Considering '64 Overlander purchase!

[bakerliz]

Hi there!

So we're seriously looking at a 64 overlander. The interior is in nice shape, though not restored to original. It lacks a furnace (is that normal)? 110 works, but 12 v doesn't, hot water heater may not work, may need new tires. Has new a/c, cooktop, roof vents, propane tanks, regulator. New refrigerator, microwave. New wood flooring.

Does $5000 sound like a good price? How much of a problem are the issues above?

Also... what would be a good tow vehicle for something this size? We're ideally looking for something that can be one of our everyday vehicles, so the less big/gas guzzling, the better!

I know I'm asking for tons of information, but I know that the people here know their stuff!

Thanks in advance!

Liz

[Darol Ingalls]

Too much money. What does "new flooring" mean? Overlayment of laminate? What's under it? Missing furnace isn't bad since the original one was most likely rusted out. Water heater should be replaced anyway. Only a cooktop - no oven? Check Vintage Airstream Home for approx value/condition comparison. Darol

[overlander63]

We towed our Overlander with a Chevy van with no problems. While not as big or heavy as the larger and later models, it is still a 4500 pound plus coach.

[bakerliz]

Thanks for your thoughts on the value. I checked out the value page and I think it falls on the low side of average from what I've seen/read. I just wish I felt more proficient in checking out the axles and the systems and all that stuff....

Towing with a van sounds convenient. I hope I'll be able to do this (drive/tow)!

Thanks!

Liz

[overlander64]

Greetings Liz!

Welcome to the Forums!

Originally Posted by bakerliz

It lacks a furnace (is that normal)?

An International Oil brand furnace that utilized propane was standard on the '64 Overlander. The fact that it is missing would not alarm me greatly as it was one of the first major replacements on my '64 Overlander back in 1995. The new furnaces have the great advantage of automatic ignition which eliminates the need to light the pilot -- one of my hated tasks with the Minuet. The original ductwork likely wasn't removed unless the interior has experienced significant renovations.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

110 works, but 12 v doesn't,

It may be too early to discount the 12-volt system. In the '64 Overlander, there is a 12-volt/shore power switch in the one-stop service compartment as well as the Univolt. Fuses could pose problems as could loose ground or a missing house battery (also found in the one-stop service compartment usually in the area near the bathtub). The original Univolt was the second item replaced on my '64 Overlander in 1995.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

hot water heater may not work,

If it is the original water heater, it may be near or at the end of its useful life. The new water heaters are slightly smaller and may require some modification to the opening, but it is something worth doing to insure a reliable, leak-free water heater -- it would even be possible to add a new water heater with automatic ignition eliminating another of the manual pilot liights. My origianl 1964 water heater quit in 1999 and the new replacement has been far less trouble than the original.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

may need new tires.

New tires on a previously owned coach are a near given. If the age of the tires cannot be proven they should be replaced as a safety insurance policy -- a blown tire can do in excess of $1,000 in damage if the tire disintegrates and beats the side of the body. I would also suggest considering a set of new trailer rated wheels to go with the set of new ST tires -- you can never be quite sure whether the wheels on a vintage coach were actually meant for trailer use or possess a weight carrying ability to support the coach -- the tires and wheels were one of my first replacement items on my coach in 1995 even though I knew the first 20 years of my coach's history -- I didn't know what had befallen it during the 11 years preceeding my purchase as it passed through two owners between the original purchasers and myself.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

Has new a/c, cooktop, roof vents, propane tanks, regulator. New refrigerator, microwave. New wood flooring.

These features are likely plusses so long as they suit you aesthetically.

• So far as the air conditioner is concerned, you will want to verify that it was installed in the factory specified location -- just behind the bulkhead separating the kitchen from the bedroom. The air conditioner on these coaches was not installed in an existing vent opening so the coach should have two square vents as well as one rectangular vent in addition to the air conditioner.
• The original ranges were long-lived, but had something of a reputation for being temperamental particularly when it concerned the oven. I still have my original range, but it has received minimal use over the years.
• The original roof vents are valued by some for their originality, but I have really enjoyed my Fantastic Vents which replaced both original vents in my Overlander.
• Originally, the coach would have likely had aluminum propane tanks -- if the replacements are steel and you want aluminum tanks that can be polished to match the coach -- be prepared as new aluminum tanks are rather costly but very long-lived.
• The new wood flooring would be a step above the original carpeting (IMHO), but the concern would be the condition of the original subfloor. New flooring can disguise rot problems -- something that you will want to check carefully -- the greatest potential locations are near the entry door, refrigerator, and under the jalousie window.
• If the refrigerator is a new RV-type refrigerator, you have a valuable commodity as a replacement RV refrigerator can cost in excess of $1,000 installed. While others might disagree, a new refrigerator offers the potential plus of optional 12-volt operation for travel (the new Dometic that I had installed in my Overlander has the 12-volt operation option).

Originally Posted by bakerliz

Does $5000 sound like a good price? How much of a problem are the issues above?

The problems described can be relatively typical of a new-to-you Vintage coach. My Overlander had most of these issues with fewer major new appliances and I paid about what you indicate in 1995. I may have over-paid, but have had no regrets as the cabinetry in my Overlander was pristine, and it still had its original ceiling upholstery in excellent condition.

I am very partial to '64 Overlanders for a number of reasons. It was the last model year for two of my favorite features -- the door-within-a-door and the jalousie windows beside the entrance. Growing up, my coach was owned by friends of my family and those two features have always been part of the Airstream experience for me.[/quote]

Originally Posted by bakerliz

Also... what would be a good tow vehicle for something this size? We're ideally looking for something that can be one of our everyday vehicles, so the less big/gas guzzling, the better!

This is probably the most difficult question to answer. Typically, a vehicle with good solo fuel efficiency usually is going to be a compromise when towing that returns the same or lower fuel economy than a more powerfult heavier vehicle. I originally towed my Overlander with an '84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the AMC 360 V8 and 3.90 gearing -- 10 MPG solo or towing but plenty of power when towing. Decided to try to economize with a new 1995 Chevrolet Z71 extended cab pickup with 5.7 liter V8 and 3.73 gearing -- 18 MPG solo with 10 MPG towing -- but the power was so abysmal that I traded it in after the second season, My current primary tow vehicle is a 1999 Suburban that I ordered new with the 7.4 Liter V8 and 4.10 differentials -- 12 MPG solo or towing -- plenty of power towing under all conditions. If you are comfortable with marginal performance in the mountains, a typical half-ton will handle a Vintage Overlander -- but be prepared for lack-luster performance in the Rocky Mountains if my experience is typical.

Good luck with your investigation and decision!

Kevin

[bakerliz]

Kevin,

Thank you for your detailed and specific response. That is so incredibly helpful you wouldn't believe it!

I have a couple questions:

Can you still determine if there's rot when there's new flooring?

Have you heard of anyone towing with a Range Rover or do you think that would be too small? I don't have one, but I think they're cool and might be something I would feel comfortable driving. I have more questions, but my son is making fire engine sounds and I can no longer think...I'll post more later. Sincerely, thank you so much!

Liz

Range Rover Classic:
Max Trailer Wt: 5,500 lbs (high range, trailers with brakes)
6,500 lbs (LWB, high range, trailers with brakes)
Max Tongue Wt: 550 lbs
Range Rover 4.0/4.6
Max Trailer Wt: 6,500 lbs (high range, trailers with brakes)
Max Tongue Wt: 550 lbs

Range Rover III/L322/LM
Max Trailer Wt 7,700 lbs
Max Tongue Wt 550 lbs

[overlander64]

Greetings Liz!

Originally Posted by bakerliz

I have a couple questions:

Can you still determine if there's rot when there's new flooring?

The task would be difficult, but not entirely impossible. First of all, the new floor "probably" does not extend under the furniture. Three places that I would suggest checking are under the frount goucho along the perimeter edges (an ice pick or sharp awl would be the tool of choice) -- probe along this edge -- if the point can enter the wood subfloor with little resistance, then there may be a problem -- the same procedures could be employed in the area(s) below the mid-ship bed(s) (pay particular attention near the freshwater tank (likely under the streetside bunk); the rear one-stop service compartment; and the side exterior storage compartment. Two areas that are more difficult to check would be around the entry door and below the jalousie window -- if checks of the other locations don't turn up reason for concern, and there isn't evidence of excessive give or flex in the floor in that area suspicions could be greatly reduced.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

Have you heard of anyone towing with a Range Rover or do you think that would be too small? I don't have one, but I think they're cool and might be something I would feel comfortable driving.

There are several on the Forums who are or have towed with the Range Rovers; but the coaches have usually been less than 25'. The loaded weight of the '64 Overlander is likely to be somewhere between 5,300 and 6,000 pounds so would be pushing the Range Rovers max trailer capacity (other than the III) and would be in excess of the 80% of towing capacity that most Forum members (including me) feel comfortable utilizing. Another issue would be the maximum tongue weight -- with full LP tanks and just very little in the trailer the Overlander's tongue weight will be in excess of 550 pounds. Generally, when my Overlander is loaded ready for a trip, the tongue weight is between 700 and 725 pounds.

Originally Posted by bakerliz

I have more questions, but my son is making fire engine sounds and I can no longer think...I'll post more later. Sincerely, thank you so much!

Liz

Range Rover Classic:
Max Trailer Wt: 5,500 lbs (high range, trailers with brakes)
6,500 lbs (LWB, high range, trailers with brakes)
Max Tongue Wt: 550 lbs
Range Rover 4.0/4.6
Max Trailer Wt: 6,500 lbs (high range, trailers with brakes)
Max Tongue Wt: 550 lbs

Range Rover III/L322/LM
Max Trailer Wt 7,700 lbs
Max Tongue Wt 550 lbs

Good luck with your investigation!.. The Overlanders are a nice size -- not too small, but not so large as to be anything other than a pleasant towing experience.

Kevin

[overlander63]

Something to add to the "might not be such a good idea" opinion, is that many Range Rovers came with air ride suspensions, which are not generally considered to be optimal for towing using WD equipment.

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Something to add to the "might not be such a good idea" opinion, is...

a pretty short wheelbase for a trailer as long as an Overlander ~

Hope you can work it out...I love the '64s, good year IMO! But I might be a little impartial...I have one!

Shari

[bakerliz]

but everyone who has posted pictures here is simply going to have to remove them. I'm DYING for an airstream. And let me just say that's not the best mindset to have when you're trying to make a rational assessment!

I must be getting better, though... I THOUGHT the wheelbase was too short! Wow. I'm getting it!

Shari- your '64 is so beautiful!! Nice to have an ideal to strive toward...

overlander 63- Doh! I have no idea what air ride suspension means...but I'll believe you. So much for the Range Rover.

Kevin- thanks again. We'll check those spots on the floor and hope for the best. OK, I have this info available, but let me make sure understand this ...I need to have towing capacity of about 8000 pounds, right? And the tongue weight (is that literally just the weight of that part in the front of the trailer with the tanks? How do you measure that weight anyway?)capacity of the TV needs to be around 800 pounds? And the longer the wheelbase the better. And no air ride suspension. Am I on track? What else do I need to know in looking for a TV? Does the TV choice seem tricky to anyone else, or is it just me?

Thank you all! :-)

[overlander64]

Greetings Liz!

Originally Posted by bakerliz

Kevin- thanks again. We'll check those spots on the floor and hope for the best. OK, I have this info available, but let me make sure understand this ...I need to have towing capacity of about 8000 pounds, right? And the tongue weight (is that literally just the weight of that part in the front of the trailer with the tanks? How do you measure that weight anyway?)capacity of the TV needs to be around 800 pounds? And the longer the wheelbase the better. And no air ride suspension. Am I on track? What else do I need to know in looking for a TV? Does the TV choice seem tricky to anyone else, or is it just me?

Thank you all! :-)

Basically, most tow vehicles with an 8,000 pound trailer tow rating will have the capacity to accept at least 15% of that amount as hitch weight when a weight distributing hitch is utilized. There are several methods of determining the actual hitch weight, one utilizes a commercial truck scale, another a set of bathroom scales an beams, or there is a scale specially made for measuring the hitch weight:

Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale

The general consensus is that something between 12% and 15% of the coach's gross weight should be carried on the hitch -- how the trailer is loaded as well as whether the water tank is full or empty can have a big impact on the hitch weight. In general, it seems that most Airstreams carry closer to 15% of their weight on the hitch -- a part of the towability reputation (IMHO). The tongue weight is part of the coach's overall or gross weight, and you can think of it as something of a physics problem involving levers and placement of weight -- the further ahead of the axles, the more of the weight that will be transferred to the hitch -- the further from the axles the more of the weight will be shifted off of the hitch. In most cases, 10% of gross weight is considered the minimum hitch weight for acceptable handline while something between 12% and 15% is usually considered ideal.

Generally, vehicles that have issues with hitch weight tend to be those imported or designed in Europe where weight distributing hitches aren't as common as they are here in North America and 10% of gross trailer weight can be on the heavy side of what would be considered the norm.

Kevin