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Old 04-06-2014, 01:11 PM   #21
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[QUOTE=ggoat!!!;1438490]My GOD is that thing hideously FUGLY!


I get the whole spit on the slab sliders thing, but you've missed the point of this thread….I wasn't asking for a critical appraisal of this RV or any other slab side. I was asking if a carbon fibre trailer, built with the same iconic Airstream shape and costing the same would appeal to Airstreamers.

Should Airstream consider this material for future Airstreams if the cost of carbon fibre equals the cost of aluminum?

Again, thanks for keeping things civil

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Old 04-06-2014, 01:33 PM   #22
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I get the whole spit on the slab sliders thing, but you've missed the point of this thread….I wasn't asking for a critical appraisal of this RV or any other slab side.

No one is spitting on "slab-sliders" whatever the hell that is. If you're referring to slab-sided trailers, I have absolutely nothing against them. Some "slab sided" trailers in the 70's are gorgeous; one of the worst things about owning an Airstream is the stereotype that all Airstream owners are snob-nosed uppity people who look down on other types of trailers. Again, where ANYWHERE in my response did I mention ANYTHING about the shape of that trailer being slab-sided? It didn't even enter my MIND. What entered my mind was, "That's f'n hideous."


Just because I stated it was ugly made you assume I stated that because it wasn't in the shape of an Airstream. Absolutely incorrect. Jumping to unfounded conclusions only reinforces the Airstream owner stereotype. We don't all hate "regular" RVs.


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Should Airstream consider this material for future Airstreams if the cost of carbon fibre equals the cost of aluminum?

No.
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:02 PM   #23
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Hello all.

First a disclaimer. I'm not trying to set the house on fire but start a discussion.

Lets face it, aluminum is not getting cheaper, while exotic carbon fibre is. At what point should Airstream consider changing over to this extremely strong yet light and durable material?

CR-1 Carbon RV Unveiling Mar10 on Vimeo

The new trailer is made by Global Caravan Technologies but can cost up to 3/4 of a million dollars.

Would you consider buying a carbon fibre trailer or motorhome if the cost to buy were comparable?
Actually you asked two questions.


My answer to the first one is: Slightly after the devils domicile freezes over. If they do decide to discontinue Aluminum, them I hope they have enough respect for the Airstream heritage to call it something else.


Number 2. I seriously doubt it.


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Old 04-06-2014, 02:38 PM   #24
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Great Question

I think there is/will be a market for both the classical Airstream and new, sleek, Darth Vader looking RVs. I am thinking of the comparison in markets to those who want a classic Chris Craft as opposed to those wanting a Sea Ray. I bought a new AS for the LEDs and other modern amenities but styled in a classic look. The AS Flying Cloud gives me that. Yes, I also considered the black RV but the classic styling fit me better. Will carbon fiber, as a technology, make it into an AS? Maybe some of the parts but in the composition of the body, no. That will be for a new company that builds manufacturing processes and tools, from the ground up for this material.

I worked for Boeing who underwent a change in manufacturing processes dating back to "Greenfield" operations in the 80's. They worked with CF for engine nacelle and ducting before using the material in wings or body sections. Again, AS is steeped in tradition and has a strong following but don't expect them to have a ROI to move to a totally new manufacturing process. Cost would be prohibitive.
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:43 PM   #25
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I think there is/will be a market for both the classical Airstream and new, sleek, Darth Vader looking RVs.


.................................................. ........

That, I am sure is the case. I am sure as long as poeple will buy Aluminum Airstreams, they will make them.
If Thor wants to build Carbon Fiber trailers, they have very many non descript SOB brands under which to do it.


Depending on where on Vashon you live, I may have looked out my front window at your house when I was much younger.
I grew up in Normandy Park.



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Old 04-06-2014, 02:44 PM   #26
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There is no reason that should stop Airstream from using more composites in the construction of their trailers. The base flooring and interior walls comes to mind. To me what makes an Airstream is the shape and aluminum outside shells. I find it unconscionable that Airstream is still using plywood in the floor.
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:07 PM   #27
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I also worked at Boeing. I was a structural analyst, and a dyamicist there. I also am a pilot and build airplanes. But all that aside....

There is a HUGE misunderstanding about carbon fiber. Folks act like it is the "Miracle Material." The truth is, it is only the fibers. The matrix is still the same stuff you use with fiberglass.

See, any composite structure, say a canoe, that is made of "composite" material (and that itself is a misnomer...composite could mean wood and straw....) is comprised of two major parts: The filaments and the matrix. The matrix is the glue/resin/slime that holds it all together. It's typically an epoxy or vinyl resin. The filaments are the fibrous strands of glass or carbon.

Now, both fiber glass and carbon fiber are much stronger than steel. Anywhere from 150,000 psi to about 350,000 psi. Thing is, this is a camper trailer, not a replacement for the Saturn V rocket (which was primarily aluminum). Do you really need 350,000 psi fibers in the shell structure? If you used fiberglass fibers, it would still be at least three times stronger than Airstream's aluminum. But what about the matrix? Even if you have these super strong fibers, the matrix also comes into play. So if you use cheap resin, the carbon fiber means nothing.

At any rate, not trying to tear this new camper apart. To me, it looks pretty cool. All I'm saying is that, from a design standpoint, is it really necessary to use carbon fiber? I haven't seen a car built yet, other than maybe a Formula One racer, where carbon fiber was actually warranted. In every other instance (including Ferrari's road cars), it's basically marketing hype. There is not enough stress on the body panels of a Ferrari F-40 to require carbon fiber. Plain old E-glass would be just fine.

It sure sounds cool to use carbon fiber. But it's cost doesn't often justify it's being used.

Now all that being said, is a composite shell better than an aluminum one? Maybe. Look at all the problems of the 787.

Let's take it a step further: Look at the 777. It has a composite empennage (tail). What Boeing found was that this gains water weight, wasn't worth the extra manufacturing costs, it gains water weight because it's not impervious, and if the fuel truck runs into it in some second or third world airport and dings it up, they can't fix it. The 747-X was going to have an all aluminum tail, just because of this.

But, you can eliminate all rivets. And composites don't fatigue.

I looked at a Keystone Vantage a couple of years ago. It looked like a composite Airstream, based on the advertising literature. Thing looked like The Cat's Meow. And it could maybe have been. But their execution wasn't the greatest.

Yes, a composite travel trailer could be really cool. I've just not seen one executed at a reasonable price yet. Not to say they can't get this one's price down and sell them in droves.

See ya,
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:43 PM   #28
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It's all outdated.

I want a wood pulp extract trailer.

Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar


And while I'm at it I want some of these so I don't have to climb up on the roof to clean the solar panels.

http://www.gizmag.com/ecoppia-e4-ketura-sun/31428/

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Old 04-06-2014, 04:01 PM   #29
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The McLaren car is carbon fiber...also here are some inside shots of the CR-1. Looks very cool to me.
Won't corrode or dent.
https://www.autoblog.com/photos/glob...#photo-2519260
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by AWCHIEF View Post
There is no reason that should stop Airstream from using more composites in the construction of their trailers. The base flooring and interior walls comes to mind. To me what makes an Airstream is the shape and aluminum outside shells. I find it unconscionable that Airstream is still using plywood in the floor.
First of all "ggoat"….I'm sorry if I got your goat by assuming you hated slab sided trailers. Your post seemed to suggest a rabid hatred of anything square. I apologize.

AWCHIEF! You the man!!! This past year I had to replace the sub-floor behind the wheel wells and the first eight or so feet just behind the drivers step due to rot from leaks that were never sealed by PO's. I searched for a new better product to use and found Coosa board. 40% lighter than the equivalent plywood, can't rot, resistant to mildew and machines like a dream.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f311...me-106269.html

I swear to God that if I ever bought a new Airstream trailer, I would deliver the Coosa board to the factory to use myself.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:21 PM   #31
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It's all outdated.

I want a wood pulp extract trailer.

Wood pulp extract stronger than carbon fiber or Kevlar

Ken
Ken

I'm sure they were experimenting with frozen wood pulp aircraft carriers in WWII to aid getting planes across the Atlantic.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:26 PM   #32
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Messing with a Brand Icon = Corporate Suicide

Remember what happened to Coke?
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:33 PM   #33
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Remember what happened to Coke?

I remember. it was reduced to producing an illegal drug, that must be smuggled into its own home country.


Truly sad.


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Old 04-06-2014, 04:54 PM   #34
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If AS made a carbon fiber TT in the traditional shape and style of an AS trailer, I'd be at front of any line to check it out. No filiform, no other corrosion, no riveted skin joints to leak, and lighter to boot. Sweet! If I'm craving that aluminum look, I'll just have them paint and then clear-coat the shell...but please please no swoopy graphics!

Having seen pictures of critical failures of carbon bicycle frames, I agree that if I were to back a CF-skinned trailer into an immovable object (like a rock, post or tree branch), the skin would probably crunch, snap and break vs. denting, bending or buckling like aluminum.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:28 PM   #35
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I'm sure this appeals to a certain segment of people. Airstream is like owing an Italian or British car... You buy it due to the fact your brain is wired oddly and you like torture! Those who like to strap it on and go buy mainstream, no maintenance , disposable objects that blend into the oceans of likeness. Airstream and the like (land rover, Aston Martin, Bentley) are for folks who know a different way of living. It has nothing to do with affluence or status.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:48 PM   #36
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I'm sure this appeals to a certain segment of people. Airstream is like owing an Italian or British car... You buy it due to the fact your brain is wired oddly and you like torture! Those who like to strap it on and go buy mainstream, no maintenance , disposable objects that blend into the oceans of likeness. Airstream and the like (land rover, Aston Martin, Bentley) are for folks who know a different way of living. It has nothing to do with affluence or status.

I'm wondering how many brands of RV you have owned. I've had experience with 4 travel trailers and two pickup campers. Only one (my present) was an Airstream. They were all about equal in maintenance, and all three that were purchased new, needed all kinds of stupid factory mistakes fixed before they could be enjoyed. My only concern about the Airstream is the fragility of the skin. I am paranoid, that I am going to dent it and need to have a full panel replaced. I know that is what insurance is for, but even if someone else does the work it is still a big hassle.


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Old 04-06-2014, 06:42 PM   #37
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Isuzusweet, tried to PM you but i kept getting an error message but anyway....i hear ya!
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:53 PM   #38
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Ken,
Airstream is my only brand. As I see it Used units come with a certain patina from the po. Glad they dented it rather than me. My new ones are different... The first oops is a real downer which keeps me up at night. After that it is a funny story and a part of our history together.... Kind if a momentous of a trip.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:55 PM   #39
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Forgot to mention: my 1991 excels is a tank. Nothing seems to dent it.
My 2009 PanAmerica will dent while leaning on it while washing it. Different eras, different alloys. I'm really over a perfect skin and just enjoy them.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:29 AM   #40
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Will this be Airstreams next motorhome?


http://www.gizmag.com/ecco-camper-concept-nau/19021/

While you're at it, check out this trailer.


http://www.gizmag.com/alto-teardrop-...i-condo/31178/


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