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Old 09-16-2019, 09:09 PM   #3521
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
Wow Jim, you’ve really transformed that 23D into an off the grid, off the beaten path capable unit. Just curious, what did you all do about fresh water, grey and black water while out so long?

In terms of boondocking with the Airstream, we approach the system of living almost exactly the same as we do when car camping with a tent for weeks and months on end, or doing the same with our Taxa Cricket travel trailer.

We always know when and where to carry plenty of water and fuel, and know how to resupply in the future. We generally go almost empty while traveling until we know it is the last place to fill. We might not know where we are spending the night, but the water and fuel are covered when we are close to a destination. We use Scepter Nato fuel and water cans, carrying 5 gal. containers inside or on top of the Land Cruiser (water inside, fuel outside) and the 2.5 gal. water containers in the Airstream behind the curb side dinette on the floor. We know that we can resupply at National Monuments, National Forest campgrounds and in towns. In the 4-Corners there are many places to get water. As we need more, we drive to get it and often it is only a few miles out of our way. We also maintain a five gallon ice water Igloo type unit in the back of the Land Cruiser for cold potable water.

For years we have been working in a mode where showering occurs away from camp using a Nemo pressurized sun-shower. The advantage is that we can set this up on slickrock and cleanup outdoors using biodegradable soap. We also use the Nemo sun-shower to wash dishes, again away from camp on slickrock. We have always brushed our teeth away from camp in a "cat hole" and we generally do all cleanup chores in this way to keep a clean camp and not attract animals where we are living and sleeping. Etiquette requires that we do the same thing when backpacking and car camping.

We have a variety of cooking rigs, but for outdoor car camping we prefer our 22" Partner Steel stove with 1 gal. propane tank. We can place this anywhere and on warm evenings cooking outside keeps the heat out of the Airstream. We place the Partner Steel on a Werner 40" L, 12" W, 20.5" H foldable, Work Platform which is stored in the Thule box on the Land Cruiser roof. Lowes and Home Depot sell these Werner units.

When boondocking with the Airstream, the only water that was put down the grey water tank was shower water and we used the same biodegradable soap as we would when showering outdoors. Nothing else was put down the grey water tank, no food from washing dishes and no toothpaste. We left the grey water free to drain into an outside container and distributed the contents as we would if showering outdoors on slickrock. We never had odors of any kind coming from the grey water plumbing.

The black water tank situation was not a concern as we never used the toilet, ever. When we needed to go #1 it was always done outside away from camp. We rarely needed to go #2 at the Airstream camp because in short order we got our body timing changed in such a way that we were using facilities away from camp (driving past and stopping at a visitors center or an outhouse). At other times, nature would call while we were out hiking or backpacking during the day and we would take care of the situation as all trained backcountry people do. Once or twice in a month one of us would need to grab a shovel and TP and go for a walk well away from the Airstream camp. BTW, protocols require that excrement is buried, but toilet paper is bagged and hauled off as trash. This is the case for hiking and backpacking in most wilderness settings and is appropriate when car camping as well.

If we are camping in a National Forest or National Park campground then we use the bathroom facilities exclusively.

In our book, the 23D is a superb balance of a living environment and sleeping environment. We love the living space in the front of the trailer and after years of camping in tents, we have found that the width of the rear bed is just fine. When weather is bad we can comfortably kick back and cook indoors and enjoy being inside a pretty amazing space. It is also a very significant matter to be able to take navy showers in a controlled environment. We only run the hot water heater in preparation for showers, 12 minutes is plenty.

Why not go with a 19' single axle Airstream? The 19' had no windows that open up on the street side and not quite enough living space. In the 23D, the two street side windows opposite the entry door, located behind the sofa are huge in terms of air flow--a requirement for boondocking when using no air conditioning. We knew that we had to ventilate across the trailer. We also knew we wanted plenty of glass to feel connected to the outside. We knew that we wanted more seating then just the dinette. We wanted the bed arrangement to ready at all times. And, we wanted plenty of roof and interior battery space for our electrical solar setup. We spent a lot of time with a tape measure on a ladder and inside examining every Airstream trailer at a local dealership before making a choice.

Ronnie asked about the Airstream as compared to the Cricket. The Cricket required us to live indoors and out about 50/50. If there was pretty heavy weather coming in, the Cricket was not a very good place for refuge. Light weather/light winds were not a problem with the top up, but high winds would force us to drop the top. On the other hand if the weather was nice, the Cricket was an awesome place to live. It had much more sleeping room than the 23D (wider and longer), but the indoor living space and seating were minimal at best. The Cricket was also completely electric, 12V Engel fridge, 12V hot water heater and white and red LED lighting inside and out (NASA). Interestingly enough our Cricket had no 120V AC outlets anywhere in the trailer, it was all 12V. We added solar with Lifeline AGM batteries and it was an electrical powerhouse in the wilderness. The Cricket was much more carefully thought out with regards to use of living space and storage in an extremely efficient NASA sort of way, no surprise there. The outside shape which is somewhat lost in photos is extremely aerodynamic when being towed and is amazingly stable. The downsides were of omission such as no inside shower and cooking and living space inside was tough in bad weather. We learned a lot from using the Cricket for three years and applied much of what we learned in choosing and building out our Airstream.

We sold the Cricket three weeks ago and struggled mightily to let it go. The new buyers love it! The philosophy behind it, the ease of towing, the enjoyment of living out of it, the ease of getting into tough backcountry sites, and the build quality are all exceptional. Yes it looks weird, but "it is an acquired taste." We also loved having two access doors into the interior (one on the side, the other across the back). We will miss much of its charm, but our needs became clearer as a result of owning it and we moved on.

In comparison we look forward to and love living in the Airstream 23D and when really bad weather is moving in we love it even more. During the rest of time we can choose to live outside as much as we want, pretty sweet. We store complete car tent camping and backpacking rigs inside the Airstream so when we need to go further afield we can go at any time.

I hope this provides some insight about how we boondock and why for us the 23D is an awesome platform.

Jim k
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:09 AM   #3522
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Jim,
You’ve taken boondocking to an entirely different level. Way above where we will be going. Doing it right as far as I’m concerned. You’re an inspiration for me. Hope the “work” part of your trip was productive. I had heard that the fires from a few years ago near Mesa Verde uncovered a lot of new ruins. Are you involved in exploring them?
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:56 PM   #3523
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Jim,
You’ve taken boondocking to an entirely different level. Way above where we will be going. Doing it right as far as I’m concerned. You’re an inspiration for me. Hope the “work” part of your trip was productive. I had heard that the fires from a few years ago near Mesa Verde uncovered a lot of new ruins. Are you involved in exploring them?
Thanks. We do the best we can.

We are not working in Colorado or Mesa Verde, but many of our close friends have been federal archaeologists working in the backcountry of Mesa Verde. Due to the many fires that hit Mesa Verde a few years ago, amazing discoveries occurred over many years and the knowledge base is far more robust currently than at any time in the past. In retrospect the lightning set fires were actually quite a blessing for Mesa Verde.

Our federal and state permits cover southeast Utah, San Juan County, from Canyonlands in the north to the San Juan River in the south, and from the Colorado/Utah border along the east side to Lake Powell and the Colorado river to the west. We are doing archaeostronomy research at Basketmaker through Pueblo sites. We are examining solar, lunar and celestial direct alignments between sites and anomalous landscape features and when visiting each site we carefully examine and test everything.

Most of the work is centered on Cedar Mesa and Comb Ridge though we have completed a lot of survey work in Beef Basin, Ruin Park and that area as well as points east near Hovenweep National Monument. To date we have completed surveys at over 300 sites. The vast majority of sites are cliff dwellings, many of which are unkown and hidden high in cliff areas. And, a good portion of our sites have never been recorded. Our reports are housed in federal and state archaeological repositories. We are working on shaving off parts of this work for publication. We work with archaeologists, geomorphologists, enthnobotanists, rangers.

There is a lot more to this, but that is enough description. We were also vacationing some during the summer months which meant we traveled to to other places.

Jim k
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #3524
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The 23D thread

Well after a washboard road today I discovered something else that requires ‘hardening’ like the microwave did. Time for more t nuts!
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:49 AM   #3525
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Well after a washboard road today I discovered something else that requires ‘hardening’ like the microwave did. Time for more t nuts!
Attachment 352493
Thanks for the heads up. I will take a good look and make changes. That is not something that any of us want to have moving around. At least it is on the floor.

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Old 09-20-2019, 01:04 PM   #3526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim k View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I will take a good look and make changes. That is not something that any of us want to have moving around. At least it is on the floor.

Jim k
Turns out the four screws holding the converter into the cabinetry (the ones under the converter cover when you remove that) were not stripped out of the wood face frame, they were loose and backed out. I pulled the unit out to ensure wiring was intact (great reason to use strain reliefs) then tightened up the screws. This is one more place to check regularly, though I plan on adding t nuts on wood backers and screws with lock washers just to secure it soundly.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:31 PM   #3527
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Turns out the four screws holding the converter into the cabinetry (the ones under the converter cover when you remove that) were not stripped out of the wood face frame, they were loose and backed out. I pulled the unit out to ensure wiring was intact (great reason to use strain reliefs) then tightened up the screws. This is one more place to check regularly, though I plan on adding t nuts on wood backers and screws with lock washers just to secure it soundly.
Thanks. I will check it tomorrow and tighten as needed. However, I prefer your T-nut solution.

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Old 09-21-2019, 05:52 AM   #3528
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What page was the T-nut solution posted? My microwave on the FB is held in by 4 screws. One is stripped out already. With 250 pages, maybe someone should put together a directory. Maybe someone already has?
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Old 09-21-2019, 09:48 AM   #3529
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A year or so ago, I installed a very nice motion-sensing LED light under the lower vanity cabinet. We really liked it, BUT, the ON/OFF in the middle of the night was a nuisance, and it was battery powered, so there was that...

So, following on Ronnie's (GMFL) lead, I installed a hard wired LED strip under there. I used a 45-degree LED track with an opal diffuser (I didn't like all the individual LEDs reflecting in the countertop). We love the result. The under-counter light switches with the overhead vanity lights.

The LED track came from here: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=71702&c=2

My LED strip came from here (very high quality): https://www.cabelas.com/product/BASS...tabsCollection

All in all, this was an easy and very useful little project!
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:07 PM   #3530
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A year or so ago, I installed a very nice motion-sensing LED light under the lower vanity cabinet. We really liked it, BUT, the ON/OFF in the middle of the night was a nuisance, and it was battery powered, so there was that...

So, following on Ronnie's (GMFL) lead, I installed a hard wired LED strip under there. I used a 45-degree LED track with an opal diffuser (I didn't like all the individual LEDs reflecting in the countertop). We love the result. The under-counter light switches with the overhead vanity lights.

All in all, this was an easy and very useful little project!
That diffuser is the cat's meow. I had no idea where you would buy them. Saving the link, thanks
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:12 PM   #3531
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
What page was the T-nut solution posted? My microwave on the FB is held in by 4 screws. One is stripped out already. With 250 pages, maybe someone should put together a directory. Maybe someone already has?

See Post 2506. Basically glue small blocks of wood behind existing screw holes. Drill them through, then install a machine screw and put a T nut on the end. Tighten till T nut embeds in wood backer piece. Reinstall microwave and tighten to fully seat T Nuts. Or seat them before reinstalling micro. Use lock washers on screws. I painted the heads of my screws black beforehand. Also, while micro is out, redo sheet metal screws that secure it to the frame assembly. Those failed on mine too and my microwave had fallen ‘into’ the cabinetry. I used bigger screws and added a few as well. It’ll make sense when you remove the microwave and see how it’s all assembled.
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:13 PM   #3532
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That diffuser is the cat's meow. I had no idea where you would buy them. Saving the link, thanks
I found out too late, but Amazon sells the exact same product at a lower cost... check 'em out here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=led+chann...f=nb_sb_noss_1

I think I've done about all I can do to the vanity area. Here's the roll call: I made a new 'curved front' counter top, relocated he sink 2.5" farther to the front (out from under the mirrored-door cabinet), installed a new faucet which directs the water flow to the center of the sink, "hardened" the mounting of both overhead cabinets, added a air-strut to the lift up mirrored door, and now this LED thingy. Whew...
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Old 09-21-2019, 09:45 PM   #3533
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Always stepping up the game. Great Job Sensei !
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:44 PM   #3534
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So, following on Ronnie's (GMFL) lead, I installed a hard wired LED strip under there. I used a 45-degree LED track with an opal diffuser (I didn't like all the individual LEDs reflecting in the countertop). We love the result. The under-counter light switches with the overhead vanity lights.


All in all, this was an easy and very useful little project![/QUOTE]

I’m really liking the looks of this project!
How/where did you tie into power for the LED strip?
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:46 AM   #3535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriwether View Post
So, following on Ronnie's (GMFL) lead, I installed a hard wired LED strip under there. I used a 45-degree LED track with an opal diffuser (I didn't like all the individual LEDs reflecting in the countertop). We love the result. The under-counter light switches with the overhead vanity lights.


All in all, this was an easy and very useful little project!
I’m really liking the looks of this project!
How/where did you tie into power for the LED strip?[/QUOTE]

Tie into power at the main vanity light switch so that the LED strip will come on with the main light.
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:35 AM   #3536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
See Post 2506. Basically glue small blocks of wood behind existing screw holes. Drill them through, then install a machine screw and put a T nut on the end. Tighten till T nut embeds in wood backer piece. Reinstall microwave and tighten to fully seat T Nuts. Or seat them before reinstalling micro. Use lock washers on screws. I painted the heads of my screws black beforehand. Also, while micro is out, redo sheet metal screws that secure it to the frame assembly. Those failed on mine too and my microwave had fallen ‘into’ the cabinetry. I used bigger screws and added a few as well. It’ll make sense when you remove the microwave and see how it’s all assembled.


Thank you!
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:56 AM   #3537
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Thank you sir. On a trip now (with the AS) hopefully it will hold as is until we get home.
Thanks again
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:12 AM   #3538
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Hoping to put the 23D back together starting today.

After being away most of the summer with the Classic, I found the lithium battery was near zero voltage and the Magnum had a bad relay so the street side dinette seat had to be removed (along with the table) to access the Magnum. The 80+ pound Magnum was a challenge for me to get disconnected and out of it's space. I contacted AM Solar and acquired a battery recovery device that works on most batteries including lithium.

Of course this is the Phoenix area, so the over 100 degree temps outside are also inside in a confined space. Makes for a great sauna.....
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:26 AM   #3539
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Quote:
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< snip >
How/where did you tie into power for the LED strip?
Keith, Here's my experience with the wiring:

The first thing is to gain access to the 12 VDC wiring that's there in the three-switch panel: snap off the outer trim (fingernails will work just fine) and remove the four screws holding the switched in place.

Now you have both access to 12 VDC and you have a hole big enough to work through.

Then I pencil marked the wall at the very bottom of the lower cabinet. THat way, I could know just where my wire should exit and run to the LED fixture.

I removed the lower cabinet thereby gaining plenty of room to work.

Using a 1/2" spade bit, I drilled a hole just below my mark and and as far back as I thought practical. Now comes the fun part.

The hollow space behind the switches contains the plumbing vent for both the black and gray water tanks. That darned plastic vent pipe makes fishing the wire back to my 1/2" hole a bit fiddly.

Using a piece of uninsulated copper wire, I formed a loop of big "string," Scotch taping one side of the loop to the copper wire. When I put the copper wire (and it's attached string) into the hole, I fed the other part of the loop into the hole. If this has made sense, you can now visualize that I've got a piece of wire now inside the hollow space with part of it hanging down like a "lasso." THis gave me a big "target" to fish for.

I was then able to get a straightened wire coat hanger through the switch opening, past the vent pipe and back to where my "lasso" was hanging.

My coat hanger had a "L" bend about 3/8" long and I poked and twisted until I had captured the string. I was then able to pull the string out the switch hole. Success. I tied both of the ends of the string together so that neither end could slip back into the hollow.

The wire pulling was the easiest part of all.

So, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:59 AM   #3540
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Thank you sir. On a trip now (with the AS) hopefully it will hold as is until we get home.
Thanks again
You should be fine. Mine came apart due to some pretty gnarly boondocking roads. Look back a few posts, my converter came out of the wall the other day. I’m planning the same mod for that when I get home. For now, I was able to retighten the screws, they had completely backed out and the two on the left side were on the floor.
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