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Old 09-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #421
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Oh, yea.. the pic I mentioned in the previous post.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:15 PM   #422
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I picked up the Todd Posi-Lock Table Post and am very happy with it. It's rock solid. ...
I have a design for a long, slender table that would need two legs. Can you screw the post into the floor fitting and then attach the top? I don't plan on being able to remove the table without unscrewing the upper flange(s).

Zep
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #423
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I have a design for a long, slender table that would need two legs. Can you screw the post into the floor fitting and then attach the top? I don't plan on being able to remove the table without unscrewing the upper flange(s).

Zep
Zep,

Yes. The lower flange is screwed in tight for a solid fit. Obviously, that is the critical joint for stability. The upper is a tapered slip fit.

John
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:07 PM   #424
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Zep,

Yes. The lower flange is screwed in tight for a solid fit. Obviously, that is the critical joint for stability. The upper is a tapered slip fit.

John
I just recently installed a simple double tapered system in mine, because I have an interchangeable center column that can allow the table to turn into the sleeper bed support. I tried to locate something that had the range of height I wanted, but all options that worked were more expensive than a new axle, and strong enough to dance on top of. So I went the simple route. It is a little flimsy in regards to allowing the table top to deflect at the edges by 1/2" if leaned on, but it doesn't rotate at all, even with no set screws. More firm than I had expected. I was considering lock pins, and didn't even need them. All in all, not a horrible way to go.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:44 PM   #425
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a word of advice with that pedestal... make a thick aluminum plate to bolt up from the underside of the floor to add stability to the unit. It will wobble a lot if just screwed down. You also have to drill a big hole through the floor for the base to sit on the floor. i have installed these before. Not a big fan of how they preform.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #426
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... and make sure the base is screwed in ALL THE WAY. If not, the plastic will break. West Marine is really good about replacing them(twice now).
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:15 PM   #427
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... and make sure the base is screwed in ALL THE WAY. If not, the plastic will break. West Marine is really good about replacing them(twice now).
Do you have one you do like? Or a solution you like?
(please forgive the "mini-hijack")
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:26 AM   #428
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Actually no. I wish I knew of something better. exposing the underside of the floor and making a big plate for the pedestal base to through bolt to will help a great deal in making it stronger.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:53 AM   #429
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Actually no. I wish I knew of something better. exposing the underside of the floor and making a big plate for the pedestal base to through bolt to will help a great deal in making it stronger.
That's a good thing to keep in mind for when I redo the front of mine, I'm going to want to do something similar with a pedestal table in a u-shaped dinette.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:54 AM   #430
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John, are you going to come through Austin again this time? Please give me a ring if you do, I'd love to see y'all again, I'm really sorry I missed you the last time.

-Marcus
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:04 AM   #431
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John, are you going to come through Austin again this time? Please give me a ring if you do, I'd love to see y'all again, I'm really sorry I missed you the last time.

-Marcus
Marcus,

I don't think we'll be in Texas this winter, but will be sure to let you know next time we come through. We will definitely be back -- we love Austin.

John
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:47 AM   #432
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We had a great week in Vermont, with no systems failures! We even caught up with Mr. and Mrs. Mutcth (Tom on this forum) for coffee.

Here are a couple of observations that I hope are helpful.

I love how simple it is to winterize with multiple drain points. We simply opened them and drove home. Winterizing the fresh water system is finished with no pink stuff. We will pour a little antifreeze in the traps and black tank -- enough to protect the dump valves.

I installed the Shurflo Revolution Pump that claims to be "super quiet" and doesn't need an accumulator tank. I like the pump, but will add an accumulator and some soft hose to quiet it down. We had an accumulator in the Caravel and it apparently makes a big difference in pump operation, especially when using just a little water while dry camping. Without the accumulator, the pump had to come on for every drop of water and seemed to struggle with low flow, chattering on and off. After having a perfectly good system in the Caravel, I should have remembered "don't make changes, only improvements".

I love how the Grey Tanks disappear into the frame, but there are issues with having pancake-style tanks just below the floor. Mary isn't happy with the water rising in the shower trap as the tank fills. Does anyone know if replacing the old cast trap with a Hepvo Valve will eliminate the problem? Draining is slow unless you tilt the trailer at the dump station like the picture below. This may be a little excessive, but it is the last drain before winter.

Mileage was very close to the Caravel. The 9 foot longer Overlander made very little, if any difference in mileage. This time it was loaded with everything but the finished dinette. We got 15.2 mpg on the highway and 17.1 on the back roads, despite all the hills. I didn't log every detail on the Caravel vs. Overlander, but the mileage differences are very small. I have to agree that air resistance is WAY more important than weight.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:12 AM   #433
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There seems to be more interest in table and dinette issues, so I'll provide more detail.

After 62overlander's warning, I checked the table post base for cracks and see none. I'll keep it screwed in tight. I continue to be very pleased with the purchase.

The picture below shows the setup we had for this trip. Since we haven't installed the dinette seating, we used a set of Leg-O-Matic chairs that were given to my parents in the 50's.

We had multiple meals with 4 people at the table and found it to be stable. In addition to the post, we used the VTS Table Wall Mount to secure the forward end of the table to the wall. The table is 52 x 32 and gives plenty of room for 4 for dinner.

I've also attached a not-to-scale concept drawing for the seating that would work well with this table. Note that it has a narrow bench seat over the fresh water tank. By keeping the forward seat narrow, we don't sacrifice the ability to seat 4 at the table. This version of the drawing shows the big table removed, replaced by a small cocktail table. Some may refer to this as "Pre-Game Mode".

To switch table versions, an additional Round Table Plate is needed. Note on that link that the post can be purchased in several lengths.

The only other design we are considering is an angled cabinet over the water tank. In addition to the storage it would provide, it could be designed to make the two bench seats into very comfortable lounges. This design would eliminate the small bench over the water tank and require us to carry a Leg-O-Matic or two if we plan to entertain.

Interesting choices.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:10 AM   #434
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I did not mean to dampen any campfires, I just wanted to pass on my personal experience with the product. I think the wall bracket a stellar addition that can only aid in keeping it firm.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:38 AM   #435
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I love how the Grey Tanks disappear into the frame, but there are issues with having pancake-style tanks just below the floor. Mary isn't happy with the water rising in the shower trap as the tank fills. Does anyone know if replacing the old cast trap with a Hepvo Valve will eliminate the problem? Draining is slow unless you tilt the trailer at the dump station like the picture below. This may be a little excessive, but it is the last drain before winter.

No personal experience but I would think the Hepvo fitting would prevent back up into the tub, however it's also going to eliminate the tub as a "vent" so likely your flow will be even slower. How about going low tech like this?

Shower Drain Plug

I know it doesn't fit all drains but maybe yours.

The only other action would be to add another vent somewhere. But I doubt you'll see a significant increase in the outflow.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #436
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Great updates John. The trailer looks nice. I also jack the tongue up pretty high to make sure my last drain of the season is complete before winterizing. We have gray tanks that hang below the belly pan and experience similar draining problems. I plumbed ours just as Airstream did originally and the lack of a proper vent on the bathroom plumbing really slows things down. I've noticed that the early California trailers had a plumbing vent that went up through the vanity and looks like a pole in the middle of the bathroom. Some have said that was required by California plumbing codes at the time. Not sure if that is true, but I suspect it made for better drain performance. I've also noticed vent pipes forward in the kitchen on trailers built just a few years after ours. Could represent some improvements in plumbing design as Airstream and their customers learned from experience.

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Old 09-22-2013, 11:03 AM   #437
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Good to see both of you too! The trailer is looking great.

I'm always amazed by how "right-sized" an Overlander feels; everytime we step in one we're impressed by the room.

Agreed with the aerodynamics-vs-weight equation for fuel economy: our fuel economy actually suffers without the sea kayaks on the roof. They smooth out the transition between the roof of the Durango and the forward cap of the AS. Having them or not having them matters more than the Minuet vs. Safari mileage difference.

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Old 09-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #438
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No personal experience but I would think the Hepvo fitting would prevent back up into the tub, however it's also going to eliminate the tub as a "vent" so likely your flow will be even slower. How about going low tech like this?

Shower Drain Plug

I know it doesn't fit all drains but maybe yours.

The only other action would be to add another vent somewhere. But I doubt you'll see a significant increase in the outflow.
We do have a drain plug for use anytime we move the trailer. We use this, which was a tad cheaper. Forgetting this plug when moving the trailer provides a great way to see how dirty your grey water is. Don't ask me how I know.

We vented both grey tanks with 1 1/2" pvc and flex pipe. We run it though the old heater vent at the forward end of the galley. I will install the cover when the galley is finished.

I should have been more clear with the water level issue. It isn't coming into the tub at all -- it just starts to rise in the trap. Keep in mind that a full grey tank is about 3/4" below the floor surface. If I had it to do over again, I'd seriously consider putting the tub on a piece of 1" plywood to raise it just a little more.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:36 PM   #439
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....

I've also noticed vent pipes forward in the kitchen on trailers built just a few years after ours. Could represent some improvements in plumbing design as Airstream and their customers learned from experience.

...

Norm
Thanks, Norm.
That's where we ran ours. Hopefully it's the right choice.

Based on Colin Hyde's explanation, the slow drainage issue is due to the forward tank funneling into the connecting pipe, then having to funnel again into the drain pipe. Pancake thin tanks look great, but drain slowly.

I'd make exactly the same choice again, but want to be sure to pass on experience -- warts and all.

Hopefully we'll make it out your way some year soon. It would be great to compare the two.

John
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #440
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I did not mean to dampen any campfires, I just wanted to pass on my personal experience with the product. I think the wall bracket a stellar addition that can only aid in keeping it firm.
No worries. Thanks for the heads-up.
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