The HydroFlame heater looks like a really well thought out heater. Looking forward to your rebuild and hearing how it works. The trailer is looking sharp as well. Really nice polish on it. Great model and year.
Mostly yes, and I think I've figured out the one no. The bad part of the design is that there's not a moisture drain in the bottom of the pan, in the combustion chamber. The dual tube flue sits perfectly horizontal, and a driving rain, with the trailer stored outside will cause a puddle in the bottom which is what caused the rust in Al and my bottom pan on the heater.
The good part is the lack of need for 12V. It is said to work well in a small trailer like a Bambi or Caravel, but would probably need more air circulation in a larger trailer. The location down low lends itself for good heat convection, but my preference is for a toasted fanny and not heating the back of my knees.
All in all, assuming I get my unit up to specs, it should work just fine for me, since I doubt I'll be out camping below freezing with no protection for my holding tanks.
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Detroit
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 467
Had the same issue towing in a deluge. On my Dickenson p12000, I installed a weather shroud over the deck cap. Secures to the cap with a wing nut. Completely covers the chimney.
As you know, the '68's are the bomb. All the good and the vintage outside look. Wish my Safari was a '68 also. (late '67 with delivery in '68 but the forward end cap is definately '67, but half the windows have stainless trim). But, don't tell @Cerberus. That's another secret story for later.
WHAT? WHAT?? THERE'S ANOTHER SECRET STORY? Give, docflyboy!
Well Vivian, I though you might not ever read between the lines and ask about the trailer in the gravel lot that I "passed" on. After the GT got away, I saw this '67 in a gravel lot on the way to my farm. There was a low budget RV repair shop that was a front for the owner's drag racing passion. I initially looked at the trailer but thought it was too rough to be worth the effort that I was planning on putting into a restoration. Three of four end caps had basketball sized dents in them, and it looked like the trailer would need a lot of extra disassembly and English Wheel work. So I passed, at least at that time, and went on to buy Monkey Business.
I left my '05 Safari in the shop for a four item punch list to check this guy's shop out for honesty and quality of craftsmanship. When I went to pick up my '05, the owner's young helper, who had showed me the trailer initially, said the owner of the trailer, who had been doing a little work on it herself and having the shop do the bigger things, had had a reversal in her good fortune and was having trouble paying her shop charge. He said she was willing to Fire Sale it to move on with her life.
I asked the owner what it would take to buy it, and after a few days he got back to me. The price was definitely right for a "parts trailer".
Now here's the part you were waiting for...When I went to pick it up, the shop owner said, "I think you're going to be happy with your purchase". His review of the paperwork that the owner had led him to believe it was a one owner trailer, and the warranty card and original owner registration and all receipts were in the clasped folio of documents.
Well, that wasn't enough info for the docflyboy...with owner's name known, it wouldn't be hard to track this down. Turns out it was purchased by the Flight Surgeon for the Mercury Seven NASA program, as he was about to be discharged from the Navy. So the warranty card for the '67 says a August 23, 1968 delivery date. The doc recovered 5 of 6 of the Mercury Program, all but the final flight. He was a football All-American and played Triple-A for the Yankee's before Med School.
So with all this recent knowledge, I was pretty excited, so I texted my son and said "Can you keep a secret from Mom?" and about that time he responded to what I would quickly realize was a group text from Wife, Son, Daughter and myself. I spilled the beans, thinking I was just telling Jake.
I had asked the gravel lot RV repair guy if I could just leave it in his lot, till I got some things shuffled around. Before spilling the beans, I moved my things around in my 20 X 80' covered storage area and put the '67 Safari back behind my Sovereign. My wife doesn't usually go to the storage with me to get the '05, so I thought I'd pluck a few parts off the '67 for the Caravel and then maybe move it down the road, till the trailer's history was known. It's too good to steal parts from, everything is original, and a paintless dent guy got the dents almost invisible, so it will have to wait it's turn, but it's not going anywhere.
This weekend, I made more progress on the trailer. I realized that I wouldn't be able to keep the center piece that holds the inside skins and demises the mid-line, without it being severely in the way, plus needing to remove the doubler that was in place for the A/C installation. So now I've got a clean trailer, with the exception that the end-caps are in place.
For those who have wiring questions, photos of how AS wired the 115V as well as the 12V is interesting. I'm going to do a little photo edit to try to make it clear. Very cleverly, all splices are made up under a ceiling light, which has about a 2" opening under the light. The 12V wires are twisted together back about 6" which makes them hard to pull down, so if I didn't know how the factory did things, I wouldn't have tried.
My two reading lights and the circuit for the scare light all tie up just behind the end-cap under the forward ceiling light. Mind you, I'm still trying not to pull my forward and rear end-caps.
What I did think was curious was how the water pump was switched. It was switched through what is an ordinary AC style toggle switch in the galley. It was not in one of the electrical boxes like the AC was and was just made up behind the inside skin.
So I have some questions for the experienced restoration crowd.
1) are those high quality ?bakelite boxes available, or does anyone have a couple spares laying around?
2) do you think 12V switching should be done with something that doesn't look AC, so that it's more obvious what works with and without shore power.
3) if you support the residential switches, do people wire some circuits with 3-way switches to turn off and on lights to walk back to the bathroom, etc?
We had to search for a couple of Bakelite receptacle cover plates a few years back and found them. I looked on EBay today and found a few. As far as wiring a three-way, if you want it go for it. We considered it but just more connections to vibrate loose. Good luck on the cover plates.
That was a very good story about finding the '67 and its heritage. Very cool indeed. I hope all is well in your family after the subterfuge was found out? It's so exciting to find a bargain on a vintage Airstream, much less one with such an interesting history. Good on ya!
I previously posted a link to VetteGuy's thread on Hydro-Flame furnace repair. I got mine fixed and back together today. I used some fluxed Silver Solder and chips of razor blade to fix the three holes that rust had caused in my bottom pan. An 18" thermocouple worked fine and my Snap Valve turned fine before and the expansion bulb looked OK except for a few tight bends, but no kinks.
The light surface rust was treated with a phosphoric acid conversion and then neutralized and the outside of the combustion chamber was painted with a 99.5% aluminum dust rattle can paint rated for 1500 F.
Built a test apparatus and plumbed it to propane and lit easily and stayed lit. Snap Valve cycled nicely on and off and baked the paint. Tested the temps with an IR thermometer to see just how safe sleeping next to this would be. I'd say safe for adults and probably dogs, but not toddlers. It does have a night time setting, and the pilot light would keep the trailer decent alone. Now that I know it works, will paint the door of the unit with a rattle can copper color enamel and buff the trim, then let it bake itself for durability. Happy I took the time to build the test stand, so that I can run it several more times, and see how it does in a gusty wind situation, regarding the pilot light staying lit.
Many thanks to those who commented in the other thread, especially regarding asbestos safety.
We had some great weather here in KC this weekend. The inside skins are all out, but the end-caps are in and I don't want to risk cracking them.
I brought the Caravel home for Saturday and Sunday to work in the driveway.
With the windows open, it really ventilates well, and despite no insulation, the polished aluminum must work reasonably well to reflect the IR.
I decided to go with all marine grade wiring, and ordered Ancor for both the 115V and 12V side.
I had been thinking about where to locate my 115V electrical panel for some time and went ahead and mounted it first thing. I think it was a good breakthrough, since I was planning on having my 12V panel in the forward end of the triple street-side lockers. My thinking is that way,I wouldn't have to crawl on the floor, to flip breakers to shed a load, if I was boon-docking. I know that space is pretty precious in a small trailer, but for me it made sense. Before removing the skins, I used a laser on the floor to locate where the hole would end up being on the interior skin to bring the wires through, and marked the floor.
I decided on all home-run wiring, rather than daisy chain, even though I plan on 5 DC breakers. I'll make up the circuits on terminal strips behind the DC panel, and they'll all be wire labeled.
I'm using an MSH3012M mostly for load assist when camping with a generator. I had to decide which AC circuits would be load assist and which ones would be "pass-through" on shore power.
My trailer originally had a forward outlet, a bathroom outlet, a coffee maker outlet and an outlet for the 2-way fridge. I'm sticking with that, but added an outlet for a two-way water heater, and an exterior outlet just aft of the wheel well.
The original DC had three circuits going into the forward end-cap, and then all the lights and a couple other always on circuits were made up with mega wire nuts just under the forward and bath ceiling light fixture. There was a residential style switch in the galley that switched the water pump that was in the front left corner, but with the fresh water moved under the floor and forward of the axle, this left a hole in the kitchen skin, so it seemed best to use a 3-way switch and convert the bathroom ceiling fixture to a three way rotary switch and daisy chain the vanity light to that.
I took BubbaL's suggestion and added circuits that would be accessible in both upper side lockers, and both closets.
All total, it took 500 feet of 18 ga Ancor red and white wire to do all the runs as home-run. The only daisy chain was for fans, where I decided that the range hood, the vent fan and the little 12V oscillator that the trailer came with would all be on that circuit, since they were all in line with the bulkhead.
I used the notes app in my iPhone to dictate how all the circuits ran, and then took as many pics as I could. Next week, I'll start putting my Thinsulate in and start pop riveting the skins back in. Although they overlap with the lower skins going on first, I drilled them out top skins last, so for reasons of gravity and the insulation staying put, I'm planning on riveting the doublers in the ceiling first then the center divider and the top skins, less the lower row of rivets.
I've got a couple manual pop rivet squeezers, but I think I'm going to see if Harbor Freight sells a pneumatic pop rivet gun. I've got some help arranged, mostly to get the pin out of the rivet gun, or squeezer, which should speed things along, as well as holding things in place without getting creased.
I've got my Marmoleum guy arranged, and the material gets ordered tomorrow. I've decided on Zolotone Flex on the aluminum skins and the forward fiberglass endcap.
My bath endcap is in pretty good shape, but I've got to get some silicone calk to be removed. A little buffing will make the pan and the end-cap look almost like new. I'd like to know what compound and what buffers others have had success on the gelcoat.
I'm starting my schematic and will post it prior to buttoning up, looking to avoid the likely oversight.
I haven't hole sawed my shore power receptacle but it will be behind the wheel well, and the MSH3012M calls for pretty hefty wire gauge. I'll be using 8 AWG to the breaker panel, and I'm going to put in a generator plug on the forward skin, symmetrical to my faux water tank filler neck. I'll use a DPDT 30A switch that I'll put on the circuit breaker panel cover, orienting the switch so that it is in the forward postion on gen and aft on shore.
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Detroit
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 467
Great progress, Jerry!
I have a question about your 18 AWG DC wire. Did you consider each DC circuit’s length, anticipated amp draw, and voltage drop when you sized your DC wire runs?
I ended up using 12AWG but realize my trailer is longer and my DC distribution panel is located up front which lengthened the run length. Wire run length includes the positive and negative wire (so essentially double the physical length to the DC appliance. Your anticipated amp draw and acceptable voltage drop (e.g. 10% vs 3%) at the end of each wire run might be less of an issue in your setting as well. A few items in my trailer needed less than a 3% drop (e.g. my Isotherm DC refrigerator requiring 10AWG wire).
On my next trailer, I plan to locate all the electrical mid ship to decrease wire run length. On my Tradewind I also used crimped wire butt connectors that had heat shrink and glue built in. With your aviation background I suspect you are familiar with them and the concerns about solder cracking due to vibration.
Lastly, you might consider prewiring for solar even if you don’t plan on panels being on the roof. The next owner might see value in this.
My bad. They're all 12 ga. Made me check the empty spools. I also looked over the top of the trailer. There just isn't any room for solar on such a short trailer. I decided on an exterior DC plug that I'll probably put one one each side. I think solar for this small of a trailer will have to be some sort of folding table with two 150 watt panels that can tilt. I am putting in an Anderson plug up front, like you did to power off the TV. As you know there are so many possibilites. I think it's starting to feel copper ballasted.
The idea of the lower skins last on seems to be a good way to fix after thoughts. I'd just like to button it up from back to front to get my bathroom back in. There are a bunch of little things that need to be done, but a breakthrough is uplifting, none the less. Jerry
I really had a great progress day yesterday, right up until I realized I needed a third set of hands to put the ceiling skins back in. Maybe that was for the better. I had a very enthusiastic hard working person helping that really wanted to see it fly together, but one realizes that just like barbeque, low and slow sometimes is best.
I've got my interior skins really looking good. Maybe I won't paint them, and maybe just paint the forward end-cap to get a color match. I've still got some water spotted and overt corrosion spots on my window frames, and I'f I'm going to buff them should do so before the skins go in. I'll likely buff the interior part, as well as my screen frames, since I don't have matching patina frames. I don't want to get a bunch of splatter all around from the rouge or Blue Diamond polish.
The sills have had standing water, and I'm planning on painting them with my single stage metallic aluminum paint on just the bottom horizontal surface. What is the best way to clean up the corrosion and then prep the metal for painting? Thoughts?
1968 24' Tradewind
1968 26' Overlander
Detroit
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 467
Sounds like progress! I'd definitely tackle the removal of oxidation from the window sills before you button up the interior skins. In haste, I did not and now am dreading having to mask off everything to clean up the sills. I may just leave them alone with the existing patina but I should have at minimum gave them a once over.
On other aluminum parts needing cleaning I've had success using an aluminum brightener if I wasn't dealing with adhesives. I no longer have the bottle but believe I used a StarBright product (good reviews from the boating community).
My trailer had a variety of adhesives applied to the outside window frames including silicone, hot glue and other products. This ultimately required the careful application of a wire wheel and heavy duty and toxic chemicals like methyl ethyl ketone. Of course, you know this required lots of PPE and ventilation to use. In retrospect, I'd try to source a safer product.
Brian- thanks. I did a little hangar cleaning yesterday to set up the space for bringing the trailer there, rather than sometimes in the driveway and sometimes at my hangar. Seemed like the tool I needed was always at the other location.
Yesterday, it was the hand pop rivet squeezer. None the less, I rediscovered a little gizmo that is like a self contained bead blast cabinet, that I've had for 25 years. It has nozzles that have various patterns and then it reclaims most of the aluminum oxide media in the attached bag. I put some old scrap aluminum in my bending brake and made a 90 degree angle in some stuff that I think I used for Bondo application. Cleaned up nice and quick.
Think I'll mask the inside of my windows off and do just the outside component of the sills. You're welcome to head across the state line and use it if you'd like. I'll let you know if it makes much of a mess. Jerry
I'm pretty close to putting my interior skins back in. I noticed one thing that I should have done when I was unzipping things. I have a doubler that I think was there from the factory or maybe was put there when the A/C was put in. I should have circled the rivets that I had to drill out to get this out to change the insulation, after I removed the skins, so that I didn't put a pop rivet in a hole that was a through hole from skin to the doubler or even the ribs. I've got a little of the same problem with the holes for my F-channel for my bulkheads. I would appreciate a photo posted of the bulkhead, so that I can see where the aluminum overlaps the fiberglass end cap in the back and where the bulkhead sits. I've got my skins almost like new and can't see a grime line to help me out. A photo from the bathroom looking up and forward and one giving me the spacing between the aft edge of both sides windows and the left and right bulkhead would be helpful. You should always look at your photos before you fly through your disassembly. Obviously the photos I need are from 65-68 Caravels. many thanks, Jerry
A question about structural support for rooftop A/C
Today I went over to the local RV parts distribution house in KC and I was going to pick up a Penguin II so that I could mount it this weekend to then move on with my TV antenna mount before replacing the interior skins. My trailer was retrofitted with A/C as near as I can tell. My opinion is based on the pine wood 4 sided insert that goes inside the cutout and a slightly butchered pair of doublers beneath the interior skins. I was looking at the install manual and it calls for a structure able to handle a 200# static load to manage a lesser dynamic load, and this wouldn't pass that test. Should I do a little carpentry and make the sides run the length between the ribs to pick up strength from the interior and exterior skins effectively making a |=| kind of structure with the | running longitudinally, which would be a lot easier than fabbing up this in 2024. There's a wide channel that's riveted to the roof skin that runs parallel to the mid- line on each side as a structural element as well, or is what was there good enough? Am I over-thinking this? Thoughts?
I don’t think you can overbuild the area that’s supporting an AC bouncing down the road. We reinforced the top center vent on both our trailers. On the 55 we don’t have a roof unit, but reinforced it anyway in the future event of. We did go from rib to rib to transfer the load to structural components. We used 1 1/2” aluminum tubing with a couple of ‘L’ angle riveted to the ends of the tubing placed so we could rivet the tube to the rib. In short, I would reinforce the area around the opening. Good luck
BubbaL-thanks for your comments. I agree with your plan. I dropped by my storage unit and did a little further inspection. The channels are about 4" outboard of the sides of my single vent and opening for my A/C. So they are structural, and give support for the roof as well as the lockers, but they're a little outboard of where the load rests regarding the A/C. Looks like a pair of 1 1/2" square aluminum tubes running long-wise between the ribs is the easiest bet. The dimension between the aft edge of my A/C cutout and the forward edge of my vent made me take pause, though. The installation manual on the Penquin II doesn't give that dimension in absolute terms. I'm guessing it's going to be a close fit. Most other A/C's have pretty similar front to back dimensions, and the few that are shorter obviously aren't low profile. So it looks like there's a trip to Airparts on the way home from work today.
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