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Old 05-04-2004, 06:20 AM   #341
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I feel Your pain flyfisher, I too had floor issues. I took unit to Jackson center(about 3 hour drive for me) it was inconvienient but they complely replaced the custom floor I had ordered that had shown up with cuts ect. Call the factory and talk to D. Schumann , he was helpful in going over the concerns I had and inspected the floor problems I had and on the trip to repair met with myself , my wife and Dicky Riegel AS president was in attendace. They are concerened with qualit and will step up to the plate and make it better.
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Old 05-04-2004, 06:49 AM   #342
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I'd never have a complaint if someone put on a little too much caulking, or if it didn't look neatly applied.

Here's a sample of how the cuulking around my bathroom skylight looks. This is about an 8" section; it looks like this the entire way around. (I'll get better pictures later today.) Everything you see in this picture was included with the final delivered price, and it is all included as an extra cost option direct from the factory. Tell me what you think.









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Old 05-04-2004, 07:32 AM   #343
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Actually, outside of the muck that is stuck to the caulk, the job you posted above actually looks pretty good. If I had my digital camera (I lent it out), you'd see in some areas of my unit, it looks as if the caulk came out of the tube and dried fully as a round bead of caulk around some areas. Seriously.
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:50 AM   #344
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You can compare what you found to our Classic's roof. Look for my photo album (gklott) and go to the picture "Roof Measurements" on the second page.

It appears to be pretty standard to have the caulking the way you found.

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Old 05-04-2004, 08:59 AM   #345
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Having worked in the ag and construction industries, I'm not adverse to a little dirt, but we didn't buy these to slop the pigs, did we?

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Old 05-04-2004, 09:05 AM   #346
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The caulk looks fairly good compared to many. It looks like some dirt or debris blew or fell onto the caulk before it had dried. Hmmm...if this bothers you, to replace they will have to pull things apart scrape off and recaulk. Personally I would rather that they not break that original seal. Sometimes to fix the cosmetic you will end up causing future leak problems.

Caulking on roof items is never something done with an eye for neatness. Defendable? No, but from an industry standard the guys who do this slop it on and dribbles and other excesses seem to be the norm.

I wonder if the lifting device that lifts the body onto the frame had some crud on it?

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Old 05-04-2004, 09:12 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dee
It's enough to break your heart! How can they deliver such a shoddy product? Where was the QC department? Having an early happy hour? Simply inexcusable!

The marks on the bathroom floor look like cigarette burns- WOW! The bath fan is so bad- how could anybody leave it like that? And have that mag rack installed for sure!
They got a REAL NEED to make it right!
I am also shocked at the pictures. This is awful...plain and simple. Someone in QC needs a repremand or the boot. These pictures need to go to somebody in mgmt. at A/S.

I can't tell you how much this bothers me...and its not even mine!

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Old 05-04-2004, 09:36 AM   #348
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Jack -

Your sympathy, and that of others eases my pain, somewhat. I guess that's why I made these posts here, at least in part, and perhaps to help the next fellow coming along that purchases an Airstream, much as you fellows have helped me, not only on this thread, but many of the other threads here as well.

I understand what you're saying about removing the caulking. The other vents, etc. on the roof don't look half bad - I haven't had a good test to see how they actually seal though - but this particular one really looks awful in my opinion.

I haven't even bothered telling you guys about things in my unit that just plain look bad - like the hole inside the wardrobe that must have been drilled in the wrong place and the wood filller that was smeared over it, and left to dry in about a 1" diameter smear. That type of thing looks like crap too - and in my opinion reflects the ATTITUDE of workers in that facility - but probably that specific hole by itself doesn't effect the quality of the trailer.

I doubt that you could get the cauking that scuzzy without someone actually working hard to get it that crappy -- then again, considering what I saw in Jackson Center on the 2 factory tours I went on (granted, they were in 2002 and 2003), that type of filth should not have surprised me. (I spent many years in factories all over the world that manufacture farm, construction, trucks and automobiles, and related equipment, and none of them were ever as unkempt as the Airstream plant the 2 times I was there. - And before someone tells me that's how RV plants look, I'll offer to take them through a travel trailer manufacturing facility close to my home for comparison - a manufacturer that is consistently rated among the tops in quality.)

John
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:29 PM   #349
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The accountability factor for the AS production line/factory is coming through clearly in these posts. Considering that many of our Forum members are young and may well join the ranks of members who eventually go "new" if the product retains/regains its quality and mistique, it would seem that the AS plant would follow this Forum, recognize a ready market within our several thousand potential buyers, and want to ensure prospective sales. Standards at the factory should be set from the top with a positive, consistent, and enforced message to its working community. If it's a limited problem, AS will be able to identify the laxness and take care of it promptly. If it is a pervasive problem, more needs to be done. Sure, the bottom dollar line is essential to a business, but if it is not matched with consistently high standards of production, that bottom line will ooze away like water in a seive. If a product like Flyfishers' can leave the factory, it seems that improvements need to be made in the environment and the work culture of the AS factory. High work morale CAN happen. Pride and enthusiasm CAN permeate a work place. They translate into quality product. Quality control will not be an issue if everything else is in place. The '04 line seems to have been given both high and low reports. Many eyes will be on the soon-to-be released '05 line.
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:45 PM   #350
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Before we settled on our trailer out of dealer stock, we looked at several models there. I was kind of surprised at how dirty they all were. Our sales person said that's the way they come from the factory and the dealers don't bother cleaning them until they are sold or they are going into the showroom.

Ours had a lot of small metal filings and sawdust even after the dealer prepped and 'cleaned' it.

I've thoroughly cleaned it twice and used the shop-vac everywhere I could get it to go and will still find some metal. My guess is that it must be wedged between the cabinets and the walls and when the trailer is moved, it falls out.

That's been my only real disappointment with Airstream so far. I think it's really stupid on the factory's part to NOT implement some cleaning and Q/C during manufacture since I'm sure that it costs them more to do something like a floor and/or panel replacement a second time than it would to not screw it up in the first place.

And if they do have a cleaning and Q/C process .. it needs to be revised.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:16 PM   #351
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These problems seem roughly consistent with the 2003 quality problem thread. There really is no reason to believe that a new model year will suddenly change the quality of a largely unchanged product. Although we might blame the dealer or QC, who should have caught and corrected these, the problems were caused by careless assembly. It is sad that a high priced American icon cannot be assembled with craftsmenship and pride.
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:33 PM   #352
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i watched "made in america" tonite and the plant looked messy they said they had plant tours everyday? i would be ashamed for "america" too see the way that plant looked. maybe the airstream mangement could tour "fleetwood " or some other non-"thor" company
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Old 05-04-2004, 10:25 PM   #353
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I was at the factory in December. For a construction zone, I felt it was plenty darn clean.

I will say this, that I agree that things that we see happening, shouldn't be. I will also say, unlike some folks, we owned both a 2003 and now a 2004. The 2004 has the same great quality with the outer shell that our 2003 had. The inside is where we had issues (and with some of the 3rd party hardware) on the 2003. The 2004 so far has far exceeded our 2003 and we are pleased with the 2004. True there have been a few small issues that we've had, but at each and every turn, Jackson Center has taken very good care of us. For example, one of the LEDs was burned out on the tank sensor display/control unit. The tank levels were also off. Customer service at Airstream contacted me back, contacted the manufac of the unit and I had a new unit in my hands in less than 3 business days. So far, it has fixed my dead LED, but the tanks still register funky levels even when totally empty. I know it will eventually work out.

To me, it's a process. Sure I'd like not to have to deal with it, and maybe I should and maybe I shouldn't be doing these things to get my trailer up to snuff. I love these RVs. As long as the factory provides the service that we've had, I'm happy to work with them to resolve the issues. Sure they could improve and I think the directions indicate that they are, but it's a long road, and it's a hand build product. It's hard to say why some units are near flawless while others made in the same model year, within 4 months of each other can vary so much.

I'll finish by saying this. If I thought for a moment that our 2004 would be like our 2003, I wouldn't have put even more money into a 2004. After starting this thread, it became more and more clear to me that improvements have been made and that there are exceptions. Those exceptions being fewer and fewer. I know that doesn't help the folks like John right now, but I would be very shocked if Airstream did not step up to the plate here and deal with the problems he's encountered. I've seen them first hand for our needs and have read countless other stories where they have even gone so far as to pick up the coach, bring it back to Jackson Center, gut the insides, do it all over inside, flooring and all, and return it to the customer. Not sure about you, but I can't think of many RV manufacs that do that and our family has owned at least two other brands...one had serious outer skin issues too.

As the thread contiunes, I would be very interested in hearing how things progress from where we are right now with John's current issues.
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Old 05-04-2004, 11:27 PM   #354
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Quote:
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they have even gone so far as to pick up the coach, bring it back to Jackson Center, gut the insides, do it all over inside, flooring and all, and return it to the customer.
If they do this for John, then I would be impressed. I, too, am eagerly waiting to hear how it goes for him in his fixes. Hopefully A/S steps up to the plate.
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Old 05-05-2004, 03:05 AM   #355
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I exchanged emails with Dave Schumann yestereday and plan to talk with him via phone this morning. He's the Warranty Dir. at Airstream.

My dealer, Jim Turner, discussed with me the possibility that Airstream might do something in the way of pick up or delivery, so we'll see.

It's more than 600 miles (perhaps almost 700) from my home to Jackson Center, OH. Airstream's Warranty Policy (which we all should have received with our new units) requires only that the unit be returned to an authorized dealer for repair, and not necessarily the selling dealer or the closest dealer to the Airstream plant. Since the closest dealer to me is about 90 miles distant, and maybe even farther distance from the plant than I am, I could return it there if I wish. My read of the Warranty Policy is there is no requirement for me to incur the expense of driving all the way to the plant.

Why, I might even want to come to San Jose to see what a fine example of good quality looks like, as a benchmark for comparison, and drop off my unit at a dealer somewhere closeby there. (wink, wink!)

John
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:56 AM   #356
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Thanks for the update John, I know I am very eager to hear what the game plan is for the issues, particularly the floor and putty fill. My gut tells me that either they will pickup the coach or you can take it there if you want and either way it gets there, perhaps they will re-deliver? I think you'll be happy with the game plan, but do post either way.

One way or another, I'd think the folks in Jackson Center are gonna want to see this one first hand and deal with how it got out as some of the issues clearly were not in-transit or dealer caused. Having been to the factory, they have tons of closets that the carpenter group makes and it might just be that they swap that part out at the time the floor is done. Also, if they agree that the floor will be replaced as it is one piece and hard to fix, that might also be the time to see if you really want any carpeting. If so, great, but if not, I know some folks don't like carpeting, so you might also have a window to make a request as well. Just a thought.

I will say this, and this is just me. If the inside is going to be taken out for the floor to be replaced, it is true that an authorized sales/service center could do it. Speaking strictly for me, mostly due to the fact that Jackson Center is only about 300 miles from my door, if my coach had the issues, I'd go straight to the source, where all the engineers, production folks, managers, etc. I know for some that isn't realisitc, but for me and possibly you, it might be.

Eric
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Old 05-05-2004, 10:26 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher
Why, I might even want to come to San Jose to see what a fine example of good quality looks like, as a benchmark for comparison, and drop off my unit at a dealer somewhere closeby there. (wink, wink!)
Well one thing your experience has done for me is make me thank my lucky stars. I think there was a guardian angel following my unit through the line and his name was Mitch. AND I am going to knock on wood now....

You and Twink are lucky to be so close to Jackson Center. It's about..say...TWO THOUSAND miles for me. But I feel fortunate that my dealer, Tosacano RV, has techs that have been working on A/Ss for twenty plus years or more. I had some MAJOR tree damage on my old Safari and they replaced three panels and half of another. Looked like new when I picked it up. Could not believe it. I was EXTREMELY impressed! So I feel real lucky after hearing about some of these other dealers across the country, including yours John. My unit was preped in 24 hr.s and it was immaculate! Toscano really enjoys the delivery process as when is a customer happier?

I've seen many good things posted about Dave Schuman. Let's see how he does here. I am hoping you will be posting happy posts soon!
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:23 PM   #358
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I went out in my driveway early this morning to give my trailer a quick wash, and then walbernize it with Super Seal. While I was standing on the ladder washing the roof, I notcied some damage to the air conditioner fins (at least that's what I always thought they were called - correct me if my terminology is wrong) and where it looks like something ran into the a/c shroud. Here's a couple pictues:









When I was out there, I noticed the Lilacs were in full bloom, and their aroma mixed with those of the spruce trees at the end of our driveway. (A-h-h-h-h-h! When the sun came up, and the birds, nesting now, started chirping, there's no better place to spend a Spring day!

John

Ps. I don't really have time to keep adding more issues to these -- you guys must have a bellyfull now anyway. However, I'm pretty confident that all these things will get resolved one way or the other in due course. I will, however, keep everyone informed as they do get fixed!
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Old 05-05-2004, 01:09 PM   #359
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Air conditioner fins

I had the shroud off when I was troubleshooting the climate control center -- some of the fins were bent a bit, but yours looks like it has undergone an impact event, for sure...

I have seen them damaged like this without a leak -- but this does not help your mood or attitude. It is hard to deal with this stuff, emotionally and otherwise.

I guess what I am saying is that I really do understand your attempt to enjoy the morning and the sun and smells -- it is not an act of giving up -- more like faith that AS will make things right for you -- I live two miles from RoadKingMoe, and when he looked our trailer over, he shook his head and said he still had some warrenty issues to take care of this year...too. It is an attitude of faith that things will be put right...

I still have a brake issue that I am about 60% sure it is the controller. As it now only happens when I am backing up, I am going to try to figure out what exactly is happening while using it.

My shower door actually looks pretty good -- I will leak test it this weekend while I am camping -- and will also stand-alone a day do make sure all the boondocking features all operate under load. Cowan Lake State park, site 123, if anyone wants to visit!!!

My gray/black tank reads 1/8 when empty. I have not filled the water tank to see if that is off...and I am not sure if we are going to accept the re-upholster job on the dinnette, as they have the stripes lined up now, but they are still not straight...

We are probably going to use it this season, and take it back to JC in November for any remaining issues, if we do not encounter any more showstoppers...

Hang in there, they will fix it up...they know they will loose their #1 marketing tool -- us, if they do not...

-Rob
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Old 05-05-2004, 01:55 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher
I don't really have time to keep adding more issues to these -- you guys must have a bellyfull now anyway. However, I'm pretty confident that all these things will get resolved one way or the other in due course. I will, however, keep everyone informed as they do get fixed!
Please stop, you are killng me. Where does it end? But you got the right attitude and before long, hopefully, you will be all smiles. Just keep smelling those flowers.
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