Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Al - K4GLU

2008 models are out and Airstream has not corrected the corrosion problem...
...
Anyone who orders a 2008 should give it a very close examination before accepting delivery from their dealer.

were they using either of these new warning labels submitted to the marketing department?



cheers
2air'

[flyfisher]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I've posted on other threads our corrosion concerns.

If Pictures or words are needed let us know!!

Getting filiform all over the end caps now also.

I'll follow this thread closely.


Bob

Spilled battery acid outside the battery compartment will look exactly like your one picture.

[Toasty's Dad]

I offer the following strictly as my own experience, and NOT as a judgement of anyone or advice to them. But if anybody out there happens to find value here.... you're welcome.

I've followed this thread for a long time, been concerned and thought carefully about what if anything I should do about the corrosion issue.

Our own little baby has some evidence of filiform - door grab handle, door hinges, small threads of it around some rivets. The badly afflicted taillights were replaced at AS's expense in the last month of warranty, during some other repairs.

After a couple of years of dings by stones, bits of dried wax I've missed, stubborn tar and bugs, miscellaneous scratches, I simply don't find my corrosion to be either that objectionable or even that obvious. Toasty still looks just gorgeous to me.

As long as the accumulation of corrosion remains <= the accumulation of such "natural" blemishes and does not extend into the main body of the panels, I'll be able to live with it; even forget about it.

When I cease the skin examination, step away, and see all that sun-splashed aluminum shine, I'm a happy guy. YMMV.

jon

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by flyfisher

Spilled battery acid outside the battery compartment will look exactly like your one picture.

OK....?

And the door hinges....? no acid there.

Have seen the same thing on new units at several different Dealers. Both

filiform and plain old oxidation.

Just can't rationalize the grin and bear it approach

[Silvertwinkie]

Anyone a member of Good Sam? They have a whole group that deals with RV issues.

[Garfield]

Originally Posted by Toasty's Dad

I offer the following strictly as my own experience, and NOT as a judgement of anyone or advice to them. But if anybody out there happens to find value here.... you're welcome.

I've followed this thread for a long time, been concerned and thought carefully about what if anything I should do about the corrosion issue.

Our own little baby has some evidence of filiform - door grab handle, door hinges, small threads of it around some rivets. The badly afflicted taillights were replaced at AS's expense in the last month of warranty, during some other repairs.

After a couple of years of dings by stones, bits of dried wax I've missed, stubborn tar and bugs, miscellaneous scratches, I simply don't find my corrosion to be either that objectionable or even that obvious. Toasty still looks just gorgeous to me.

As long as the accumulation of corrosion remains <= the accumulation of such "natural" blemishes and does not extend into the main body of the panels, I'll be able to live with it; even forget about it.

When I cease the skin examination, step away, and see all that sun-splashed aluminum shine, I'm a happy guy. YMMV.

jon

This is my experience as well. Before we bought our 2001 Safari last fall, I carefully went over the trailer looking for evidence of corrosion. The door handle and hinges are pitted, and the aluminum wheels needed refinishing and some non-stainless steel hardware needed replacing, but I couldn't find any evidence of corrosion on the skin or around rivets. The trailer looks new - my neighbour couldn't believe it was 7 years old.

Maybe we just got lucky, but if so I shure hope my luck continues!

[nine9three]

Great! Just Great!!!
I just purchased my last Aristream a couple of month ago. So excited and still am but simply disgusted about this filiform issue. I checked my trailer over thorougly when new. Rusted tail light bezels and clearence lights but nothing on the skin. I always wash before I store. Now a couple of months later and I'm finding the little "worm tracings" on the rear panel seams. The trailer is a 2007 International CCD SS. I also noticed that the leveling jacks had noticable rust on them at delivery. Does Airstream put these trailers through a salt bath? Help guys! Please Help! We purchased a $60K trailer are we going to be faced with this disease. I have read through most of the threads but is there anything of late that works. What should I do? Either with warrenty or by my own measure. I could take some pics? Thanks in advance.

[nine9three]

Sorry just missed out on my profile which I will change. The 92 sovereign went to a nice gentleman in British Columbia. That trailer by the way had zero issues with filiform!!!! What is different in todays manufacturing process?

[nine9three]

bump

[Ray Eklund]

I know, an aluminum slot machine from 1918 to 1949 seems a distant relative to an aluminum trailer. But, there is a common element between them is the white corrosion.

I found that the low end mechanical slot machines stored in cool and humid areas were the ones that would get this corrosion. There was no way to polish the pitting on the polished surface. These were originally clear coated at the slot machine factory. Even aluminum floor scales produced by Pace and Watling would get this white corrosion.

A metallurgist at a major university might be able to explain the process. I just used these machines for parts. There was no way to restore the original finish other than bondo to fill the pits and paint over it all. I suspect it is the quality of the aluminum being used in the process and the humidity of the environment of storage.

I am watching this problem closely. Here in Colorado with the dry air might be a plus, but my experience was with aluminum slot machines was the humidity was a big factor, and the lower end valued machines had the problem most often.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by nine9three

... What is different in todays manufacturing process?

hi 993

the how and why are covered well back in the 20s/30s posts and summarized again in 63...

including links to how filiform is different from basic surface corrosion.

the difference in manufacturing is covered there too...

i'm not aware of anything NEW for treatment.

i'm trying some other products and processes, but don't have anything to report yet.

cheers
2air'

[Ray Eklund]

I am sorry to butt in one more time at a right angle to the discussion.

A university grad student in metallurgy can use this for a thesis or research project in the department. He would need a sample of unaffected aluminum and affected aluminum. There is a metallurgy department at the Colorado School of Mines in Golden, Colorado if someone is motivated enough to contact the school and have samples to examine (303-273-3000 General Information). Once you know the cause, then you can discuss resolutions for the problem!

Seeburg Jukeboxes have aluminum trim in the 1950's. They had a process to treat the aluminum used (high quality) that seemed very difficult to penetrate/wear and just as difficult to polish off this thin clear finish with a high speed buffing wheel and polishing compound (white brick). I understood it... as exposing the aluminum to an acid that created a clear film on the aluminum's surface. Durable, but the parts were small, so an aluminum skin of an AS might be cost prohibitive using this process.

As a last comment. I see beer cans tossed by hunters in the woods of the West from the 1970's and up that might have no paint left, but the aluminum is not corroded. Aluminum is not used at 100% purity. It is alloyed. Magnesium is added to aluminum to make a strong alloy, which could be the culprit of AS corrosion. Just some ideas to work with.

A metallurgist would have the possible options and an answer quickly.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Seeburg Jukeboxes have aluminum trim in the 1950's. They had a process to treat the aluminum used (high quality) that seemed very difficult to penetrate/wear and just as difficult to polish off this thin clear finish with a high speed buffing wheel and polishing compound (white brick). I understood it... as exposing the aluminum to an acid that created a clear film on the aluminum's surface. Durable, but the parts were small, so an aluminum skin of an AS might be cost prohibitive using this process.

A metallurgist would have the possible options and an answer quickly.

I agree a metalurgist would be able to do this...it's a shame the factory hasn't seemed to grasp this considering so many units, even ones still rolling of the lines could be having this issue.

One thing about the 50's jukes and such, remember that the EPA stopped most of the really good stuff that did work but was an environmetal nightmare. I think that is one of the reasons Airstream got out of the clear coating business, the EPA and environment issues.

[Westfalia]

So get this, after driving 1200 miles to pickup my new trailer from a distant dealer, a quick pre-delivery inspections show filliform corrosion on the front AND rear cap seams.


Un-freaking believable. Several other trailers on the lot show similar corrosion. The few 2007's, like my 'new' trailer, are much worse than the 08's. The dealer has been helpful, but there is little that they can do, since this is Airstreams problems and even with a call today, stands firmly by their stance of no warranty on the skin for corrosion and no assistance to the dealer to fix the problem.

Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't signed the papers on this trailer.

[Gene]

Chris, what a bummer! Maybe that's why is was so reasonable in price.

Gene

[crazylev]

Chris,

Stand your ground. Don't buy it and make sure the dealer has a chit chat with Airstream.

One way to start this process of solving the filform nightmare, is for not only you to turn this unit down, but as a group of Airstream enthusiists, let anyone who is considering buying a new AS know about this problem.

I'd also now start a thread called "PRE-WARNING TO ANYONE CONSIDERING A NEW AS" or something like that.

Someone with better writing skills than me should do this. (Twink?). And keep bumping the thread to the top every now and then.

It's time that Thor and Airstream live up to this problem and burying their head in the sand. This thread is almost one year old as of this date and so far there has been no progress.

This might help.

Or at least get someone to put a contract on my life....

Jonathan

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Westfalia

...Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't signed the papers on this trailer.

i agree, don't sign unless you want to accept this unit warts and all...

the options i see are..

1. accept it as is and fiddle around like others do
2. decline the purchase and wait for another one, which may or may not have it.
3. see if a/s or the dealer will agree to add the classic style belt line trim over the horizontal rivet line and panel edge.

# 3 will cover up the edge. done properly (with acryl-r sealant) virtually no water/salt should get to the edges...

bummer chris, but not surprising. EVERY SINGLE UNIT EVER BUILT is subject to road salts and the alcoa finished panels to filiform...

so where are the photos of this stuff?

cheers
2air'

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Westfalia

Maybe it's a good thing that I haven't signed the papers on this trailer.

Totally unreal. I was sort of hoping that they would have found a solution by now, be it more pure alum, re-coating the areas where they disturb the coating during the building process or something. It's just totally unreal to expect someone to pay these warbucks for these and the freakin' things on the lot are already showing corrosion.

You haven't signed any papers? My advice, RUN! Don't walk. Sure it blows you drove all that way, but think about it for one second. You take it, and then what....watch it fill with these white lines more and more every month or so? I know gas is expensive, but your getting off here cheap. Most of us on the other hand don't have the opportunity you have right now. Of course if you don't care or it's not an issue, sign the papers, post your pics here on this thread and join the happy club of owners with this issue! Misery loves company!

Eventually Airstream will have to address this if folks stop buying units, but frankly the economy is going to do this on it's own, but if you refuse one because of the fillform, then that is the harshest critic they will have to date that I am aware of and someone will know that a sale was lost due to this issue. For we folks that have this issue, they already have our $$$$.

Again, if you haven't signed, RUN! It's just the tip of the iceberg....trust me...it only gets worse as the months go on....of this you can be fairly sure. No one to date has ever said..."hey, it's going away on it's own!"

[Gene]

There was an effort to get together some people who were concerned enough to research a product liabilities lawyer and/or experts in fields like metallurgy, chemistry, etc. Has anything come of that?

There are posts from prospective buyers who have second thoughts once reading this very long thread. With gas prices up and the economy down, Thor Industries may notice they are losing sales at a very bad time for the RV industry. Economics may affect them to consider they have a problem.

If someone wants to start Lev's suggested thread, they might also compile all those posts and send them to Thor.

There's also something else going on—some people have filiform problems and some don't. I think they have models from the same years, though maybe different models. What is the difference? Models, location (near the ocean, road salts, what?), different washing techniques, different waxes, no washing or waxing, use of pressure washers forcing hot water into seams, forcing salts into seams? My point: will Airsteam be able to claim it's poor washing or nonwashing techniques, soaps, waxes, etc.? Every one of these questions would come up in litigation. Perhaps Airstream's recommendations on how to clean and preserve the skin would be a factor—either for or against them.

After six months, I have no problems. I keep looking. My Safari was built last August and brought to Denver in the summer or October at the latest. Therefore, less new road salts, perhaps none. The ocean is 1,000 miles away (ocean salt can travel many miles inland, but not that far). The unit Westphalia was going to buy must have been built last winter (an '07) if I recall correctly and shipped to Arkansas when there was lots of salt on the roads. Could that be an answer? Perhaps everyone with filiform problems should see when their Airstreams were built and shipped. It seems to me there are lots of flliform problems in Florida and I wonder if ocean salts travel across the entire peninsula.

Even more difficult to trace are specific shipments of aluminum from Alcoa—do certain shipments come from different factories? Are the manufacturing process different from day to day (quality control)? These would be discovery questions, but by then you are in litigation.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from taking some sort of action, though reality is somewhat discouraging. If there are a lot of people willing to act and to start compiling information on which models are affected and when they were made and which dealers had them and where they are since purchased, you may see patterns. We are not alluminologists, but there are experts on everything. Maybe contacting university professors who are experts might lead to something—sometimes they are willing to share information or encourage grad students to research it. Some people have posted some very interesting details regarding aluminum—such as #332 posted by Ray. There's something there worth following up as well as Silvertwinkie's mention that EPA has prohibited certain chemicals because they are very dangerous to use.

Gene

I agree this is a very bad problem and that Airstream's response is unconscionable. But you have to take some action—if you have bundles of money, you can hire people to do it, or you can do as much research as possible and look for answers and then if you find something credible, then find a lawyer, or picket the company, paint the trailer, or give up.

[Westfalia]

Hell NO I haven't signed any papers yet, but I am still camping out in the unit tonight, as I have nowhere else to stay! I have pics, I will post soon.

More thoughts as they come . . .