89 AS 345 Newbie with so many questions!!

[wimpy]

Newly acquired RV thru an auction, Chevy 454, Quadrajet. Has been sitting (car covered) approximately 16 months, I believe prior to that it also had been sitting for awhile. PO changed fluids, drove it less than 800 miles. Suffered hail damage to the roof thru the car cover, insurance sale.

Would this be the Serial # 847040BP? VIN:1GBKP37W0J3317xxx

Initially sounds like a dead battery as it turns over, but cranks & runs, temp gauge on dash is broken, but HOT light comes on indicating overheating after about 10 minutes of road driving, power is great, some carb issues. PO says they had no issues with overheating.

I've removed the thermostat to eliminate that as an issue, need to replace damaged coolant recovery bottle. Have aftermarket temp gauge which will be installed in place of current setup, will replace filters & install 19" Auxiliary fan, just to get it back to my locale.

Are there other known problems that would cause the overheating I've experienced?

Needs: Owners manual-trying to figure out how stuff operates has been daunting.

6.5 Onan NHE genset will crank & run for ~10 minutes & shuts down. While running it shakes the entire AS.
Any suggestions as to the problem(s)?

At some point would like to remove the "Smog pump" & its accompanying hardware as the number of rotten vacuum hoses will require a reel of new hose.

Look forward to getting all the mechanical issues handled, then deal with the front water leaks, then the niggling issues with drawers that open while driving, etc.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[WayneG]

First, get a good engine temp gauge to be sure you have a problem.
2nd put the thermostat back in, never run without it except in a emergency.
3rd, check the radiator for plugging of the tubes, that is the most common overheating problem.

If the radiator checks good, make sure all the radiator air diverters and shrouds are installed.
Beyond that it could still be a bad water pump, bad engine timing or some sort of excessive vehicle drag.
As for the smog stuff, my 84 only had a air pump which was not much drag on the power but I removed the pump and capped off the tubes so I could install a TBI fuel injection kit.

[bkahler]

Wimpy, welcome to Airforums!

Originally Posted by wimpy

Initially sounds like a dead battery as it turns over, but cranks & runs, temp gauge on dash is broken, but HOT light comes on indicating overheating after about 10 minutes of road driving, power is great, some carb issues. PO says they had no issues with overheating.

The overheating could be real or imaginary. Wayne gave some great advice. I always carry a laser thermometer for verifying temperature. Just point it at various places on the engine and radiator to determine what the temperatures really are.

Needs: Owners manual-trying to figure out how stuff operates has been daunting.

1986 310/345 service manual

1986 310/345 owners manual

6.5 Onan NHE genset will crank & run for ~10 minutes & shuts down. While running it shakes the entire AS.
Any suggestions as to the problem(s)?

More than likely the three rubber motor mount isolators have deteriorated. When that happens the generator can really shake in it's mounts.


Brad

[wimpy]

I had found the service manual from an earlier post, but thanks for the owners manual. I have a laser thermometer and will be using it. I'm trying to avoid using the insurance road service.

[wimpy]

Looking for an adapter to retain the OE oil sending unit but have the mechanical gauge which will be installed prior to driving again. The initial 8 mile drive only created some coolant loss. The 2nd 10 mile drive had coolant loss & steam, but after a stop to try & get permission to use their parking lot, she started right up and I was able to drive to another location close by.

Could you tell me what the pieces between the hose & AIR pump are in your top picture? Do you know if the top on the EGR (the round top) turn?

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by wimpy

I had found the service manual from an earlier post, but thanks for the owners manual. I have a laser thermometer and will be using it. I'm trying to avoid using the insurance road service.

Yeah, getting your moho flat bedded home can take the shine off ownership, especially if on a trip. Do your due diligence and look at a systems entirety and not just one obvious problem.

For example, fuel system:

Fix or rebuild the carburetor may fix your immediate running problem, but not fix problems in the future.

Drop the tank and flush out old varnished fuel and crap, inspect, and now's the time to reline the tank. Also look into the possibility to install an in tank fuel pump which will aid in fuel delivery and ward off fuel starvation, or vapour lock.

Change all fuel lines to Ethanol friendly lines as the OEM lines in these old queens are getting old and Ethanol will eventually compromise them. We have lost a number of these old queens to fuel fires as that 454 gets really hot.

Change the fuel filter and heat wrap any fuel lines that are directly over the engine.

Each system will have its own things to check and fix, but skimping and not looking at the entire system front to back will cause you problems.

Good luck and welcome
Tony

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by wimpy

Looking for an adapter to retain the OE oil sending unit but have the mechanical gauge which will be installed prior to driving again. The initial 8 mile drive only created some coolant loss. The 2nd 10 mile drive had coolant loss & steam, but after a stop to try & get permission to use their parking lot, she started right up and I was able to drive to another location close by.

Could you tell me what the pieces between the hose & AIR pump are in your top picture? Do you know if the top on the EGR (the round top) turn?

One thing I did not mention is that if the radiator cap is not holding pressure properly, you will loose coolant, generate steam & overheat.
The pieces in the center of that photo are the air pump bolts and the one way valves that were screwed onto the exhaust injector port manifold and went to the Tee hose to the air pump. I used a threaded cap to seal the injector manifold.
As for EGR, my 84 did not have one. It is actually a 83 P30 chassis and somewhere in those years they started using the EGR hardware.
At 89, yours must be one or two years short of fuel injection hardware

[Koheleth]

I had an '86 345 that got to overheating so bad that you couldn't drive it ten miles. Discovered that the outside of the radiator between the engine radiator and the a/c radiator was caked up with greasy dirt and crud. It was running well under half a radiator. After I cleaned it out, it would run at 160 degrees all day.

Something to check.

Neal

[lyleapgmc]

Using your IR thermometer scan the radiator from top to bottom and left to right. Any cold areas indicate blockage in the radiator.

A garden hose directed through the radiator from the engine side will remove a lot of debris that may be blocking air flow.

Ten minutes seems like a very short time for an engine to actually over heat.

What does the coolant look like? Is is nice and clear with possibly only some rust color or is it milky and looks like a chocolate malt? Same with the oil. Look at the inside of the oil cap. It should only have clean oil on it. If it is milky or the coolant is milky you possible have a serious problem. It is either oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Neither one is good. The worst would be a cracked head or block. I sure hope it isn't that. Head gaskets will cause the coolant and oil to mix.

U-Pull-R Parts or Pick a Part are good sources for parts. It is a bit chancy but most of those places will take returns because "it doesn't fit, I measured wrong". You need to bring your own tools, of course.

There are many sources of information about repairing dash instruments. They aren't terrible complex.

The information already given above is spot on.

Lyle

[wimpy]

That's what's so weird, the oil looks like it just came out of the can and the antifreeze that was puked initially was bright Prestone green. I've played shade tree for a lot of years and seen the milky oil & rust-red coolant.

Pullapart will be the 1st stop on the way to get her fixed tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

[Boom Sounds]

Fan clutch. Replace with heavy duty Delco.

[chriscraw]

Similar overheating issues when I purchased my 350LE. Have since replaced the radiator, installed twin electric thermostat operated fans, heavy duty Delco clutch fan (as mentioned by Boom sounds) and finally, a high flow water pump. The engine will now stay more of less at 200 degrees unless in Texas 100 degree plus heat when it will nudge 210 degrees with all fans running at full bore!
Unlike "Koheleth" above, the only time I see 160 degrees is on start-up!
Ultimately, the 454 engine buried inside the cowl of an Airstream motorhome pulling 16,000 lbs is a bad deal...notice that Koheleth has since "upgraded" to a diesel which is the end game I'm afraid.

[wimpy]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

Fan clutch. Replace with heavy duty Delco.

Had to get a coolant recovery tank as the existing one (looked to be non-OE), was rotten. Pullapart sourced from a V-8 C series.
Bingo!! After spending several hours trying to separate the extension from the water pump, finally looked at the online pictures of replacement unit to realize my mistake. Boy, am I stupid. Bought new fan clutch, replaced fan clutch, topped up the coolant.

Wired the AC fans to always be on. Drove 60+ miles in 90° heat. Analog gauge showed 230° max, but generally around 190-200°.

Next up is a carb rebuild as there was some spitting back, bogging with full-throttle acceleration.

1. Gas gauge bounced most of the trip, is this normal?
2. Should there be a kick-down under full throttle?
3. Has anyone fabricated a panel to force air flow from bumper into radiator (preventing air flow down & below the radiator) & would that be beneficial?

[Boom Sounds]

Gas gauge shouldn't bounce

That panel is a discontinued GM part. I posted a part number not so long ago. I reckon you could pick one up from a breakers if you find a bread van 93 or newer

[Boom Sounds]

Originally Posted by chriscraw

Similar overheating issues when I purchased my 350LE. Have since replaced the radiator, installed twin electric thermostat operated fans, heavy duty Delco clutch fan (as mentioned by Boom sounds) and finally, a high flow water pump. The engine will now stay more of less at 200 degrees unless in Texas 100 degree plus heat when it will nudge 210 degrees with all fans running at full bore!
Unlike "Koheleth" above, the only time I see 160 degrees is on start-up!
Ultimately, the 454 engine buried inside the cowl of an Airstream motorhome pulling 16,000 lbs is a bad deal...notice that Koheleth has since "upgraded" to a diesel which is the end game I'm afraid.

Hi Chris - do you have a part number for the water pump you installed? Thanks Nick

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by chriscraw

Similar overheating issues when I purchased my 350LE. Have since replaced the radiator, installed twin electric thermostat operated fans, heavy duty Delco clutch fan (as mentioned by Boom sounds) and finally, a high flow water pump.

Handy hint— if the engine overheats, when you're done fixing the problem change the oil! When oil overheats (inevitable when the engine it's in overheats), it breaks down to form a sticky golden-brown substance that is called "varnish" for lack of a better term, that will coat all moving parts and gum up the works, leading to increased engine wear. Changing the oil doesn't get rid of varnish that's already coating things inside your engine, but does ensure that less varnish will be deposited on moving parts.

When I worked as a mechanical engineer for the Army Corps of Engineers, I subscribed to a trade magazine called "Machinery Lubrication." Learned more than I ever wanted to know about what happens when oil overheats.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by wimpy

3. Has anyone fabricated a panel to force air flow from bumper into radiator (preventing air flow down & below the radiator) & would that be beneficial?

The early Argosy motorhomes had a unique front valance that had an air scoop incorporated into it. Here's a couple of pictures of the units Martin and I had reproduced for our Argosies.

In later rigs Airstream replaced this one piece unit for the three piece units, outer corners and center section, as found on 77s and later.


From 74 to around 81/82 the radiators were mounted vertically in the chassis.

Brad

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by Boom Sounds

Hi Chris - do you have a part number for the water pump you installed? Thanks Nick

Nick me old mate....sorry but I overlooked your question until I re-visited the thread. Here's the link to the pump I purchased and installed. Bought it from JEGS...twas bloody heavy and not too sure of the rate of flow as the physical dimensions were identical to the old unit I removed.
Here's the link
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...51036/10002/-1
I was actually trying to find an alloy (aluminium) cast version for greater heat dissipation but just could not find one to fit the BB 454. As I said in my post, the end result of all these mods is a cooling system that at least holds the temp at 210 deg. F...more a combination of all these factors.
Currently am trying to source a replacement A/C condenser coil as well as upgrading the "in cab" evaporator and "squirrel-cage" blower. I'd love to relocate the condenser coil away from the front of the radiator so as to improve air flow but cannot see where else to put it. One idea is to locate a wider but lower profile condenser right at the bottom of the engine radiator that would still benefit from air flow..will let you know if I'm able to locate the bits.

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Handy hint— if the engine overheats, when you're done fixing the problem change the oil! When oil overheats (inevitable when the engine it's in overheats), it breaks down to form a sticky golden-brown substance that is called "varnish" for lack of a better term, that will coat all moving parts and gum up the works, leading to increased engine wear. Changing the oil doesn't get rid of varnish that's already coating things inside your engine, but does ensure that less varnish will be deposited on moving parts.

When I worked as a mechanical engineer for the Army Corps of Engineers, I subscribed to a trade magazine called "Machinery Lubrication." Learned more than I ever wanted to know about what happens when oil overheats.

Thanks for your comments..in the course of the engine rebuild, I installed a new larger engine oil cooler (separate from the original radiator included unit and tapped this from the oil filter mounting. Also added a transmission oil cooler which also assisted in lowering engine operating temperatures.

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by bkahler

The early Argosy motorhomes had a unique front valance that had an air scoop incorporated into it. Here's a couple of pictures of the units Martin and I had reproduced for our Argosies.

In later rigs Airstream replaced this one piece unit for the three piece units, outer corners and center section, as found on 77s and later.
Attachment 290604Attachment 290606

From 74 to around 81/82 the radiators were mounted vertically in the chassis.

Brad

Bred..thanks for your pics. interestingly, I'm in the process of replacing the A/C condenser coil/radiator and would really like to move it from the front of the engine radiator so as to improve air flow. One idea is to replace this with a lower profile but wider coil that would sit below the engine radiator and be assisted by an air scoop similar to what you have pictured. I was not aware that AS produced this piece of gear and would like to get my hands on the fabrication so as to either fabricate in metal or fiberglass mold.