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Old 05-03-2004, 09:20 AM   #321
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Jack and Rob -

Thanks for your comments. I think my trailer was built about April 21, and left the factory about the 23rd. Jim Turner told me about the month-end factory push for sales, but I don't know if that contributed to someone being in a hurry or not. I know from the dealership side, this is a busy time of year when everybody wants things done right now, but that's just my observation and not intended to point fingers one way or the other.

Oh, and one other item, somebody apparanently mistakenly drilled a hole inside the wardrobe, then covered this up very sloppily with wood filler, or something similar. At least its not readily visable on the outside, but it does make me wonder what the rest of the manufacturing is really like beneath the surface???

John
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:30 AM   #322
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John,

To put your mind at ease, I will say that all RVs, even my current one have the putty somewhere (and issues here and there--heck they are moving houses). I know how you feel, I too was there in 2003, but I will say this, for all the issues I had in 2003, the shell, structure, frame, and other parts are very well made. This continues in our 2004. I think most (not all) will agree that for the most part, some of the internals have a bit to be desired, but that does not and should not mean that the rest of the trailer is not well built. I was impressed that our 2004 was light years ahead of our 2003. Is my 2004 flawless...surely not!

But as I said, I can relate to how you feel at this point. Know that once you get the bulk of the issues resolved, I think you'll find that overall it is a great coach. If you need any reminders, take a peek at a few new SOBs.

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Old 05-03-2004, 09:31 AM   #323
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I will contact the factory service reps at some point. Among my concerns is the long distance to the factory from here, or from most any place for that matter, except those few that live in Dayton, OH... but then, who'd choose to live in Dayton?

My wife and I are planning a cross country trip starting in June, and ending whenever, so we were thinking of stopping at Airstream on our way home at the end of the summer sometime.

I was just reading my owners Manual reference to "You'll be given a list of the factory service centers?" What and where are these?

John
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:53 AM   #324
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We had many of the same problems (See previous post).

We are waiting to replace the floor, but not sure if we want to pull out all the furnishings. Looking for alternatives, and we plan to replace the carpet when we do the vinyl floor replacement.

Our roof caulking is the same as yours

We have had the bathroom roof vent replaced once already. Seems ok now.

We thought ours was an early 04 QC issue. But the problems continue in later Classics. Shucks.

We've been through one 21-item warranty fix period at North Dallas RV. We're building a list for the next visit now.

Good information. Thanks.
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:05 AM   #325
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Eric -

My wife says that I'm being too critical, and not giving enough credit to the good things that we like about the trailer. Kind of what you're saying.

So, here goes my thoughts on that side of the coin:

I'd go back to the dealer to buy another unit if that tells you anything. Maybe give them a little friendly kick in the pants before arriving to pick up another new unit from them, but I've been to some of the larger, more well know Airstream dealers that many of you are dealing with, and I'd pick Turner Airstream over them in a heartbeat!

I spent several months a few years back reviewing customer Lemon Law issues on Ferrairi cars, and I remember a comment I heard about them at the time. They thought that many of their customers bought a Ferrari based on Ferrari's mystique, not just the quality. Although quality is certainly important, there's just something similar about Airstream's mystique that I love as well.

My wife loves the now-famous monkey design on the interior upholstery. We had to get matching sheets and pillow cases, new dishes with a palm tree design (where else would monkies feel comfortable), etc.

So far, I don't have anything on the outside (except the roof caulking) that I don't like.

The Moen One Touch faucet is space age surreal for this old timer who can almost remember getting water out of a well and boiling it before it was safe to drink. Does that only come with the Limited's? If others of you don't have this as an option on you units you're missing something special in my opinion.

I love the dimmer for the light fixture over the dinette - once things settle down, and I learn how to operate that nice Sony CD player, we may be able to enjoy more romantic dinners over soft music and dimmed lights.

The bed mattresses feel great to me, and I'm even more happy that we got the twin bed option, now that I see all the roominess in the bedroom, and I didn't know we'd get Corian on the night stand -- that's a nice touch.

My electronic system monitoring thingy seems to be working fine, for the moment, and if it keeps working that way, I'll continue to be impressed. I never had Fantastic fans before, and I love them so far after 2 hot days and nights of use!

I could go on, but you should get the point --- the things I like still far outweigh my present discontent.

Anyway, if old men weren't grumpy, what would this world come to anyway!

John
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:25 AM   #326
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Agree with you on needing to include the positives with the other details.

Mary and I have spent >12 weeks and in our 30' Classic since we received it last July. We've pulled it > 25000 in the same time with minimum issues. We're working through the warranty period like we would with any new purchase of this size and cost.

We like our AS more and more with each trip. Our recent 5 weeks on the road in Key West, Myrtle beach, and San Diego went extremely well.

Need to remember to keep the bolts tightened on the Hensley and wheel lugs!

It fits, that's one way to put it.

73/gus
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:26 AM   #327
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Flyfisher,

It's a real bummer to hear of another bad experience of a forum member buying new. I am sorry for you. I could not even imagine how I would feel if that happened to me. I remember another member who had so many basic quality problems earlier this year, like missing name badges. Yikes!

But my unit was delivered in perfect shape and I continue to search for a quality problem. So far I have one problem and it is a design problem, not a quality problem. This is after 9 weeks of use. I have not any problems with the shower or drawers or anything.

What explains the wildly different quality in the '04s? I just don't understand.

I agree that the dealer has not performed well here. The fact that it was dirty on delivery is simply unexcusable anyway you look at it. Greese spots on carpet- what are they thinking?

And, believe me, this forum is monitored by Jackson Center, so they are listening to this conversation. I would agree that the customer service I have received has been fantastic. I hope they can make it right for you and your summer is fantastic.
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:41 AM   #328
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I hear ya John. Even when we had the Bambi with the issues, it was so interwoven into our lives that even with it's quirks and issues, we still loved that little coach.

My buddy at work was looking at my 1980 Olds Delta 88 that I drive in the winter to save miles for the Impala's long trips we plan (can't afford a new tow vehicle just yet). He took a look at it (and in 24 years, it's still a strong running car, but has some comsmetic and age related issues) and he said "You gotta love a car with personality!"

Glad to see you're keeping it in perspective. I know it isn't easy when you put down a bunch of cash on a new unit and find these things. Granted I spent far less on a Bambi, but I surely know the feeling well.

Eric
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:13 PM   #329
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Qc

The little things wrong with the Bambi to date have actually been negligiable and had thought I would just deal. After all it is a house, there will always be something. Plus, it is so sweet.

Well this weekend, second trip, I noticed water standing the shower drain after my shower. It was not in the shower, but I could see it in the drain. Went back 15-20 minutes later to wipe out the shower stall because I was getting ready to leave (I put the TV in the shower floor while traveling). Water was still in the drain. Hum. When I went to raise the satbilizer jack, I noticed a slow leak above the dump values on the seam of the underbelly. Based on the dampness of the ground, it was a fresh leak. Makes me think the shower plumbing is not working correctly. Worried that the sub-floor is getting wet. So those small porblems I was ready to ignore will be taken care of after all because I am definately headed in for service.

But, perfect is only in heaven and my Bambi is still sweet. Hopefully, it will be a minor problem. If not, I guess I'll have to go on out to the factory....
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Old 05-03-2004, 02:42 PM   #330
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I've never posted a picture here before, so this is an experiment.

If this works, here's a picture of my cabinets above the kitchen sink, looking up from beneath them. This picture shows how they don't close evenly. There are several cabinets and doors similar to this.



John
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Old 05-03-2004, 03:28 PM   #331
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...I have to agree that the positives outweigh the negatives, because the negatives are not really design issues -- they are implementation issues...

When you look at the class of problems our units have, you can begin to wonder if there is method to the madness.

What I mean is that the factory and the dealer can certain be proactive and catch a lot of these issues -- in fact, we caught the biggest part of our issues while our Safari was sitting at the end of the production line with just a casual inspection while talking to two AS mucky-mucks. It is almost like they are gaming the system, and the psychology of a buyer...they wrote our issues down, and said they would be 'taken care of.'

If they inspect and catch almost all the fit and finish issues, they incur those cost right off the bottom line. However, if the customer only catches 70% of the issues that exist, then they save money, if they maintain a level of quality such that the overall consumer perception of the brand remains high.

I know that is can cost them more to fix things after delivery versus before, but there are many very minor issues I have found that I would never bother them with -- could be that over time over many trailers that the current QC level might generate more profit than delivering more perfect trailers...

...some new owners would not have been bothered by the dinnette cushions -- AS have already paid for the labor and materials for the original set -- might as well see if the buyer complains or not...a roll f the dice, so to speak, from their standpoint...

-Rob
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Old 05-03-2004, 03:37 PM   #332
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Qc

Still, I can only imagine what issues SOB owners face.......
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Old 05-03-2004, 04:08 PM   #333
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I don't want to bore all you nice people with my problems, but since there was a request for pictures, here's a few pictures of some of the areas in my new unit that concern me:

These are the cuts in the vinyl in the bathroom floor vinyl:





Here's a gouged out area in the wallpaper about 2" long in the bathroom right next to the bedroom door. I just noticed this. I don't know why we didn't see it earlier because it's VERY obvoius.




Here's another floor "wound" in the vinyl. This one's right below the wardrobe. The size of this puncture could be fatal if you let it get closer to your heart!




Next, are two pictures of the bathroom ceiling fan. If I was a betting person, I'd bet they installed one of the used fans that another customer returned for warranty repairs in my new unit. NO!! Tell me they wouldn't do that!! Well, then someone should explain why this looks the way it does??





I thought I was going to get a magazine rack located right here, just like the 2004 literature shows. Did they stop putting them in right after I placed my order in good faith? Other people seem to have gotten them in their 2004's. The dealer said he didn't know.




And on a more positive note, here she sits in my driveway with my Ford F250 on this dreary, rainy Spring day in southeast PA. Ain't she beautiful and sexy?



John
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Old 05-03-2004, 05:58 PM   #334
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Bummer!

It's enough to break your heart! How can they deliver such a shoddy product? Where was the QC department? Having an early happy hour? Simply inexcusable!

The marks on the bathroom floor look like cigarette burns- WOW! The bath fan is so bad- how could anybody leave it like that? And have that mag rack installed for sure!

But that last pic is sooo sweet. Looks awesome on the outside and unique with the red stripe.

Let's hope they (dealer and factory) take good care of you and these issues. They got a REAL NEED to make it right!
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Old 05-03-2004, 06:54 PM   #335
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Wow John...is all I can say to some of the pics.

Some of what you posted there is no excuse that could answer some of the issues you've brought here.

I cannot believe that they let that leave in that condition. I'd like to think some of it happened after it left....but I don't believe that for a second.

I think the QC folks that let this one through need to be taken out back. If I had seen that, I would have refused to take delivery and let the dealer deal with it. Some of the things I see are just a disgrace plain and simple.
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Old 05-03-2004, 07:17 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hohne
...some new owners would not have been bothered by the dinnette cushions -- AS have already paid for the labor and materials for the original set -- might as well see if the buyer complains or not...a roll f the dice, so to speak, from their standpoint...-Rob
This sounds like a SOB company philosophy- not our beloved A/S. If it is their thinking "to roll the dice" and hope a new customer won't complain about shoddy quality then...

I just can't believe this is the case. But I can't explain Flyfisher's quality problems. How could this happen?
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Old 05-03-2004, 07:47 PM   #337
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You can see similar quality problem photos with our rig in posts 76 and 78 in this thread.
I thought the cuts in the vinyl were from the dealer removing the plastic. Might be something else.
73/gus
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:07 PM   #338
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Gus -

I went back to look at you pictures and posts, then I hurried out to my trailer to see if I also had some of your problems that I just hadn't yet found.

We haven't yet opened most of our windows because of all the rain, so I don't know if they all will work properly, and since we havn't stayed in it much I can't ay how things will react to a few days' use. Fortunately, our refrigerator doesn't appear have the problems yours did.

One thing that bothers me more than these quality issues though is that Airstream would let this type of crap out the door, and the dealer wouldn't find and tell us about it before our arrival (they know much better than we do how to spot the obvious defects), but then they expect us to take our units back to them at our expense to correct their screw-ups.

Something just ain't right with that equation. I can understand things going wrong after leaving the manufacturer, but businesses that operate with a caveat emptor attitute don't cut it in my book.

John
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Old 05-03-2004, 09:37 PM   #339
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Can post other issue photos to a site if you desire.

I too wish Airstream QC was better. Luckily, we've received excellent warranty service from North Dallas RV.

We gathered up all our warranty items into a long letter. Dave Shumann set things up for us. He told us to get the trailer floor replaced, and send him the bill. Dave has been an excellent POC on taking care of things.

We also discovered a couple of electrical outlets that were deleted but remain in the drawings. Search for my missing electrical outlets for that thread.

Once we work out the issues, we will enjoy the trailer for a long, long time. It's everything Mary and I wanted.

Concerning QC, I received a recall notice today on our 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD pickup. So what can you do?

73/gus
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Old 05-04-2004, 12:20 AM   #340
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I guess it is time for me to weigh in here with my report on our '04 Classic 34 ... we have been on the road for a little over a month now ... and we have become quite familiar with our trailer.

Overall ... it is in great shape. We have had a few minor issues that have ben easily handled without going to the dealer.

Check those compression fitings on the pipes under the galley and bath sink! We had one work loose under the galley ... luckily, it leaked into a plastic container. I was lucky to find it before it spilled over. I figure it just worked loose from vibration.

We have the same dripping water problem with the shower door ... also I need to caulk between the shower bottom edge and the floor ... the gap has widened a bit. Again, probably just a moving and bending and vibration thing ... but I do have a bit of a gap there now.

Our biggest problem surfaced about a week ago ... and became critical today. The fan vent in the bath would partially open after some towing .. I would close it ... but then it would open again. Now, after opening it ... it will not close. Time to buy a ladder.

I also noticed the huge amounts of caulking during the Escapade Rally when I climbed up on the roof with a fellow who was installing a couple of Xreme Vents. He just laughed and shrugged it off ... said that all RVs have the caulking globbed on the roof.

Other than that ... the Classic is performing rather well ... and we're having a hell of a good time.
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