The 23FB forum

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

On my 23FB there are 2 USB ports by the far side of the bed and two beside the stereo above the dinette that will charge devices. There is also what appears to be a USB port on a cable, but that is only to allow you to play music from a USB drive and won't charge anything. I have added 2 usb ports, myself, below the bed on the near side.

On a related note, since my 23FB had no, as in zero, 12v outlets, I added a 12v outlet beside the 2 USB outlets I added to the near side of the bed, and I also added a 12v outlet below the dinette. You are correct that the inverter is terribly inefficient to power things that can be powered otherwise. My 12v outlets let me run stuff like my CPAP machine and 12v charger for my laptop without using the inverter. My inverter is WFCO, and the company's literature claims it is "up to 80% efficient." That means I lose 25% of the device's power need using it when it is not necessary. Also, if you are boondocking, the inverter draws battery power even when it is turned off. Again, you lose battery power. I have installed a 200 amp latching relay between the battery and the inverter so I can totally kill power to it when boondocking. It really helped.

I'd love to learn more about adding outlets and USB ports. I've been thinking about this, and I'm happy to hear that it has been done. The only USB outlets that I have seen so far aside from the nightstand are in the cabinet above the dinette. One is on the DVD player, and one is under a rubber cover that says "USB". It's only powered when the stereo is turned on, and it doesn't have enough power to charge my iPhone as far as I can tell. I'll look for others, but I'd love the option to add more. Quick question - if I'm not on shore power, and I'm not using the inverter, will the outlets still work to charge my phone if I plug into them? I would assume that this might work, using 12V, but I don't know. Thanks.

[vlaming]

Pix of drawer "shelf", top and bottom. Also one of stove cover fabbed from same flooring-we rarely cook inside, and prefer counter option. Saw this idea in another 23FB, made from strips of hardwood used as a cutting board.

[Dennis C]

That's exactly what I was thinking of making. Thanks for posting that.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I'd love to learn more about adding outlets and USB ports. I've been thinking about this, and I'm happy to hear that it has been done. The only USB outlets that I have seen so far aside from the nightstand are in the cabinet above the dinette. One is on the DVD player, and one is under a rubber cover that says "USB". It's only powered when the stereo is turned on, and it doesn't have enough power to charge my iPhone as far as I can tell. I'll look for others, but I'd love the option to add more. Quick question - if I'm not on shore power, and I'm not using the inverter, will the outlets still work to charge my phone if I plug into them? I would assume that this might work, using 12V, but I don't know. Thanks.

Yes, the USB ports will be hot whenever the USE/STORE switch is set to USE. However, the 120v outlets will not be. You didn't specify which "outlets" you are asking about. The USB ports beside my stereo are hot whether the stereo is on or not. I don't know why yours are different.

Adding either (or both) 12v and USB outlets is easy. Drill a hole in an appropriate place to install them, then tap an accessible 12v line to power them. Under the dinette, I tapped into the hot and ground wires powering the subwoofer. Under the bed, I was going to tap into the 12v light in the outside storage bin, but when I took the bed apart to do the installation, I found a 12v hot/ground pair dangling under the bedside table, unused. I have no idea why it was there, but I used it. My supposition is that wire pair were in an older model that had a 12v outlet, but when they deleted the 12v outlet, they didn't delete the wiring.

Here are a couple of pictures:

[Karen123]

I’d like to put an electrical outlet in the closet beside the fridge. Is there anything over there that I can tap into?

[Bobbo]

If your layout is like mine, the breaker box/fuse panel is below and to the left of that closet. It would be supremely easy to add either 120v, 12v, or 5v outlets there.

[switz]

Because of limited power in stock lead acid batteries, I suggest a on/off switch to the subwoofer. It is on all of the time otherwise and draws an amp or two.

[Dennis C]

Bobbo,

Your USB port installations look nice. I may do the same thing. Where did you buy the USB receptacles/covers?

Sorry I wasn’t clear on my question regarding the outlets being hot. On my 2020 International, there is a single 120V outlet under the dinette, not two like you have. There aren’t separate outlets for use with the inverter or shore power like earlier models had; there is a single outlet that will work with either shore power or the inverter. My question is: will that outlet provide 12V DC power if I’m running on battery power, without the inverter activated? In other words, can I use that outlet as a 12v power source to charge my iPhone without turning on the inverter? I don’t think I can, but I thought I’d ask. It might be nice to install one of the outlets that features built-in USB ports too - but I don’t think they would work without shore power or the inverter being active.

[Bobbo]

I ordered both sets of outlets off of Amazon. The one under the dinette is JUST 12v. The one under the bed has one 12v and two 5v outlets. You can put a 12v/5v like I have under my bed under the dinette if you want 5v there. You are correct that a 120v outlet w/5v included won't provide 5v without shore power or inverter.

If your trailer is like mine, the subwoofer is 2 feet away and you can pull 12v from there. (I wish mine had only one outlet that switched between shore power and inverter, but Airstream didn't wire it that way.)

As far as the subwoofer pulling power all the time, mine doesn't. Of course, mine is sitting on the top shelf of a closet in my S&B house. *G* We are not audiophiles so I removed the subwoofer to give me more storage space under the dinette seat.

[Dennis C]

I ordered two dual USB 5V outlets. I'll install one by the bed, and perhaps one under the dinette. Thanks for the pics of yours.

[Bobbo]

You are quite welcome.

[Dennis C]

I installed a double USB port today on the side of the bed. One port is 1A, one is 2.1A. Like Bobbo, I had unused dangling wires under the nightstand that I used for power. I’m glad I checked them with a multimeter, as the colors of the wires were the opposite of what I expected. It was a tight working space, but the installation went well.

[missaviatrix]

Has anybody modified their U-shaped dinette into 2 opposing bench seats. The seat along the outside wall is useless to sit in unless you are a 2 year old.

[GetawA-S]

With the wheel well, the persons against the wall would have no place to put their feet. It would not buy you anything.

[Fair_Enough]

Originally Posted by missaviatrix

Has anybody modified their U-shaped dinette into 2 opposing bench seats. The seat along the outside wall is useless to sit in unless you are a 2 year old.

Funny you should ask. The older 23FBs came with opposing bench seats and it works for many folks, but I personally disliked it. Looking at a floor plan, you would think the dinette sits 4, but unless the two sitting next to the window can get creative with where to put their feet, it sits 2 normal adults.

I have a complete set of 2013 opposing bench seats with Yellowstone fabric gathering dust in the garage... brackets, table and all.

I tried a long counter with office chairs (smallest I could find) facing out the window. Chairs easily turned to watch the bedroom placed television. Chairs were always in the way, but the counter was great. At least both can face the tv that you can't do with the dinette. Funny thing is we seldom watch tv, so chalk that up to "seemed like the thing to do at the time."

Last idea is install a 6' jackknife sofa backup to the wall covering the gianormous wheel-well nicely and with the addition of a narrow table top on a Lagun swivel system, I think I have found what works best for us. At least she is happy. Mounting the jackknife sofa did required custom steel tubing frame / mount. I enjoy making things and it worked pretty well. Both can watch the seldom watched tv.

What could make this set up better is a higher quality jackknife sofa with denser foam. Of course, they make foam every day and upholstery isn't cheap but probably well worth it to do it right.

When I click on the pictures they turn, maybe it will work for you.
FE

[GettinAway]

Our 2011 23FC FB had the two seats in the dinette. We thought they were fine,, for two people. I never really understood the U shaped dinette as I thought it lost table top area and gave you unusable seating. I can see where it would be nicer with the table totally removed though. Much more like a large couch. We went to 25FB and it has same dinette situation. Just two larger seats. The new 25FBs have a wrap around dinette. You have to remove half the table to use it. Be nice for company and socializing.

[missaviatrix]

Originally Posted by Fair_Enough

Funny you should ask. The older 23FBs came with opposing bench seats and it works for many folks, but I personally disliked it. Looking at a floor plan, you would think the dinette sits 4, but unless the two sitting next to the window can get creative with where to put their feet, it sits 2 normal adults.

I have a complete set of 2013 opposing bench seats with Yellowstone fabric gathering dust in the garage... brackets, table and all.

I tried a long counter with office chairs (smallest I could find) facing out the window. Chairs easily turned to watch the bedroom placed television. Chairs were always in the way, but the counter was great. At least both can face the tv that you can't do with the dinette. Funny thing is we seldom watch tv, so chalk that up to "seemed like the thing to do at the time."

Last idea is install a 6' jackknife sofa backup to the wall covering the gianormous wheel-well nicely and with the addition of a narrow table top on a Lagun swivel system, I think I have found what works best for us. At least she is happy. Mounting the jackknife sofa did required custom steel tubing frame / mount. I enjoy making things and it worked pretty well. Both can watch the seldom watched tv.

What could make this set up better is a higher quality jackknife sofa with denser foam. Of course, they make foam every day and upholstery isn't cheap but probably well worth it to do it right.

When I click on the pictures they turn, maybe it will work for you.
FE

Fair Enough,
Love this idea of the sofa (what is a jackknife sofa) and table. But looks like there would be too much construction for me to handle (old lady traveling the country by myself). I am not looking for more seating. My problem is that I work from my trailer; requires 2 laptops (1 large and 1 smaller) and would love to have dual monitors. I need the table space and a comfortable seat; none of which my 23' has. What's really aggravating, is that I cannot offer visitors a "comfortable" seat. So we are always relegated to the outside in the sweltering heat or freezing cold. I too thought about a "folding" office chair, but where do you put it when it's not in use? The 23' does not have that kind of storage space (the shower is handling a lot of that need). And the chair would always be in the way if you have to get up and move around. But I still think you have a great idea.

[missaviatrix]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

Our 2011 23FC FB had the two seats in the dinette. We thought they were fine,, for two people. I never really understood the U shaped dinette as I thought it lost table top area and gave you unusable seating. I can see where it would be nicer with the table totally removed though. Much more like a large couch. We went to 25FB and it has same dinette situation. Just two larger seats. The new 25FBs have a wrap around dinette. You have to remove half the table to use it. Be nice for company and socializing.

GettinAway,
You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of that set-up? I'm not looking for more seating (the Airstream dinettes are torture for sitting. I'm really looking for more work area. Please refer to my reply to "Fair Enough". I'm having trouble visualizing the 2 bench seats scheme; and so my request for some pictures. Thanks!

[PKI]

The value of the U-dinette is the ability to use it as a lounge, the ability to sit in the corner for a better view of the TV, and the availability of the space between the table and the window for additional storage. In our last year of use, we staged two plastic bins in that location. We started with one, but found two would fit if stored on their ends. Great kitchen gear storage (directly over the axles). Note as well that there is unused space under the corners of the dinette. Never got around to boxing and building an entry door, but it looked easy to do. Pat

[Fair_Enough]

Originally Posted by missaviatrix

Fair Enough,
Love this idea of the sofa (what is a jackknife sofa) and table. But looks like there would be too much construction for me to handle (old lady traveling the country by myself). I am not looking for more seating. My problem is that I work from my trailer; requires 2 laptops (1 large and 1 smaller) and would love to have dual monitors. I need the table space and a comfortable seat; none of which my 23' has. What's really aggravating, is that I cannot offer visitors a "comfortable" seat. So we are always relegated to the outside in the sweltering heat or freezing cold. I too thought about a "folding" office chair, but where do you put it when it's not in use? The 23' does not have that kind of storage space (the shower is handling a lot of that need). And the chair would always be in the way if you have to get up and move around. But I still think you have a great idea.

PM sent

The 6' long counter with small office chairs (on rollers) would work better for you than it did me. Your work area would be facing out of the windows; a huge plus. When traveling solo not much of an issue but with two of us the space between fridge and kitchen is too tight. And, yes the chairs got in the way. Remember that the 23 footers are 5-1/2" narrower than 25 footer and up Airstreams. Those inches missing in that area is part of the problem. Clearance on mine - fridge door to table - is around 3 inches, as I recall. Storing the office chairs while traveling was to lower them, and secure with bungies anchored to small D-rings. They didn't move.

My first attempt was to find a complete, used, U-shaped dinette. I couldn't find anything over a period several months.

Maybe not necessary in your case, since you need lots of table top - mine sure had enough of that... too much for us. RFP (his handle) on the forum, has a 23CB and does wonderful mods. He made his table top flip and the leg (support) pulls out on guides. If you haven't already, ou might want to check out the 23FB and 23D or CB subforums on here. But, many look at them both.

I personally wouldn't think getting a ikea counter top and have a decent craftsman install it wouldn't be that difficult.

If you can find one to test, see if you can find an older 23FB with opposing seats to see if it will really work.

Fair_Enough