Honda EU2000 x 2 vs Honda EU3000 and Yamaha 3000

[IntegrityAir]

In researching the Honda EU2000 in parallel vs Honda and Yamaha 3000s, I eventually talked to Speedway sales in Milwaukee area. Riz, the owner, sells and is very informed on both. His experience indicates the Honda, while not spec'ed as such, will maintain a higher output in the range of 3000+ watts, for 30 minutes, as opposed to 30 seconds for the boost feature of the Yamaha. He says it will handle heavy loads better overall. However, two EU2000's in parallel will provide 4000 watts startup. As for brand, from my personal experience with generators, including Generac, Onan, and Honda, I've found the Honda to be the most trouble free and easiest to maintain of any out there. I still have a 2500 unit, which saw extensive service for my daughter in the Grand Forks great flood of the Red River last decade. Still works flawlessly.

Personally, after much research into this area, I've decided on two EU2000's paralleled together as opposed to the EU3000. The primary consideration was weight, but there turns out to be other advantages. With the EU3000, at 134# minimum, I would have to use a ramp or lift to handle it as I travel mostly alone. The EU2000’s weighs in at only 46# each. Also, in parallel, the 2-2000’s will provide greater max [and startup] capacity, 4000 watts vs 3000. From a fuel consumption standpoint, with an 13,500 BTU A/C load, which is my primary concern, both the 3000 and 2-2000's will run close to the same amount of time, and the 2-2000's will use less fuel. Here's the calculation:

EU3000: Fuel tank = 3.4 gal. Runtime = 7.2 hr at full load, 20 hr 1/4 load.
This equals about 1/3 gal per hour full load and 1/6 gal at 1/4 load.

EU2000: Fuel tank = 1.1 gal. Runtime = 4 hr at full load, 15 hr at 1/4 load.
This equals about 1/4 gal per hour full load and 1/14 gal at 1/4 load. Since there will be two units in parallel, the should be doubled, but then multiplied by 3/4 since the parallel units output 4000 watts vs the 3000's 3000 watts.

If you assume a load of 2400 watts for an A/C unit after startup running continuously, this is about a 3/4 load for the EU3000 and a 6/10 load for the 2-2000's. Assuming the fuel consumption curve is linear for both setups from 1/4 load to full load [which it probably isn't but will be close enough for our calculation], the EU3000 would consume about .3 gal/hr with a runtime of about 11.5 hours, and the 2-2000's would consume about 1/6 gal/hr for a run time of about 9.2 hr. While the 2-2000's will have a slightly shorter runtime, their fuel efficiency is substantially greater, since their combined fuel supply is 2.2 gal vs 3.4 for the EU3000. Overall, at this load calculation, the 2-2000's are attaining 4.2 hr/gal vs the 3000 at 3.4 hr/gal.

There are of course other factors to consider, although cost won't be one of them, since net cost will be about the same. These other factors include: the security of the heavier unit from a theft standpoint, the greater start capacity of the paralleled units, now 4000 watts total, the electric start vs manual start, etc. But for this old[er] body, the ability to manage the individual weight of each EU2000 far overrides these other differences.

[driftwood]

IntegrityAir,

Take a look at THIS ...
Then THIS ...

Could be your answer, especially since you have a late model AC.
I have been using a EU3000is for a couple of years and thinking of going this route.
They have a 2800 also.

[IntegrityAir]

Norm
Did lots of research on startup loads, and this Yamaha unit will not handle the startup required. Need at least 3000 watt generator. Thanks anyway.

[IntegrityAir]

PS
Even the Yamaha 2800 isn't recommended!

[driftwood]

Did you read THIS thread - M&M CAPECOD represents adequate operation with an in-service track record.
I know my EU3000is runs everything I need in a tropical or desert climate ... but takes two men & one boy to muscle it around.

Suit yourself! Personally I'm going to Tri-Fuel when I get around to it, and something under 100#'s fuel included. Other criteria, Quiet!

[rmanalang]

IntegrityAir,

In terms of noise, how are your two EU2000 running in tandem?

[Silvertwinkie]

I am leaning myself at the Yamaha propane unit. I don't initially plan on having the 15k BTU a/c unit run off the generator, but in getting the 2400 series that runs on propane, I don't have to lug around gasoline too and I can keep it in the coach or Suburban when in transit and not fill the compartments with a smell like the local gas station or garage. Additionally, the 2400 unit can also be run together with another like unit so later on down the road if I really want to run the A/C unit, two will do the trick. Another plus is if I need to run it off regular gas, I could do that too.

The 3000 unit is a good unit, but very bulky and heavy. Whatever brand you go with, from what I've read here on the forum and doing some research into it, going the 2 unit route seems to be a good way to go.

It is true that the Hondas are great units, with that there is no question. However I'd have to tear apart the carb to make it run off propane too which is a fairly big concern for me, even being mechanically inclined.

For me when I get around to it the initial purchase will be a 2400 Yamaha, and a good chain/lock set to keep it's feet from walking away.

BTW, it's nice to see another North Shore person into Airstreamin.

[vajeep]

I started this thread a while ago:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...onda+2000+3000

I decided to go with the 2 Honda EU 2000 and the parallel kit. They are easy to carry and I only take both when we might need the A/C. I have a plug in at our house that I can hook up one or both if we loose power. As far as the gas smell, I travel with a 2.5 gal tank (empty) and fill it up just before we get to our site. Just before we leave I pour any unused gas into the Burb's gas tank.

[vajeep]

Originally Posted by rmanalang

IntegrityAir,

In terms of noise, how are your two EU2000 running in tandem?

No real difference in tandem, Although in tandem they do run at a lower rpm. If you get a chance go to your local Honda dealer and ask for a demo.. You will be suprised just how quiet they are.

[Pick]

Typically you can expect 7-9 hours on a single tank of fuel with the EU2000i, running on Eco Throttle. I got about 7 hours during the evening, and 9 during sleeping hours in last years hurricane season.

Our friends boondock with their "Fiver" just about every weekend on a vacant lot that they own near us. They run an EU2000i in the cooler weather that we are having now. They get about 9 hours per tank of gasoline.

[Wardinbb]

Hi All,
I'm looking into generators. I'll go with propane. The recent Airstream Life featured a nice article comparing the Yamaha gen sets. The 2800 seems to me the best bang for the buck compared to the 2400; it's slightly smaller, weights 6lb. less, has 500 more watts and can be converted to propane while still able to run on gasoline (that's where the Hondas fall short), all for an extra $60.00. Now the main difference vs. the 2400 is that the 2800 won't connect to another 2800 and it runs 7 to 11 db louder than the 2400.

I was at a music fest last weekend, several hundred SOB's, not one A/S! But plenty of Honda 2000's purring quietly. Very soft sound.

As the Honda 2000 and the Yamaha 2400 are close in db levels, how bad is another 7 to 11 db's? The A/S Life comment was the 2800 was louder than the others tested, but still way within campground limits.

Any first hand observations on noise levels or a good example what 10db sounds like?
Ed

[2airishuman]

wardinbb

measuring sound and explaining loudness is difficult.

basically decibels (1/10th of a bell) are a measure of the force of soundwaves, or the relative intensity of sound...the force doubles about every 8db but the scale is in 10th for ease in calculations and calibration of equipment....

so every 8-10dbs the force doubles....

so 16dbs is twice as much as 8 and
....24dbs is twice as much as 16 and 4 times 8....
....32dbs is twice as much as 24 and 8 times 8.....
....40dbs is twice as much as 32 and 16 times 8db.....

....100dbs (concert music, jets, copters) is more than 2000 times louder than the softest sounds the human ear can perceive.

i don't have the actual numbers for the 2 gensets, but if one is 50 and the other one 57 to 61 (7-11lb louder)....that means it is more than twice the loudness....

the force of sound drops off as one moves away from the source...so every few feet the force (dbs) drops.....

and of course the loudness measure (db) doesn't tell us what tone/frequency the noise contains....
is it mostly very low rumbling....which carries better over distance but isn't as annoying.
is it mostly very high squeeling....which drops off sooner but is more annoying.
or is it a mix of highs/lows that will be heard by different folks differently depending on their hearing ability....or hearing loss.

normal speech is 20-50 db, indoor group conversation up to 60-70dbs.

most cars/trucks are at 65-75 dbs...inside...so you need to speak louder than that to be heard in a car. car makers spend lots of money and effort reducing interior car noise by just one db! the quietest luxury cars are about 61-63 dbs, while most trucks are twice as loud at 70-74dbs.

standing right next too most new generators, folks can speak at normal loudness...move just 10 feet away and the sound drops off significantly. with the 7-11db louder unit....folks would need to move further from the unit....for the same 'quietness'.

most older adults can hear these modern generators up to about 50-60 feet...as a very low machine sound.

folks with really good hearing are the most bothered....since they can hear them at up to 100yds.....

while some of us (me) cannot hear them...right under foot!

hope this helps...

cheers
2air'

[JimGolden]

On this topic of generators, I am looking at building a new frame of a deeper section for my Airstream and lengthening the tongue to accept a pair of the Honda generators. I was also planning to install an automotive type fuel tank or cell between the frame rails up front. Probably one from a pickup or an aftermarket race car cell. That way I'd have 30 gallons or so of fuel available for the gensets. I'd set it up with a filler cap in the side of the coach and it'd be just like the fuel tank for the tow vehicle. Fill it up once and be good for a lot of camping.

Any reason why I wouldn't want to do this? I'd either remove or louver the belly pan in this area so that the tank would be open on the bottom and sealed off on the top. I'd think it'd be just like a motorhome's setup then.

Thoughts?

[JimGolden]

Oh yeah, to echo what's been said above...when I started looking into this, I found that the Hondas were indeed quite a bit quieter than the Yamaha's.

I was also thinking the twin Hondas. That or a really big Onan. I'm not at the point of purchase yet so still deliberating...

[2airishuman]

jim

there are several excellent threads on generators....and lots of posts from folks with the hondas that show customized installs , boxes and so on.

someone here has a shelf extending from each side of the tongue, with 2 hondas. another shows moving the lp tanks forward with space for the honda over the center.

you should search some for these threads....lots of great pictures too and you can explore your idea by reading what others reports works...or doesn't.

i would not want 30 gallons of gasoline attached to my trailer....anywhere.

besides the obvious safety issues this will add alot to the tongue weight and with 2 gen sets....your nose will be very heavy. also want to check the ncc for your trailer....it's not large.....and this install will eat some of it.

a cleaner approach i've seen reported here is to mount the gens in the bed of the truck with an wiring link to the trailer....still the issue of gasoline in the bed...

just how much generator power is needed....?

i don't run the a/c so 1 honda 2000 is enough. using it for morning & evening ac current needs and to recharge the batteries....only amounts to 2-3 hours per day max....and one gallon of gas will last many days....

cheers
2air'

[Wardinbb]

Jim,
First off I'd really consider the propane model. And please note that the spec for the Honda calls for 89 octane, which may be different than your TV.
Also the Yamaha's will adapt to LP/nat gas and retain the ability to use gasoline. My reservation about the Honda is once adapted to LP, that's it, can't go back to gas by turning a valve. And I agree with 2air above, the load and nature of the cargo on the tongue may not be the optimum configuration.

2air, thanks very much for the acoustic refresher. With your two finger typing skill, we all appreciate your effort. The fest I was at is helpful to bring a lot of things home. The Honda 2000 was very quiet and I will just guess here that to double up the sound, the Yamaha 2800 is still gonna be quiet with a capital Q. Like the article said, it's louder but well within campsite limits. And my anticipated use is similar to your actual experience. The other thing that I find appealing about the Yamaha 2800 is the 30amp outlet. As I've just installed this convention, it makes sense to me to have that direct connection without an additional electrical pigtail adapter. Those puppies can get pricey!
So ain't it the truth, I've got all the logical conclusions and still sittin' on the fence! I should shop at Camping World more often, where they don't list specs or details and ya just buy the darn thing and go see if works for you later!
Ed

[JimGolden]

Some good points guys. What about an Onan diesel powered one then? I know diesel isn't volatile like gasoline and so would be safer. Another question might be how long can you run 4000 watts (two ofthe Hondas) on a 40lb propane bottle?

I was just thinking that gasoline or diesel is much less pain to get than filling the LP bottles. And if I had a 30 gallon tank, I'd fill it once and be good for all season most likely. I really didn't think it'd be dangerous as it'd be far away from the stove.

2Air, showing my lack of knowledge here, but what is the NCC? Is that a gross weight rating? If I proceed with this, I will be going to a heavier frame with a higher gross weight rating than the original. I want to be able to carry my KLR650 a rear carrier. I know that's verbotten with the 4" flexi-frame, but with the one I've designed, it'd be no problem at all. No monococuqe stresses on the shell anymore. That would take some weight off the tongue, though it would be less than the 330lbs that the bike weighs. The gen sets and a spare tire would regain that while still being less than what my truck could handle. I'd have to work the weight and balance, but if it was too heavy without the bike on back, I could probably put the spare on the back.

[vajeep]

Jim,

We have the 2x EU2000 Honda's. I don't think that we used over 10 gallons of gas for the summer. We had one trip to Bristol NASCAR race in August were we had to run both for most of the weekend. We try to go to cooler places where we do not have to run both. With out the A/C we only run the one for about an hour or two for the battery. Or if we need the toaster or if Mama needs to blow dry her hair...
I don't like storing gas for long. Not sure if this has any merit, but we always empty our gas can back into the Burb before we leave.

[dmac]

NCC is Net Carrying Capacity.

If you are thinking of placing a 330 lb motorcycle on the back of an Airstream trailer... the moment arm to the axle is huge (say 330 lbs * 10 feet = 3,300 ft lbs!) You must be planning on a monster frame substitution! Even so, I wouldn't do it! Placing two Hondas (~100 lbs) on the front would help balance this, but the stress on the trailer is immense.

[Pick]

JimGolden, there is about 9.5 gallons of propane in a 40 Lb bottle. I find the propane to be less of a pain then gasoline. No spillage, or leak problems. Don't have to worry about gas can falling over and spilling. I have a 34 gallon propane tank in the bed of my truck, gives me lots of EU2000i runtime!!