New Feature - Forums for WBCCI Units

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Janet,


I'm afraid these private forums will become a substitute for face-to-face official meetings. It will be easier for some, like you, to participate. But it will also become harder for the non-airstreamforum members to participate.

I won't say this is an attempt by the Airstreamforums to take over the WBCCI, but a conspiracy theorist might see it that way.

One key objective of the FCU was to create a unit for those of us who want to use the internet for meetings and polls. We are looking for a substitute for face-to-face meetings. It's an "alternative" approach, a paradigm shift. There are plenty of traditional units for those who want face-to-face, and snail mail, and business meetings at rallies, and Teen Queen Contests, etc. To tell someone, "you knew it would be difficult to attend the meetings, but you agreed to the existing condtions when you sent in your money" is just the kind of attitude that we were seeking to change by making it easier for far flung members to participate, not more difficult.

Why should belonging to WBCCI be like the double-run of the obstacle course every morning before breakfast, or advancing against a defended postion through grazing, enfilade fire?

[maxandgeorgia]

I've read part but not all of this thread. My question: have the local WBCCI units requested this inclusion on this forum? Has it been okayed with the WBCCI gurus themselves? After all, while some of us do belong to WBCCI, this forum is a wholly separate entity. This might be an okay discussion for WBCCI-Forum members to get together to discuss "stuff" just as they might at a lunch table or campfire,--and then take their discussed ideas back to the actual unit, but this should not fringe on the business sector of the unit itself--as much as that might make business easier for many because of distance or timing. That seems like "hijacking" the unit, to me. When I think of it this way, I too think that this is fringing on the risky edge of creating even more unfriendly distance between some WBCCI and others. And I know that is not the intent of this initiative Just my thoughts~G

[2airishuman]

hi janet and others

the frustrations you note seem common amoung wb units...

getting together is so difficult. mail isn't instant, and so on.

so what the wbcci should do is appoint a director of communications...
"modern communications"....perhaps one for each region...

a web savy, tech wise person to help each and every unit have a web site.

with a unit website many/most things from membership lists to newsletters to meeting minutes and calendars could be widely available...voting or cyber meetings would be just a few modifications away...

andyr has offered and does host club websites...this is a wonderful thing!

i do realize not every member or unit is computer savy,
so a few early meetings (winter stuff instead of going on coffin tours) could be focused on gettting members on line....

those that don't have computers can learn to go to the library and use public terminals...it is easy.

print mail can and should still be used...

and units could vote NOT to use electronic media...just watch those unit shrink....

chris's point and mine and others is that doing this for the wb delays their own move toward the inevitable...

i read people suggesting....'i already come here, so do my friends, so lets do it here'...
that is such lazy thinking and risks losing club idenity and control for a few key strokes....

again the save wally group are a force now partly because they stopped relying on moderated threads here....
they made a great move out of a strong need and an important issue...

wb units are doing great websites already....regions can advance by following the models of the better units...

it will work.

right now i'm thinking we need a private chat area here for hensley users...we will only discuss the hitch, honest...

cheers
2air'

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by yukionna

There are many members who don't attend our business meetings or even tow any longer but they are still interested in the club and the club's business. It is unfair to exclude them because they don't participate in a certain communication channel. To reach out to all members, we need to do it using a communication means that reaches everyone. At this point, that "all-inclusive" communication channel is only postal mail. I'm not sure I'm even comfortable with voting on this either because the non-Internet users are clearly in the minority and would easily get out-voted. In all fairness, I'm thinking out loud that perhaps the NEU won't be able to participate in this new process until all NEU users are on the internet.

I see your points, but I don't agree about not using the private forum for these reasons. For those who don't/can't attend business meetings but are interested in club business, it's already unfair that they don't have any opportunity to participate in the discussion. As long as you're just opening up the forum for discussion, not decisionmaking, then it's just enhancing your unit's government by opening up new lines of communication. As long as your forum is available to anyone in the unit who wants to take part, then it's fair. People can choose to take part or not, just as they can choose to attend or not attend the business meeting. (Yes, I realize some people are not internet savvy, don't own computers, etc., but this can be equated to some people living 2000 miles away from the business rally, or not being able to attend for health reasons, etc.) From my viewpoint, the rally business meeting is not as fair as the forum discussion because it is less convenient to the most people ("non-internet users are in the minority"), and it's where the decisionmaking takes place. Face-to-face contact is good and it should remain, but the forum doesn't replace it it only augments it.

We have gone through this in our local school system. For a long time the school newsletter was done only on paper and sent home with kids. People complained then that the kids lost it. Then the school began to be post the newsletter to the school website for parents. Next the newsletter was sent to everyone electronically along with the paper issue sent home with kids. And now, the paper issue is no longer sent home with kids, and anyone who wants to see can access it by computer or request a copy from the school. The newsletter is just a source of information. No school board decisions are made using the computer email list. The biggest complaint now is information overload.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by klevan

One key objective of the FCU was to create a unit for those of us who want to use the internet for meetings and polls. We are looking for a substitute for face-to-face meetings.

Ken,

I agree totally with your approach, and kudos to you. The people in FCU 'select-in' by using the forums and are internet savvy. I think you are the ideal for how WBCCI can evolve.

But your group is not leaving behind a group of shareholders who may have belonged to WBCCI for years, and would feel dis-enfranchised because they don't belong to the airstreamforums.

[2airishuman]

hi ken...

i support the newnewmex unit.

and a model that uses cyber communication primarily really interests me...

i'd like to see a national unit for full timers,
mals and others that aren't interested in the current local units...

and as mark points out. IF that unit existed signing up,
would bind the membership to the features, rules and limitations of that unit...

just like joining any local unit...

yahoo groups make it very easy for anyone to share info, pics, polls, calendars and so on with others....

it would seem that the fcu planners should be there or other similar websites...planning, meeting, chatting and so on...

pretending to be a unit and being given 'private unit forum' status here really is sticking it to the wb....that's fine i guess.

but it lowers the credibility of a/f.com imo....

i disagree with the denial letter you received,
but one item in it seemed to suggest the writer was against 'cyber units' and
that real meetings may be key feature of unit charters....

i don't agree with this but it seems to be an issue the wb will need to address for units like yours or a mal unit to appear and prosper...

private areas here aren't good for the wbcci or a/f.com....

you know, how about a super enhanced account?
anyone who pays 50$ can have a private thread....
they can accept or deny others access and then have private chats....
wouldn't that be cool?
it would draw in new members for sure and money too!

cheers
2air'

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

. . . . As long as you're just opening up the forum for discussion, not decisionmaking, then it's just enhancing your unit's government by opening up new lines of communication. .

Not what was said in post #1.

Decisionmaking will be done in the private forums, even if the participants don't acknowlege it. Politicking will happen.

And who gets to select the moderator? Now that's a pretty powerful position for someone who isn't elected by the membership.

It's a zero net sum game. Whatever happens in the private forums will not happen in the WBCCI. Who is going to volunteer to set up a website for a WBCCI unit if it is already happening at the airstreamforums? Who will want to challenge the airstreamforums?

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Not what was said in post #1.

Decisionmaking will be done in the private forums, even if the participants don't acknowlege it. Politicking will happen.

My understanding is that it will be up to the unit what takes place on the unit's forum. Right now, in the New England Unit, any decisions that require a vote of the membership takes place in a face-to-face meeting. Decisions that are up to the NEU Board are done privately (possibly even using - gasp! -- the internet!). Maybe the forum would open up those private discussions a little and help the board to get some member feedback before they make decisions.

Originally Posted by markdoane

Who is going to volunteer to set up a website for a WBCCI unit if it is already happening at the airstreamforums? Who will want to challenge the airstreamforums?

I'm talking about the topic of this thread -- unit forums, not unit websites. The unit websites have been scattered all over private servers everywhere. I don't know anything about the WBCCI effort to bring them under the main WBCCI site. Setting up a forum is a different matter. After seeing all the resistance here, I wouldn't look for the WBCCI to be doing it anytime soon. So, thanks again to ASForums for providing this new tool for WBCCI members.

-Jamie

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by yukionna

I don't think anything has been officially decided yet with regards to NEU participation. Informal preliminary discussions were held at the fall business meeting and most were against it. The way things were left was that Chuck would investigate it and report back to the BOD. I haven't seen a report yet so I can only assume that Chuck hasn't finished his investigation/write-up.

I didn't know I was supposed to file a written report...
but I did investigate. At this point, I think everyone knows as much as I do about it. It is what it is...a simple tool. the question is whether to use it, and how. That is something that as the newest member of the BOD, am the least qualified to say.

Originally Posted by yukionna

]
Technically, for this to be approved for the NEU, it needs to go thru a few "formal" steps:

before we even do that, we have to figure out exactly what it is we're proposing. is there even a need for private discussion amongst:
a) all unit members
b) just the BOD
c) both
d) neither
???

Seems to me, maybe "b". But some don't even think that is a good idea. Again, I think I'm too new to even know if there's a need. But if there is, at least this small group could make use of the tool without being exclusionary.
Anything involving the unit as a whole, it seems to me, shouldn't be private. Perhaps we could simply request a sub-forum for NEU under the existing wbcci forum section, that would be open for any and all to see, for informal discussion. "Official business" would have to remain the way it is now. It wouldn't be a "change", but an "enhancement".

[2airishuman]

do posts in private forums count toward 'member post totals'?

will there be seperate post counts for private/public?

will members in private threads get different rivets?

will private posts be subject to karma and reporting to moderators?

will members be able to post different private profiles inside the private threads?

will there be different personal member info inside a private thread?

will they have different avatars in the private threads...

will the new private thread moderators be able to have just lone long thread or
subtopic threads on rallys, votes, minutes, meetings, member intros, campsites, repairs, for sale....and so on?

once logged into the private section will members be able to go to any public thread too or will they be required to log out private and log back in for public?

special rules for private thread users? of course......it's private.

clicks

2air'

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by chuck

. . . But if there is, at least this small group could make use of the tool without being exclusionary.
Anything involving the unit as a whole, it seems to me, shouldn't be private. Perhaps we could simply request a sub-forum for NEU under the existing wbcci forum section, that would be open for any and all to see, for informal discussion. "Official business" would have to remain the way it is now. It wouldn't be a "change", but an "enhancement".

Golly, that seem like a most reasonable idea. Karma at 'ya.

I think having a private forum for BOD, and a public one for general unit discussion or rally planning is a great idea.

No "official business" (unless by charter amendment, approved by the Unit) is a good idea.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by chuck

But if there is, at least this small group could make use of the tool without being exclusionary.

Isn't this a contradiction in terms? How can it be just a small group and not exclusionary at the same time?

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Right now, in the New England Unit, any decisions that require a vote of the membership takes place in a face-to-face meeting. Decisions that are up to the NEU Board are done privately (possibly even using - gasp! -- the internet!).

Some clarifications...

1) Not all voting has to be done via face-to-face meetings. How voting is handled on issues is determined by the President -- it can be done via mailed ballot or by face-to-face meetings.

2) Executive BOD meetings are just that -- meetings where certain club business is discussed/voted on only by BOD. Typically, those types of meetings consist of mundance business and don't cover earth-shattering issues such as the WBCCI name change. In cases where it is deemed that member input is needed, then it is opened up to member input via publication thru the Quipper and mail in ballot or business meeting voting.

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Maybe the forum would open up those private discussions a little and help the board to get some member feedback before they make decisions.

If this did happen, then the non-Internet folks would be excluded from giving their feedback before the decision was made and hence left out of the process.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Isn't this a contradiction in terms? How can it be just a small group and not exclusionary at the same time?

not really. the board itself, by definition, is exclusive already. I'm fairly certain that every member of the BOD has internet access, so internet based communications would not exclude anyone in this small group; Not so, with the 100+ general membership.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

For those who don't/can't attend business meetings but are interested in club business, it's already unfair that they don't have any opportunity to participate in the discussion.

Clarification...
Yes, they do have an opportunity to participate. In the NEU, the business meeting agendas are publicized in the snail-mailed newsletter a certain amount of days in advance of the meeting. If members want to participate on a particular issue and can't attend the meeting, they write a letter which is included as part of the meeting discussion.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Clarification...
Yes, they do have an opportunity to participate. In the NEU, the business meeting agendas are publicized in the snail-mailed newsletter a certain amount of days in advance of the meeting. If members want to participate on a particular issue and can't attend the meeting, they write a letter which is included as part of the meeting discussion.

I think that is an acceptable way to participate in the discussion. I do have to ask if emails are accepted in the same manner are only letters allowed?

Jim

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by chuck

not really. the board itself, by definition, is exclusive already.

Exactly. The board is a small exclusive group. So whenever the board meets as a small exclusive group they are being exclusionary, excluding others. It's not a non-exclusionary meeting.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

I think that is an acceptable way to participate in the discussion. I do have to ask if emails are accepted in the same manner are only letters allowed?

Jim

Any type of communication channel is acceptable. I have even taken dictation over the telephone and then brought the notes to the meeting for the person who couldn't attend.

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by dougjamie

Exactly. The board is a small exclusive group. So whenever the board meets as a small exclusive group they are being exclusionary, excluding others. It's not a non-exclusionary meeting.

That's the way the NEU constitution and by-laws are written.

I guess the only recourse is if you don't like it then make a motion to amend the by-laws and change it.

Oh wait, I just thought of another recourse...join the BOD!

Next year, we will need two trustees and a 2nd VP. Any interest?

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Any type of communication channel is acceptable. I have even taken dictation over the telephone and then brought the notes to the meeting for the person who couldn't attend.

That sure seems fair to me.

Jim