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Old 07-02-2008, 04:42 PM   #101
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1964 26' Overlander
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Thanks! I think his thread was the one that got me thinking about using them in the first place... I don't think I'm going to take such extensive measures to swiss-cheese mine because I like having the interior sides of the cabinets be solid and the overall weight is really not that much, although I think in a couple of places I will cut out most of the panel and glue a thin fiberboard/melamine sheet over it. The fiberboard can be cut from the back panels of the Ikea cabinets, because I'm not using it for the top half of the tall cabinets and even on the base cabinets it doesn't go all the way down because of the cut-outs for the wheel wells.

I like having the back panel in there at least for the lower cabinets though - covers up the water pipes, the wall, and the wheel-well boxes, and stops things falling down the back of the cabinets. I'm going to space them about 4" off the ground (unlike the originals which went right to the floor) with legs so you don't want to lose stuff down there. I may use the space underneath for heating ducts once I get a furnace.
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:08 PM   #102
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Oh yes, another thing to note - I also glued my cabinets when assembling with polyurethane glue - the Ikea knock-down fasteners are pretty strong but I didn't trust them to survive unlimited road vibrations. Mind you one of the nice things about the Ikea cabinets, doors, and fittings is that they have an almost idiot-proof alignment system and so it's very easy to get everything square - and the glue will keep it that way.

I'm not totally sold on the grey Formica/birch doors either. I bought them with the idea that I might refinish them with another colour Formica but I have yet to try that out - I am going to relaminate the table with new Formica as well, so I'll probably try one door at the same time as an experiment. Luckily Ikea offers lots of different door materials - though nothing that matches red oak - and I haven't spent that much on these yet.

For the legs, I am using (or attempting to use) these from Ikea:



The piece at the bottom is supposed to be screwed to the floor, and then the legs lock into it. Well, that's the idea, in practice I've had some difficulty with it because of the design of the leg and bolt. Some modifications may be required to get it to work but I think it'll do the trick. I have yet to decide if I should attach the back half of the cut-down cabinets to the wheel-well boxes or just depend on their attachment to the wall just below countertop level.

For the latter I've also attached some horizontal strips of (painted) oak to the wall to spread the load of the cabinet attachments - the wall metal is so brittle from age that sheet metal screws don't hold at all well in it except when they can be put into a rib, so I've used a lot of rivets to hold the oak strips on in between the ribs, and then the cabinets can be screwed to the strips. In the original kitchen the countertops, decaying cabinets, and insecurely-mounted cooker had pulled pretty much all of the sheet-metal screws out of the wall in the kitchen, which is the situation I'd like to avoid repeating.
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:50 AM   #103
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Jacob, I assume those drawer glides are Ikea, too. Can you get them separately from the cabinets? I guess I ought to look in an Ikea catalog...

How are you going to keep the drawers closed while driving?

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Old 07-12-2008, 11:18 AM   #104
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Hey Zep, hopefully Jacob will chime in, but until then, I've installed Ikea cabinetry in my home and I can tell you that I believe the drawer glides come as part of the drawer assembly rather than as part of the cabinet assembly. If you understand the modular nature of the Ikea cabinet systems, that should make sense. I'm not sure if the glides can be sold separately or not, but you could definitely call Ikea and I'm sure they can help you.

One nice thing about the Ikea drawer systems is that they are spring-loaded to pull the drawer closed the last few inches. You can also buy dampeners (sold separately) to soften this effect, otherwise they snap closed pretty hard. Depending on the weight of items inside the drawer, this spring-loading MIGHT be enough to keep the drawers closed during trailer transit, but just to be sure I'd probably go ahead and use additional force like the rare earth magnets that I believe you and others on the board have used in the past. Or, obviously, you could install some kind of external closure mechanism as many people do, but that probably wouldn't maintain the clean look of the cabinetry.

Certainly not trying to speak for Jacob, just telling what I know.

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Old 07-13-2008, 12:04 PM   #105
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Please do! I'm a bit unreliable in my replies...

The Ikea drawers and rails are pretty much indivisible as far as I can tell - the drawers have metal sides and a particleboard bottom panel and fit right into the rails. One of the nice things about the Ikea stuff is that it's auto-aligning for the most part and very few fine adjustments need to be made (although they are possible if you need to).

The drawers come in two types, one that attaches to a cosmetic drawer front and one that goes behind a cabinet door. They don't run the full 24" but leave about 3.5" at the back, which is convenient for me for plumbing and electrics, etc.

I plan on using keyless camlocks to hold the doors and drawers closed, like these:
Keyless Thumb Turn Cam Locks


The drawers do have dampers that hold them closed, but I don't trust them e.g. on a long corner with a drawer full of cutlery. I like things that lock positively. Of course this means when you stop and start you need to unlock or lock whichever cabinets you use - I think that's okay though. An alternative for the doors would be to use the original knobs/catches that lock whenever you close them and twist to unlock, but I'm not sure if I could make those work with this setup.

Yesterday I bolted in the first four cabinets on the curb (kitchen) side - two more there, the countertop, doors, cooktop and sink to install, and then I have the fridge cabinet to do, and then I think I'll be focusing on the bed & bathroom plumbing...
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:34 PM   #106
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A few cabinet photos here. Here's one of the reinforcing strip on the wall used to keep the cabinets from tearing out of the sheet aluminum:


Here's the water heater and water pump that will be under the sink & cooktop:


So I bolted in 5 of the 6 cabinets I've done so far. Here's an overview photo:


The one that's not installed is the closest to the camera, where I somehow misaligned it by about 1/2". I can fix that, I just didn't yet.

The other five are: 24" cooktop cabinet with water heater underneath, 24" sink cabinet with water pump underneath, a 30" cabinet, a 15" cabinet, then a 30" wide tall cabinet.

The fit of the tall cabinet is not perfect but I can fix it with trim, I think. And part of it will be covered by the overhead cabinets once they're back in.

The kitchen cabinets are very securely fastened - bolted to fittings that are then either bolted to the floor, screwed into a crossmember, or glued directly to the floor in a couple of cases. Then they're screwed into the wall too, although the floor fitting keeps them very rigid anyway. Then they're also bolted to each other at top and bottom at the front to hold them in alignment. All in all it works pretty well and I managed to get everything square and level pretty easily.

The grey tank will be just behind the wheels, so the sink plumbing had to run back (to the right in these photos) through the next two cabinets, and then down and towards the middle of the trailer to get it over the frame rail. Here's the trickiest part:


That's the drain coming in from the left, dropping off, under the shelf it turns towards the camera and then drops through the floor, and a vent pipe goes up and into the wardrobe to the right and eventually through the roof.

You can also see that I had to route the water pipes through the cabinets too.

I tested the drain plumbing and it seems to work - doesn't leak, water comes out the right place underneath, so that's good... it would be better if it were going into, say, a tank, but that's another whole task.

So the next job is to fix the last cabinet and join the two pieces of countertop and install them, then put in the sink, cooktop, and finish up the plumbing here. Hopefully I'll be able to do a full test of the sink soon which is pretty exciting (in a boring way) since I never actually used the original sink (owing to the huge leaks everywhere in the original water system).

I fixed/simplified another piece of plumbing going from the water inlet to the sediment filter, here:


PEX bends. Useful to remember that! The valve here will connect to the freshwater tank fill pipe which will eventually be here too, so that it should be easy to fill the tank with filtered water when hooked up to city water with the hose inlet. In fact I doubt I'll ever use the fill inlet itself.

After the kitchen, the bathroom, the bed, and the fridge all demand attention. Not exactly sure which one will get it first, though.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:40 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Jacob D. View Post
Hello, I think this is my first forum post here, although I've been mining for information for a while...

I just bought a 1964 Overlander having wanted an Airstream for 10 or 15 years now, even before I moved to the US from England about 7 years ago - they're pretty famous there too. I'm very happy to have it, and of course it needs some work, so here we go.
Unfortunately, your axles are shot, as they are or will be on most all pre 1969 Airstreams.

The first project, unless you will have the trailer stored inside, is to make the exterior completely waterproof.

Gaskets, etc, are a must.

Ahhh, it's too early in the morning. I did not see the date of your original post.

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Old 07-14-2008, 11:36 AM   #108
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Heh. It's watertight now - but it wasn't for a long time during the winter of '06. But then, it was also indoors at the time.

I know the axles need replacement, yeah. It'll be a while before I get to that - they're adequate for the demanding task of sitting in my driveway, and they did fine in the 1400 miles I towed it from Texas, although very likely they contributed to vibration damage before I owned it. Well, that and the large rotted sections of floor. Not to mention the hail damage to the roof in Texas - you can't see it unless pointed out, but the roofline is wavy where the hailstones must have dented it between the ribs. The damage to the air conditioner shroud is much more apparent - big, big holes smashed in it... another thing that needs replacement, but not urgently given that Northern California weather rarely calls for A/C. And hopefully the new fans will cover most situations anyway - I'm mostly happy even at much higher ambient temperatures, it's just when enclosed spaces turn into ovens from trapped heat that there's a problem.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:55 AM   #109
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Here's a photo of the Utby Ikea legs in use:


You can see that I took off the black plastic foot exposing a 12mm bolt, and used stacks of washers to level them - they come with a nut that's supposed to be used for that, but I found it unusable except when the rise needed was more than an inch or so. They also have square sleeves that drop down over the feet which I didn't bother using because I'll be putting a kick panel over them in front, and a side panel that goes to the floor on the end.

The hole in the bottom used to attach it to the floor is just about right for a 1/4" bolt, or one of the self-tapping floor screws sold by V.T.S. for screwing into steel crossmembers.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:26 AM   #110
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Jacob - looking great! I like the maple / linoleum look too... even the green is growing on me.

Keep going, summer use could be near!
Fab!
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:54 AM   #111
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Which cab set from IKEA did you select? Also, are you going to do the streetside as well?
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:38 PM   #112
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The cabinets are their standard kitchen cabinets, the Akurum line. The doors are Sorbo and selected mostly for their, uh, inexpensiveness. I'm still not sure I'm happy with them, but they sure are cheap. And I may try relaminating them. I do like the Ulriksdal ridged oak doors but they're very expensive...

Summer use - I do plan to take it to Burning Man this year although I still don't have a truck. But this is a great time to buy a truck! I think I'm going to look for a used F250 diesel... the price premium over an F150 is not that much and too much truck seems like just enough, you know? An F150 would be fine, but...

Anyway, not much time before then! Obviously not much will be finished by then but I'm hoping to be able to use the kitchen and shower and maybe the bed. I have the previous water tank I can just throw in the back and run a hose from, and will probably use a portable greywater tank for wastewater, then carry it home in the truck and dump there. And you know, it looks pretty good from the outside so who has to know that it lacks a lot of important things on the inside? It's a big metal tent!

So, over the weekend I worked moderately hard, fixed the last cabinet with a lot of swearing and wrestling and still couldn't get it precisely aligned with the one next to it, but it's less than an 1/8th of an inch and only at the bottom, and I think I can adjust the doors to conceal it. I also cut and joined the countertop pieces, which went surprisingly well. Here's the join:


Here's a few photos of the whole kitchen - yes, I do know that the drawer handles are misaligned, the result of some measurement stupidity of course - I'll fix them or replace the drawer fronts...


I like the more open kitchen with the countertop running right back to the wardrobe better than the original with a divider there:


Of course, the overhead cabinets need to go back in as well.

And here's a photo of my cat in a bowl demonstrating that my liking for strange greens is not limited to just the Airstream:

OK, that was really just an excuse to post that photo. He's a funny cat.

I attached the countertop firmly to the cabinets and installed the sink and cooktop; the sink is fully plumbed in now, the cooktop doesn't have propane yet (neither does anythng else); obviously there will be a shelf in this cabinet once I've cut the slot for the tailpiece and water lines:


I poured a few pints of water down the sink; nothing leaks and the water drains successfully out where the grey tank will be, under the floor. I used silicone on all the strainer, tailpiece & P-trap joints because of its combination of flexibility and adhesive qualities.

Here's the cooktop cabinet interior - the only thing running inside this will be the gas line to the cooker:


Underneath that is the water heater and a bunch of plumbing bits. The shelf removes for access to those. I plan on putting a couple of bars across the shallow part of the cabinet at the bottom so bottles and other small vertical stuff can be stored there without falling out.

Here's the one place where I worked at weight-saving, in the bottom of the drawer cabinet:


I screwed that panel of thin laminated fiberboard down over the hole and it looks fine, not that anyone will see it anyway.

So, more doors, a couple more shelves and stuff for the wardrobe cabinet (and a hanger rail), a toekick, sanding and oiling the countertop, and then I am done for now with that side. Obviously later I will want to trim all the countertop/wall connections, put a side panel on the last cabinet, and so on, but I need to move on to other tasks. I'm pretty pleased with the whole thing actually.

I also worked a little on the cabinet above the front window; this is just a face panel, really, with the cabinet box itself being formed from the fiberglass of the inside end cap. The frame was solid enough but all the panels - like pretty much all the original plywood - was rotted and delaminating. So, I set to copying the rounded panels with a router and a copying bit, and glued one of them back in place so far:


The doors will also be replaced. I also sanded the red oak frame a little and under the very dark lacquer or varnish the wood was much lighter and more cheerful, so I intend to sand and refinish all the solid wood parts as I go. I used birch for the front panel, which I think looks okay, although I may stain it a shade or two darker.

I'll have to do the same for all the other overhead cabinets, and for those I'll also have to replace the bottom and side panels, which were 1/4" plywood. Shouldn't be too hard though.

Finally, I added a new lamp underneath the front cabinet, a 110V-only 5-spot halogen fixture that uses the sealed GU10 bulbs - there are other 12V lights but this one will be useful when on outside power. Hopefully it won't be right at head level when you're sitting on the couch...:
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:23 PM   #113
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Looking good.. from the angle of the pic, I can't tell that the drawer pulls are mis-aligned.

I forgot to ask, where did you source the perferated metal for your front window guard?
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:00 PM   #114
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I think it was onlinemetals.com, but I'm not 100% sure. The 2024T3 sheet I think I got from aircraft spruce.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:01 PM   #115
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Jacob, looking great! I missed your update as I was out of town on vacation, and then I went on a recovery mission of my own, and finally got a '63 Overlander. There are a lot of similarities between our units, though not now with your modifications of course!

Anyway, you did indeed reference onlinemetals.com as the source for your perforated aluminum rock guard back on page 1 of this thread. I remember because I recorded it in my resource list several months ago. I love the look of your rock guard, and am considering blatantly ripping off your design. Hope you don't mind!

Good luck on your continued progress.

-Marcus
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:48 AM   #116
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It's getting there! Looks nice! I know the feeling of a neglected thread! I haven't had a chance to even LOOK at the Silver Pickle since my second kid was born! :-0

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Old 08-15-2008, 06:35 PM   #117
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Please rip-off anything that you think might work! I was surprised that nobody had thought to use the perforated sheet for the rock guard before, to be honest. Just look at a Mac Pro for inspiration.

Hmm, where did I leave off last? I guess I didn't even have the battery installed. So, I bought a group-27 AGM battery, 92Ah, got it from West Marine. Also bought a new 12V fuse panel and a 300A shutoff switch, and got my battery cables at a car parts store. Here's the setup, although I'm not 100% happy with the battery box tie-down situation:



All that works great. I found one 12V circuit that seems to do nothing, but otherwise everything made sense and worked fine. I think the dead circuit is actually the one that went to the trailer connector to be used for battery charging from the truck. Well, I don't want to do that anyway, so I probably don't need that. Who knows? How bad could it be?

Nice to have 12V working again, I haven't had it for over a year since I accidentally left my big power converter in a box of stuff that got put in storage.

Next, I put the front cabinet back together with the new front panels, and the frame freshly sanded and lacquered:



I like the birch, but I like to have mixed kinds of wood next to each other too. I somehow made the right door about 1/4" too short, so I'll need to make another one, but not anytime soon because you know, it works.

I finally fixed every single last leak in the water system - the last being the water inlet, where I found that the hosepipe inlet that was screwed into the wall plate (which acts as a 1/2" FPT connector) was leaking because it had no sealing in the threads. A bit of Teflon took care of that. By the way, I highly recommend the thick yellow gas-type Teflon even for water, none of the joints I made with that leaked at all, whereas several (though not all) of the ones made with white tape did.

I installed the sink faucet:



The sink drains correctly, although right now it terminates in empty space under the floor. Ditto the shower and bathroom sink.

My girlfriend cleaned out the mildew from the fridge and replaced the freezer seals, and it looks very good now even though it's about 20 years old.

Next, I set up the new propane system, starting with new pigtails and regulator:



Then I installed the manifold, valves, and gas hoses:



So I should explain how this system is set up. Unlike the original, which was black pipe and copper, this is all rubber hose. The hoses are pre-tested ones from West Marine - expensive, maybe, but still one of the cheaper sources I found. Both ends have 3/8" female flare connectors, which fit the appliances and the gas valves I used. Inside diameter is 1/4". So, I have one 10' hose going to the manifold, and from there three hoses go directly to the other appliances - fridge, cooktop, and water heater. The latter has a 5' hose (being close to the floor and the manifold, and a high-demand appliance) and the others have 10' hoses. This is unconventional but I'm pretty sure I got the idea here. My take is that the hoses are as safe underneath as copper pipe, since they're wrapped in pipe insulation, and no more or less likely to leak. But the number of connections is greatly reduced from what you need with copper or iron/copper, and they're all grouped together at the manifold or the regulator.

The only problem I can foresee is the tubing being too small. That does not seem to be a problem right now, even running the water heater at full blast. I could fix it of course by finding some fatter hoses or substituting copper or CSST. As yet, no problem.

Making the connections was straightforward. All my threaded connections were good first time; a couple of the flare connections had tiny leaks that were easily fixed by tightening them. Of course overtightening would be bad, but I found that using 2 wrenches (one as backup) I could tighten it so it didn't leak but didn't break.

The water heater works great, which I'm very happy about since it was expensive, I think the 1-year warranty ran out, and I haven't had a chance to test it. It's an RV500 and fired up exactly as it should when I ran the hot water.

Ditto the cooktop, works fine, wish it had electric ignition though; and ditto the fridge, which after a few false starts ignited just fine. It has a push-button ignition and no electronic features, but I left it on for a few hours and it cooled the fridge down just fine. So, I'm going to continue to use it, because why replace it?

So, so far so good with the propane, everything works great, no leaks, easy installation.

I oiled the countertop:



Needs more, but I think it looks very nice.

What else? Hmm... let's see... no important news.

Oh, well, I did BUY A TRUCK yesterday. But you know, how important is that? I mean, it's not like I haven't had a tow vehicle for the 2 years I've had the Airstream. Wait... it is like that.

So, I got a brand-new 2008 Toyota Tundra 5.7L 2WD, Double Cab Limited, in a kind of bronze-gold with a tan leather interior. Navigation, power everything, it is a great truck. And I got it for a very large discount thanks to the total lack of other truck buyers right now. Gas mileage ain't so great - 14/18 - but I'll live. Now I need to sell my Subaru, cause it's still worth nearly $20k and I don't need both vehicles.



Basically I was planning to buy a used F250 diesel, then I wound up test-driving a new 250, and then a new F150, decided I could live with the smaller gas truck, nearly bought an F150 that night but came home to think about it. Realized that if I was buying new I could buy anything, and found that the top-spec Tundra - the Double Cab at least - could be had for around $30k, similar to the F150 Lariat Crew Cab. The Double Cab back seat is more comfortable than the F150, and for just a few thousand more I personally would rather put my trust in Toyota. The F150 was nice, but the Tundra was nicer. I understand that the new Silverado/Sierra is nice too, but I was unable to get any dealers to give me an actual price for an actual vehicle there - I have no idea why they were so reluctant when you'd think they'd be desperate to sell the hundreds of trucks cluttering up their lots.

So, pretty happy with it so far, the gas mileage sucks, but it's really nice. Lots of hard plastic, yes, but excellent fitting of parts and great design inside. So far so good, though I have yet to even hitch up the trailer.

Speaking of, yesterday I also got the Reese weight-distributing hitch with trunnion bars that I ordered. My trailer already has the snap-up brackets and the dual-cam parts installed, so I'm hoping that everything is still similar enough that I make a working dual-cam system out of the parts I have here. I need to get a simpler ballmount & ball for when I can't be bothered with the (extremely heavy) WD hitch though too.

Tomorrow and this weekend I hope to finish up some interior details, replace the ceiling fans with the Fantastic Fans I already have, and get set up for towing, because next Saturday I leave for Burning Man with the trailer... hence the need to buy a truck. Should be a fun trip! Sure, things are pretty rough around the edges, but I think it'll be fun anyway. I'm looking forward to trying out long-distance towing with a pickup instead of the big moving truck that I used to bring it back from Texas. I'll report back.
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Old 08-16-2008, 06:11 AM   #118
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Nice progress. I just bought a 62 Overlander a month ago and I'm getting quite a few things done but I'm not nearly as far along as you. I'm enjoying your posts and keep up the good work. That green color, although probably not appealing to everyone, looks great once you installed cabinets and window coverings. Did you install mini blinds? I'm new to this so I apologize in advance if this is lame observation, but won't they move around during trips and scratch up the walls? They certainly look nice though.

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Old 08-16-2008, 06:32 AM   #119
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Nice looking setup. The only concern I have is the battery box. You need to have a sealed enclosure that vents to the outside of the trailer. This will prevent poisonous and explosive gasses from getting into the trailer.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:26 PM   #120
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AGMs don't need venting, is my understanding. I know this has been gone over repeatedly here before, though. Now, once it's shut inside a cabinet I may vent it outside, which would be a pretty simple task. It's already in a suitable container.

The green, well, if I get sick of it I can change it, and thanks! To each their own, you know. I like it with the wood and the rest of it, although I might make some adjustments to the height that it switches to white for the roof (and may use a warmer off-white for the roof section).

The blinds are very cheap Ikea aluminum blinds, probably just a temporary situation. You probably can't see it, though, but there are magnets screwed to the walls at the bottom of the windows to hold the bottom bar of the blinds (which is steel) to the wall. If that proves not to be strong enough I'll try a more mechanical solution.

Congratulations on a new trailer too! I really like the early-60s Airstreams.
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