free AS images??

[eubank]

Does anybody know of a source of free AS images for use in websites, as avatars, whatever? I know that Airstream inc is pretty sensitive about people using their images, and for good reason! (It's theft, after all.) That's why I'm looking for a public-domain source of free ones.

Lynn

[Silvertwinky]

Since you mentioned this, I think it would be a good idea if we had a public file where each one on this forum could contribute their own pictures. Once contributed, it would be understood that anyone could use them for their own non-profit use; such as they could be downloaded for wall-paper on your computer, etc...

What do ya think, Andy?
Anyone else agree?

[startrekker2001]

Can't you download pictures from www.airstreamphotos.com ? I can. Right click on a photo after you have enlarged it from the thumbnail and one of the options is 'Save As'. Others are "set as backgriound" and so on.

I don't think that these photos are proprietary, although if one were to use them for gain, it would be only fair to ask the person who posted them for permission.

What do you think?

Vic

[Rog0525]

I have some images on this YAHOO PHOTO SITE.
All are properly sized to be used as avatars.
If you see any you like, help youself.

Rog

[InsideOut]

I don't think that these photos are proprietary, although if one were to use them for gain, it would be only fair to ask the person who posted them for permission.

It's always a good idea to ask the poster for permission if you intend on using their photos...even if it is just a courtesy. although, I have several photos posted that ARE proprietary and have noted them as such when posting them "photo by Hal Stoelzle/Rocky Mountain News/Copyrighted photo - used with permission". Even I had to pay for the photos to obtain copies...and it's my trailer!

Shari

[05ModPod]

I Agree - Permission would be a good idea.

There are fine lines with "public domain" and I think you have to remember what the purpose of forums and "Photo Albums are for.

I believe most people post photos to the Airsreamphoto forum with the intention and concept of a real time "Photo Album" with the understanding that they will be viewed only and not taken out of or duplicated from the album without permission.

I think it is great that anyone would use some of my photos for their own personal use ie. avatars - wall paper on the desktop etc. Which would constitute "reasonable use" as defined by copyright laws.

Beyond reasonable use however..... - I will be quite honest - I would want to know exactly where & what my photos were being used for and would certainly like the opportunity to provide permission (in writting) first. Especially if one of my photos was to be involved in generating financial funds - unless of course it was for a good charitible cause!

Just my 2-cents

SPK

[eubank]

Originally posted by Rog0525
I have some images on this YAHOO PHOTO SITE.
All are properly sized to be used as avatars.
If you see any you like, help youself.

Rog

Oh, wow, these are really cool! Basically, I was looking for something not just for use as avatar, but also to put on our park business card. I'll write offline to you about it ...

Lynn

[Davydd]

We all upload images to this forum to share with others and tacitly give the forum permission to display them but we still all own our own photos and unless we state they can be used freely by others they should still be assumed owned and copyrighted by the creator. The forum can claim a copyright for the body of the work as a collection but not the individual photos meaning I can't go and start another forum and abscond with the collection for my personal gain. I'm not a lawyer. That is my personal opinion, understanding and experience from managing AOL's Mac Graphics Forum for its first 9 years.

It's a dangerous game to use something without direct permission. It is better to create it yourself or commision it and pay for it.

[Airstream Life]

It's so easy to ask someone via Private Message if you can use their photo, I can't imagine not taking that simple step before "borrowing". Most people I've encountered are flattered to be asked and readily grant permission.

Speaking of which ... <BEGIN SHAMLESS PLUG> ...if you don't want to give your best photos away for free, you guys could submit them to our photo contest! The theme for the next issue is "Old meets New" and we will pay $50 for every pic we print. <END SHAMELESS PLUG>

[startrekker2001]

We all upload images to this forum to share with others and tacitly give the forum permission to display them but we still all own our own photos and unless we state they can be used freely by others they should still be assumed owned and copyrighted by the creator.

Owned yes, copyrighted no. You have to take specific action to copyright. Here is what the airstreamforums/photos says:

"Why AirstreamPhotos.com Exists:
AirstreamPhotos.com is a sister site of AirstreamForums.com that allows you to upload your photos of Airstream Trailer and Motorhomes and related travel. This is the largest single source of Airstream photos on the internet!"

I highlighted "source" because the terms indicates it is a source of material.

Under Miscellaneous we find

"We are not responsible for Copyrighted material that is posted by a member. To report a Copyrighted violation, please email the administrator or contact a moderator. We will remove the content and notify the member not to post material that is Copyrighted. "

I think that we give tacit approval for others to use anything we post for noncommercial purposes. Once it is posted on a public forum, we give up our right to it as long as it is not copyrighted. If someone wants to use one of my pictures as a background that's fine with me. If someone wants to publish a picture, please ask first.

The original question was "

Does anybody know of a source of free AS images for use in websites, as avatars, whatever?

"

My answer is yes. www.airstreamphotos is a source of free AS images.

I would like the Moderator to comment because this is an important point.

[87MH]

I agree with the protection of a "copyright".

Without a specific protective document, in my opinion, most anything is in the area of "public domain".

For sure, "he who can afford the best lawyers wins" in this situation.

My personal morality on the matter is "if you make money with it or because of it, pay for it". If not, use it, and, if asked by the owner (of the photo, manuscript, quote, whatever.....) to NOT use it, graciously abstain from further utilization.

[05ModPod]

Once it is posted on a public forum, we give up our right to it as long as it is not copyrighted.

A lot of people are still under the perception that you have to apply for copyright as in the "old" days prior to (2001? - not sure of the exact year the "Automatic" Copyright laws took affect).

It was actually brought about due to the "public" domain. You do not have to pay for the little "c" anymore folks.

The word "source" can be interpreted as a "source of information" You can not reproduce any photo, graphic or plageriz any public works from any "source" from the internet or otherwise - without expressed written, verbal or other type of permission such as Rog offering his graphics for free.

They reversed the system to make it easier - instead of everyone requesting a copy right on their own artistic work - it is automatically theirs (as they did created it). The ownus now falls on the "user/borrower". If it does not state anywhere that you can use it - you can't without asking permission - as simple as that.

We all know many don't and I too are just as guilty (for our own enjoyment only) but if it were to be used for "anything" Private or Commercial that can be viewed or further sourced as being percieved to be yours instead of the original owner - that is called copyright infringement.

....and the only person who can claim against the infringement is the orignal owner. These laws are the same in both Canada and the United States.
The common statement used today is "All Rights Reserved".

SPK

[05ModPod]

Just another point to add

"Public Domain" is refered to as the cyberspace "Public Library"

If you can think of it like that then you would have no problems with copyright.

There are many little bulletins and things that Libraries offer free and encourage you to copy/reproduce and spread around. However, there are more "sources" of information be it written, or visual i.e. photographs that are NOT alowed to be reproduced as they are copyrighted works or "art/literature".

SPK

[startrekker2001]

SPK

I begin to see your point. I have done some searching in the internet on the subject and you are for all intents and purposes, correct.

In general though, I think it applies to professional photographers displaying the results of their efforts. What we do here is somewhat different.

If what you say is true, and I can't dispute it, then airstreamphotos.com cannot allow any photos to be displayed as they are all copyrighted.

This gets into a very sticky area. I have asked the site administrator to comment.

Perhaps there should be a disclaimer that "all photos are considered copyrighted", or that "all photos are not subject to copyright and can be downloaded for personal noncommercial use" as long as the photo was taken by the author and not copied from some other source.

Vic

[jaco]

OK this is a marginally interesting subject IMHO, but how much weight does it carry?
Let me first state that I have NO expertise in the fields of intellectual or artistic property rights, nor do I traffic in any commerce which involves questions of same.

There are a number of well written opinions in this thread and I appreciate that they have been identified by their authors as just that...opinion.

One of the great shortcomings of the computer age is that anyone can state anything as fact, and certainly on discussion groups often do. I think we are all mature enough to use caution on taking anything we read here or elsewhere without a couple of pounds of salt.

In the case of ametuer photos taken digitally, I wonder how one would ever prove ownership in court? No negatives obviously. No identifing marks in most cases. Maybe a hard-drive could be analized to prove it held first generation images??? Or maybe not.

Looks like the plaintiff would be heavily burdened if the defense lawyer was even half bright.

I download any and everything I choose to. Have no plans to publish anything. Might re-post another's picture for clarification purposes.
Brings up the subject of written text...do you all consider it exactly the same as photos?
One other thought is that since most forum/board/net users use annonymous nicknames, and most don't cross those with some real-name data base, then can what they post under those unregistered pseudonyms even qualify for adjudication?

[05ModPod]

Yes Jaco - I totally agree - what you or I or anyone else for that matter can be shall we say spewing bits of cyberspace nonesense - and that is half the fun.

The real fun is doing your own research! So if I had a question about Copyright Laws - I would probably either obtain a copy of the Law or go to various bonifide legal sites and download a copy of the Law.

startrekker2001 (by the way like your handle are you really into Star Trek?)

Photographs taken by anyone (amueture or professional) are covered under the copyright law - so what you take or I is considered personal "art" (or dog breakfast in some peoples opinions )

I keep refering to the "automatic copyright" law (when I have a minute I will find you some links if need be) So your point about putting disclaimers on this site is not necessary. Airstreamphotos already have a copyright to their site Meaning concept, layout, procedure etc. etc of how the site works. The individuals have a copyright to their photos that they post.

Jaco as far as burden of proof in the digital world you are correct - it can be pretty difficult - however there is still the signature of the original digital file - and if it came to it that is how it would be proven.

I just went through an issue with an Internet Website - who reproduced an ad that I had created for my printed publication (the publication is free) However the advertising is paid by the customer) I have a full copyright on the works in hole or in part. The ad was scanned and then used by the same client on an Industry competitor Web Site. In this case it is the publisher of the web site who is in the wrong first, as well as the customer being in the wrong - secondary. The Customer pays for the advertising space in the printed publication and not the design and layout - unless I specifically indicate this in my advertising contract with the customer.

Thus either the Customer must contact me for permission to supply the ad to the Web Site owner or the publisher of the Web site must contact me for permission. Either way copyright infringement could have been avoided with a simple phone call (and of course a reasonable business person).

Jaco - you can ask the moderators - but the only opinion that would be worth anything is written by a lawyer - many cases are different and very unique depending on the full circumstances.

But just remember - you do not have to be a professional photographer to take an amazing photograph - that could end up in Life Magazine - or National Geographic. And if you are interested in how much Photographs cost royalties wise - just take a look at any photo sites that offer "Stock Photography".

I just think the issue is really not that big - everyone knows where the boundaries are - so just don't pawn anything off as your own when you know it is not yours - or the very least provide full credit - even if it is a bogus name such as GT6921 who is refered to as SPK and has an e-mail that is registered with this site and very traceable to the actual person behind the Avatar.