1969 caravels

[Julison]

Very Cool Day...Sort of!

So today I went and picked up the trailor from its previous "FIXED Address". Hooked it up to my 2005 Hyundai Tuscon and drove it home.
Problem begins here....I kinda thought this might happen. You see, I live on a hill - my driveway is an 11 degree gravel road - I could not get the trailor to the top of th edrveway.... just spinning tires. So luckiliy I have a more round about (through a neighbours yard..across a field...into my back yard) way into my place. So the trailor is at home...safe and sound. Overall it is in very good condition ...a bit of rot under the battery and dc convertor

Q1)
I've got pictures but I can't get the web site to upload them they are ~ 400 kbytes.... (how do you shrink them below the 100 kbyte limit without them becoming all blurry?).

Q2)
I had the impression that the tongue weight was going to be ~ 200 lbs ..tops. I'll admit I'm coming of a flu and don't feel quite up to par - but I could not budge the tongue off the gound. I thought that these trailors were balanced very miticulously..... how could it be soooo heavy?

Q3)
What was the orginal sound system in this model...mine has an old pioneer 8 track.... beautiful sound on the radio... can't seem to find my 8 tracks to test the deck though.

Q4)
I'll assume the frame is heavy gauge steel and that an aluminum frame is mounted and attached to the steel frame..is that right? I noticed that the frame is very rusty back near where the rear bumper is - I'm worried that the frame under the aluminum underbelly could be rotten too - any history of execessive frame rot (i'd like not to peel the panels off the under belly just to make me sleep easier).

Thank in advance for any help ..especially with the tongue weight question.

Gerry

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Julison

Very Cool Day...Sort of!
Q1)
I've got pictures but I can't get the web site to upload them they are ~ 400 kbytes.... (how do you shrink them below the 100 kbyte limit without them becoming all blurry?).

Q2)
I had the impression that the tongue weight was going to be ~ 200 lbs ..tops. I'll admit I'm coming of a flu and don't feel quite up to par - but I could not budge the tongue off the gound. I thought that these trailors were balanced very miticulously..... how could it be soooo heavy?

Q3)
What was the orginal sound system in this model...mine has an old pioneer 8 track.... beautiful sound on the radio... can't seem to find my 8 tracks to test the deck though.

Q4)
I'll assume the frame is heavy gauge steel and that an aluminum frame is mounted and attached to the steel frame..is that right? I noticed that the frame is very rusty back near where the rear bumper is - I'm worried that the frame under the aluminum underbelly could be rotten too - any history of execessive frame rot (i'd like not to peel the panels off the under belly just to make me sleep easier).

Thank in advance for any help ..especially with the tongue weight question.

Gerry

Tongue weight should be around 350-400 pounds. You will find if you use weight distribution bars, it will transfer some of that weight to the front wheels of your Hyundai, and it will go up your hill at home easier, among other things. The tongue weight is deliberatley high so the weight can be moved around between tow vehicle and trailer to balance things out, so it will be more stable.
The best way I have found to post photos here, is to turn down the gain on my digital camera when taking photos, and I can then post them without having to mess with them at all.
The 8 track may or may not have been original, I prefer CD's, and electronic tuners. You can install this in your coach with little problem, in fact I would recommend it, unless you are going to restore your coach to "as built".
Frame rot is a potential problem, I would check for rust holes in the frame, especially along the bottom edge of it. I have some rusty outriggers on our Overlander, I will get them taken care of when I can, but they are not danerously rotted. The best way to check the frame for rot is to remove the belly pan from under the trailer. On your coach, you have a bananna wrap, which is curved from the body to just under normal viewing angles, then a belly pan that goes from the banana wrap under the trailer to the bananna wrap on the opposite side. These are usually riveted on, but may be screwed on. Removing some rivets to check on the frame condition is not tough, just make sure you have rivets to replace the ones you drill out, you don't have to drop the entire pan to get a good look at the frame. Don't be alarmed by surface rust, that is what POR 15 is for.

[Julison]

Hi there,

Here are some pics of the Caravel.
I've heard that you can tell when an axel needs replacing just from a pic. Does mine need repacing..It towed fine....

thanks in advance

[05ModPod]

Hi Julison;

As mentioned we have a 69 Globe Trotter. Not 100% because they did strange things in the change over years - but I would double check your serial number to determine the year of your Caravel - it may be a 1970 as opposed to a 1969.

The front wing windows give it away. In 1970 they used the curved corners whereas in 69 they were square at the bottom - a poor design element - which made them not interchangable thus an added expense and increase inventory.

post your serial number and we can check it out.

[MarkE]

Julison, The overall condition of the body looks fine in your photos. I'd say the axles are prob. okay as it appears that a bit of the tire is visable above the upper-most point on the wheel (rim).

GT6921, Good point regarding the front window design, but...note that the rear window has the square corners, which was changed to rounded corners in 1970. So, maybe this is a late '69 or early '70 model: a bit of a hybrid. As you pointed out, the Airstream factory has produced some interesting combinations over the years.

Julison, Judging by your pictures and description, I think you you made a wise purchase. It will need some minor work (assuming the frame's solid) but nothing major. And you'll have a dandy little trailer to show for it!

Good luck & keep us posted.
MarkE

[85MH325]

Julison, looks like you got a steal, and you should REALLY be pleased that you have the "D" windows from the '70 model rather than the one-year-only square corner windows on the 'standard' '69. Good job! From the Airstream weights file, your '69 Caravel weighs 2880lbs dry with a 360lb hitch weight. Your Hyundai has a tow rating of 1500kg (roughly 3500lbs). You're going to be at the upper limit of your Hyundai's ability with the Caravel. Use a weight distributing hitch (my experience is with Reese, but there are other excellent brands out there as well) with built-in sway control. Load the trailer lightly, and try to travel with the tanks empty. Water weighs 8lbs/gallon.

The axle, IMHO, appears to be marginal. The 'bounce-test' is probably the easiest way to determine whether you need a new one. Have someone stand outside and watch at the level of the wheelwell, and someone else with some bulk stand inside and 'bounce' the trailer. If the outside observer sees travel in the suspension, it's probably still OK. If all your observer sees is sidewall flex, then it's time for a new axle.

Good job! You really did well!

Roger

[Julison]

Originally Posted by GT6921

Hi Julison;

As mentioned we have a 69 Globe Trotter. Not 100% because they did strange things in the change over years - but I would double check your serial number to determine the year of your Caravel - it may be a 1970 as opposed to a 1969.

The front wing windows give it away. In 1970 they used the curved corners whereas in 69 they were square at the bottom - a poor design element - which made them not interchangable thus an added expense and increase inventory.

post your serial number and we can check it out.

Thanks for the input.
The serial # is 018D9J192
Floor Plan: http://www.airstreammotorhomes.com/t...caravel_18.pdf
thanks again,

Julison

[Janet H]

The serial # is 018D9J192


Airstream has a helpful brochure to help date trailers

The way I read your number - it was made early in 69.

O - this one is tough - O meant overlander package in 68 - don't know about 69
18 - 18 feet
D - rear bath/double bed
9 - 1969
J - made in Jackson center OH
192 - 192nd made that year

[Julison]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Julison, looks like you got a steal, and you should REALLY be pleased that you have the "D" windows from the '70 model rather than the one-year-only square corner windows on the 'standard' '69. Good job! From the Airstream weights file, your '69 Caravel weighs 2880lbs dry with a 360lb hitch weight. Your Hyundai has a tow rating of 1500kg (roughly 3500lbs). You're going to be at the upper limit of your Hyundai's ability with the Caravel. Use a weight distributing hitch (my experience is with Reese, but there are other excellent brands out there as well) with built-in sway control. Load the trailer lightly, and try to travel with the tanks empty. Water weighs 8lbs/gallon.

The axle, IMHO, appears to be marginal. The 'bounce-test' is probably the easiest way to determine whether you need a new one. Have someone stand outside and watch at the level of the wheelwell, and someone else with some bulk stand inside and 'bounce' the trailer. If the outside observer sees travel in the suspension, it's probably still OK. If all your observer sees is sidewall flex, then it's time for a new axle.

Good job! You really did well!

Roger

Thanks Roger,

I AM pleased with the purchase...kinda wierd, 3 weeks ago I'd never even heard of "Air Stream" trailers - now I own one.

Question: I have two small children so I tend to focus on safety in any situation. IF the axel is even remotely a source of danger, I'd like to replace it. What kind of cost would I be looking at... Since I only paid $2500 CDN, I would consider dropping a few hundred if it was required. >$500 and I would have to save a bit first.

thanks again,

P.S: IF you are ever travelling through Ottawa, Canada, You've got free hook-up...just send me an email.

[Stefrobrts]

Hi Julison!

Hi, congrats on your new caravel! What a great little trailer - we love ours!

I did an axel replacement on mine because the old axel had no play left in it, and gave the trailer a very rough ride. I took it to a local RV shop which was highly recommended to me by other Airstreamers. They had never done an airstream axel, but they had replaced axels on many other types of RVs and felt sure they could do it.

They recommended a 3500 pound capacity Dexter axel. The complete axel with new brakes and everything, was only $350. I liked having the extra capacity as well (although some will tell you the frame cannot handle the extra stiffness, from conversations with other owners who have done the same thing I don't think it's a problem, but that's just my opinion). Fully loaded my trailer was carrying 2800 pounds on a 3000 pound capacity axel - pretty close to the limit.

So I took my trailer to the RV shop and they measured the old one and custom ordered the new axel. They had some trouble mounting it, had to make up new mounting brackets because the 65-68 caravels in particular have a very short mounting flange. I don't know if your Caravel would have the same problem. They also added shocks though they were surprised I wanted them. They said they normally wouldn't put shocks on this kind of axel because it has built in rubber dampeners to absorb shocks. I figured Airstream put them on for a reason so I had them install them anyway.

Total was about $1000 for the axel and installation. That included many hours of puzzling their way through the custom mounting issues for the first time. They later did another Airstream that I recommended go to them and did it much faster (and cheaper). So I paid the price for being their guinea pig!

But I'm VERY happy with the new axel. It rides like a dream, and we hauled it all the way from the west coast to Oklahoma and back last year without any problems.

So, I just wanted to share my axel experience. Yours may vary a bit, but I'd say if you need to replace yours, try to save up about that much money, and find a place that has some experience with airstreams, or at least with replacing axels on other RVs. Try to get recommendations from other 'streamers.

Check the forum for many discussions of how to know if your axel needs to be replaced. My axel looked good, but I knew it needed to be replaced because of the rough ride it gave. So you are the best judge of your axel's condition. If you think it needs to be replaced, and it is 35 years old, you might just have more peace of mind by getting it done so you don't have to worry about it. It's hard to enjoy a trip if you're worrying all the time!

Enjoy your new toy, it looks wonderful!

[85MH325]

Thanks for the kind offer! We've never been to Ottawa... that may just be the nudge I need to head there one day!

I think that Stephanie pretty well covered it. There are a number of manufacturers of torsion axles; any of them would be just fine. Your most Airstreams have Henschen brand axles OEM. Just make sure that the folks who do the replacement are competent and do the fitment properly. As Stephanie said, there may be a need for some fabrication, but a competent shop should be able to handle it just fine.

These axles have a life expectancy of 15 to 20 years, so it wouldn't be surprising that yours would need replacing.

There isn't really any "danger" per se to having a worn-out axle. The problem is that the trailer will beat itself to death relatively quickly. If you look at unsuspended cargo trailers bouncing down the road, you'll get the idea about what happens when the suspension is worn out. The problem is that the trailer body flies into the air on bumps and then crashes uncontrolled down onto the axle with each bump. It's really not good for the frame or the coachwork. You'll have rivets popping, your cabinets could separate from the frame, and you'll begin to see a variety of other problems surface.

You bought the trailer reasonably enough that you can do a WHOLE lot to it and still not be into it more than it's worth...

Enjoy!

Roger

[Stefrobrts]

I also had floor rot under the battery and converter on mine. That's about in the middle of the streetside. Here's a link to my whole adventure of repairing it.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ight=expensive

Now, in my case I found more rot, and broken frame members, and ended up doing the whole front half of the trailer. It was dirty, nasty work, but it really wasn't that hard, it just took a while to puzzle through. I had to hire a welder to come fix the frame. But the important part is the whole front half of my trailer is fixed now (the back half was ok), I think it cost about $2000, but that included new appliances (heater, fridge, and converter), and it only took the winter before it was back on the road and being used again. So although it was a big mess, looking back it wasn't that traumatic!

Of course you may be able to get away with just cutting away the bad wood and putting in a new patch. There are lots of people on the forum who have had to do that. If the wood isn't too bad there are products like Rot Doctor that will solidify the rotten wood without having to replace it. So explore around and ask more questions, and we'll be happy to try and help.

[Julison]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

I also had floor rot under the battery and converter on mine. That's about in the middle of the streetside. Here's a link to my whole adventure of repairing it.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ight=expensive

Now, in my case I found more rot, and broken frame members, and ended up doing the whole front half of the trailer. It was dirty, nasty work, but it really wasn't that hard, it just took a while to puzzle through. I had to hire a welder to come fix the frame. But the important part is the whole front half of my trailer is fixed now (the back half was ok), I think it cost about $2000, but that included new appliances (heater, fridge, and converter), and it only took the winter before it was back on the road and being used again. So although it was a big mess, looking back it wasn't that traumatic!

Of course you may be able to get away with just cutting away the bad wood and putting in a new patch. There are lots of people on the forum who have had to do that. If the wood isn't too bad there are products like Rot Doctor that will solidify the rotten wood without having to replace it. So explore around and ask more questions, and we'll be happy to try and help.

Hi Steph,

I just read your epic "Floor Repair". Great work.... you should be proud.

After reading your acount, I have a bad feeling about the frame in the back end of my trailer (where the plywood is rotted). I was crawling underneathe ...basically just looking around and I noticed that one side of the trailer is slightly lower than the other....just along the very last 2 feet..again where rot is.

I'll have to find some time to check this out some more....
I don't have much time ( I've got two girls 2 & 4 yrs...and more than a full time job) but I'll ensure that the I know the scope of the problem before I make any big decisions.

thanks for the help,

Julison

[Julison]

Originally Posted by Julison

Hi Steph,

I just read your epic "Floor Repair". Great work.... you should be proud.

After reading your acount, I have a bad feeling about the frame in the back end of my trailer (where the plywood is rotted). I was crawling underneathe ...basically just looking around and I noticed that one side of the trailer is slightly lower than the other....just along the very last 2 feet..again where rot is.

I'll have to find some time to check this out some more....
I don't have much time ( I've got two girls 2 & 4 yrs...and more than a full time job) but I'll ensure that the I know the scope of the problem before I make any big decisions.

thanks for the help,

Julison

So, I traded some hours with my wife...she got to go for a long run while I took the kids to the park...then later, I got to tear the belly pan of the Caravel....what a deal!

I started at the back - where I knew there was some floor rot in the battery compartment. What a sad sight. THe main frame actually had perforation right through it near the back bumper. Also, the last two cross members were rusted completely off the main frame. It shocking to see how much damage can exist underneathe what seems like a "solid trailer".

I then proceeded to remove the rest of the belly pan. Thankfully the rest of the frame is solid....rusty to be sure - but solid.

So, I'm not really sure what to do next.
I'm thinking I'll remove all that blown in foam insulation and then brush the remaining frame clear - and then apply POR15 . Then the tough part.....Do I cut the frame off aft of the wheels and then try to weld on a replacement or (and this is my favourite) sister up some re-inforcing pieces to the existing (failing) frame and then weld that in place. With the main frame re-enforced, I could go about welding the replacements for the two rotted cross members.

Only then can I address the rotted floor.

I'll take some pics for those who like to see how bad things can get.

So, let's recap - I bought this "steal" for $2500. It's funny how relative the term "deal" is.

P.S: It was a real pain getting that belly pan off... It comes off in two pieces - one about 4 feet long, the 2nd about 12 feet.

[85MH325]

Julison... keep your $2500 in perspective... a NEW Airstream is about $2300 per linear FOOT! You got a steal. Your Caravel is rare; in relatively good condition (even with the floor rot and axle issues, the body is pristine...). So, when you're done you have some hours and a couple thousand more in it... and you'll have the coolest Airstream on the block!

Roger

[Stefrobrts]

Don't worry, you're still in a good position. It's not fun work, but it's not terribly expensive. I think you're on the right track with cleaning out the old insulation and POR-15 on whatever is good to protect it further.

Can you weld, or will you be hiring that out? My welder had no problem fixing the frame, but on mine the welds had broken and there was no rust-through. Is your rust through the cross members, or the big C channel pieces that run from front to back?

[Julison]

Hi Steph,

Where the cross members are welded to the "C" main frame the cross members are rusted away..gone. The "C" mainframe is also badly rusted in this area - a couple of holes are rusted right through.

The cause, I'm 90% certain, is that the banana rap goes over the outside of the skin and the insde of the belly pan.... a pretty effective funnel.
30+ years of rain had the expected effect. I am lucky in that the mainframe is solid once the frame exits the underbelly and joins the bumper. So. I've got solid frame on both side of the week spot. I used to be an underwater welder ~ 20 yrs ago...but I don't have the equipment, so I'll likely have to bring someone in. First I'd like to look around at some welding or sheet metal shops and see if I can obtain an engineered cross brace to replace the rusted ones.

I'll borrow a camera from work tomorrow and document the before very clearly.

I'd like to get this repaired ASAP, and get the underbelly back on before the snow hits (about a month).

One other issue: I coulnd't get the propane disconnected under the AS, so to remove the underbelly I had to do some surgery..snip here and there. Has anyone tried to make there own underbelly...if so, from what material and how many pieces would you use. Mine was almost all one contiguous piece - very difficult to get in and out to be sure.

thanks for the support & advice

P>S: My wife has indicated that this deal was likely a very bad idea...just the motivation I needed.

[Stefrobrts]

Oh no! The naysayers only make the project more difficult It sounds like you are very much capable of handling this project. Look for Chris's caravel project here

http://www.airforums.com/forum...=chris+caravel

He did all new bellypan, if I recall. Do a search, as several others on the forum have as well. I'm glad I didn't have to touch my bellypan!

It sounds like you are on the right track. Now for the wife, tell her that price really was a steal. If you fix it up and have it back together in the spring, have it all working and the frame repaired with pictures to prove it, and advertised it on the net, I'll bet you could get close to $10k for it, or even more! People go nuts for these little trailers in the spring. This summer I saw a lady here in the NW pay $6000 for a Globetrotter that was so rotten it was unusable, but she loved the size and had high hopes for fixing it up. I sold a Bambi that was unrestored to a lady in MN who paid $9k and drove all the way out here to WA to take it home. I had offers from a guy in Japan! I occasionally get offers for my Caravel even though it's not for sale! In the spring, there are people who will go to any length for one of these little Airstreams.

So, you bought at a great price, at the best time of year, and you have time and it sounds like the talent to fix it up. By spring this should all be behind you and you'll be enjoying camping in it.

[Julison]

Hi,

So, I've got some pics of the frame degradation that I saw once I peeled of the underbelly.

A very depressing site to see - so much rust!

In short, the last 2 of the last 3feet of C channel mainframe is VERY rusty. the last two crossmembers have rusted completely off the ruight hand side main frame. Luckily, everything forward of that is fine (rusty but solid).
I'm trying to get a competent welder to assess the best repair route.

Julison

[Julison]

Hi,

Last night I removed the blown in foam insulation from the underside of the AS - from the axle back to the bumper.

Things of note:
Frame was MUCH better condition wherever the insulation was covering it.
Plywood looked almost brand new where the insulation was well adhered.

Does anyone know what the insulation is composed of (chemically). I wore a dust and organic respirator just to be safe.

This week I hope to get a custom weld shop nearby to assess the frame stabilization options. I can't find a local supplier (Ottawa , Canada) for POR-15...is there a similar product that might be more readily available North of the Border?

thanks in advance,

Julison