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Old 04-23-2008, 10:32 PM   #41
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WOW...There's no excuse for that kind of lack of quality control! I'm afraid I would be ashamed to try and sell a product with such visable defects.

How can AS, a Mfg that touts a reputatuon for Quality over the years for it's 'Aircraft' style construction, allow this kind of slipshod product to get out of it's plant!

With the rising prices of fuel, all RV associated products are going to feel the 'pinch' from the buying public...and shoddy products will be the first to be weeded out and passed over!

It's almost as if AS is saying to it's prospective buyers...Here it is, take it or leave it...but in tough economic times, this kind of workmanship will come back to haunt AS.

Sure they have an unique product, but that's no excuse to try and force this kind of CRAP on it's customers.

My other concern would be that if you can SEE these defects...what about all the stull behind panels, etc. that may have been finished improperly, bent or whatever that you can't see!

Quality control has to begin with the first weld, screw, rivet, etc...from the ground up.

Once quality is comprimised, it takes years to earn it back...the big three auto makes learned that back in the 50's and 60's...when the foreign Mfg's started selling quality made autos in the US. It's courious that Ford is now advertizing that it's autos are built with better quality than Toyota!

I wouldn't accept a new AS with the rivets as shown in those photos above, no matter how much 'in love' with the rig I might be! A mfg. can't be serious to expect we customers will accept such lack of quality in their product when spending that kind of 'top of the line' money!

If AS expects to present their products as 'top of the line' they had better get their 'quality, job one' hats on straight and fix these kinds of problems BEFORE their new rigs move off the production line!

From being in several business' over the years, it's always been my experience that pride in workmanship begins with the top management and flows down. Cosmetic issues on such a high end product such as an AS rig should be a top priority...design can only carry so much weight in a buying decision...quality has to be built in as well!!!
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:59 PM   #42
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Wake-up!

Hi, 2air's posts and pictures really wake you up to the fact that these trailers can, and will have, problems/defects. To be perfectly honest, I think I was happily blind when I went to pick up our brand new Airstream on September 7th 2004. Luckily we bought a pretty well built trailer with very few defects. But in hind sight, if my trailer had several problems, would I have really noticed them and complained and/or rejected this trailer? Hard to say. Happy to say that our, almost four year old trailer, Looks as-good as-new, inside and out. A few people stated that my trailer looks better and shinier than their newer units. Note: I live fairly close to the Pacific Ocean, my trailer is stored outside, and I have never waxed it.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:46 AM   #43
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Airstream Quality

I am on my way in a few hours to JC
( a 10 hr trip, my appt is for AM tomarrow) reguarding the "eyebrow" issues that 2air brought up here. This is a potential major 2008 issue. Please folks, this is a 2007 "new" unit, but I am asking to post here about my situation as to the results I get with JC. I know this is suppose to be an 08 unit thread only. But it is a hugely appropriate and timely forum to address and add information to a 2008 issue. If you guys don't mind, I will update here from JC. I want to see the AS folks in JC prior to any detailed discussions on the fourms . Thank You

Jim
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:53 AM   #44
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2air, I inspected our rivets very closely and double checked our fit and finish on the interior yesterday. Maybe we're very lucky but our rivets are perfect. I found one that was slightly browed but not bad at all. Aside from a few minor fit and finish things the interior is pretty tight. I can't believe that JC would let a unit in that condition even proceed down the line much less get sold that way. It's hard to believe QC didn't see those issues.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:10 AM   #45
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We have a 2008 25fb. The first few months we had a host of issues...
1) I got locked into the shower for about 3 minutes until Rome heard me screaming to get me out. We had the little brown latch replaced because it was bent and did it a few more times.

2) we discovered a pretty significant leak one day while it was raining. Water started prng in from behind the stove. Found out it that the skylight above had to be resealed.

3) we too had an annoyng whining sound coming from the stereo. that was fixed, we were told it was a ground wire problem.

4) there were a few scratches in cabinetry upon arrival. Those were replaced.

5) The formica on the countertops keeps finding new places to peel off of the particle board underneath. I am pretty careful to not get it wet or let water leak into the seams but it still does it!

Other than these issues we have had no problems with corrosion or rivet problems and we still love the AS despite some "kinks" in the first few months.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:10 AM   #46
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Interesting finds on those 08s 2Air.

It is sad how some things totally get by the QC folks. My unit has several of the rivets and skin nicks 2Air speaks of. Mine are far less than what is on that 08 Classic though...I think less than 10 on mine would be true, maybe even less than 5.

One thing is for sure, in the coming months, as fuel continues to cost more, as does alum, and just about everything else, they won't have to work very hard or fast on the line since orders will no doubt fall at some point.

Looking at Winnebego, I read they just idled a plant for a week. Not the first time either from what I understand.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:31 AM   #47
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Obviously QC at the factory is spotty, ranging from fairly good to terrible. This can happen for many reasons—poor management is a big part of it, but rumors of layoffs because of recession and gas prices can make employees not care.

As soon as we get home, I'll look at the rivets, though I don't recall seeing anything so blatant when I waxed it last week.

Thanks, 2air, for bringing this to our attention with those very helpful explanations and photos.

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Old 04-24-2008, 11:31 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TROPHYJIM2
I know this is suppose to be an 08 unit thread only. But it is a hugely appropriate and timely forum to address and add information to a 2008 issue. If you guys don't mind, I will update here from JC. I want to see the AS folks in JC prior to any detailed discussions on the fourms . Thank You

Jim
Jim we really would like to keep this a 2008 thread. Once it becomes populated with other year issues, it loses it's focus. Please update the 2007 quality thread. That thread will pop up active and will be as viewable and subject to additional posts as this one. Your new 2007 issues are entirely appropriate there and will help document the issues related to that model build year. We are well aware that some problems stretch across model years.

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Old 04-24-2008, 01:54 PM   #49
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2air,
Thanks for the heads-up. I would not accept that unit; rather, I'd wait another 2 months for its replacement to come in. I don't know how many rivets are on the outside of a new 25' Safari (Trade Wind?) but I'd send it back if more than 2% looked like those.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:53 PM   #50
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Wow 2Air, that's probably the worse work that I've ever seen. I can't believe they would actually try to sell that unit and I feel extremely sorry for anyone that buys it. The guy that installed those rivets either had a bad hangover or was new to the job. Maybe everyone that worked on it was at a party the night before.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:29 PM   #51
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Once again I have to thank 2Air for educating us!

I'm embarrassed to admit it but I didn't check the rivets on my new 2008 27FB when we picked it up....Never even thought about it!

I think Airstream is banking on us newbies to accept what the factory is puttin out.

The first thing I'm doing when I get home from work tonight is check my rivets!
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:52 PM   #52
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I'll add my two cents. My wife and I recently purchased an 08 19' International CCD with Cilantro Interior from Toscano RV in Los Banos, CA. Great guys there. Great walkthrough with Slim.

We just finished out first outing to the Santa Criz KOA to test the rig. Overall, it seems great, though we've discovered a few issues that we'll sort out, I hope.

In no particular order:

1) LP Gas detector keeps going off randomly. Even when the lp gas is off at the tanks. I've read this might be due to off-gassing but it was annoying waking us up four time in the middle of the night, with no smells of note. I ultimately disconnected it and will have to have Toscano take a look. I think there' a short or something there, since it doesn't always go off and there's no reason for it to go off if the valve is turned off at the source. Also, where I store it (at Store Inside in Milpitas, great people there too!), said that the alarm goes off every once in a while and that last time when they got it ready for me, the battery was dead. I suspect the faulty alarm ran the battery down. Any thoughts?
2) A piece of wooden bathroom trim came loose during driving.
3) A few of the Zip Dee metal pieces are already corroded. Bummer.
4) The wrap around front right windscreen has a small crack in it. Didn't notice this in the walkaround, so no idea if it happened after deliver or not.
5) The external shower/water (gray plastic) door seems to have a broken keey in the lock. Weird, since I was delivered two full sets of keys.
6) DVD through Sony Head Unit (and upgraded audio/video) makes weird feedback/growling noise. Nearly un-watch-able. I got a wiring diagram from Airstream support but haven't tackled it yet.
7) Can't seem to figure out how to get the rear speakers (above the bed) to work when watch tv. The sound comes out of the tv and/or the front speakers, but the rear speakers don't seem to work. Sometimes we hear very light audio coming through. Will need to investigate further.

We do not have any external rivet issues that we've noticed.

If anyone has any thoughts on these issues and potentially has any fixes, I'd love to hear about them.

Overall, we love this outfit, but are still getting used to it "quirks."

Josh
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:07 PM   #53
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Thumbs down quality

bought a 27' fb in december 07. used it 45 days / 1500 miles so far. dealer has been beyond great. that said , i can't believe the total lack of quality control. dozen of things wrong. just an example , shower switch plate upside down + speakers not connected. how can that possibly happen? i had a hatteras yacht before this. though i was buying the best land yacht = wrong! great idea + design ,put together like a piece of junk. these people are running on momentum. the gas prices will solve that.
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:18 PM   #54
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it was difficult to show, but some of the rivets aren't flush to the skin...

in other words not sealed down to the aluminum panel, this will quickly lead to WATER IN the walls if sealant isn't applied and maintained.

now, IF i were to counter-point my earlier post (arguing withoneself is a mental illness) it might go a bit like this...

"look at the big picture, don't focus on such little things" and "it's only the rivets, quit your beeeeechin' man!"

but it IS the rivets and skin and shape and history of lasting, that help define a 'stream.

so these posts aren't intentional 'stream bashing...

like everyone else WHO BUYS the product, i just want the sloppiness to END!

randomly 'good' units are not an indicator that they have effective systems in play, that result is a well finished product.

and the fact that many sloppy units still leave the factory (for dealers to fix) suggests NO effective control programs.

i just looked through about 75 images of THAT unit and i could not find ANY good rivets, without nicks or brows.

and as an earlier poster suggested IF it looks like that on the outside, what deeper issues may be present?...

OK 3 other issues on this years offerings; not limited to just this unit..

STOVE SPLASH

most units now have aluminum back walls behind the sink/stove and galley, which looks very nice.

so on the side wall they ROUGH CUT WITHOUT EDGE TRIM a tiny piece of metal splash guard...

this looks very cheesy to my i, and the 'unfinished' edge, looks well, un finished.

it would be so much NICER (and cost pennies) with a full wall or 1/2 wall WITH a finished edge...

rear external storage drawer on classics...

these have been lightly galvanized steel for years. they ALL get wet and rust.

especially UNDER the rubber drawer liner, where a bit of water lasts for weeks.

i think (not certain, someone confirm) they may have switched to an aluminum sheet to replace the steel.

this would be a GOOD THING if it is true...

wheels

a/s has decided to deal with the wheel corrosion issue...

they are NOW placing a warning label on all of the allow rims, across on models...

in fairness, i saw exactly the same label/warning on the same rims used on a variety of other brands...

which means rims now come from a basic rv supplier parts bin...

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:26 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDBfreeheel
...5) The external shower/water (gray plastic) door seems to have a broken keey in the lock. Weird, since I was delivered two full sets of keys...
good report josh...

on many of the small external door locks there is a small sliding metal guard that covers the key hole (inside)...

it looks a bit like a broken key and if dry/crudy doesn't slide easily out of the way when a key is inserted...

so try some spray lube on those holes...

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:43 PM   #56
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design within reach, designed without thinking....

the dwr (designed without reason) unit is interesting....

mostly it's a play on decor and accents.

yes the clock is cool, but out of proportion for the unit, as are the GIANT WALL COAT HOOKS...

mommy yelling "careful you'll put an eye out" kept rolling in me brain

the appliances are neat-o, more energy efficient gas range, cool skin/textiles and stainless stuff in the shower.

some of the interior trim and storage ideas are good enough to move to other lines...

but there are some 'what were they thinking' issues too...

the over head lockers are styled like other ccd units (and vintage units) with sliding doors...

on the ccds they are lexan/plastic see-through laminates...

on the dwr the sliding doors are metal, thin perforated metal to transmit the lighting...

however the door edges are simply very thin CUT metal and unfinished....

without exaggeration the door edges are basically as sharp a new bread knife...

or the late nite tv ginsu knives!

they did wisely decided to finish the finger holes no doubt after an inspector type lost a finger or 2 ...

but IF you buy one of these units, and need to slice bread or balogna, you are ALL SET!

the units also feature some dwr melamine? dishes and "cutlery" but NO BOX of bandages...

it funny because with all the warning labels inside a new unit, these doors are deserving of some BLOODY warnings...

cheers
2air'
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all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

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Old 04-24-2008, 06:56 PM   #57
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the dwr, like other smaller units has a wet bath...

this one is right next to the entry door.

inside the wet bath is a small port hole-door...

i assume to pass the shower wand outside (see pic 1) or for venting the john, or pedicures in privacy...

while framed in substantial window frame alumium, the door is either platic or pot metal, a few mm thick.

no insulation, no backing and one of the typically flimsy rotating locks like on the water port or battery doors...

the door has NO gaskets or seals and light/air/liquid easily will move around it even when locked.

so, some of the issues, with this opening that leads directly to the interior (i imagine) are...

-cold air/heat loss, not just when showering but 24/7 as if a window were partially open...

-water from showering, will drip OUTSIDE around the door (or worse INTO the walls) and
-rain/snow/traffic SPLASH will come INside...

-from outside one can REACH INSIDE the unit
-whlie it isn't big enough for a human to use, it could be a kitty door!

they could have done this with 2 doors or a slider/cover inside or other approaches that would be so much nicer...

click the pics for larger views of the johnny porthole....

and now that i think about it the toilet bowl is designed within reach!

cheers
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Old 04-24-2008, 07:35 PM   #58
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I looked over a lot of my rivets, not all, since it has become cold and windy.

The frame around the door window was where about 1/3 had "brows". I only found a few like that on the body. I found quite a few rivets that had indentations, nicks, etc.—how many? I didn't count, but there were several score in a quick survey. One seemed to have a small hole next to it. Some rivets were applied in an uneven line around windows—maybe 4 or 5.

Around the windows there is a lot of sealant slopped around. I'd rather have too much sealant than too little, but it looks sloppy. Some is smeared on the window frames.

The chrome strip around the bottom of the aluminum panels is applied badly—lots of spaces between it and the aluminum panels.

I tried to push a lot of wax into all the spaces above the chrome strip, but that is a poor fix. I was too tired and rushed to use clear silicone sealant there.

I also used a lot of wax around the seams between aluminum panels and the courtesy and tail lights.

No one without any experience at this is going to see all these things when picking up a trailer and doing the walk around. I tried to prepare myself by reading everything I could and spent about 4 hours at the dealership looking for problems.

Thanks to 2air for pointing this out. At this point I'm unsure what I will do about it. Gouged rivets seem to be a cosmetic problem, but the brows and that little hole are not.

When I waxed the trailer, I found a lot of places on the chrome strip where it looked like there was some sort of plastic coating on it that was coming off—there were what looked like air bubbles. Not round ones, but long ones. They were at the ends of strips. They were hard and couldn't be pushed in or pulled off. Maybe it is sealant slopped on, but why only at the ends of the strips?

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Old 04-25-2008, 01:44 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
good report josh...

on many of the small external door locks there is a small sliding metal guard that covers the key hole (inside)...

it looks a bit like a broken key and if dry/crudy doesn't slide easily out of the way when a key is inserted...

so try some spray lube on those holes...

cheers
2air'
Thanks, but it's definitely a broken key in this particular external shower door. Bummer.

If anyone has any luck fixing the growl in with the DVD, please let me know. It's unwatchable in its current form.

-Josh
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:43 AM   #60
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That door to the outside is pretty interesting. I suspect the DWR plaque should say instead "peep shows- $10"!
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