and idling. I thought it was a leaky doghouse, but it's not as simple as that now. I need to pass the smog test to have the title and registration.
So, for all you folks out there thinking about buying out of state where there is no smogging, and going to register in a smogging state, my suggestion to you would be to do a pre-smog inspection if there is a way to do it, before purchasing, or it can cost $$$.
I will report again on what the mechanic finds.

[torin knorr]

Are you near Redwood City? I had Redwood General Tire smog my 85 270 this year, they know alot about RV's and trucks. I passed no problem and I know there were a few issues from the past that the original owner didn't take care of. I do know that Calif has a new smog test that is tougher on older cars and trucks.

[uwe]

High HC, unfortunately, can have many causes. Most common are intake leaks, or worn carburators. Vacuum leaks are also intake leaks, in a way.
Low compression or faulty EGR can also cause high HC ( Hydrocarbon) readings. Rich mixture will make HC go up, so will a mixture that's too lean.
Make sure you go to someone that knows your equipment inside and out.
Sometimes diagnostic procedures do require one or the other item to be repaired, seemingly unrelated to the actual symptom. The mechanic will have to repair most or all related issues before he ( or she) can properly diagnose your problem. Good Luck, and please post your results. The CA MH forum members will likely run into this sooner or later.

[Astrodokk]

Thanks for replies. I will keep on reporting as they come in. I'm located in Santa Rosa, an hour north of San Francisco, close to Duncans Mills where the Vintage Airstream Club will hold an event this coming October 8-12.
If I am told that I need a pretty extensive make over for the MH, I will consider replacing carb with one of the ones mentioned in other posts. Also was thinking about headers and Gear Vendor too. Might as well upgrade if repairs will require alot of dismantling.
As soon as they tell me what I need, I'll post it here so that I can get opinions.
Thanks all.

[85MH325]

Originally posted by Astrodokk
Thanks for replies. Also was thinking about headers and Gear Vendor too.

Make sure you check into the 'smogability' of the headers. I bought a Toyota FJ-40 Land Cruiser some years ago when I lived in Lake County CA, and in order to get it smogged, I had to replace the headers it had on it with the 'stock' manifold. Headers didn't pass the 'visual' smog check to have 'original smog equipment' present. I don't know if that's still the case, but I don't think that CA has lightened up much since '97.

Since it's not a passenger car, you may be able to get by with it, but I'd check before investing in headers you'll have to take off again.

Roger

[ALANSD]

off topic -- but I played music at the Santa Rosa fair in the 80's. it sure is a beautiful area!!

[59toaster]

Originally posted by Astrodokk
Thanks for replies. I will keep on reporting as they come in. I'm located in Santa Rosa, an hour north of San Francisco, close to Duncans Mills where the Vintage Airstream Club will hold an event this coming October 8-12.
If I am told that I need a pretty extensive make over for the MH, I will consider replacing carb with one of the ones mentioned in other posts. Also was thinking about headers and Gear Vendor too. Might as well upgrade if repairs will require alot of dismantling.
As soon as they tell me what I need, I'll post it here so that I can get opinions.
Thanks all.

Really need to know how the test is run and if they see the high HC at idle, under load, deceleration etc.

This could be something as simple as a mis adjusted choke, impropper mixtures settings, bad PVC etc.

It could be that the MH sat to loong or wasn't run long enough before the set was run and it was still cycling the choke.
81 should be electric choke. The electric elements get weak and do require replacement every few years. Part is only $30 but it's know how to install it and adjust it that you might pay through the nose for.

I set my idle mixtures with a Vac gage. not hard to do if you know how.

Is that the original carb to the engine? Lots of times if the original carb has had a problem people will put a rebuilt carb on that may have the wrong jet sizes. Personnaly after some of the problems I have had out of rebuilt carbs from Pep boys I always rebuild my own because I know it's matched to the engine properly.

www.jegs.com or www.summitracing.com both sell NEW Quadrajets. If your going to replace the carb I would say that's your best choice. they will have a model that is identical to the factory model.

Before you spend the cash on a carb I would do a good tune up with a shop becides the one accross the street from the DMV that seems to be gouging. a Good tune up should cost no more then $250 including new wires, cap, button, plugs, and timing. Probably less. Find a place that has a gas analyzer that will check it's emissions outputs and stand behind their work that it will pass.

Some general tips before smogging ANY vehicle.

Freash gas. If it has been sitting 6 months the gas is stale and that alone may cause a fail.

Get it hot and keep it hot before taking it in. More peopl drive a mile up the road to the emmisions station then turn off the car and wait. The vehicle is no where near operating temp. Cats, Fuel injection, automatic chokes will all fail you if they are not up to full temperature. I always make a point to make a trip 4-5 miles up the hwy then straight to the emmisions test.

If your near due for a oil change then do it now. If the vehicle is a sitter, change the oil.

The reason is PCV system burns off blow by and vapors from the crank case. If the vehicle has been sitting in humid climates it may have conciderabl condinsation in the oil. This will become vapor at operating temperature. That vapor is run through the engine to burn off and can cause a fail if it's excessive. Same with oil with a lot of miles. The oil is very contaminated by blow by and condisation. This is especialy true of short tip vehicle that only run up to the local store and back and don't spend anytime on the hwy. They don't get those vapors burned off.

Don't buy into those snake oil "pass emmisions" addatives. If you keep up with the genral maintaince they are not needed.

I have had two cars (well 3) fail emmisions in the last 15 years. One was fixed by a new set of plugs and wires and the other was 100% my fault and it happend Saturday. I had replaced a timming belt on my wifes Honda and left a intake air temp sensor unplugged. Passed with flying colors once I found that.

Emmisions equipment are a crock! The sole purpose of them (other then PCV and EVAP) is to clean up a car that is not running optimally. I two years in a row passed emmissions on a 1979 Chevy full size blazer with NO CAT. First time the guy didn't do the visual. I honestly went for the fail so If for some reason I didn't pass I could show the cats being purchaced and get an exempt if it didn't pass on the 2nd run through (emmisions tests are a lot more lax here then Cali). The reading on a dyno run were well within exceptable. I did not do anything other then make sure the truck was running the best it could, no BS with backing off the timming and snake oils.

Second test it did pass the sniffer but the guy caught it on the visual.

Shops pray on uneducated consumers. I would NEVER let a shop work on my car that can't give a estimate before repair. $200 just to look at it is hwy robbery. Basic diagnostic on that vehicle is nothing. I could see a charge but with the right equipement a compident mechanic should have a pretty good idea what's going on in 30 minutes or less. At a reputable shop I doubt it will take more then $200 to get that vehicle running right unless the carb is actually bad and needs rebuilding or replacement.

[Astrodokk]

Yeah, I agree that they have me at this point, but my eyes are wide open. I guess the 200 bucks is their estimate for diagnosis. This mechanic is actually a truck repair place (big rigs) who are the only ones close by that are capable of handling large RV's with their equipment. They are across the street from the smog place that also does mechanical repairs on vehicles, but didn't have the capacity for my rig, so I told them to take it across the street. It was my request, not their suggestion, although I think they do it all the time.
Nonetheless, I printed the previous info so that I could be more informed when I speak with them. Hopefully they won't think I'm trying to second guess them when I ask questions about stuff in the above post. If they are genuine, they should not be offended at all. That's what business is about...service.
I'll keep all posted.

[Astrodokk]

Just got my report. The guy said that he thinks it's the carb. Alot of the doghouse insulation has probably worked its way into it. That insul is in terrible shape. He said it would cost probably another 2-250 to rebuild or get a replacement. i told him I would look this up in the forum, and he said it was fine, except I have to do it so it will pass smog legally.
So, should I rebuild or replace? I heard that Edelbrok makes a good one that is almost exactly the same. The mechanic said I have a Rochester in mine.
I will also search carbs and see what I find.

[uwe]

If you can afford it, I would suggest NEW. Always.
I have had terrible luck with rebuild carbs ( and other parts) on various vans and trucks over the years.
Just my 5c of advice....

[85MH325]

Originally posted by Astrodokk
Just got my report. The guy said that he thinks it's the carb. Alot of the doghouse insulation has probably worked its way into it. That insul is in terrible shape. He said it would cost probably another 2-250 to rebuild or get a replacement. i told him I would look this up in the forum, and he said it was fine, except I have to do it so it will pass smog legally.
So, should I rebuild or replace? I heard that Edelbrok makes a good one that is almost exactly the same. The mechanic said I have a Rochester in mine.
I will also search carbs and see what I find.

Hmmm.... I'd be a little suspect here... If your air cleaner is stock, and if your air cleaner has a filter in it, and provided that your carburator is bolted down and not sucking air through the manifold spacer (if it has one) or any other places, how would doghouse insulation make it's way into the carburator? I suppose that a mouse might be able to chew it's way through the air filter; or there might be some other reasonable explanation, but somehow that just doesn't sound really feasible to me.

Roger

[Astrodokk]

Bob, the mechanic, said that it looks like someone has already messed with the carb and did something to the "plate".
Well, he thinks there's alot of crud in the bowl getting sucked deeper into something. Since I've been thinking of replacing it anyway, how would I find the correct Edelbrock carb for my model? He said that this carb may not have come with the MH.

[PeterH-350LE]

send an email to Edelbrock with your year/engine specs.
The response will probably be EDL-1906 with electric choke.
These Qjets bolt right on the OEM manifold with no adapter plate needed. The only mod would be the electric choke (a good thing).
Thats what I put on my 454 and I am very pleased with it. (Had to mess with the idle mixture a bit, but no big deal)
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

[dsrtquest]

Over two years ago I replaced the carb on my 454 with an Edelbrock 1411 carb. This a 750 CFM squarebore with electric choke. The carb has performed flawlessly and the engine runs very clean and smogs easily. It cost just under $300.00, much less than a Quadrajet and much simpler as well. If a carb is really what you need I can recommend this one. Make sure you have a good mechanic diagnosing your problem as there are many things beside a carb that can cause high HC.

Best of luck

Jerry

Addendum: I had an Edelbrock manifold that accepted the 1411 without mods. An adapter would be required for use on a spreadbore manifold such as comes stock on this engine. These adapters typically cause a slight drop in low speed torque and a slight increase in high RPM power. (It functions as a carb spacer)The adapter with 4 discreet ports is preferable to the one with 1 big opening.

[Astrodokk]

After replacing my old original Rochester quadrajet with a new edelbrock # 1906 electric choke carb, my MH passed with flying colors.
Now i can concentrate on other less important things like the leaking hydroboost, hoses, and belts.
Also was informed what I already knew that my left exhaust manifold has a crack. They recommended Thorleys. I'll wait. By the way, the old starter was shot, so i bought a remanufacture Delco for 70 bucks. So far works like a charm. We'll see if it lasts. If not, i'll go the route Alan took with the adaptable aluminum one.

Thanks everyone for all your help and in put on this one. Peter, your idea worked fine.

Roger, I'm not going back to these guys...I feel they were gouging the labor fees. I'll get other opinions since I have two estimates now from 2 different places.

YEA!

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally posted by Astrodokk
[B........... like the leaking hydroboost.....[/B]

those guys really got it down to scare people and make it sound expensive.
My take on the leaking hydroboost:
Your $3.50 rubber return lines from the powersteering to the hydroboost are leaking because the hoses got hard over the years due to the heat.
Tip: much easier to replace with the drivers side manifold removed, which seems to be part of your future repairs.

[thenewkid64]

I saw BRAND NEW replacment 454 manifolds on Ebay with BIN's of 70.00. AD copy says they are designed to rectify the OEM troubles with cracking.

Don't know if they are any good, but 70.00 is way cheaper than a dealer.