1975 Tradewind - Project "Jody"

[mousouchop]

Originally Posted by dbj216

Well, I stumbled on to your 75 Tradewind project thread. I'm glad I did. I renovated a 75 Overlander 27', which is only 2' longer than your trailer. Otherwise they are very similar in construction and floor layout.

You have made a lot of progress already since your "recovery mission" to bring the trailer to your place. There is a small chance I might be able to help out with this or that as you progress.

Here is a photo of my 75 Overlander. It is now a comfortable and reliable Airstream. I really enjoy traveling with it.

David

Thanks for dropping in and the kind words! I am so looking forward to traveling with this-- next year! I am in a good place RE: place to work and time to work. I have a 100% remote job (thanks to COVID for forcing the hand of my employer), and have been working from my family cabin; log off at 5, and head out to the barn for more "work" (is it really work? I enjoy my time in the AS. )

I started reading your 75 Overlander thread last night, and again this morning! After I complete this front part of the frame/subfloor, the next task will be removing the bath and taking care of business back there. It looks like you did a similar job on yours-- I am happy to see it looks like you can get all the bathroom bits out without uninstalling the bulkhead and bedroom furniture? Seems like you were able to work within the walls of the bathroom itself.

I am considering a composting toilet, over repairing or replacing the black tank (it has a nest of insulation in it... not sure the entry point, but I will not be putting anything into that tank until it is removed and tested outside the AS). Mostly want a CT as a "proof of concept", as I'd like to build a tiny house some day, and CT seems to reign supreme in that application. Might also reduce some weight on the back of the frame, which is part of the cause of rear frame separation, which I fortunately don't have, though I know the lower angle bracket in my bumper box is completely GONE; the upper angle is still entirely in tact.

The thought of carrying CT waste through the entirety of the camper is not attractive, though..... but I also feel like the bathroom window needs to be retro-fit with some kind of emergency exit/quick opening mechanism on the screen (for safety's sake). I don't know if anyone has done that, but it would certainly make cleaning a CT more straightforward; just pass the tanks to my partner out the window.

[dbj216]

Yes, our trailers are very similar in design and construction. And the both have a lot of laminated plastic in them. You are on the right track by closely examining your trailer as you "clean" it and make a list of all its needs. It becomes a rather long list of "fun" in your barn.

My rear cross member was very rusted also. And my trailer had rear end separation defined as the rear of the body is no longer firmly attached to the frame via the rear cross member. My bolts were rusted and the plywood floor was rotted. Do the "bumper bounce test" on your trailer. Stand on the rear bumper directly over the frame rail. Bounce up and down like you were on a diving board. Look closely at the joint between the body and the frame rail while doing this. If a gap opens up, it means rear end separation. It isn't the end of the world and can be repaired. I did so on mine.

Here is a photo of my rear end separation gap. In the not too distant future be prepared to jack the trailer up and remove the axles and belly pan. Rake out all the old smelly insulation. And now you can see your frame clearly.

I no nothing about composting toilets. I think of them as being a litter box for humans. Urine goes one way, solids the other. Venting is important. And if you spilled the container on the significant other passing it out the window, you would have hell to pay. Flush toilets make a lot more sense to me.

Be gentle with your bath plastics as they are old and prone to cracking. The tub is fiberglass and is stronger. Or maybe you will build an entirely new bath. Yes, the parts will fit through the bulkhead walls and out the entry door.

Go have "fun"

David

[mousouchop]

Been a minute since I posted. I have not been doing nothing! Just nothing that photographs well… but I thought I’d update, as I have a question or two.

For those of you still using your original wiring— how do you audit the wiring for overall safety? Lets face it— not everyone has the time/money/desire/reason to take out all of the furniture, all of the inner skins, and rip out and replace all of the original wiring. The way I see it is, people buy 150+ year old homes, and don’t always gut them to inspect every last wire and fixture (perhaps an inspector does this, though?)— so why is it different here, if you have reason to believe that things are OK?

My friend takes his 1975 Sovereign on yearly trips to the sum of thousands of miles a year and all seems well with his stock/original wiring…

That being said, I am doing a moderately invasive restoration, and have already gone about replacing my old style 120V AC breaker box, 12V DC Fuse Panel and old “humming” 12V converter with a modern all-in-one (more on that on next question). So, I have modernized the root of my electrical system, and that feels like a “safe” upgrade. But, I realize that every inch of wire can potential carry a hidden issue…….

That being said, I have been going through, inside and out, and touching, debugging and fixing every 12V fixture. At this point, the only two inside fixtures not “fixed” are the reading lights over the front couch. The curbside one, I discovered last weekend, had burned (or chewed, or both?) wires on the fixture, the positive wires connecting the fixture’s switch to the fixture’s light socket. The circuit positive wire (brown circuit, in my rig) is LIVE at this fixture testing with multimeter, and seemingly undamaged— good sign? Maybe… The feed comes from the Scare light and Step light, both of which are operational after some fixing last weekend with contact cleaner, and rebuilding the socket on the step light with new parts.

The brown circuit continues in the overhead compartment over the windows/couch and connects to the street side reading lamp. That positive wire, after removing the offending fixture on curbside, is still testing dead. No voltage registered on my multimeter… The brown circuit wire at both fixtures has a lot of slack. I was able to pull out 2-3 ft at head point and audit, and the wiring looks great… but, obviously something is amiss. Now— I could just re-run a feed from the live curbside endpoint over to the street side— but for safety (and my own sanity), I need to debug why the curbside fixture failed as it did (I assume chewing led to burning)— and also to debug why the street side is dead. I can’t just replace and ignore. Or I can? So long as I monitor and audit for quite some time?

I do plan to drop the center ceiling panel, which will additionally let me audit a lot more of the 12V feeds, as the main electrical harness travels here. So, the only wires I won’t have my eyes on, are the 2-3 feet of wire for the drops from the ceiling run, to the fixtures themselves. So, this gives me some comfort— I will be doing this by EO September.

RE: the new all-in-one question. I haven’t yet connected the 120V circuits (just the main 30A in breaker for the converter’s sake). The “problem” here is that the 120V circuit wires are about 6 inches shy of giving me enough slack to actually route into the new breaker box and insert into breakers…. I realize it is not ideal— but is it “safe” to add a 1 or 2 foot extension on each of these circuits in the closet in order to get enough slack to make it into the breaker box? I am in a “holding pattern” on this idea, as I have to take out the lower skin in this closet in order to do subfloor work back there. I am hopeful that with the panel down, I can reroute the wires inside the wall slightly, and make up the slack I need to wire into the box without extensions.

I am installing new marker lights this weekend, and will post progress pictures of all this electrical work in the next week or so! Exciting stuff! It looks “alive” now that I have everything lit up. Replacing all lights with LEDs as I go along, so it is zero heat operation, too.

[dbj216]

Well, I'm not a trained and licensed electrician. But I do know a 120v circuit has many "junctions" to this outlet, that light fixture, etc. Each junction is in a junction box. I use tight wire nuts and then tape them to hold them tight inside the junction box.

So I feel you can add a junction box and add additional length of cable you need. Let others chime in to confirm or correct if you will.

I have a 120v "circuit tester" I got at the hardware store. It simply detects any ground faults or neutral wire problems with indicator lights. I plug it in to every outlet to test the circuit. It builds my confidence I installed that new outlet correctly.

David

[mousouchop]

Duh— junction box is of course what would have been used to extend. It just sounds so much more mundane, and less insidious, when phrased as such. I suppose an extension to give me room to work isn’t out of the question, then.

I think the only one I might rerun is the AC 120V, if I can. I’d prefer a big draw like that be a direct line. I think all other areas would be impossible to fish to location. So, I will have to see what the wire looks like, and then conduct tests as you’ve described.

We’ve got a family friend that is a contractor who hunts from this property with us every November. So, I suppose I can bribe him for second opinion on the state of things, too…

I think I will know a heck of a lot more when I get the center ceiling panel down. 80% of the wiring I’m concerned about is run down that avenue.

[mousouchop]

Forgot to update on the 12V…

I found the source of the reading light issues. Well, sort of. The brown circuit feeds all fixtures in the hitch end of my rig. I forgot I have the MaxxAir fan just dry fit there. Lifting it out of its cutout, I could see a number of 12V circuits. And looky there… a brown line shorted/completely severed. I cut off the bad end on presumed hot end and capped. I clipped bad off severed length which is now dead, running to street side reading light. I did a continuity test to confirm that this orphaned run was in fact the one.

While in that cavity, I was also remembered that I removed and capped two brown circuit fixtures a while back. The vent fan and light fixture (will be running new line for new fixtures, MaxxAir and accent lights). But, I’m not opposed to using the fan feed to run a new length to fish to the streetside light.

The remainder of the old line isn’t long enough to work with…

Debugged the running and taillights. Actually, removed my marker lights, as I bought replacements. While debugging the tail lights, I realized half the lenses were just shards held together by dirt. There are two unique lenses, back there, and I have an unblemished example of each… started that process today, but ran out of silicone. These lenses are discontinued/OOS/NLA everywhere. I plan to make “smoke” colored lenses to match my running lights.

[dbj216]

Good job on digging in and finding the problem, and then finding a solution. That is the whole work strategy with a vintage Airstream. When you are ready for your Tradewind maiden voyage, you will know every circuit, the plumbing, the appliances, the whole trailer. There won't be anything you can't fix on the road.

David

[mousouchop]

Yeah— I do intend to rebuild the plumbing, too. When I bought this rig, did I expect/plan to rebuild plumbing? Eh, no. But I don’t begrudge any of the work required. I’d rather have it new, and installed by me, so I know how and where to troubleshoot in the future. I am keeping the stock drainage lines, unless I find issues. But incoming water will all be PEX.

The wiring, I will run net-new lines for net-new fixtures, all the way from the DC fuse panel. However, I am debugging stock fixtures and stock lines as well, as you can tell from my posts.

Between all the above, I should know most all systems inside and out, and be ready for anything!

I fished a new brown circuit line for the street side reading light yesterday. Also refurbed the two reading lights and got them both working. Have proper 1383 LED lights on order; just tested with 1156 lights to confirm success.

[dbj216]

I've got those same style reading lights in my 75 Overlander. Both of mine worked when I bought the trailer so I didn't need to take them apart.

David

[mousouchop]

I spent the last weekend entertaining family at my seasonal campsite, so not much progress…. We had a great time enjoying some of the final days of the summer! Hoping next year I am doing so in my Airstream.

But— I did get more molding silicone to finish my lens mold, and even had time to cast a (rushed and flawed) sample lens. The test casting makes me believe my mold is good, and now I can make another test cast or two to work on color, and getting rid of voids and bubbles. I think the voiding is mostly due to the hurried pouring. But, this is also the biggest object I’ve attempted to duplicate, so I might have some new tricks to learn to reduce voids in an item this size. Perhaps I just didn’t have the pressure high enough in my pressure pot.

I got some grey alcohol ink on the way, which I hope will get me my desired “smoked” lens look. But, I am sure there will be a trial and error phase to get it right. The other hurtle is that I need 4 separate castings to be reasonably the same color… this may be tricky, but maybe not! Depends on the ink and how potent it is (only have experience with resin dyes).

Thereafter, I will be casting replacement knobs for my window levers, and some other odds and ends like the end caps for the belt line trim, and other “irreplaceable” bits around a 1970s Airstream.

[AldeanFan]

I’d like to hear more about your process for making lenses, I’m sure this could be useful for all sorts of items.

[mousouchop]

Originally Posted by AldeanFan

I’d like to hear more about your process for making lenses, I’m sure this could be useful for all sorts of items.

Sure! I am a novice resin caster. I got into it late last year to make “artisan keycaps” for my keyboard. (See colorful keycaps on my board)

I started with Alumalite products, and they have treated me well, so I keep using them.

The silicone molds are made using their “Amazing Mold Maker”. An object with details on both/multiple sides will often require a two part mold. So, I build a small box around the object (using foam board and hot glue). The base of the box is always non-drying clay, which allows a tight seal again the bottom of the object to get the right shape. Also seals off the bottom of the box to prevent silicone from leaking out before it sets.

Once the first side is set, you break the box from around the first part of the mold, flip the mold and rebuild the box with the object facing up. Here you want to glue on dowels or similar to create “sprues” in the top mold. These allow for air and voids to escape during resin casting. You can also inject resin into the sprues.

Spray some silicone release (brand Stoner) to prevent part two of the mold from fusing to part one. Then pour the second part and let it set. At this point you separate the two parts, and remove the original/master object, to reveal the completed two part mold.

I converted a paint pressure sprayer pot to a pressure pot for cutting both the silicone molds, and the resin castings. The pressure pushes out bubbles and voids through the sprues in the molds. I keep resin under pressure for the first hour of curing.

Pictures in chronological order.

[rugjenkins]

I too am fascinated by your mold process. Thank you for the documented mold process. Subscribed to the thread looking for to seeing the rest of your build.

[dbj216]

Very good. This is the first I have heard of anyone making replacement lenses. The next thing you know you will be 3D printing Airstream parts. I hear tell that is done for antique car parts.

David

[AldeanFan]

Wow that’s great, thanks for the details!

[mousouchop]

Wondering if anyone has input on this… I am auditing as much original internal wiring as I can see from the center ceiling panel (dropping that soon for this task). As a further “safeguard” for electrical usage when the rig is unattended, I will run one net-new AC line to power my new AC/DC fridge, and an AC dehumidifier.

So, basically, when I leave the rig unattended, I can at least be assured my food is fresh, and my trailer is not humid/damp, by leaving just the main breaker (30A in feed) and the net-new 15A line/breaker on. The rest of the 120V breakers, including the breaker to the DC converter, and thus all attached 12V lines (many original from 1975) will be dormant when I am away (further ensured by a battery shut off switch, yet to be bought/installed). Seems reasonable and safe…

My question is, given these specs on the Dometic CRX 140S…. It seems that the fridge uses only 1A for operation at 120V (and < 8A at 12V). Am I reading this correctly?

Thinking this means my net-new 120V line can use a 15A breaker, and not a 20A. I don’t expect a dehumidifier will use 14+ amps, though I will shop for one first to confirm. This also means I won’t overdraw on a 15A line when plugged in via a dog bone at home. Again, seems like a safe approach for unattended electrical hookup.

The 30A in feed will be a new SmartPlug + cord. So, all wiring used while I am away will be brand spanking new. I already have a new all-in-one AC/DC/Converter box (PD4045).

I use my current camper, and soon the AS, as a “summer home” at a seasonal campground. So, I would leave the 30A in feed and 15A net-new line on M-F to keep stuff cool and dry while I’m back home for the week.

[mousouchop]

Well, made a big step forward yesterday. I usually do my tinkering solo, but dropping the ceiling is at least a two person affair, with the help of a couple of stands that we made to help. I suspect putting it back up will be a 3-4 guy job.

Anyway— I wanted to drop the ceiling center panel for three reasons. One, the rodent remnants I found in the AC on removal, as well as the hints I saw around each vent opening meant I wanted to pull as much insulation as I could, and clean and replace.

Two, I want to audit the existing wiring. After a quick cursory glance yesterday, I think I am in pretty good shape. The biggest problems seem to have been on the brown circuit, which I’d already mostly debugged. Anyway, I still need to do a thorough check and cleaning of things. This is the state after sweeping, vacuuming and blowing out the ceiling. It wasn’t fun, but certainly glad I did it.

Third, I am installing a couple of replacement circuits, and a few net new circuits… I’ll list them here.

120V
- Rerun AC run. This is short and easy access, and a high draw item. So, makes sense.
- 15 or 20A new run for running AC/DC fridge and dehumidifier
- While not a new circuit, I will replace all outlets with a modern version with USB and USB-C included

12V
Net new runs:
Bedroom- For MaxxAir fan, rope light, and puck light installations
Kitchen 1- For MaxxAir fan, and rope light install
Living room- For MaxxAir fan and rope light install
Kitchen 2- 30A line dropped to galley for potential use in the future for 12V services.
AC- 30A line to AC area, in case I decide on a 12V model someday. In the meantime, can be thermostat power

Will install rope lights on dimmer switches, which arrive today. Also need to find USB/USB-C 12V outlets I like, to add here and there. I got some new marker lights that are just for poaching the LED panels from, for retrofitting into some fixtures. Have an idea for a way to make some “stock” lights for replacing broken and yellowed bathroom light…

Also cast a second test lens. It ain’t perfect, but it’s progress! I used a different resin, which clearly will have a learning curve. This new dye should get me a smoked lens, though this is a tad light.

[dbj216]

I've never dropped the ceiling panel. But I know a lot of wiring goes up there. You are wise to do so since you find evidence of mice up there, even though it is a hard job. As you said, mice chew wire insulation just for something irritating to do.

Press on, you will have a great mobile vacation home when done.

David

[steve46]

You are making great headway. On the shell off rebuild of our ‘76 Trade Wind, I stripped out everything inside and once that was done I power washed the entire inside of the shell, taking care to not saturate the AC outlets, and then let it all dry for a long time.

I had made the observation that almost all of the original wiring was fine and useable, so I decided to leave it in place and avoid rewiring, which to me would have been a huge job. Once it was all dry, I tested the circuits/outlets and got lucky—the original AC circuits and most of the DC circuits were fine. I did add one AC circuit through the walls on the curbside.

I will say that the removal of the center ceiling panel is a challenge and reinstalling it is an even bigger task. The long curved panels just below the ceiling panel are also quite a job to get back into place—a couple of teenaged young men makes this much easier. Take care to not bend these three long panels as they are unwieldy to handle and do bend easily—don’t ask me how I know that.

The wiring running through the ceiling is a real maze and for me prompted a lot of cogitating and head scratching to make it all logical and workable. Fortunately the DC circuits were all different colored wires and I had spray painted the AC circuitry so I could follow each circuit from end to end.

While I hadn’t initially intended to switch to LED bulbs inside, I did make this change because I experienced blowing many 12 volt fuses. I am happy to have made this upgrade.

Good luck from here—your approach makes sense to me. Nice lenses you are building! I’ve included a few photos of my ceiling electrical area.

[mousouchop]

Originally Posted by steve46

You are making great headway. On the shell off rebuild of our ‘76 Trade Wind, I stripped out everything inside and once that was done I power washed the entire inside of the shell, taking care to not saturate the AC outlets, and then let it all dry for a long time.



I had made the observation that almost all of the original wiring was fine and useable, so I decided to leave it in place and avoid rewiring, which to me would have been a huge job. Once it was all dry, I tested the circuits/outlets and got lucky—the original AC circuits and most of the DC circuits were fine. I did add one AC circuit through the walls on the curbside.



I will say that the removal of the center ceiling panel is a challenge and reinstalling it is an even bigger task. The long curved panels just below the ceiling panel are also quite a job to get back into place—a couple of teenaged young men makes this much easier. Take care to not bend these three long panels as they are unwieldy to handle and do bend easily—don’t ask me how I know that.



The wiring running through the ceiling is a real maze and for me prompted a lot of cogitating and head scratching to make it all logical and workable. Fortunately the DC circuits were all different colored wires and I had spray painted the AC circuitry so I could follow each circuit from end to end.



While I hadn’t initially intended to switch to LED bulbs inside, I did make this change because I experienced blowing many 12 volt fuses. I am happy to have made this upgrade.



Good luck from here—your approach makes sense to me. Nice lenses you are building! I’ve included a few photos of my ceiling electrical area.

Thanks for the comments. I do not plan to take out anymore furniture/panels. So, the challenging curved panels you mention, are staying where they are.

Is there still rodent remnants back there somewhere? Undoubtedly. But, life ain’t perfect, and I just don’t see me staying on time for camping next year if I start tearing this thing apart that much. My view is— one moves into a 150 year old house and doesn’t gut every wall to check every wire and reinsulate; you just “trust” things were done right, and remain in tact. And you ignore anything that visitors may have left behind…. From what I’ve seen in the ceiling, and the lower panels I opened up front, I don’t think the intrusion was too bad, so I think I’ve covered my bases by at least dropping the ceiling to inspect the wiring. Like you, I deem it perfectly serviceable.

I see you used Reflectix on the curved portions to insulate. Did you layer up? Use anything to create a gap between layers? What did you use to insulate the center run with all the vents and wiring? The same?