GVWR Early Production 2005 30' Classic Ltd w/SO

[TomR]

Hi All...I have been "looking at" a 2005 30' Classic Limited w/SO and have a concern regarding GVWR. It is an early 2005 and came with the 9100# GVWR...someone mentioned they chaged to new axles with a higher GVWR and disc brakes LATER in the 2005 model year.

The current Classic Ltd 30' w/SO has a GVWR of 10,300# and a UBW of just under 8,000#. Assuming the UBW of the 2005 before options was nearly the same as the 2007...ie; 8,000#...that leaves a NCC of about 1,100#. In addition the 2005 has nearly all options...including dual air conditioners, AV Entertainment package, spare tire option, 10cf refrigerator, faux leather furniture...all of which would reduce the NCC...before fluids, people and "stuff". It appears to me that you likely would be over the GVWR with any type of tank use, people and stuff?

Am I wrong or was the move to the larger axles and GVWR likely because they figured out the 9,100# GVWR was not adequate for the 30' w/SO and options and fluids, etc? Seems like what I have seen on some of the Class A's where the mfg got the coach weight at or beyond the chassis limits (w/people/fluids and stuff)...and then a year or two later they upped the GVWR?

IS the GVWR "critical" on a TT...like on a Class A?...or is this a non-factor? I am inclined to allow a cushion on these type of limits...and normally do not like to push the "limits".

What say you...better look for a more balanced GVWR vs UBW...such as the late 2005 and later models?

Maybe this is why it appears to have a very good price offering? Always trade-offs!

Thanks...Tom R in Two Harbors, MN

[2airishuman]

hi tom

i know many folks are over gross or over net and do fine.
since most never got the scales who really knows?
like you i'm not one to push these figures. i want a margin for multiple reasons...

i do think the ratings are more important for a/s trailers because of the semi monoque yadda yadda...

here is the thread where i first mentioned my concerns about the ratings for 2005...
http://www.airforums.com/forum...-up-15259.html

as you can see the 31 i considered ordering had a ncc of less than 900lbs.

i did not check specifically on the 30slide unit as i wasn't considering a slide.

later after talking with factory folks i posted this thread about the uprated axles, tires and so on...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ight=good+news

from the first thread you might notice my concern was the difference betweed the printed booklet and the web info since the numbers were consistent.

turns out the higher numbers printed in the booklet were correct. i may have a spreadsheet somewhere with all the classic model figures...i'll look.

do you have the numbers from the certificate that is pasted inside the trailer? it is in the linen/clothes closet or pantry....

short of weighting the unit in question that will be the closest offering for this unit...

and it will show ubw, gvwr, ncc AFTER accounting for water and lpg...

ask the seller to take a photo of this placard...

perhaps the slide models had higher ratings all along but i don't think so...
and i'm sure the disc brakes were added in march 2005....

jack canavera here has a 30 slide. he could likely give you the best user info...

the unit you are considering is a limited? that option package added 800-900lbs to my 34. yours also has 2 a/c? so it must have the 50 amp power upgrade too? again more weight. also the av upgrade....

you really need to get the load info printed on the closet door in the unit.

i'll look for the spreadsheet specs sent 2me from the factory...

cheers
2air'

[flyfisher]

Here's a question about something related to this issue that I've never understood.

When you hitch your trailer to your tow vehicle, you probably transfer 1000 pounds (more or less) from the trailer to the tow vehicle, considering the trailer's tongue weight.

Assuming that you are within the weight limits for your tow vehicle, does this mean that you have another 1000 pounds of carrying capacity in your trailer?

John

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by flyfisher

Assuming that you are within the weight limits for your tow vehicle, does this mean that you have another 1000 pounds of carrying capacity in your trailer?John

hi john...

you are not the first person to think this might be true...

it is not. no no no.


we've discussed this in other threads...in great detail, but basically

the tongue still weights whatever it weights....

the w/d bars and w/d hitch actually INCREASES the forces at the ball/connection....in some cases by double the tongue mass.

instead of the tongue mass having a single support point, the support is redistibuted via torque created by the w/d bars at the connection....but the tongue does not weigh one pound less...

so extra carrying capacity is NOT gained...

no free lunch or perpetual motion here...

cheers
2air'

[TomR]

Thanks 2air...your prior post verify what I had "discovered"...that the GVWR of the "early 2005s were not adequate...and were "upgraded" later in the 2005 production year to "better" GVWR. As it pertains to the 2005 30' Classic Limited w/SO...the GVWR was increased from 9100# early 2005 to 10,300# later in the 2005 production year (along with the addition of disc brakes).

With the many and heavy options I am reasonably certain the for sale 2005 is over the GVWR...likely w/o fluids or passengers. Dual air conditioners, entertainment package, spare tire, faux leather, etc. With a NCC of just over 1000# before the options...could not be much left.

Even though it is a good deal...I would not be comfortable that close to the margin...way too cautious . Thanks Again 2air...as alway...someone else made my "discovery" first!...Tom R in Two Harbors, MN

[2airishuman]

hi tomr...

take a look at this thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...res-27055.html

i've included a pdf document with the factory weights itemized for virtually every option....the spare tire/wheel for example weights 61lbs...

unless the unit in question had aftermarket additions, it is unlikely that empty it's over gvwr...

i don't think a/s can send 'em out that way.

it just may be that with 500lbs of water and 80 of lpg...there is only a few hundred pounds left for personal gear....

and the hitch weight is over 1000lbs for this model without lpg or the tire...

cheers
2air'

[SafeHarbor]

Might the Mothership have any interest in recertifying this trailer to the revised limits with an axle/brake upgrade? Would it be worthwhile asking, or would this catapult the purchase price out of the water?

Just curious.

Lamar

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by SafeHarbor

Might the Mothership have any interest in recertifying this trailer to the revised limits with an axle/brake upgrade? Would it be worthwhile asking, or would this catapult the purchase price out of the water?

Just curious.

Lamar

that is an interesting set of options lamar...

the factory SERVICE center would gladly sell him disc brakes and uprated axles...

the brake upgrade for dual axles is 2200 or so as i recall. higher rated torsen axles would bring the ticket up to 5k approx.

this would give more carry capacity but would the factory 'recert' the trailer? not likely...


what is missing here is the current unit actual weight info...
like mine in this pic.
i get the impression the seller isn't sharing this sticker...

cheers
2air'

[TomR]

Hi Lamar...you may be right. I would guess that the axles and brakes could be changed out for say $5,000??????? That is...disc brakes say $3,000 plus two new higher rated axels...total should be $5,000 or even a bit less?

I quess you could adjust the offer to reflect the change if AS says it can make the change for a stated price.

I will have to think about that...the asking price IS at what I consider a low-reasonable starting point. BTW...it is listed in the For Sale section...take a look and give me your comments...assume you could "upgrade" GVWR and disc brakes for $5,000??? What you think???

Thanks...Tom R