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FC7039 · 12-28-2011, 03:03 PM

A thought. Have a friend in another state apply for a lost title. That state will not have the VIN on file. Once a title is secured, "buy" it from your friend.

I doubt the seller will ever contest your purchase and "new" title.

Splitrock · 12-28-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND10CentCan

The other part of me hopes this guy is going to produce the title and I can go on with my little life and no drama.

In South Dakota, this is called denial:-)

If I wanted to waste another month, I might have the attorney write a firm letter of demand of performance on the delivery of title portion of your contract. A verbal agreement is a contract and legally enforceable. It's nice to have a third party witness. It's even nicer to have a written contract.

ND10CentCan · 12-28-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitrock

In South Dakota, this is called denial:-)

If I wanted to waste another month, I might have the attorney write a firm letter of demand of performance on the delivery of title portion of your contract. A verbal agreement is a contract and legally enforceable. It's nice to have a third party witness. It's even nicer to have a written contract.

I think it is the same thing in ND too. Unfortunately. My daughter keeps telling me what an optimist I am and how I am letting him lead me along. She was there when I paid him and got him to sign the bill of sale. So I do have a witness and hope that counts even if she is my daughter.
I keep hoping he is going to do what he says he is going to do and everytime he doesn't, I call and he says "No problem!" and then we do it all over again. I am getting really tired of this nonsense and could be doing something on the trailer instead of waiting on the title and not daring to think it will all be resolved soon.

He has one week. If I don't hear from him or get the title, I will assume he doesn't plan to solve this the easier way. I will then either contact law enforcement to file a report on him for fraud or contact a lawyer. I just really don't like to have to do this but apparently, he doesn't have the same ethical boundaries.
Sandy

Splitrock · 12-28-2011, 09:57 PM

For me, solving a legal problem with the help of an attorney certainly isn't the choice of last resort. It's the choice that usually nets results. I've been self employed for the last 37 years and ran a good sized C Corp. manufacturing company with over 25 employees for 20 of those, so I've had attorneys working for me for decades.

Usually when I need an attorney it's because I did something stupid, like doing business on a handshake, but not always. Sometimes it's because somebody else did something stupid. I don't ever bother calling the cops. They just say it's a civil matter.

Once I sue for performance + cash + expenses, it's very difficult to get rid of me with just the performance. I always sue in circuit court so the defendant has to hire their own attorney to reply to the summons. It doesn't take em long to see the litigation is going to cost em some serious cash . . . fast!

ND10CentCan · 12-29-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitrock

For me, solving a legal problem with the help of an attorney certainly isn't the choice of last resort. It's the choice that usually nets results. I've been self employed for the last 37 years and ran a good sized C Corp. manufacturing company with over 25 employees for 20 of those, so I've had attorneys working for me for decades.

Usually when I need an attorney it's because I did something stupid, like doing business on a handshake, but not always. Sometimes it's because somebody else did something stupid. I don't ever bother calling the cops. They just say it's a civil matter.

Once I sue for performance + cash + expenses, it's very difficult to get rid of me with just the performance. I always sue in circuit court so the defendant has to hire their own attorney to reply to the summons. It doesn't take em long to see the litigation is going to cost em some serious cash . . . fast!

This was a stupid move on my part and one I will never repeat. I guess I have learned from the school of hard knocks on this one. I don't know how much an attorney is going to cost and I am not sure who does this type of case. Would it be better to sue in small claims court or do you think he would just laugh that off? Uffda.
Sandy

Splitrock · 12-29-2011, 12:36 PM

I never go to small claims court. Say you go to small claims court and win, now what do you do? The judge says he has to give you the title . . . that's what will happen if you win . . . how do you get the guy to give you the title? You're right back to where you are now and you didn't accomplish anything. All you can get from small claims court is a judgement and you can't sue for a chunk of cash there. Here the small claims court is the court of last resort. I don't want to sue anybody in the court of last resort in case I lose.

Here if I you sue me in small claims court, I can just petition you into circuit court, and now you're in circuit court anyway. I just start there.

Don't ever think of going to court without an attorney. The attorney will charge you almost the same to go to small claims court as he will to go to circuit court.

I only sue in circuit court and I only use the best attorney I know. I'd sue for performance on the contract (delivering the title) + cash + expenses. It's the suit for cash that'll get his attention.

If the time for being nice isn't past yet, then let the time for being nice expire. Then quit being nice. Don't try to be nice in court. Be nasty in court, be nasty with the attorney. Your bridges are burned now anyway.

I still think there's a pretty good chance the letter from the attorney demanding performance and threatening to sue will net the delivery of the title. I'd try that first. No, writing the letter yourself won't work. :-)

Splitrock · 12-29-2011, 12:55 PM

Most attorneys won't charge for the initial visit to discuss your case. Some will. Ask. I ask the attorney for their hourly rate and the hourly rate for their legal assistant. I ask for an estimate including per diem. If I'm going to court, I go to a trial lawyer not the tax attorney or the probate attorney that did grandma's will.

I want my attorney to be the last guy you'd ever want to meet in a courtroom in the whole world. With the right attorney handling the case, most deals are settled before they go to court.

My experience tells me that if I can learn something for less than a thousand bucks, it's a cheap lesson. Whatever it costs to get the title, just add it to the cost of the trailer when you sell it. :-)

Disneysue925 · 12-29-2011, 05:23 PM

I think he would not want some nice lady and her friends sitting in his office asking for a title especially since his employer would likely be interested in this since he sells trailers for a living. Could be rather embarrassing for his line of work don't you think?

He sells trailers for a living????? Has anyone let his employer know what's going on? Before going to the lawyer why not go to his employer? You may, sadly, lose the trailer. But do you really want a trailer acquired by less than honest means? Seems like bad karma for such a nice trailer. Just saying....

BTW, I am married to a retired lawyer. I would love to see this trailer released from the purgatory/limbo it seems to dwell in now. If you need a lawyer get a good one. It will be worth the $$ Most of them are--despite the bad press--honest folks trying to earn an honest living.

Hope it all ends well,
Sue

ND10CentCan · 12-29-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ole-red

I am having a problem not as bad as yours, but has to to with the DMV in Pennsylvania. I bought a trailer, met the owner at their bank, paid the note off and the rest of the money went to the owner...I had the owner give me a bill of sale, and the bank was going to send notification to the DMV to send me a paper title....That has been since the middle of October, and no title yet....I can't get the DMV to even give me any information because apparently they have the wrong address on me...But the owner is really nice and she has called them, and hopefully I will hear something in a few days...But the DMV will not tell me anything...

I am hoping your situation is resolved too before it goes on too much longer. Yours seems a little less severe but if a person doesn't get a title, then what good is the trailer. I bought this one in October too and no title....good luck with yours and I'll continue working on ours.
Sandy

ND10CentCan · 12-29-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disneysue925

I think he would not want some nice lady and her friends sitting in his office asking for a title especially since his employer would likely be interested in this since he sells trailers for a living. Could be rather embarrassing for his line of work don't you think?

He sells trailers for a living????? Has anyone let his employer know what's going on? Before going to the lawyer why not go to his employer? You may, sadly, lose the trailer. But do you really want a trailer acquired by less than honest means? Seems like bad karma for such a nice trailer. Just saying....

BTW, I am married to a retired lawyer. I would love to see this trailer released from the purgatory/limbo it seems to dwell in now. If you need a lawyer get a good one. It will be worth the $$ Most of them are--despite the bad press--honest folks trying to earn an honest living.

Hope it all ends well,
Sue

I don't think the trailer has bad Karma attached to it; I think the PO thinks it doesn't really matter when or if I get the title because he already has his money back in the middle of October. I have thought about contacting his employer but wanted to just resolve this by talking civilly to him. I guess my idea didn't work. So much for being nice. This was one of two AS he personally owned and I bought one from him not the dealership.

I do think an attorney would be extremely helpful but don't know what that would end up costing. I may have no other options though in the end if I don't get a title. I am always the optimist and think one way or the other, I will get this title and the rest will be history.

Since we don't have a name yet for this little beauty, I don't want anything negative connected to it so I am thinking positively and hoping the PO will finally come through. He has his week yet starting last Tuesday. We will see what happens after that. Thanks for your concern and information.
Sandy

Disneysue925 · 12-29-2011, 07:13 PM

This was one of two AS he personally owned and I bought one from him not the dealership.

But, the problem seems to be--did he actually own it? A few years ago someone I worked with was let go for a seemingly insignificant reason. I was upset and questioned why they were terminated. My boss at the time explained that if you can't trust someone about the small things, how can you trust them about the really important things? It later came to light that this person had been less than truthful about many things. Some of them very "big". As an employer (or even a co-worker) I would want to know about a less than ethical employee. You may not be the first--or last--person he has been less than fair to.

I didn't mean to attach any bad feelings to your new baby. I think you have done a wonderful thing by rescuing her. I think I would call her "Lucky", since you seem to be doing your very best to make her future better than her recent past.

Namaste,

Sue

ND10CentCan · 12-29-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disneysue925

This was one of two AS he personally owned and I bought one from him not the dealership.

But, the problem seems to be--did he actually own it? A few years ago someone I worked with was let go for a seemingly insignificant reason. I was upset and questioned why they were terminated. My boss at the time explained that if you can't trust someone about the small things, how can you trust them about the really important things? It later came to light that this person had been less than truthful about many things. Some of them very "big". As an employer (or even a co-worker) I would want to know about a less than ethical employee. You may not be the first--or last--person he has been less than fair to.

I didn't mean to attach any bad feelings to your new baby. I think you have done a wonderful thing by rescuing her. I think I would call her "Lucky", since you seem to be doing your very best to make her future better than her recent past.

Namaste,

Sue

I love your suggestion of Lucky because I do have lots of great plans for her (when I get the title!) and can't wait to get started. She is going to be a real gem when we get done with her. I think he did own it but did not get the title transferred to his name and instead just kept a paper copy of the old title.

Then comes the flood and he loses a number of his papers. Of course, can he be feeding me a pack of lies? I have learned already not to trust this guy any further than I can throw him but I did do a title search at the ND DMV and it has only been officially titled once, in 1959. So two other people have owned it since then and neither of them got the title transferred.

So it goes....I will put Lucky on my list of suggestions and hopefully when we get the title, we can make that final determination of a name. I am hoping that soon this will all be just a big past pain in the rear and I will have the title. Thanks Sue!
Sandy

ND10CentCan · 01-11-2012, 06:08 PM

Lots of phone calls later to the PO.....and some rather unpleasant tones....I am headed to the ND DMV tomorrow after work. Stay tuned. I hope tomorrow I can report I have a title!
Sandy

worldinchaos · 01-11-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND10CentCan

Lots of phone calls later to the PO.....and some rather unpleasant tones....I am headed to the ND DMV tomorrow after work. Stay tuned. I hope tomorrow I can report I have a title!
Sandy

Yay!!! We're tuned! Good luck.

ND10CentCan · 01-12-2012, 06:13 PM

Went by the DMV after work today and I didn't get the title but at least I got a human being to wait on me as opposed to the creature that waited on me the first time I went in. I spotted that original person when I was waiting in line and I was ready to give up my spot in line rather than endure that a second time. Luckily, I got another person behind the glass instead and just felt sorry for the person who got her.

This DMV lady actually acted like she was there to help and not to laugh or snicker at my dilemma. She gave me a form to get the original owner to fill out and sign and then...I would get my title. She also gave me the original owners phone number and address. I called the number I got from the DMV and a man answered. No such person at that number nor did he have any idea of the person I was looking for. I looked up the address given to me because she was supposedly the owner of a vehicle that was registered in the state, no such address. In fact, the address they gave me didn't even make any logical sense but I thought I would Google Map it to make sure it was a good address. It wasn't. No such actual address.

So tomorrow I am going to send out enough letters to various combinations of addresses with this lady's name on it to carpet the state. I have no idea what I can do after that if I can't locate her. Hopefully...just hopefully one of them will find their way to her and she will sign it and all of this will be history. Bad history but at least history. I can't wait for this wild goose chase to be over.
Sandy

Lance M · 01-12-2012, 07:22 PM

Wow Sandy! What drama. I know there are people here on the forums that can help you locate her. I was reading a thread about someone getting taken by a screwy seller and his name was put out there and you wouldn't believe what they found in a matter of hours. Try a call to the forums to help you locate her. Wouldn't be losing anything at all. Good luck!

ND10CentCan · 01-12-2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top

Wow Sandy! What drama. I know there are people here on the forums that can help you locate her. I was reading a thread about someone getting taken by a screwy seller and his name was put out there and you wouldn't believe what they found in a matter of hours. Try a call to the forums to help you locate her. Wouldn't be losing anything at all. Good luck!

I don't know for sure how to put a call out on the forums but I could try if I knew how. Do I just put her name out there and see if anyone can track her down? I might have another way to try to get a title if I can't locate her through letters. It is just sort of ridiculous amount of time I have spent trying to get this title. The PO did call me this evening to see if I had been able to get it straightened out with the DMV. Unfortunately I wasn't so he is going to continue trying to get her contacted through his friend that he bought it from. It sure would have been nice if he had told me in the beginning that he never got it titled in his name in the twelve years he had it. That would have prevented me from buying it and getting into all of this &*^%$. Geez this is getting old already. Thanks for your help and concern.
Sandy

Lance M · 01-12-2012, 09:02 PM

Yes Sandy, that is what you should do. Start a thread that says something like "Help me find (insert name here) so I can get my title."
See this thread for the people that can find other people.
Keep your chin up! It'll all be ok. Love your determination!

cbcnm · 01-12-2012, 09:29 PM

sandy try to google something like people finders or identity finders or something like that. it costs something like 50 dollars for a year but to me was well worth it when i had to locate the last owner of record for my 57 flying cloud. turned out she was 93! so i now have the paperwork to get the title but the trailer is in another state getting restoration so i cant take it to dmv for the vin check yet . in theory it should be easy since i have it all signed. chris

ND10CentCan · 01-13-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top

Yes Sandy, that is what you should do. Start a thread that says something like "Help me find (insert name here) so I can get my title."
See this thread for the people that can find other people.
Keep your chin up! It'll all be ok. Love your determination!

Thanks for the support Top,
If I wasn't living this story, I would think someone made it up. I have embarked on another strategy to try to get my title for this cool little trailer. I know it is not stolen after two checks by the ND DMV, I know the seller just didn't bother to tell me it had never been officially registered/titled in his name, and that finding someone who has really taken great pains to be MIA is strange, and that this is part of the problem. I am wondering if trying to contact her directly might create more problems than they might solve.

I spoke with some ND governmental agencies today and they gave me some other avenues to explore. There seems to be more here than I originally thought and I need to try another approach with some time to let things work. I know I am in the clear but I need the title to be able to take this great little trailer on the road once we get it fixed up.

So for right now I am going to give my Plan Z some time to work and then proceed to asking for more help from the Forum if I need to. I am not sure what I would do without the support I get here from people like you Top. Makes me think I am not losing my mind after all.
Sandy