Atomic's 1968 Tradewind Twin Renovation

[Slats]

What a great trip. The U.P. has long been on my list of places to go. Glad it all went well for you and your family.

[TouringDan]

Brian- Glad that you had a great trip to Michigan. I grew up there and graduated with an engineering degree in 69.

I am surprised that we didn’t run into each other as we recently returned from a 3 week trip there. Some of our stops were Indiana Dunes NP, Manistee SP, Brimley SP.

Dan

[Atomic_13]

Dan - we kept an eye out for airstreams and enjoyed several waves, thumbs up, and other friendly gestures. We saw several that were mostly newer models but nevertheless looked amazing rolling down the road. Being a vintage owner we were particularly excited when we camped next to a ’63 Tradewind at Baraga State Park and noticed an early 60’s Bambi in Traverse City. Regrettably, we never did see your adventure rig. Kayaks are on our short list so I would have definitely noticed you.

Jerry - the kids did indeed enjoy the comfort of the cab. [emoji4] As did our 15-year-old (blind) cocker spaniel. I had missed your post about the walnut shell blaster and am glad to hear it worked well. When I check off the “mission critical” tasks and free time for aesthetic improvements I’ll have to check yours out.

We took a side trip to see some family in Southeast Kansas this past weekend. We took our first stab at boondocking to avoid hotels. All went well. Being a family who has a hard time passing up historic places we took a side trip to drive our Tradewind over the last standing single-span concrete Marsh arch bridge on Route 66 (just west of Riverton, KS). It was built in 1923 and is now listed as a historic site.





Regarding our Overlander, it’s still definitely on the list of things we will do. We have decided to use our Tradewind for a while before starting a new renovation. We are already learning more about what we like (most everything) and don’t like (only a few downsides) about the Tradewind. Using the Tradewind will definitely inform our Overlander renovation.

As for what’s left to do on the Tradewind, we need to:

1. Finish upholstering the curved cushions for the dinette.

2. Explore options to transfer waste water between the trailer and dump station (if we don’t want to move the trailer). With 5 people on board, our 52 gallons of grey water storage lasted about 3 days if everyone showered daily plus other water use (dishes, etc). Not bad, but a few sites were a real pain to park in so I’m weighing the relative merits of a 20-30 gallon blue boy versus using a 12VDC macerator pump, hose and collapsible bladder or tank.

3. I recently purchased a generator (Champion dual fuel 3400W) for periods of cloudy weather and sustained AC use in hot climates. I could have certainly opted for a smaller unit (2200W) but decided the extra weight was worth the ability to use a larger generator at home during power outages (which are not uncommon in tornado alley). I’m wondering if it’s worthwhile keeping the genset in the truck bed (while on the road) and installing some sort of wire passthrough so I can keep it locked up at night but running with the truck cap windows open… Might not be needed don’t know… curious what other generator owners do.

4. Also on the short list a 300-400W solar panel expansion. Given their flexibility, I’m leaning toward these being a solar suitcase in the yard rather than truck cap mounted but I do really like Dan’s set up. From my Michigan trip, I learned that most state parks have limited parking options/space for the truck whereas a suitcase would have more placement options (but at higher risk of theft). Of course, we had electrical hook ups so that might not be a concern.

5. Lastly, now that we’ve got the trailer useable, we’ll turn our attention to optional items like bikes and kayaks. I’ve reserved space for two bikes behind my LP tanks and our yet to be purchased kayaks will travel on top of the truck.

If I’m honest, I’m glad I still have some work to do… [emoji4]

[TouringDan]

Brian- Nice photos of your Tradewind on the concrete arch bridge. I would like to see that some day.

I like the 400 watts of solar on the truck cap, but they don’t work to well when you are carrying a couple of kayaks on the truck. It is hard to beat the flexibility of portable solar panels.

Nothing like doing some camping to find out things that need to be tweaked or figure out more improvements to make the camping experience better.

Dan

[docflyboy]

Brian- Glad to see it's all working out well. I'll bring the Caravel to the Roasterie later this month, and you can see how the windows turned out. I just got some Acryl-R to finish the corners.

I think you could get an exhaust extension for your genset and route an exhaust through the floor of your bed and run a side pipe beside your exhaust.

My alternate TV is a 170" Sprinter that has a 7K diesel genset permanently installed that was in it when I bought it from WaterOne. It has the exhaust done by professionals and I'll pull the Caravel with it to the Roasterie event for you to see. The prob with the genset will be giving up a certain piece of real estate in the bed of your truck on an ongoing basis.

Enjoy the fam, they grow up quickly and get busy. My son and I will head out to Colorado in the '05 Safari this weekend. See you soon. Jerry

[Hittenstiehl]

That black & white is gorgeous. Definitely print advertising worthy.

[steinVT]

Looks like a fabulous trip. Its a great feeling to actually use the things that you spent so much time thinking about and then building with your own hands.

Originally Posted by Atomic_13

If I’m honest, I’m glad I still have some work to do… [emoji4]

Too funny, I know the feeling. My guess is planning on the Overlander has already begun and demolition won't be too far behind. There is a very strong draw to reuse the tools and techniques you developed on your first project.

Looking forward to following along on that one too. - Mark

[Atomic_13]

Jerry - I’m looking forward to our annual fall meetup at the Roasterie. It’s always a treat to see the trailers, their progress, and even their owners. [emoji4] Do we have a date set? I don’t recall seeing anything for this fall but my spam filter could be keeping me “out of the know”.

Also, I’d really enjoy seeing your sprinter. At some point I could see my wife and I enjoying traveling in that type of setup (e.g. Alaska, etc). For now the genset would only be in the truck during camping trips so perhaps I should reconsider going with my original plan to mount it on the trailer tongue and stow the gravel bikes on the receiver hitch I welded on the trailer’s bumper. That would simplify the LP line runs and negate the concerns about exhaust build up under the truck bed cap.

Of course in a campground, I’d be nearby and only run it in daytime so running it in the open truck bed isn’t a concern. Overnight use would be limited to boondocking in warm climates for the AC. In the event of rain (or theft concerns - think parking lots) this is where overnight shelter and security of the genset are respectively a concern for me.

Mark - I 100% agree about the draw to continue to use our renovation skills and tools. Undoubtedly, this is why so many don’t just stop at one renovation. It’s been great to follow everyone’s renovation(s) and empathize with their aluminitis. They are truly inspirational and I can’t wait to dive into the renovation of my Overlander.

At present the Overlander’s interior has been mostly dismantled by the previous owner. I’m optimistic I have all the pieces and parts to use as templates. Unlike my Tradewind, which as a smaller trailer was ironically designed for four, I’m making plans for the 2’ longer Overlander to be a palace for two, with only an occasional addition of two additional occupants. We would prefer to minimize nightly furniture setup/reconfigurations. Given my dismally slow renovation pace, I may have grandchildren by the time this second trailer is completed, which could create a welcomed wrinkle in my presently polished plans.

It has a gaucho (couch, not a cowboy) up front and regular size bed mid-ship on the street side. I plan to install two twins mid-ship to avoid the need to setup beds each evening. While a front dinette is nice for a group, I’m thinking my wife and I may enjoy/use a couch for relaxing more often. Alternatively, I’ve been intrigued by those who remarkably squeeze in a pair of recliners up front, but with a 7’ narrow body that might be tight. Of course with a handsome gaucho up front my wife may not object.

[docflyboy]

Brian- my understanding it it's the 26th at the Roasterie. I told a guy around Springfield that just got his grandfather's Caravel about it and he's going to try to come. I don't know all the folks in KC who are restorers, but please reach out. Slats said we could handle anything less than 20 trailers. Jerry

[Atomic_13]

Thanks, Jerry. Dale and I chatted via text and I’m up to speed. Looking forward to seeing you all at the Roasterie on 9/26 at 1000.

Our inverter generator arrived yesterday. Opted for the Champion 3400W dual fuel, electric start. Paid $1080. If I were patient the price may have dropped further. Going to run it on propane. Added some break in oil and a magnetic dipstick. Needs to be ran at variable but mainly idle speed for 5 hours before an oil change and full use.

The airstream would have been fine with the Honda 2200 but the Champion will support our critical items at the house, is only 1 decibel louder, and is the same price (actually cheaper since it's already propane ready).

We hope to camp off grid at 8000-10,000 in elevation. I'm reading that gensets lose quite a bit of power up high, especially on propane.

Our lithium batteries and converter can charge at 120A. Should only take 2.7 hours for my 400Ah bank to go from 20% to 100%. Presumably the Champion will support this at a quieter idle speed than the smaller Honda 2200.

I'm hopeful we will not need to use it except for multi-hour off grid AC use or during a long stretch of cloudy days. The Champion is about 95#s so it's 35#s lighter than Honda's 3000w but 50#s heavier than their 2200w. It has wheels which helps during transport.

Considered Harbor Freight's Predator. It's gaining support but doesn't have the long term support/reviews that the Champion has. Users report it is slightly louder than the Champion. Specs say otherwise. Would have saved me $300.

Pretty confident we made the right choice for our intended use. Time will tell.

[dbj216]

I bought a used Honda 3000 several years ago. Paid more than yours was new.
The is too heavy at 130 pounds for me to deadlift into the truck, so I have wheels on it and a ramp. The Honda works, but doesn't have enough ump to start the AC on a hot day. I shut all electrical off and set the AC on warmest setting, low cool and eventually I can get it to run. Then the Honda will keep it going okay. I should install a smart start on the AC. I believe it is loss of engine power at altitude is the reason. There is about 25% less oxygen up here. Wheeze, wheeze, wheeze

David

[Atomic_13]

David - I note that the owners manual of my Champion 3400 dual fuel generator references the availability of a high altitude (>3500') carburetor main jet which improves the air/fuel mixture for those consistently operating the genset at elevations. They do not recommend using this alternative carb jet at lower elevation. Perhaps your Honda 3000 has one available which may improve its performance. For example:

http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf

So, if you come and visit us KC airstream restorers we'll have to swap generators. [emoji4]

In looking into this further, it's quite surprising how altitude impacts the operational efficiency of generators. This curve is for Honda's which seem similar to what Champion reports (3.5% output reduction for every 1000' of elevation ascended).



I'm thankful I opted for the 3400W unit, given my intentions of spending time up high in the beautiful state of Colorado and its neighboring states. Of note, using LP as the fuel source further reduces power. My genset produces 3400W of starting power and 3100W of running power on gasoline but 3060W of starting power and 2790W of running power on propane. At 8,000' on LPG this equates to a running power of 2009W (see table below).

[dbj216]

Hi Atomic: I considered a high altitude jet for my Honda generator but it didn't look like a job I could do easily. There is a lot of mechanics in that small generator case.

2000 watts is enough to charge your big battery pack and run an appliance. Luckily you won't need a air conditioner at 10k feet, at least at night. But the Colorado sun is a huge nuclear heat lamp during the day. You can just sit down in your trout stream and cool off a bit.

David

[Atomic_13]

I fielded a question about how my freshwater tank was vented on a separate thread and created the diagram below. To help others reading this thread later, I wanted to post it here as well.

[Flostream66]

Hi all! I am the beneficiary of this incredibly helpful diagram...thank you, Brian! Upon seeing the attention to detail, I decided I needed to peruse your build thread...I had no idea my lowly little Caravel had been visited by restoration royalty! Your restoration is truly masterful...suddenly, I am dreaming of a bigger trailer so that I can have the mini fireplace-heater and a map corkboard to hide all the mechanicals I will need help deciphering!!! Seriously superb craftsmanship, Brian! Hollie

[dbj216]

I'll second that! David

[Atomic_13]

In preparation for a small AirForums meet up and a Colorado fly fishing trip (will describe later) I needed to check off a few airstream repairs. Those included replacing my water pump, adding a water line accumulator tank, fixing a leaking toilet (SeaLand 2010), and replacing my manual jack on the A frame with an electric jack (Husky Brute 4500). If any of these are of interest to you, read on.

For starters, my water pump was 16 years old and was periodically demonstrating symptoms of failure (e.g. occasionally not pressurizing the lines as expected). As a result, I replaced the old ShurFlo 2088 with a new 4008-101-E65 (Revolution model). It’s considerably more quiet than the old pump and the line pressure was notably increased in the system. In fact, so much so my check valve on my fresh water inlet now leaks. Hopefully it’s just some stuck debris. Guess my to do list traded one problem for another.

In addition to the new pump, I opted to install a water line accumulator tank (ShurFlo 182-200) which reportedly helps further reduce noise from water line hammering/vibration and reduces rapid pump cycling which is thought to prolong pump life. Once I received both products, the informational materials indicated an accumulator was unnecessary for this specific water pump. Since I already had the tank and the system disassembled, I figured it couldn’t hurt to install it anyways (let me know if you think otherwise). Note the schrader valve on the accumulator tank air badder is installed upwards. This evidently is helpful during winterization, allowing water to drain from the tank when blowing out the water lines. Here is a photo of the final install:



On to the toilet. On prior trips, we noted we had a small leak if the toilet user leaned off center then flushed. I originally blamed it on our kids’ presumably flamboyant wiping style but alas had to concede it was my install error once my gentle toilet use resulted in stinky wet feet as well.

What ended up being the problem was the flooring was installed (by me, ahem) nearly adjacent to the toilet flange. On my toilet model (SeaLand 2010) the outer most rim on the toilet base needs to be able to drop lower than the height of the flange/finished floor to adequately compress a foam gasket that seals the toilet to the flange. To correct the issue, I marked the finished flooring just outside the toilet base, removed the toilet and flooring and trimmed back the excess so the toilet base now sits on the top of the subfloor, 1/4” further below the flange/finished floor height. I was glad to remove the LVT to ensure water from the prior leak hadn’t caused a problem to the subfloor. Fortunately, it had not and all was dry. Lastly, the vacuum breaker assembly on the back of the toilet had a very slow drip. I’m unsure what caused this. Perhaps water froze/cracked in the assembly over winter, despite my best intentions to clear the lines last fall. I’ve also read hard water deposits can cause malfunction / micro cracks as well. With both repairs done, I’m back in business with clean and dry feet once more.

Lastly, the gears on the manual A frame jack were skipping, so it was only a matter of time for it to inconveniently fail on a trip. This was a good opportunity to upgrade to an electric jack, so I opted to install a Husky Brute 4500. I was originally resistant to an electric jack but after experiencing all the jack cranking necessary to connect sway bars, I gave in. Additionally, I was pleased that the manual override (tool provided by Husky) was quite easy to use in the event of battery failure.



Many have written about the quality of these jacks and also reported ways to install them so their tailgate will fully open without obstruction from the jack’s robust and obtrusive upper motor assembly. Some have drilled new holes in the frame to mount the jack motor sideways. This appears to be a good solution if a trailer has a cover over the LP tanks. The three hole mounting base allows for rotations of either 60 or 120 degrees if the original holes are used, but not 90 degrees for sideways installation. Preferring not to drill additional holes in a structurally important part of the frame, I disassembled the jack and rotated the ball screw shaft 180 degrees (by simply removing the shaft pin, see red arrow in photo below, yellow arrow points to a cotter pin that need removed/reinstalled).



This allowed me to keep the three hole mounting plate in the original position but rotated the motor assembly 180 degrees, now facing aft and out of the way of the opened tailgate. The three LED lights on the jack housing are easily repositioned with pliers. With my blue ox hitch I have ~10” of tailgate clearance and with a standard drop hitch I have about 0.5 to 1” of clearance. If it help, my tow vehicle is a 2019 F250, my hitch is a weigh safe brand, 2.5” receiver, 8” drop, and I installed a bull dog collar type coupler (which are a bit longer than the OEM Demco couplers found on most Airstreams) when I welded my new frame.

The last order of business was routing an appropriately sized wire (#8 in my case to avoid excessive voltage drop) from the 12VDC distribution panel to the jack motor. Make note that it might be easier or preferred to connect this directly to the + battery terminal and use the supplied 30A resettable breaker. I opted to tap into my fuse panel since it was rated for a 30A blade fuse and was closer to the jack than my battery. I also like having the jack powerless (an additional theft deterrent) if my master kill switch is off during storage. Of course the manual override is still operational if one knows where motor override latch is on the side of the motor housing and can find the manual crank tool. Note that it’s important to use the provided star washers that cut down to bare metal since the jack is self grounded (i.e. a negative wire isn’t home run to the battery or 12VDC distribution panel).

And with those repairs behind me I was off to see some amazing friends and their equally impressive trailers. The Colorado fly fishing trip will be later this summer. Tight lines, my Airstream friends.

[Atomic_13]

A few months back Flostream66 indicated that she’d be passing through the KC area with her ‘66 Caravel. DocFlyBoy and I arranged a two night stay at Weston Bend State Park in northwest Missouri. I’ll spare you the details but would like to note that it was a great visit full of trailer tours, excellent food, wine, and company. At camp and during a brief field trip we were able to see the following trailers:

Flostream66’s (Hollie) ‘66 Caravel


DocFlyBoy’s (Jerry and Cari) ‘66 Caravel, ‘68 Safari, and his newer ‘05


Burnzee’s (Brian) ‘66 Safari


And my (Atomic_13, Brian and Jessica) ‘68 Tradewind


The quality of work done by these restorers is amazing. They all should be very proud of their trailers.

Also, we enjoyed the company of Coloradoup (Mike and Joey, ‘66 Tradewind in progress) and Slats (Dale and Terry, another ‘66 Tradewind in progress). I appreciate these four coming up for an evening to talk vintage airstreams.

I found out later that an early ‘60s Overlander I noted in the campground (before our gathering) belonged to one of the Airparts, Inc owners. It’s a beauty as well.


I hope to see you all down the road again. Thanks for the great memories.

[dbj216]

Greetings Atomic 13: Great to hear from you. Also great you and the KC boys arranged a neat gathering for Florstream. A mini vintage rally of a special kind.

I enjoyed reading about the tongue jack modification you did to clear the tailgate on your truck. I have the same interference problem and will look and see if I can do the same trick.

I worked on my son's 69 Globe Trotter most of the winter. It gave me something enjoyable to do, and he seems to like it. I converted it to rear bed (twin) and a small "powder room" on the street side. It is a functional layout, but not the roomiest one in the campground. The trailer sleeps three comfortably.

Best,

David

[Atomic_13]

Hi David - great to hear from you as well. I’ve not had the opportunity to read the forums or do much of anything related to airstreams this year. I’m a pharmacist and have been volunteering most of my free time to administer COVID vaccinations.

Your Globe Trotter modification sounds like a smart and functional improvement. I’m confident your son is quite happy with your work. I’d love to see a picture of your (always impressive) handiwork if you have some that you can share.

Our mini vintage meetup was a lot of fun. Seeing all the smaller trailers (safaris and caravels) make me seriously consider chopping down my ‘68 Overlander to a tandem axle Safari. As you may recall I’ve practice this Airstream shortening maneuver before. Perhaps I’d call it an Overlanderette. Losing four feet would open up those illusive and older national park campgrounds to my wife and me. I still very much appreciate the security of four wheels over two while towing. It would be a trailer for a couple only. If others are along we’d bring the Tradewind. Perhaps as a family caravan.