'63 Safari - It 'Bee' Traded (#8671)

[goransons]

Even better yet, had an offer to loan me a rivet gun and bucking bars, maybe this summer you could bring your trailer over and we could replace both panels in the driveway and that way we'd have enough people to do the solid rivets.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Scott, that may just work depending on how slow I am with the interior...
Have a great weekend!
Marc

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by goransons

So it took a lot longer than I anticipated and nothing is bolted in place but it is amazing already how much more solid the trailer feels. Back 4 feet is in, including the drain lines and insulation. Took 3 people on the bumper to get it in place. Here's a few photos of the progress.
4 down, 15 to go...

Scott,
I am glad to see the progress, but you didn't address 62overlander's concern, which is a concern of mine as well. I see you put that rear section in in two pieces with a seam in the middle. I hope the pieces will be glue and screwed together with a generous width backer board to retain the strength of the original single piece floor.

There are folks here that have put in single width floor pieces without the seam, even with the belly pan on. I have heard some pry the walls apart until the floor drops in (it can then be pushed backward under the rear curved section). The other method I have heard is to bend the floor over a pipe or 2x4 to shorten it enough to tuck under the body channels and then pull out the pipe or 2x4. Mind you I haven't done this myself, but I will try to replace the floor in my '55 Safari with single width pieces when I get to it (probably with the bely pan on at the time for the same reasons you mention). If not that center seam would need to be backed by a piece at least as thick as the floor itself and probably a foot in width, attached with screws and glue, to make it as strong as the original floor.

Keep up the good work!

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by goransons

As I prepare to put new rear plywood in, I'm also going through and making sure the rear is water tight. The area around the rear window is really caked up with different sealers. Before I clean this up, I was going to figure out how to deal with this old awning rail. I'm considering removing it and installing rivets in the old holes and sealing it up well. The rail is pretty hashed up and we have no plans of putting a rear awning on, and if we did I'd assume we'd use a new rail anyway.

thoughts?

Scott,
To my knowledge a rear awning was never a factory option on Airstream in the 1960s. Nor was a fiberglass rear window guard an option (the type that you often see on the front window), but you do occasionally see a photo of a rear window guard in the old caravan photos (sometimes side window guards, too, on those caravans). I have to say that from the shots of your trailer in the Around-the-World Caravan videos that I have, I once had the thought that your trailer may have had a fiberglass rear window guard at the time of the Around-the-World Caravan, but the video evidence is probably not conclusive either way (or at least my memory is not conclusive).

If you do not intend to put a rear window guard back on, I see no issue removing the track above the rear window and the lower brackets on either side of the rear window. On the other hand, if you strive to return the trailer to it's "Around-the-World" configuration, we may have to do a little more sleuthing to determine if a rear window guard is appropriate or if the tracks were added for an awning at some later time. I'm sure in time you could find a window guard that would work if you want to go that way (they are on lots of front windows of 1960's Airstreams).

Good luck with your decision.

[goransons]

Thanks Joe - yes the backer behind those is 3/4 inch plywood (the floor is 5/8) and is approximately 16" wide. It is laid in with a generous amount of construction adhesive and screws approximately every two inches. I made the backers so that they also passed under the top lip of the crossmembers (they were routed out slightly with a trim router) which in effect locked that wood panel down even without elevator bolts installed. Even though the construction adhesive will continue to harden for several weeks, I can jump up and down, shift my weight and rock the trailer with no visable movement of the two panels.

My original goal was to install this in one piece, but with the pipes to work around, the heater vent, wheel wells etc there was no way to slide it in as one piece from the inside, in fact it was almost impossible to get it in two pieces. Installing this one panel, even after cut took the good part of a day.

[goransons]

Our goal is to return this to as original as possible while keeping it still practical to use. I am interested in the little details including the rear window, side awnings etc. I couldn't make anything out from the video and stills I saw. I appreciate any help in figuring out the correct set up.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by goransons

Our goal is to return this to as original as possible while keeping it still practical to use. I am interested in the little details including the rear window, side awnings etc. I couldn't make anything out from the video and stills I saw. I appreciate any help in figuring out the correct set up.

These photos I took from the video hint that there may have been a rear window guard on the trailer during the caravan. At least the rear window looks funny and different from the side windows in this whole segment on the video (several seconds worth). And that is also true in other video segments that show your trailer, too.

And the second photo below almost seems to show a window guard extending below the rear window almost to the top of the tail lights.

After checking these and other photo's and the video they came from I am not sure I have conclusive evidence at this time. Maybe this will have to be an ongoing mystery to solve.

P.S. These are also the best photos I could take that show evidence of the "8671" on the rear of the trailer. I think the number comes thru a little clearer on the video than in these still shots, but a little imagination is needed to conclusively say it is "8671". Still I have no doubt this is your trailer being shown during it's travels thru India.

P.P.S. Hey I just noticed (re-noticed?) that the skid plates that your trailer has below the rear bumper are visible in the second photo, so they were there during the Around-the-World Caravan! And of course you can see the extra reflectors that are still on your trailer in the second photo, too. And the first photo clearly shows the rare "large-over-small" Jalousie window that your trailer has.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Hey Scott, it just occurred to me.. I'm having a bit of trouble getting the old split rim spare tire off the mounting rack.. it seems like it has a bolt, which backs up a piece of iron that pressure fits against the rim. Do you know if the bolt and iron plate bar are connected, or does one turn the bolt, which loosens the pressure of the plate against the rim? I think I might need a longer socket to get at that bolt, if it's the bolt doing the work. I've tried getting the plate or bar to rotate around the threaded bar (like loosening a propane tank holder) without any luck.

The kids actually woke up on time today for school!
Marc

[goransons]

Marc - will get out there tomorrow on my lunch break, take a look and snap a few photos. Know mine's been off recently, Rob changed a tire going back to California and had mounted the old tire on the carrier.

[66Overlander]

Here is one more photo that shows the extra reflectors and unusual Jalousie window and hints at a rear window guard. Maybe not conclusive, but a little more evidence???

This photo was taken during the part of the video where your trailer crosses the Adriatic Sea on a boat/barge. At least that's what Vincent Price's accompanying narration says.

P.S. The yellow patch in the middle of the trailer is a reflection of a lamp from when I photographed the video, not part of the trailer.

[goransons]

Marc, sorry today ended up being a non stop day, left the house at quarter to six and didn't make it home for more than a few minutes to drop my son off to my wife then back to work until about 10 minutes ago, so didn't get a photo in daylight. The bar that presses against the rim appears to be standard 1" plate (1/8" thick) with a hole drilled in it, bolt passes through and bolts to the captive nut on the upright behind the tire. So that pressure plate of sorts should be independant of the bolt, at least it is on mine. Tomorrow should be a regular day so I'll hopefully be home in the day light and can get a decent photo up for you.

Joe have you run across any vintage trailer photos of what a rear guard would have looked like? We had weird bit of weather tonight, high winds and in a matter of an hour we went from 23 degrees to 59 degrees. When I got home from work I peaked in the trailer and found the water source, or at least a water source for the wet area you found behind the refrigerator on the ebay auction. The water is leaking first between the riser coming out of the refrigerator vent and the skin, but moreso, the roof had some snow slide down against that riser and it was allowing water to run down the top of the snow and right into the refrigerator vent between the riser and cover. I noticed the 63 cover is much smaller than new ones, I wonder if this is why Airstream went to a larger vent cover? I hope that this brief warm spell will allow me to get home tomorrow and clean up a few of these exterior leaks I've found and get them cleaned out and resealed before this weekend's snow again.

I want to put the closest everything I can back on it, so I'm open to suggestions of what would have been on the rear, I can take closer pictures of the brackets etc, nothing like I've seen before.

Hadn't been in the trailer since Saturday, and the construction adhesive has set up on the seam in the middle of the back 4' and it is as solid if not more solid than the rest of the panel. I am 100% confident that panel is as strong if not stronger than what was there before. I will try a few of those tricks on the next few panels, particularly since they are more simple panels to cut and don't have curves, plumbing and duct work to go around, and I shouldn't have to fight the body so much as I did on the back.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Ah Ha! Thanks Scott... that solves a bit of the mystery for me .. I'd been trying to figure out how the "nut" unscrewed around the "bolt".. seems the bolt and outer nut are connected, with the flat plate just holding pressure to the rim... So the bolt connects close to the trailer skin.. I'll have to lube up that area and give it another shot with a long socket wrench.

No need to kill yourself over photos... your description is great.... (but IF you have time.. photos would be nice... but again, don't rush!!)
Thanks again!
Marc

[goransons]

Marc, here's couple photos, my camera doesn't do to well zoomed in real close.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Hmmm... thanks Scott! Well, my setup is slightly different.. but I'm sure it's the same setup.

Thanks! This should help.
Marc

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by goransons

Joe have you run across any vintage trailer photos of what a rear guard would have looked like? We had weird bit of weather tonight, high winds and in a matter of an hour we went from 23 degrees to 59 degrees. When I got home from work I peaked in the trailer and found the water source, or at least a water source for the wet area you found behind the refrigerator on the ebay auction. The water is leaking first between the riser coming out of the refrigerator vent and the skin, but moreso, the roof had some snow slide down against that riser and it was allowing water to run down the top of the snow and right into the refrigerator vent between the riser and cover. I noticed the 63 cover is much smaller than new ones, I wonder if this is why Airstream went to a larger vent cover? I hope that this brief warm spell will allow me to get home tomorrow and clean up a few of these exterior leaks I've found and get them cleaned out and resealed before this weekend's snow again.

I want to put the closest everything I can back on it, so I'm open to suggestions of what would have been on the rear, I can take closer pictures of the brackets etc, nothing like I've seen before.

I haven't had time to look thru my old Around-the-World and Cape Town-to-Cairo Caravan photos to see if I can get you a good close up of a window guard.

(Of course accidentally discovering another surviving trailer from the Around-the-World Caravan this evening has taken up my time. See: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...yed-47333.html)

The more I look the photos over again and again, I am wondering if the rear window guard was a sheet of aluminum because the color seems to closely match the trailer color, and because I don't see the corrugations (waves?) that the fiberglass window guards usually have. But I suppose it could also have been a flat fiberglass sheet.

I have one more idea. I have contact information for two people that were on the Around-the-World Caravan. Perhaps you could contact them and see if they remember trailer 8671 (which belonged to Cecil and Mary Tolle) and any other unique details about it at the time of the caravan. One is still in WBCCI to this day and the other is the daughter of Andy Charles who was the high ranking Airstream executive that lead the Around the World Caravan. Contact me off line to get their contact information.

[goransons]

I forced myself to walk away on time from work today and leave some things unfinished so I could unwind a little and work on 8671. I started removing the inner side skins so I can take out more plywood. I realized that my pretty plywood in the back is stained now (green) from some type of reaction to the deicer used outside. Stains are in my footprints, I guess I need to be more careful in wiping my feet as I go forward.

I'm fixing leaks as I move forward, and am taking off early tomorrow so I can reseal the back area before the next storm comes in, that way my new plywood will stay dry.

The first photo is the interior curb side, more documented that I did get the skin off, which involved temporarily disconnecting the main circuit breaker. Located big leaks on this side, the outside outlet as mentioned before (notice the visable daylight around it), several open holes for the door catch, and one weeping rivet that will get resealed (it doesn't appear to be loose, just dripping).

Now THE MYSTERY WIRES

2 10 guage wires that go from just above the water heater to just over the license light. There is no main power connection back there, wires were taped with masking tape to the wall (no connections on either end). The wall was prewired for something but can't think what it was. Also there is a coil of extra romex here in the middle of a circuit again taped to the wall. I should note this area is just above the water heater, curb side inside the closet. Any ideas? (The red wire seen in the photo goes to the marker light outside)

[3Ms75Argosy]

Hmmmm... the romex that goes up.. could it be for an optional AC? Another thought... if this was to be a possible "park model"... maybe for an 120v. waterheater?

Love the electrical socket... that could get "electrifying!"
Marc

[goransons]

We got some great weather today and I was able to come home with some day light!

I sealed the outside outlet, new gasket, vuelkem, then undercoated the inside of the rivets areas, back of outlet etc just in case. Tomorrow if the weather holds the trailer will get pulled forward so I can reseal the refrigerator vent.

Pulled out the next 4 feet of plywood, found a big pile of redish clay in the belly pan, set some aside. After reading the chapter of the Elephants pulling the caravan through the muddy roads in the jungle, I wonder where exactly this belly full of clay is from.

Will need to replace the sheet metal over the wire compartment, already have some material left over from other projects to do that. Frame is in great shape, just small amount of surface rust, lots of original paint still left.

Still have no idea what the blue wire is for on the street side.

Also came up with a theory on the rear window cover. The front and rear windows have bolts sticking out of the frame with wing nuts. I think a front and rear windows had some type of guard held on with these Wing Nuts that could be removed when parked. The bottom brackets for the awning are plastic and have "carefree" visable on the inside. There is no awning rail up front, and a cover is clearly visable in the photos, so it must have been those bolts.

Found a large dent just behind the rear vent when I was removing Christmas lights today. Looks like a branch or something had hit it at some point. I think all will press out from the inside, but I'll have to either remove the rear vent (which is why I'll try first) to gain access to the panel or remove the rear end cap.

Last photo shows my deadbolt/travel lock. This turns great from the inside, very smooth etc, but outside spins and spins. Looks like it had some type of pivot from the inside, but has rust in there, so wondering if it had some type of clutch in there. I think I can make it work from both sides by tacking the inside solid. This would provide a nice secondary latch for travel to avoid a door blow open.

[overlander64]

Greetings Scott!

Originally Posted by goransons

Last photo shows my deadbolt/travel lock. This turns great from the inside, very smooth etc, but outside spins and spins. Looks like it had some type of pivot from the inside, but has rust in there, so wondering if it had some type of clutch in there. I think I can make it work from both sides by tacking the inside solid. This would provide a nice secondary latch for travel to avoid a door blow open.

If you find that the lock resist your efforts to rebuild/restore, there is a relatively decent modern alternative. My '64 Overlander had a similar deadbolt (only with an exterior keyed cylinder), and key would turn in it for more than one revolution before it would lock or unlock --this worried me; couldn't keep from thinking about the consequenses if it failed entirely in the locked position. Between Florence in the Parts Deparment and Steve in the Service Department, the folks at Ace Fogdall RV in Cedar Falls, Iowa came up with the modern replacement for my latch shown in the photos below:









On my coach, this lockset has worked out very well, but I am not trying to preserve a historically sensitive coach either.

(You may note that both the handset and deadbolt are new -- my original handset was sheared off when the door blew open while underway in 40 MPH winds -- the new replacement was installed at same time as deadbolt. The door blew open because I hadn't locked the deadbolt due to fear it would fail in the locked position; and I was actually on my way to Fogdalls for the new deadbolt towing from P & S Trailer Service in Helena, OH where the coach had just been polishced and Plasticoated.)

Good luck with your project -- I am one of the many enyoying following your progress!!

Kevin

[goransons]

Thanks Kevin. I would certainly entertain a modern upgrade on something in the security department. Do you have any particulars on model numbers/brands. Also was there any significant modification to the door itself? If so that might be a deal breaker, but if it is a easily reversable conversion might be great.