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Old 05-06-2007, 07:01 PM   #61
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Watching and learning...

Looking good, keep it up...
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:37 PM   #62
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Frame POR-15

Removed the shock absorber attachments.
Had new torsion axles and drums with electric brakes put on.
Removed all the old brake line hardware.
Added an additional crossbar in the back.
Straightened the rear bumper and frame back by the toilet.
Replaced an outrigger than sat under the toilet and had rusted through badly.
Original jack was cracked, removed and replaced with new one.

Marine Clean.
Metal Ready.
POR-15 (2 coats) There was greater than 72 hours between the coats and therefore a self-etching primer was used prior to the second coat.
It took 2 and 1/2 quarts of POR-15 to do it all.

I tried to duplicate the pics from the previous post to show a sort-of before and after. The step took some hammering and bending to get it to work right. It still has a few rust holes thru it, but ya know, it's original and it's probably sturdier than any new one.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:03 PM   #63
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Floor Work....

Just pluggin' along at a snail's pace....
  • Had new wheel wells fabricated from galvanized steel and then I POR-15'ed the undersides. The old ones were shot. Really nice work by a local metal work shop.
  • I had all new straight U-channel made (out of a bit thicker aluminum than the original .024"), but salvaged the curved sections. Wire brushed off the corrosion with a grinder, then Metal Clean, Metal Prep, and next POR-15.
  • Laid on top each other, the curved sections are basically exactly the same. Just an observation.
  • I used the old floor as a template and cut new floor from tongue-n-groove 3/4" plywood. Due to concerns for corrosion, I used untreated ply and then applied "CPES" penetrating epoxy (Rot Dr).
....and then, things come to a halt due to the first snow of the season. Colorado weather is like this, yesterday it was in the 70's, today freezing and 6-8 inches of snow, then back up to the 70's in a few days. Because of this variability, I need to have everything set to do the next step all at once. Wood bolted down, U-channel on, insulation under, belly pan on, then drop down shell and rivet. I might get a 2-3 day stretch of nice weather, so I am trying to prep it all first. Anyway, see ya next post.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:26 PM   #64
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Floor and Wheel Wells On....

We had a break in the weather here and I took advantage of it. The long period without working on the trailer did allow for all the epoxy fumes to dissipate from the wood, so that's the good part to the delay. It got up into the 30's or so, but in the direct sun, it was warm.

Used stabilizer jacks to straighten the frame.
I finally got the wheel wells sized correctly (originally too wide, that lost me another 2 weeks), placed them on top of a generous bead of vulkem.
Laid the floor on top and bolted it down using fanged elevator bolts (Makes it easier when it's a one-man operation).

The length from steel plate-to-steel plate is the same, the width of the floor is the same, and it's flush with the curbside step and outriggers. This makes it hang out a bit farther on the streetside, but that's the way the original one was as well (at least as far as I remember ).
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:27 PM   #65
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Craig,

Glad to see you got a weather break. That picture of your trailer with the snow all around would make a great Christmas card picture. You are sure doing some great work. Greatly appreciate your sharing in such detail your efforts.

Merry Christmas

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Old 12-19-2007, 07:17 PM   #66
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U-Channel On

Someday I'll have a great vintage ride like Barry's to pull this .....but that's a ways off.

Decent weather again, so back to work.
  • The black curved U-channels are the original, just cleaned, prep'ed, and POR-15'ed. They are all basically identical in size and curvature as I posted before, but L and R-sided.
  • To place them correctly, (if you kept them labeled well, as to which corner they belong to), you can simply line up the old rivet holes from the front and rear steel plates with the the rivet holes in the U-Channel.
  • I had all new straight-channel made rather than salvage the brittle old stuff. It's the same thickness as the curved sections and thus stiffer.
  • Ran a bead of Vulkem under it all.
  • Tacked it down with 3/4" wood screws. The original had elevator bolts holding it down as well, but I thought this was overkill. I can still put in the elevator bolts if needed, does anyone have thoughts on this?
  • I ran U-channel across where the opening of the door goes, you can see a gap there due to the wood bending when I bolted the wood to the the step's framework (not sure why). I am not confident the door will line up if I had pre-cut the u-channel, so I didn't bead or screw down this short section since I will cut it to exact specs once the shell is there to measure it exactly. Then, the gap will disappear as well.
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:12 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2333
  • Tacked it down with 3/4" wood screws. The original had elevator bolts holding it down as well, but I thought this was overkill. I can still put in the elevator bolts if needed, does anyone have thoughts on this?
Thoughts? You should use elevator bolts. The screws over time may back out or wiggle free from the wood much easier than elevator bolts will. They are the major structural element holding the shell to the floor and you won't want to remove everything again later to fix a problem when things get loose. You are going to all this effort now, do it right.

Looks good though ~

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Old 12-20-2007, 10:39 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2333
Tacked it down with 3/4" wood screws. The original had elevator bolts holding it down as well, but I thought this was overkill. I can still put in the elevator bolts if needed, does anyone have thoughts on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
Thoughts? You should use elevator bolts... They are the major structural element holding the shell to the floor...
I agree with Shari!

These bolts (and to some degree, the rivets on the wraps) are what holds the shell on the frame. Unless you are planning on doing some "shell off" camping, I would bolt the U channel through the floor/outriggers.
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:56 PM   #69
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Insulation

Yes, to the elevator bolts. It's too easy to put them in right now to not do it.

On that thought, the belly pan goes on soon, and I have heard of some folks not intending on bending it over the U-Channel. Their reasoning - this would make future removal easier and that bending it over doesn't add anything structurally significant. So, I need to ponder that one.

I am using Tuff-R commercial product from Home Depot for the floor insulation. It's 2-inch foam (closed cell), that has a reflective surface on both sides. I am hoping to get the best of both worlds with this. It's true that the frame will conduct right to the wood floor, but I had to compromise somewhere.
  • A bead of construction adhesive.
  • Stuck to the floor.
  • Screwed in.
I hadn't planned on using the screws, but when the first panel went in, I immediately thought "This ain't going to stay glued!". So I looked around for what I had, and I found 2-inch deck screws and left over washers. It's snugged them up tight. 2 and 1/2" screws would have not need to be "countersunk" and would not go thru the 3/4 inch floor, but I used what I had and I can fill the holes and cover them when I use tape (probably reflective) to go back and seal all the insulation seams. When I get it done, I'll post a "completed" pic. Need to get those elevator bolts in as well. Thanks for the input!
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:51 PM   #70
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Floor Insulation Done

Finished the insulation, I hope it was worth it. The more comfortable the family, the more likely they'll want to go camping, so every bit helps.
  • Put the elevator bolts in the U-Channel.
  • I ran out of screws, so I got the 2 1/2" ones and they worked well.
  • I covered the whole floor, then sealed to the cross-members with "Gorilla Tape". I think it'll hold the panels in better than the aluminum tape, which tears quite easily (if the screws and construction adhesive fail).
  • Covered the holes with aluminum tape.
  • "Shaved" the edges where the belly pan will curved up.
As with every part of the rebuild, it seems to take at least 4x longer than anticipated.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:34 PM   #71
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MOST excellent thread, Craig, thank you. I just got my bath bellypan off today and found a mountain of very nasty FOAM insulation. don't think this is original, probably from a prior renovation. think i'll follow your lead and remove foam, replace with that nice board you used and seal with Gorilla Tape. this thread alone has filled in a lot of missing info for me. not doing a shell-off but bath floor, tank supports, etc. must be replaced. thanks again
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:58 PM   #72
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Belly Pan

So I started the belly pan and it's going slow.

First - With 2 days of Category I Hurricaine winds, it's not a good time to be outside with a stack of 4 x 10 aluminum panels. If I didn't previous mention, I got .025" panels from Alreco, I don't know which alloy. Then, the "weatherman-predicted" 50-degree sunny weather instead was 4-6 inches of heavy wet snow. But, this is Colorado .

Second - I'm not complaining, just venting, but only about 20% of the frame's crossmembers and outriggers are "true". That is, parallel to each other or square to the rails. Maybe the newer frames are better in this respect, but it makes it tough. Each piece of insulation was a custom fit and the belly pan is no different, especially when it comes to the curves.

I was only able to get about 1/4 of the belly pan done.
  • I chose to wrap the belly pan over the U-channel like it was done originally. I simply cannot envision how to do a complete belly pan and drop the shell over that, without it being secured to the U-Channel in the process. Clamps and clecoes would obstruct the shell coming down, tacked rivets would remain hidden (..and we know how we hate those). In the least, I could "unwrap" the tabs before putting the inner panels back on.
  • I did cleco the first tab, as this was a critical point I didn't want moving. You can see in the pictures how I used it and clamps to hold things in place while I folded over tabs.
  • I used a 2x2 (supported with that stool, real high tech, the other support is a toilet plunger .. seriously, no joke) to hold the pan to the outriggers as I worked.
  • I bet this is a lot easier if you could flip over the whole thing. Those airstream technicians in that vintage production-line picture wouldn't be wearing white jumpsuits and looking so happy if they had to do this lying on their backs while grinding aluminum shavings into their shoulder blades! Sorry, just an observation. Plus, I bet they never had the ingenuity, or stupidity, to used a toilet plunger for a critical procedure.
  • The oversized rivets are from VAS and they work great. The bonus it that when you make a rather ugly rivet hole, it covers your mistake nicely.
  • Thanks again to Zep for loaning me those tools. Air snips are fun.
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:09 PM   #73
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Thanks Rick! I appreciate the support.

I chose the Gorilla tape (Home Depot, etc) because of how "tough" it's supposed to be. But, I do wish it was more "Sticky". I think it'll weather great, but it alone will not support the Tuff-R foamboard. I resigned to simply use it to seal in the gaps. If you find a similiar duct tape that has a better grip, then use it. Time will tell, maybe it will bond better as it warms up. It's been on a week and it's still in place. I have been working in 20-40 degree weather, so that will certainly hinder or lengthen the time the tape glue would take to bond. Possibly in warmer conditions, this Gorilla Tape would stick-like crazy.

The Tuff-R board is nice. Zep has something similiar on outside of his house that is completely exposed to the elements (sorry to dime you out on this Zep). It's been there for years and hasn't disinegrated yet.
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:27 PM   #74
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Job well done, you have done work to be quite proud off.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:13 PM   #75
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more panels in...

It got down to the single digits and has been snowing, but I try to get out there when at least the sun is out.
The 4th and 5th panels are in, but just cleco'ed in place.
  • Seems when you have 2 overlapping panels, and they have to curve up to the u-channel together, it's better to have all the flat sections in place and then curve them up together, instead doing one complete and then starting the next.
  • If you try to do them one at a time, it's tough to match the the same arc of the curve. The first pic shows the best I could get when I did the first panel, then wrapped up the second and it was hard to close the gap. The second time I waited to get both panels on, then wrapped them together and got a tighter seam. Not a huge difference, but enough.
  • All seams open toward the rear so when going down the road, water/air isn't forced in.
One panel left to do, of course it's the front one and getting those curved sections will be fun.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:20 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2333
I chose the Gorilla tape (Home Depot, etc) because of how "tough" it's supposed to be. But, I do wish it was more "Sticky"...Possibly in warmer conditions, this Gorilla Tape would stick-like crazy.
I skirted my trailer with pink foam before winter set in and used Gorilla tape. It has not budged and we've had a lot of snow and rain and cold! Check out my blog for picts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2333
The Tuff-R board is nice. Zep has something similiar on outside of his house that is completely exposed to the elements (sorry to dime you out on this Zep). It's been there for years and hasn't disinegrated yet.
I'm sure the building inspector in knocking on his door as we speak.
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:02 PM   #77
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Great idea on the pink skirt and a good testament for gorilla tape. I bet it warms up pretty nice ....but not so good for ventilation using that paint stripper or POR-15.
Are you repainting the inner panels or going to leave them shiny?
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:21 PM   #78
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...belly pan done.

Well, it ain't pretty, but it's done.
  • Those curves are a pain.
  • Your not supposed to have a watertight belly pan so that when water gets in, it will drain out. I was very successful in leaving numerous gaps and holes for water to drain out. Most were unintentional.
  • Used about 150-160 rivets, broke or wore out a few drills bits, and clamps were extremely handy. Cleco's are great.
Pulled it under the shell and will pray that it fits tomorrow.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:26 PM   #79
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Wow, nice work. I smell campfires in your not too distant future.

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Old 01-30-2008, 07:36 PM   #80
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Lowering Shell

I disassembled the towers of concrete brick and began to bring down the shell. I ran into a few issues:
  • Pic 1 shows how I lowered it. At that point I had removed the majority of the bracing. This allowed me to "mold" the shell to get it to fit.
  • You can see how the cross-brace 2x4 is sitting on the bricks, each with a smaller length of more 2x4. This actually made it easy to take a rubber mallet and tap the brace, moving the whole shell millimeters at a time, to get it exactly where I needed it.
  • I did one corner at a time and it actually fit. As I let down a corner with one hand on the jack, I would use a length of 1x2 to hold out the corner with the other hand. I also used some wedges to guide the shell as well. This took a full day.
  • Pic 2 shows that I seated the 4 main ribs at each corner. These 4 ribs are the ones that sit inside the U-Channel. Since they are the same width, I had to bend out the U-Channel and later I removed about an inch of that inner lip.
  • Pic 3 shows that even with the ribs seated, there was still areas that didn't line up. This is the back left corner and either the shell is one inch too high, or the corner is 1 inch too low. After a lot of debate and re-seating etc, it turns out that the corner was low.
  • I used leveling jacks in the back as this is done to keep the frame straight, but regardless of that, the corner still sagged. Fortunately I realized it was really simple to just lift that corner with my hand using surprisingly little force.
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