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Old 07-31-2012, 12:13 AM   #1
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1961 International Overlander - My new project

I'm pretty close to closing a deal on a '61 Overlander in overall good shape. I was looking to purchase it to house guests, but as I read more and more on these forums, I find myself getting more romantic about hauling it out on the open road from time to time.

I am a handy guy, from plumbing to electric, 12v, 120v, framing, millwork, all no problem. The only thing that has me worried is the axle problems I read about - I don't have the first idea (nor the tools) to deal with this sort of thing.

PO had it in his back yard, immobile for several (7?) years. He had it towed (10 miles?) to a storage facility a few weeks ago. I would like to tow it directly to my mechanic, to have him take a look under it.

What exactly am I asking him to look for? :-)
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:33 AM   #2
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If it has original axels, then they are shot. Unless they are springs. Am not sure on that year. If it is torsion they are done being that old. Mostly jus a bolt off and a bolt on process. Inland rv can help with the right axles, so the fit is perfect.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:36 AM   #3
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A 61 has rubber torque axles. The shocks are also likely shot. Floor rot from leaks is common and $ fixable. It may have no converter and will need one, if you are to travel with it. The plumbing valves are also in need of replacement. The water tank is galvanized steel and likely close to rusting out. There is no gray water tank in 61, so you will need to buy a blue boy. Have all the protrusions through the roof rechauked. The black tank vent is a particular problem and a source of leaks. With your purchase, you have made a down payment on a potentially great hobby.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:59 AM   #4
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With the belly being (mostly) in place, what can I see under it? Can I tell if the blackwater tank is leaking or if the freshwater tank is shot? Or is it all hidden under the belly?
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:47 AM   #5
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The black tank is above the floor, the brass black tank valve can be the main source for leaks . It can be rebuilt. But most people replace it with a modern valve. Your fresh water tank may be under one of your beds (twin beds?). It should have an air pump for the pressurized tank.

www.vintageairstream.com is a very good source for information on repairs. There is a link on their site on how to replace the brass black tank valve. There are photos on this site on how to rebuild it.

We replaced the torque axles & shocks on my '61 Overlander & some wielding was required. Some axle replacements may just bolt in. InlandRV can help you with this information.

Please post some photos of your new Airstream!
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:26 PM   #6
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Airstream parking spot, before and after. She comes tomorrow morning. Can't wait!

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Old 08-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #7
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Hope the trip home is a good one. Be sure to bring plenty of duck tape and secure all the roof vents. Don't ask me know I know. Also, if your '61 door is the same as my '59, and doesn't yet have a deadbolt, be sure to tie it down so it can't whip open while driving.

You do realize that the handle "photomikey" will cause a number of us to mark this thread looking for lots of pics.

Good luck!
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:49 PM   #8
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My baby was living in a storage facility. PO included a free tow with purchase, and I took him up on it (even though I had a vehicle to tow with, it is uninsured, untested, and I felt it best to have a pro do the job, especially seeing as how it was free).




Got her home and with a LOT of jockeying, got her in the space I needed her in. The neighbor chose this morning to start stuccoing his house, a disastrously messy procedure on a dwelling that is about 3' from the 'Stream. This is her about 1 minute after being parked and about 1 minute before being covered with a plastic sheet to protect her from the stucco. Please disregard the unpainted garage - the rest of the property is nice, but the garage is a dump and I don't have the scratch to have it torn down and re-built at this point.





I mentioned previously the black water tank valve was in two pieces - this is the piece that broke off (the valve) and the piece that I unscrewed from the trailer:



And the underside of the trailer where it came off:





A generic tour of inside the unit, before I cleaned up and got rid of some of PO's stuff:





















Interested in any musings at this point - Haven't decided what direction to go in or what to tackle first. A quick glance on the internet did not reveal the correct black tank valve I need. Any suggestions?
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:48 PM   #9
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Tap, tap, tap... is this thing on?
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #10
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photomikey,

Your '61 Overlander looks very original inside. To me, it looks like only the refrigerator has been replaced. In my opinion, it looks to me that someone modified the adapter that fits on the bottom of your brass black tank valve by adding a modern valve to it. The drain lines I see in the photo are for gray water that drains below the black tank valve. The brass valve should have a handle that comes out of the side of the Airstream that slides. Push the handle in to close the valve, pull to open it. I think someone added the valve in the photo to stop water from draining from the sinks & tub onto the ground, like when traveling. The bottom of your valve looks just like the one on my '61 Overlander

I hope this helps.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #11
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1961 International Overlander - My new project

Greetings photomikey!

Welcome to the world of Vintage Overlander ownership!

Quote:
Originally Posted by photomikey View Post
My baby was living in a storage facility. PO included a free tow with purchase, and I took him up on it (even though I had a vehicle to tow with, it is uninsured, untested, and I felt it best to have a pro do the job, especially seeing as how it was free).




Got her home and with a LOT of jockeying, got her in the space I needed her in. The neighbor chose this morning to start stuccoing his house, a disastrously messy procedure on a dwelling that is about 3' from the 'Stream. This is her about 1 minute after being parked and about 1 minute before being covered with a plastic sheet to protect her from the stucco. Please disregard the unpainted garage - the rest of the property is nice, but the garage is a dump and I don't have the scratch to have it torn down and re-built at this point.





I mentioned previously the black water tank valve was in two pieces - this is the piece that broke off (the valve) and the piece that I unscrewed from the trailer:



And the underside of the trailer where it came off:





A generic tour of inside the unit, before I cleaned up and got rid of some of PO's stuff:





















Interested in any musings at this point - Haven't decided what direction to go in or what to tackle first. A quick glance on the internet did not reveal the correct black tank valve I need. Any suggestions?
From the photos, it appears that your Overlander still has what is left of its original metallic Bargman/Thetford dump valve. These valves have been obsolete for quite some time. If you have the necessary hardware for the dump hose and the termination valve cap (all of these are cast aluminum parts that are obsolete and very nearly unobtainium), the valve that mounts to the tank can be rebuilt with new o-rings and seals. These valves were utilized through most of the early 1960s, but most owners have upgraded to modern Thetford valves (what Airstream used until very recently and of much higher quality . . . at a greater price), or Valtera valves (what most of the rest of the industry has used for years . . . cheaper with very short life expectancy). I have Valtera on my Minuet and Thetford on my Overlander . . . without question, the Minuet will receive Thetford valves when its existing Valtera valves are next replaced.

There are a few discussions of working with replacing these brass/metalic valves here on the Forums . . . some of them include the following:My suggestion based upon my experience with the two alternatives is to proceed with a replacement utilizing Thetford parts. The parts are a bit more expensive and can be a challenge to located but quality and durability are worth working around those two minor issues (IMHO). The conversion to Thetford fittings was done on my Overlander in the late 1970s, and those parts were still in use when the the tank was totalled as a result of being high centered on an asphalt county road about four years ago.

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:39 PM   #12
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Check forums member wagsrp photos on how to rebuild it. Member's Photos - Photo Gallery

Here's some info on replacing it with a modern valve:
http://vintageairstream.com/brass-thetford-dump-valves/
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:29 PM   #13
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Also, be sure to water test your Thetford Brass Valve for leaks before you assume it 's leaking. Just put some water in your black tank. If it does not leak & it opens and closes properly, then you may need to find an adapter to fit a sewer hose. Like Kevin said, they can be hard to find, new or used. The handle I mentioned earlier to open/close the original valve, on mine, is a square rod sticking out the right (curb side) rear.

Is that an outside table attached to the curb side near the 110 power cord? If so, how cool!!!

Good luck
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:00 PM   #14
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Looks pretty nice for such an old trailer. From the photos it seems like it has a newer AC, newer water heater and fairly new fridge (I just bought the same model, brand new, last year). You said it had been parked for 7 years. Do you know if it was used at all while it was parked? Seems the more they are used, the more likely they are in decent useable condition. I learned the hard way that an older Airstream that sat for a couple decades without use may look like a time capsule, but is really just a receipe for buying lots of new expensive RV appliances.

My two cents - check the water, gas and electric and see what works and doesn't work (except the furnace which you probably don't need much down in San Diego). If at least the electrical is functioning, get the wheel bearings repacked and the brakes serviced and go camping. Heck, even if the electrical isn't working - go camping at least once before you tear into it.

Longer term, start poking around under the cabinets and the beds to look for soft spots in the floors. Rotten floors are what cause the biggest restoration expenes.

As far as the electrical systems, figure out what has been done to it over the years. It started with a dual volt system with completely independent 12v and 110v wiring - you will probably find two light bulbs in each light fixture. At least as originally wired, one was wired to the 12v and one to the 110v. After all these years, and with the obvious updates the previous owner did like the fridge and AC, it may have had significant changes made to the electrical system.

Same for the fresh water system. Originally, it had a pressure tank either up front under the goucho or under one of the twin beds. These were pressurized with a small air pump to deliver water when not hooked up to city water supply and fed copper lines. That may all still be in place and if used regularly, might very well be servicable. But it could also have just as easily corroded into disrepair, froze and burst lines at some point (mine had and it came from the San Diego area), or it could have been all replaced with a modern system. I'd look it over and if it looks sound, hook it up to water. You'll know pretty quick if it's leaking.

Gas lines are another matter. Depends on your comfort level. They are not all that difficult to test with a bottle of leak bubbles. All the lines and connetions should be run under the belly and accessible from the outside. The only connections in the trailer should be the connection to the appliances themselves (fridge, water heater, furnance, stove/oven, and gas lamp). But if you are not comfortable working with propane systems, take it to a RV repair center to have it checked out.

If you want to do some fairly inexpensive, but very important, routine maintance to at least protect your investment from any further water damage. Start sealing the seams. Get yourself a bottle of Acryl R from Airstream's internet site, some dental picks to clean out the seams and run a bead of sealent along each seam. Chances are, several of them are leaking now and if you close them up at least you can slow down any damage that already occurred during the 2 1/2 inches of rain you get down there every year.

Have fun exploring your new toy and be sure to post some updates and photos.

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander & Sea View Post
In my opinion, it looks to me that someone modified the adapter that fits on the bottom of your brass black tank valve by adding a modern valve to it. The drain lines I see in the photo are for gray water that drains below the black tank valve. The brass valve should have a handle that comes out of the side of the Airstream that slides. Push the handle in to close the valve, pull to open it. I think someone added the valve in the photo to stop water from draining from the sinks & tub onto the ground, like when traveling. The bottom of your valve looks just like the one on my '61 Overlander

I hope this helps.
Indeed, it does help.

The valve that broke off does seem to be aftermarket. I do have the square rod sticking out from the side of the 'Stream right there, and it is stuck halfway between open and closed. It seems to be stuck because of a solid brown substance in the valve. Let's assume it's dried pudding, it will make it easier to disassemble and clean it.

I believe I have the original flexible drainpipe, but I have not confirmed.

Under the prior configuration (with the blackwater valve and the aftermarket greywater valve), the only thing closing the greywater would do would be to force the greywater up into the shower pan... right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander & Sea View Post
Is that an outside table attached to the curb side near the 110 power cord? If so, how cool!!!
Yes, I do have the table - glad you mentioned it, I assumed it was OEM, but it must be an aftermarket add on. It is not particularly stable, but will hold a couple of cold beers on a hot day.

I don't have an awning, so it'll still be hot outside!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbosa View Post
Looks pretty nice for such an old trailer. From the photos it seems like it has a newer AC, newer water heater and fairly new fridge (I just bought the same model, brand new, last year). You said it had been parked for 7 years. Do you know if it was used at all while it was parked? Seems the more they are used, the more likely they are in decent useable condition. I learned the hard way that an older Airstream that sat for a couple decades without use may look like a time capsule, but is really just a receipe for buying lots of new expensive RV appliances.
Newer A/C, Newer Water Heater (never used by my friend who has had it for the last several years, but apparently new when he purchased it), new fridge, which apparently runs AC, DC, or Propane. Looks expensive. I didn't ask.

The Airstream sat in his yard for several years, not moving. They did give it weekly use, but didn't do much maintenance on it. The tires are in bad shape, and it hasn't had the bearings packed since before he bought it several years ago. But it is (relatively) clean and everything works. It appears that the person who had it before him did some big-time maintenance (the A/C, water heater, fridge, re-piped it, and did some wiring).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbosa View Post
My two cents - check the water, gas and electric and see what works and doesn't work (except the furnace which you probably don't need much down in San Diego). If at least the electrical is functioning, get the wheel bearings repacked and the brakes serviced and go camping. Heck, even if the electrical isn't working - go camping at least once before you tear into it.

Longer term, start poking around under the cabinets and the beds to look for soft spots in the floors. Rotten floors are what cause the biggest restoration expenes.

As far as the electrical systems, figure out what has been done to it over the years. It started with a dual volt system with completely independent 12v and 110v wiring - you will probably find two light bulbs in each light fixture. At least as originally wired, one was wired to the 12v and one to the 110v. After all these years, and with the obvious updates the previous owner did like the fridge and AC, it may have had significant changes made to the electrical system.

Same for the fresh water system. Originally, it had a pressure tank either up front under the goucho or under one of the twin beds. These were pressurized with a small air pump to deliver water when not hooked up to city water supply and fed copper lines. That may all still be in place and if used regularly, might very well be servicable. But it could also have just as easily corroded into disrepair, froze and burst lines at some point (mine had and it came from the San Diego area), or it could have been all replaced with a modern system. I'd look it over and if it looks sound, hook it up to water. You'll know pretty quick if it's leaking.

Gas lines are another matter. Depends on your comfort level. They are not all that difficult to test with a bottle of leak bubbles. All the lines and connetions should be run under the belly and accessible from the outside. The only connections in the trailer should be the connection to the appliances themselves (fridge, water heater, furnance, stove/oven, and gas lamp). But if you are not comfortable working with propane systems, take it to a RV repair center to have it checked out.

If you want to do some fairly inexpensive, but very important, routine maintance to at least protect your investment from any further water damage. Start sealing the seams. Get yourself a bottle of Acryl R from Airstream's internet site, some dental picks to clean out the seams and run a bead of sealent along each seam. Chances are, several of them are leaking now and if you close them up at least you can slow down any damage that already occurred during the 2 1/2 inches of rain you get down there every year.
Water still uses the pressurization system. Don't know where the tank is yet, but much of the trailer has been re-piped - the waste system with ABS, the water and propane with copper. The freshwater system included a de-pressurization valve under the trailer, connected to 1/4" copper line, so you could drain the system. Who knew that a valve under a trailer connected to a 1/4" line would bend and eventually snap the 1/4" line? (*roll eyes*). So the freshwater won't pressurize until I cap or add a valve to this mangled 1/4" line.

If the big guy up above (God, or Byam... either one) is on my side, they will have replaced the freshwater tank. But they didn't replace the blackwater tank, so... I don't have my hopes up.

Still is dual-wired for 110VAC and 12VDC. Most of the 12VDC bulbs are missing. Where does one acquire these 12VDC Edison bulbs? I would like to replace some of them with LED. Any suggestions?

No leaks to speak of. No soft spots in the floor to speak of. As previously mentioned, our light weather may play a part in this.

Gas will pressurize, but I haven't lit any appliances yet. That gas lamp in the galley looks like a deathtrap. Do people still use stuff like this?

I think my furnace is missing some parts, the most notable one that I can guess at without having seen a working furnace is a big relay. I will take some photos when I start to worry about the furnace, which will be a while.

Thank you all for your replies. I will disassemble and attempt to re-build the waste valve at this point (this is supposed to be a low-budget project), but if it's a no-go, I will look into replacement parts.

Here's what she looks like, pulled into the back of the property:

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photomikey View Post
Under the prior configuration (with the blackwater valve and the aftermarket greywater valve), the only thing closing the greywater would do would be to force the greywater up into the shower pan... right?
Correct. They didn't have greywater tanks back then and would drain into a portable tank or into the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by photomikey View Post
Where does one acquire these 12VDC Edison bulbs? I would like to replace some of them with LED. Any suggestions?
LED 4 RV

Quote:
Originally Posted by photomikey View Post
Gas will pressurize, but I haven't lit any appliances yet. That gas lamp in the galley looks like a deathtrap. Do people still use stuff like this?
Actually, you can still buy a gas lamp exactly like the one in your photo. They work great. I use mine all the time and it works just like a lantern.

Trailer looks great in your back yard.

Norm
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:38 AM   #17
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Your axles are dunzo. They are not too hard to replace. I did mine all by myself (I recomend you bribe a friend with some beer) the hardest part was busting the frozen bolts loose. Nothing a cut off wheel and a sledge hammer couldnt handle. I ordered my axles from Colin Hyde. They arrived fully assembled and fit perefectly. You are also pretty close to Uwe at Area 63. He is a great guy with lots of advice and parts. I think he does Dexter axles, but he does install. In my opinion you dont need your mecanic to look at it, there isnt much mecanical going on. Maybe you can find a forum member near you to give it a once over with you. Good luck!
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:06 AM   #18
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How can I tell if I have the original axels? Or is it a forgone conclusion?
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:32 AM   #19
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photomikey-

Wow, you found a great one! You've also piqued the interest of some of the best posters on this forum to give you help. Congrats.

Let me add two other things to the long list of good ideas for you.

In the threads on valves and black tanks, you'll see talk of an adapter plate. If you need to replace valves -- or other parts for that matter, you may find Vintage Trailer Supply helpful. Here is the link to their Valterra page.

There is a great podcast for Airstream restorers called The VAP. Warning -- it is addicting. It will cost you time but save you money.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #20
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How can I tell if I have the original axles? Or is it a forgone conclusion?
In the picture of the wheeles above, do you see how low they are sitting? They should ride much higher. It is doubtful that the po ever changed them. They look pretty old, but if it is just going to sit (used for guests) I wouldn't replace them. If you are going to travel with your trailer I would replace them. Colin was an awsome guy to work with. Frank Yensen at Franks Trailer works Uwe at Area 63 Lance at Tops Texas Trailers all great guys. Heres my before and after....
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