1968 Tradewind: rearranging the interior: rear bed / bath

[IndyAnne]

I have a 1968 Trade Wind, twin model. The front has twin extending gauchos with a dinette table between. Another gaucho is in the center over the curb side wheel well, opposite all of the kitchen appliances.

Rear bath has been ripped out (see the blog linked below). The black tank is in the very back, below floor level, outlet is on the back, closer to the street side. Inside, the tank opening is pretty close to the center, and about 14 inches in from the back wall -- with all the plastic torn out -- the inside skin wall.

Drains for the shower and other gray water connect on the street side.

Water heater is on the curb side, needs to be replaced. I found that the water heater is not vented inside. Maybe that's another thread...

Question: Has anyone reformatted the interior design so that a full bed can be installed in the back, moving the toilet, sink, and shower into the corner, possibly taking up closet space on the street side?

Inspiration for this is that I am taking up the rear floor, repairing the separation, and finding the blank slate calling to me. Besides, it would be nice to have a bed that does not have to be folded up each day in order to cook and move around to the rear bath.

I've been looking at the fabulous restorations on the forums, but am not finding "exactly" what I am looking for. Of course, it could be that no one else thinks this is a good idea.

Thanks, forum folks,
Anne

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

I have a 1968 Trade Wind, twin model. The front has twin extending gauchos with a dinette table between. Another gaucho is in the center over the curb side wheel well, opposite all of the kitchen appliances.

Rear bath has been ripped out (see the blog linked below). The black tank is in the very back, below floor level, outlet is on the back, closer to the street side. Inside, the tank opening is pretty close to the center, and about 14 inches in from the back wall -- with all the plastic torn out -- the inside skin wall.

Drains for the shower and other gray water connect on the street side.

Water heater is on the curb side, needs to be replaced. I found that the water heater is not vented inside. Maybe that's another thread...

Question: Has anyone reformatted the interior design so that a full bed can be installed in the back, moving the toilet, sink, and shower into the corner, possibly taking up closet space on the street side?

Inspiration for this is that I am taking up the rear floor, repairing the separation, and finding the blank slate calling to me. Besides, it would be nice to have a bed that does not have to be folded up each day in order to cook and move around to the rear bath.

I've been looking at the fabulous restorations on the forums, but am not finding "exactly" what I am looking for. Of course, it could be that no one else thinks this is a good idea.

Thanks, forum folks,
Anne

Anne.

Your game plan is ok, "IF."

You will need to watch the weight and balance, of the trailer.

You "MUST" increase the rear hold down configuration, so that the frame will not pull away from the shell, which is very easy to do, when the rear end is apart.

Andy

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

I have a 1968 Trade Wind, twin model. The front has twin extending gauchos with a dinette table between. Another gaucho is in the center over the curb side wheel well, opposite all of the kitchen appliances.

Does your Trade Wind have 3 gouchos??

I thought a "twin" model has 2 twin beds, on either side, over the wheel wells and one goucho in the front?

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Does your Trade Wind have 3 gouchos??

I thought a "twin" model has 2 twin beds, on either side, over the wheel wells and one goucho in the front?

Prior to 1969, it appears that if there was a dinette (two twin beds), there was a goucho across from the galley. If there was a front goucho, then there were twin beds at mid-ships as you describe.

[Fiamma]

Are you talking about a bed/bath configuration like some of the current 25' Internationals and Safaris?

Colonial Airstream " Of New Jersey " Airstream New Inventory Updated Weekly

[byamcaravanner]

Anne,

Check out the layout in my friends '61 Caravel. I think it is similar to what you are hoping to accomplish.

You can also see pictures of it HERE

[Lumatic]

My 71 has 2 gauchos. A gaucho up front under the front window as usual. It also has a gaucho in place of one of the twins, curbside. Across from the rear gaucho where a 2nd twin is found in some layouts are closets and a vanity under the window. We very much like this layout, good design and more storage space.

[Fiamma]

The front-facing kitchen in the Caravel is genius!

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by Fiamma

The front-facing kitchen in the Caravel is genius!

We found it VERY fuctional.

[IndyAnne]

Andy: Your game plan is ok, "IF."

Me: Right -- the "ifs" will make all the difference in safety and long-term enjoyment. Short-term enjoyment is having towing problems, risking too much with precious cargo (Sweetheart and little humans and little furry children).

Andy: You will need to watch the weight and balance, of the trailer.

Me: Yes, I am going to weigh the trailer now loaded, overall, tongue, and each side using the coefficients provided on the forums (buried in bookmarks at the moment). Then, as I work along, I would weigh components as I go and follow up with total and side-to-side weights.

Andy: You "MUST" increase the rear hold down configuration, so that the frame will not pull away from the shell, which is very easy to do, when the rear end is apart.

Me: I saw the history of this matter in the

Fotochop:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...air-38434.html
thread on his bath floor replacement, and

Pizzachop:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/507153-post23.html
referred to you about reinforcing the rear frame and shell attachment.

I have a welder lined up for reinforcing and replacing some of the cross-members, securing the black tank, and other items.

Anne

[IndyAnne]

Check out the layout in my friends '61 Caravel. I think it is similar to what you are hoping to accomplish.

>> I love that layout! The front-facing kitchen is perfect. Thanks, byamcaravanner.

You know, I can already hear "Just get a 61 Caravelle." (Not from you, B.C. -- superego father figures.)

Here's my justification:

I like the size of the Trade Wind. I like to do this kind of remodeling. I'm not looking to recreate the perfect 1968 Trade Wind, I am working on something that our family will enjoy safely. Taking everything apart makes anything possible. Resale is not a priority at the moment -- traveling and enjoying Indiana state parks with our family is #1.

I will not be doing all of this all at once because we have too many trips planned with our Airstream to strip it all down and work from wheels up. From all of the posts I see on the frame-up restorations, the Airstream is in a garage for a year or more.

We don't mind going out for the weekend as-is. Everything works well enough to use it all the time, already. But, it's going to be nicer and nicer as time goes on.

I hope that's not all too defensive.

[IndyAnne]

On the Vintage Airstream Club site, I found the list of catalogs from Airstream. This link is to the page of PDF downloads. The 1968 catalog, page 31, middle image contains the twin design.
The Vintage Airstream Club

Here are a couple of links on vintageairstream.com to some photos resembling our floor plan:
1968 Tradewind 3

Anne

[A/SimpleLife]

Anne, you know, somebody did put a full bed in the back of an older trailer, next to the bath in the corner, and it was going to look like a new model, like the 19 Bambi. He put a wall between the bed and bath and was going to make it a wet bath by using a sliding shower pan that went under the bed when not in use and slid out into the bath to shower (lining up the two drains.) It looked great. I have searched for his pics but cannot find them. Maybe someone else knows where they are.

[IndyAnne]

Wow! Yes, that looks like what I had in mind. That's very nice.

I like the size of the Trade Wind. I think it would be possible to work this out if I take some of the weight minimizing steps I have seen with others, Sergie, for instance, here: http://tinyurl.com/6k2r7z

Anne

Originally Posted by Fiamma

Are you talking about a bed/bath configuration like some of the current 25' Internationals and Safaris?

Colonial Airstream " Of New Jersey " Airstream New Inventory Updated Weekly

[IndyAnne]

Hey, Great! If you come across, post here or shoot me an email. I'll look, too. Thanks a lot.

[IndyAnne]

I've been going real slow taking apart the bath. I'm building a pile of stuff in the driveway, including a few dollars' worth of copper pipes. I've been real careful with the copper, thinking over the options of using it again, or going with some combo of PEX and copper.

The hot water heater works just fine once we get parked and take the time to heat up the thermalcouple. It worked very well on a couple of story weekends when I thought a storm would blow out the pilot. So, if I don't wreck it by removing it for the floor repair, I'll keep it for another season. Same for all of the appliances. I figure relocating the bathroom components to move the bed into the back is enough for this year.

The fun of the project is learning more about the mind behind the design. I have to say, I've found some stuff that I did not expect to find. It's hard to imagine what is previous owner cobbling together little fixes over time and what was Airstream originally.

I tell you, all that plastic and fiberglass in the original design was like love, covering a multitude of sins. After I ripped that stuff out, carefully cut away the drains and vents, and the water lines in that rat's nest of pipes and rot in the back end, I was temporarily stunned.

I guess this was the point of no return. I looked at the mess, took a bunch of pictures, and commenced to cutting out the pipes -- carfully to be reused.

I found the original seam of the rear 4 foot section of floor. This is the starting point of the floor replacement. The photo shows the rusty elevator bolt that I will address from underneath the trailer when I have constructed my safety system for elevating the back end on some planks, like I have seen others do. No jacks -- big ol' 2 x 12s cut on an angle so I can drive the wheels up onto the elevation, crawl underneath, and investigate the mouse nests, to which I will immediately introduce my cat.

I have the replacement panel set up to paint several coats of outdoor polyurethane and marine topside paint. I shall treat the floor like it will have to last forever -- or until the next owner gets it and sets up howling against all that I have done. If all goes well, that next owner will be some rising young'un in our household. Who knows, she may need it for a college housing, or we might eventually retire it to the back yard for our pool house.

So, here goes some pics with beginning mysteries attached. I don't know how to intersperse the photos with text. So, maybe I'll end up expanding my blog and send links to there for more of the details.

Thanks to the airforum folks for being so creative and willing to share from good (and bad) experience.

Here's a mystery. Since all of this interior skin, with the zolatone encrusted over with 40 years of road grime and who know what from the Michican woods, was covered with plastic bathroom parts from floor to ceiling, how did this hole get here? I speculate this is a factory event, before the bathroom components were installed.

What's more, now that I can actually see what was behind all of that plastic, I see some curious things, like in the photo with the gap between the fiberglass end cap -- which I ain't touching, not removing, no way. I wonder if there was a shortage of interior aluminum skin that day and they figured, what the heck? this is going to be covered in plastic anyway, so why bother?

Question is, I do not plan to re-cover this rear section with plastic. Maybe some kind of painted aluminum. But I was not planning to cover "over" what is already there, but, obviously, I cannot get to the rivets holding these lower panels without removing the end cap, which I already said I am not going to remove. There is just too much that could go wrong there. They do not make those anymore, I hear.

So, I'm already thinking, how could I manage this rouged-out finish that Airstream must have intended never to see the light of day? I mean, besides clean it.

But, how am I going to get those panels off to get to the framing, to see if any of the floor channels have survived the water damage. I see so much daylight from the clearing away of pipes and water lines, i just know I am going to encounter so much corrosion and dissolved aluminum, not to mention steel frame and cross members. And, -- OH -- the black tank and related parts... yuk.

[IndyAnne]

I was reading on this post from Smokeless Joe's remodel of his Argosy http://tinyurl.com/5a4okh and http://tinyurl.com/6zjfk2
that he is using sump pump pipe for the kitchen drain.

Today, when i cut out the drain pipes and vent pipes, I counted over 280 inches of 1.5" and 2" pipes (Johnsonite, by the way) from the kitchen and bath drains. I don't have time right now to run all the calculations on the volume of water held by this system, (actually, I would not know where to begin such calculations) but I think the original idea was that these large pipes served as a kind of gray water holding system. This does work for a couple of days, if you shower in the campground shower house and don't wash many dishes.

I also counted 4 90 degree elbow joints, 8 45 degree joints, 4 Y joints, and two gooseneck traps. That's a lot of glueing and wrangling of straight pipes around a rounded space. Why not sump pipes? They are very durable, handle a lot of water from my basement every time it rains, very little gluing involved.

I'm thinking it's a great idea. About the gray water holding, I think the Blue portable and towable-behind-the-bike models would work just fine.

[IndyAnne]

I was very pleased to see copper wiring when I began disconnecting the bathroom, and investigating the Univolt and related wiring that I could see without yet removing interior skins. I understand that with a war on, copper was directed to defense, while Airstream used mostly aluminum in the trailers. I was fearing, but prepared for, dielectric situations in installing new fixtures. So far, I see copper.

One photo is an example of the wiring I am seeing. The other shows what seems to be the original wiring for the bath, labeled as such, 12/2 Romex.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

I was reading on this post from Smokeless Joe's remodel of his Argosy http://tinyurl.com/5a4okh and http://tinyurl.com/6zjfk2
that he is using sump pump pipe for the kitchen drain.

I love Sergei's work for sure, his is among my favorite renovations/restorations so far. But on that thread, you'll notice a couple of other folks questioned whether or not using the sump pump tubing for a drain is a good idea. Aside from the "gurgling" you will likely hear, there is also the possibility of solids getting caught up in the ridges. Since the drain is gravity fed and there is no water pump or water jet in this application, compared to the other typical applications for this type of hose, I can't help but wonder how well it will work in real life. Keep in mind that Sergei is just now completing his project and has not yet spent any time camping/living in his trailer. Since I really like the flexibility of this type of drain pipe, I'm eager to see his comments after a few months of using it in a real life application.

Anyway, I'm interested to follow your own renovation, thanks for taking the time to document, and good luck!

-Marcus

[UpNorthAir]

Maybe Braid Reinforced Flexible PVC Tubing, a little pricey but you wouldn't have to screw around with elbows and such. I think it goes for a $3 a foot for 1-1/4" dia.

Maybe get away with 1" ? Save some green. I'm pretty sure HD and Lowes carry it.

Give me a couple a weeks and I'll let ya know how it works .... Just started gutting my interior...