1966 Caravel Restoration

[Flostream66]

Originally Posted by docflyboy

Hollie-If you put the wheel well cover up for grabs, mine came back from Texas missing my curb-side plastic cover.
I was working on my project yesterday, and had a question for you or your team: My lowest inside skins need quite a bit of trim and a few are short. Did others doing a shell off find that this was the case, or am I missing something. The shop in Texas said I had about a 1 1/2" twist in my frame which made marrying up the shell to the new frame one of the hardest that they've done. Did your shop rebuild and repair your frame, or fab a new one, and did all your interior skins line up? Also, let us know where you found a nice selection of "vintage" Formica or other brand laminates. Nice work. Jerry

Hi Jerry, thanks for the nod. For the most part, the skins have gone in with the original holes lining up to aluminum trim. The lower skin in the shower surround had to be trimmed under the window (about 3/8") to get it to fit up under the window frame. We attributed this to the new plywood floor, the underlayment required for the Marmoleum installation, the thickness of the Marmoleum itself (definitely denser than the original 8" tiles), and the Porsche bodywork that had to be done to repair the shower surround. I do remember reading somewhere on the Forums that reinstalling the interiors requires constant adjustments to get everything to fit back in - so much so, that it has become a running joke when Carl and I are working putting the trailer puzzle back together!

The other place where the skins were off was at the cooktop area – there is a gap of approximately ½ to ¾” wide to the left of the CS bulkhead, and on the ceiling over the main living area next to the light - that came back pretty narly...we are trying to figure a way to get it back into alignment and fix the dented aluminum detail strip.

The chassis is original and was refurbished last Jan-Feb. It was just rusty, not twisted like yours apparently was – such a bummer.

We are planning to laminate the countertop this weekend, and I will do a more detailed thread on that once the kitchen cabinet is re-installed. But since you asked about laminate options, my approach was to try to find something that would evoke the same soft cream and light tan design in the original laminate in the Caravel, but freshen the look. I sourced my countertop from Formica, but I also samples from the Wilsonart line – both have a wide range of colors and options. And both have collections which are based on archived mid-century designs. There is a very good article on this, that you might find useful as a reference point: https://retrorenovation.com/2019/06/...inate-designs/

I actually saved the CS wheel well cover just in case someone wanted it. It has a small crack on the front left corner, but we were still able to rivet the rest of it solidly to the trailer. I am keeping the vinyl coated skin trims to re-attach the new wheel well cover we are making. But happy to ship the CS wheel well cover to you – same as last time? I hope you found all the parts to the Hydro Flame in order – that was quite the hour-long packing job! Let me know and I will get it off to you early next week [it is pouring here today!]

[docflyboy]

Hollie- that would be great about shipping the inner fender cover. Mine was riveted in the mid section. I think if you drill those out, the two halves would fit in a much smaller box. All that you shipped was received in great shape. I'm going to get the bottom pan off and get Al taken care of. My old frame had the twist, but the new one is very flat. It is a jig saw puzzle to get the skins back in the right locations. I'm glad I'm doing it now. I was planning on waiting till after the Marmoleum, in case some mastic got on the walls, but now I think I'd probably have scuffed the Marmoleum. It sure is a process, fit it, remove it, paint it, cleco, make sure it's right, check the wiring one more time, rivet it and hopefully not have to drill it back out...but boy is it fun, plus the weather is better now than July in the Midwest. Jerry

[Flostream66]

Jerry, I want to be sure that my CS cover is what you need. You refer to a "fender cover" in your note, and describe it as being "riveted in the mid section." I have attached a photo of the plastic wheel well cover I need to replace. It is one piece and has been removed. I will send you a photo of it. I would not feel comfortable cutting it in half.

Yes, the order of the interior resto is not like a conventional house build. Marmoleum sells mastic remover...pricey, but i found it to be very effective for cleaning up the extra mastic.

I am so grateful for the fall temps...July and August temps, even in the garage were brutal. Today promises to be a quintessential fall day!

And thanks for taking care of the Hydro Flame piece Al needed. I look forward to seeing photos of both of your rebuilds!

[docflyboy]

Hollie- yours is better than mine, but yes that is correct. It looks like in '68 they probably took a double axle cover and cut it down and riveted the two halves together. I think yours will work great on my CS. thanks Jerry

[Flostream66]

With classic rock crankin' and a camping reservation looming large, we jammed, we crammed, we cut, we glued, and when the dust settled on Sunday, the galley was as good as new with its custom aluminum tread wheel well cover (just like Dingo Girl's), a fully-plumbed galley with gray tank and vent lines run tightly to conserve space, the countertop with Formica affixed, awaiting the Porsche expert to finish molding the refrigerator chimney, and the outdoor shower and toolbox cubby ready for install [above the wheel well]...stay tuned as we rock on!

Argonaut20 - good call on the wax paper technique for placing the Formica coated with contact cement - we used parchment paper because that's what we had, and it worked great!

[dbj216]

You're getting way too much done! Nothing like a deadline to motivate a person. Most of us take a year to renovate an old Airstream. Excellent progress you folks have made.

Wheel well looks great, same with the galley cabinet. Airstream stuffed a lot of things under those galley cabinets.

David

[Flostream66]

Thanks for your kind words, David J. Considering we can only work on weekends, we have been moving along pretty steadily...without doubt, we would have been done weeks ago if we could have been doing this on a full-time basis!

I did some research on the Forums about the wheel well cover and found the one that Dingo Girl made and decided to replicate it. I am so glad I did because it is far more compact (even though it is insulated on all sides!) than the original plastic ones -- and this translates into more usable storage in the Galley.

For me, I have been at this for a year now - having taken Flo for a shell-off in late October of last year. So, it is just time to get this done and get back on the road while I still can ... and besides, Carl's wife wants her garage parking space back before the snow flies...that is motivation enough!

[steinVT]

Hi Hollie, just found your thread and did a quick read. You and your pit crew are doing a great job. Looking forward to seeing you and Flo next year at some vintage rallies.

One comment, I too vented my fresh tank thru the floor on the Safari. On our first big trip I found we had dumped about a third of the water from it sloshing around. I ended up adding a valve to the vent line that I close during transport. Keep up the good work - Mark

[Flostream66]

Originally Posted by steinVT

Hi Hollie, just found your thread and did a quick read. You and your pit crew are doing a great job. Looking forward to seeing you and Flo next year at some vintage rallies.

One comment, I too vented my fresh tank thru the floor on the Safari. On our first big trip I found we had dumped about a third of the water from it sloshing around. I ended up adding a valve to the vent line that I close during transport. Keep up the good work - Mark

Mark, that is a big YIKES...I want no more sloshing around. Thanks for the tip. Question: is your gray tank vented and connected to the sink vent? If you look at the photos, you will see a change from white PVC to black ABS pipe that goes down into gray tanks via a separate pipe. So, I would think I would be safe unless you are saying that your water came sloshing out of the kitchen sink. If you are able, could you take a photograph of the vent so that I can figure out if I need to add that to my "set-up".

Thanks and I look forward to meeting you as well one of these days. Hollie

[Flostream66]

The refrigerator chimney is complete and is going to be painted with single stage automotive paint by the vintage car restorer. Install is slated to follow.

I would appreciate it greatly if other Caravel restorers could tell me what you did to seal the small gap between the countertop and the wall and chimney.

I have installed the edge trim and I really like the look - my one concern is whether the fumes from the refrig could seep up through the edge band?

I also would like to know how others have affixed the Dometic refrigerator to the floor - I did not remove the galley area do I could not keep a log of how things were installed as I took them out. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Atomic_13]

Hollie - Mark and I took a similar approach venting our freshwater tanks through a low point drain that passes through our subfloors. He discovered the need to install a shut off valve (I used a PEX toilet water shutoff valve) to prevent water from working its way out of the upper tank vent through the floor during travel. You’d only need to close the valve if you planned to travel with a full freshwater tank. Note I did not need to keep it closed with my tank ~25% full (for road side pit stops)

Here is a diagram of this area of my trailer.



See diagram box #9 for the valve in question. The air transfers through the floor (during tank filling) in the area diagram box #10 points to. Note you’d want to make a mental note to not drain or refill the tank with the valve in box #9 closed or you’ll create a vacuum and potentially could crack your freshwater tank.

Regarding your refrigerator vent, it’s a good idea to seal this off the best you can to allow the fumes from the propane combustion (used to vaporize your refrigerators working fluid) to rise through the vent and not into your trailer. It’s likely negligible and I can confirm this vent did not have an air tight junction at my countertop when I disassembled the galley in my ’68 Tradewind. Nevertheless, I’d do your best to minimize these fumes from entering your trailer (and make sure you have a CO and LP detector installed, regardless).

As far as methods to seal this up… I guess if the gap isn’t too large (sounds like it isn’t), I’d suggest using butyl tape. It does a good job of sticking to these types of surfaces but can also be removed if needed. Before installing the refrigerator simply install a bead of the tape between edge trim and the vent itself from underneath. I wouldn’t use a sealant that would be difficult to remove later since these vents tend to be (or become) quite brittle.

Lastly, I can’t speak to the Dometic refrigerator, but my isotherm unit’s face frame is attached to the cabinet face frame with screws. This appears to be sufficient over nearly 4000 miles of bumpy highway roads.

[steinVT]

Originally Posted by Flostream66

Question: is your gray tank vented and connected to the sink vent? Hollie

I should have been more precise. The vent I was talking about is your fresh water tank vent as shown in your post #64. My fresh tank runs fore-aft with the vent on the forward end. Your setup venting on the side shouldn't be as bad, but I would guess you will loose water on right turns.

Regarding grey tanks, I have two. One is vented thru the wall to the roof, and the other is vented to the ground. If I loose a little to ground I don't worry about it. I think your venting on then grey tank looks fine.

Regarding refrigerator mounting, on the Safari, I believe I bolted 1"x 4" to the "legs" then I was able to screw them directly to the floor. Hard to comment on the chimney as I'm not familiar with the layout. Does the propane exhaust go up the same route as the hot exhaust air? - Mark

[Atomic_13]

Mark, I believe the combustion fumes indeed take the same path out as the airflow behind the refrigerator.

Also, why you are working in this area, Hollie, I’d strongly consider adding a 12VDC computer fan (~0.2 amps) or two to help move more airflow up and out. I added one just below my wall vent/chimney (blowing upwards) and put a switch nearby. Makes a big difference on the ability of the refrigerator to stay cold.

[Flostream66]

Atomic_13 and Mark - thanks so much for the detailed photos and explanations. We vented the fresh water tank, so I think we are good there...but really appreciate the second set of eyes.

I also want to be sure that the edge trim I tacked onto the back of the countertop will be sufficient to prevent any unwanted heat or ammonia smell coming up from the back of the refrig. The PO had put a bead of silicone to cover the gap around the chimney - however, we made the countertop tighter by adding a strip of wood and then I affixed the edge trim over that - the seal, without the edge trim is really precise...but I am just wondering about the need to silicone it tight.

Atomic_13 - I am interested in the fan increasing the efficiency of the refrig. I've read others who say put them in, others who say you don't need one. I like the idea, so if you could point me toward the type of fan you have in mind, I would be grateful - Carl will be hardwiring the refrig, etc. this week, so now is the time to do this.

I just have one question - do you still have the fan going if you are boondocking? Or do you turn it off?

Again, thank you both for your most helpful input. H

[Argonaut20]

I mounted a new Dometic fridge so yours may be different, but the new one sits on the floor and is held in place by the screws through the face frame into the cabinet frame. No screws to the floor except the cabinet frame screwed to the floor.


As for the seal between the chimney and the counter top, the original had welt (like VTS-838) stapled to the counter top in the chimney area. Any kind of welt will do as long as it is large enough to form a seal - I used a welt made for upholstery. I have never had a problem with fumes from the fridge, either CO or ammonia, but one does need a CO/propane detector for safety. The fan is not a bad idea as it draws more air over the coils making the fridge more efficient. On the other hand, I have never had a problem with the fridge not being cold enough without a fan either on propane or AC. Keeping the refrigerator full (food, wine, beer, whatever) helps.

Silicone may not be a good idea between the counter top and the chimney because those areas flex and the chimney is (in my opinion) fragile and hard to replace if it breaks. Always leave a window or vent open a little when you camp.

[Flostream66]

Originally Posted by Argonaut20

I have never had a problem with the fridge not being cold enough without a fan either on propane or AC. Keeping the refrigerator full (food, wine, beer, whatever) helps.

Thanks, Argonaut20, for the input on the refrigerator and chimney install - you have affirmed that I am definitely on the right track. So, until I sort out the fan, I will take your counsel and keep my refrigerator well-stocked with wine and bubbly.

[Flostream66]

In the world of car collectors, a “restomod” represents a perfect mix old and new technology and design to create something "new" using the best of both worlds.

In Flo’s case, the galvanized metal surround which once housed the original, but rusted Hydro Flame furnace, has been retrofitted to house a new Olympic Wave 3 catalytic heater that is tucked behind the carefully restored original diamond grate cover. See Post #31. Because the Wave 3 heater is designed to be wall-mounted, this classic restomod was a relatively easy retrofit (well, if you discount all the scraping and sanding of the original painted finish on the cover grate...but time well-spent, I think).

[steinVT]

Originally Posted by Flostream66

We vented the fresh water tank, so I think we are good there...but really appreciate the second set of eyes.

I also want to be sure that the edge trim I tacked onto the back of the countertop will be sufficient to prevent any unwanted heat or ammonia smell coming up from the back of the refrig.

If I read the pictures correctly, the way you have vented the fresh water tank will allow fresh water to slosh out the vent when you make a right hand turn.

If you ever smell ammonia, you have a leak in your fridge. It is a sealed system. The only thing going up the stack will be heat off the coils and combustion gases when burning propane. I wouldn't worry too much about having a tight seal, just no large gaps. Also helps to have a fresh air vent under the rear of the fridge to provide cool fresh air. - Mark

[Flostream66]

Thanks, Mark. Carl and I discussed this yesterday when we saw your post - I will speak with him about it when we regroup tomorrow. I may PM you to button this up. Appreciate the second set of eyes...especially because my focus is on how much storage space I have in the front SS corner! hahaha!

[Atomic_13]

Regarding fans, I’d suggest using a 12VDC, 120mm computer fan. Some add two or three (very low amp draw) fans above the refrigerator. There are lots of good options made by Noctua, Corsair, Scythe, Nidec Servo (GentleTyphoon line), etc. These are commonly used in the gaming PC arena.

If you are going the single fan route (like i did) you are looking for a non-LED fan with high air flow (~70 CFM, 1800-2200 RPM), low noise (<30 dB), and a low amp draw (0.08A to 0.2A). Lots of options regarding turning it on or off. The simple approach is a switch mounted somewhere nearby in the trailer. Others get fancier with variable speed DC controllers (to regulate RPM/noise/airflow based on ventilation needs) or thermostats (on at temps above X degrees).

These fans in general don’t draw that much power and since I see a notable reduction in energy consumption in my 12VDC refrigerator (Danfoss compressor) I think what little energy they use is regained in refrigerator efficiency. Lots of details here: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f42...lly-11811.html