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Old 05-15-2008, 06:32 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobeTrottin
I spent a long time reading all over the web about tires, talking to tire guys and trailer owners, etc. The only tire I found almost nothing bad about was Maxxis, so I just bought a set for my Globetrotter last week. Actually had to order them through Discount which took a few days. As with everything in life, I hope I made a good choice. So far they are black, round, and hold the trailer off the ground with great consistency.
Me too, me too!

The tires do seem better than my Canadian made Marathons. My sidewalls on my Marathons before even being a year old were looking odd. Though I heard that was typical of the Marathons, the Maxxis tires don't look the same. I think JCanavera has over a few thousand miles on his Maxxis "E" rated tires, or pretty close. His 4 year old Marathon tread seperated as he was backing in his trailer into his driveway. He has the E cause the slide out, but I have the standard "D". So far with just under 1000 miles, all seem well so far.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:24 AM   #322
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We had our second Marathon blowout on Tuesday while returning from Tennessee. We plan to install four new Maxxis E rated tires as recommended by Jack and several others on this thread. The Marathons had been carefully maintained, lots, of tread remaining , and we were driving under 55 mph when the blowout occurred.
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:03 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhayden
Go back and look at the comparision to the Yokohama 700x15LT. The truck tire is four pounds, about 14% heavier. Extra material means extra cost in manufacture. The ST tires, all of them, are pared down to the bare minimum.
All of which begs the question, if we consider that the statement regarding all ST's being "pared" down to be accurate, then it's not illogical that those folks whose trailers currently are equipped with D rated tires, should seriously consider moving to an E rated ST tire. Will the ST E rated tire carry that cushion of safety that the D's are not providing today?

I'll be honest with you all that was one of the deciding factors as to why I went from D to E's when I replaced my Marathon's.

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Old 05-15-2008, 03:20 PM   #324
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Michelin and many other tire manufactures have stopped makeing trailer tires altogeather. Those that are still being made are now made in China.

I have been tring to get a D rated tires for my daughters trailer and there are none made. Even tried to get LTs but none are made in the size we need. The wheel well is too small to accept whats out there.

As for my Airstream I replaced all the wheels with 16 in and am now using E rated Michelin LTs.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:39 PM   #325
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I've always used GoodYear tires on my trailers for the past 31 years. I've never had the problems that I read about on the rv forums. These tires are rated for a towing speed of 65 MPH. I just read a thread about a tire blowout on a trailer that was being towed at 75 MPH.

My neighbor was getting ready to leave on a trip with his travel trailer. The tires were the GoodYear Marathons. I noticed one was low on air pressure. He said he had checked the pressure the day before. The valve stem was leaking air. The wrong valve stems were being used. These were the original tires from the rv factory.

If he had been traveling on the road when the tire pressure dropped and the tire blew out I'm sure he would have found fault with the tires.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
... it's not illogical that those folks whose trailers currently are equipped with D rated tires, should seriously consider moving to an E rated ST tire. Will the ST E rated tire carry that cushion of safety that the D's are not providing today?
Jack
It sure seems logical to me that not running a tire at the upper limit of it's load rating and inflation would give you an added margin of safety. Tire manufacturers do provide tables of load vs inflation. A "rock hard" tire does not necessarily equate to low rolling resistance or less heat build up. A properly inflated tire is what work best. In the case of my '78 Argosy the owners manual says to inflate the tires to only 40psi. To do that and still meet the load spec wouldn't I have to start with a load range E tire.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:40 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
I have been tring to get a D rated tires for my daughters trailer and there are none made. Even tried to get LTs but none are made in the size we need. The wheel well is too small to accept whats out there.
What was the original size? I've found that tire dealers don't always give you the whole spectrum of choices. Most are only interested in spending a minute or two looking through the catalog of their primary supplier(s). Even worse is the guy that "looks it up on the computer". I think they're used to 99% of their customers just buying whatever they tell them is right. And for 99% of the applications it's pretty straight forward.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:50 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
All of which begs the question, if we consider that the statement regarding all ST's being "pared" down to be accurate, then it's not illogical that those folks whose trailers currently are equipped with D rated tires, should seriously consider moving to an E rated ST tire. Will the ST E rated tire carry that cushion of safety that the D's are not providing today?

I'll be honest with you all that was one of the deciding factors as to why I went from D to E's when I replaced my Marathon's.

Jack
Hi, I'm still doing good with my original Marathons. Load range D, on a 6,300 lbs GVWR Safari, but I would be very concerned having the same four tires holding up under your larger and much heavier trailer. Load range E tires probably should be on all two axle trailers over 7,300 lbs GVWR.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:08 AM   #329
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I have had most if not all of the experiences with trailer tires listed in this thread (middle of a national forest, old tire sold as new, etc). One tossed a tread but continued to run on the steel belt for another 50 miles, still holding pressure. The slight bump I felt didn't alert me to the problem. The rest shredded, with accompanying damage. My Airstream is stored inside, most of the time without weight on the tires. I have had three failures in the last 3 years, four in the last five, and five in the last seven. Age (over 3 yrs) seems to be the common denominator. Curiously, I ran four tires on a car trailer bought in '94 for seven years before a failure, and that was after towing it 2200 miles in four days, loaded to the gunwales .

I have come to believe that today's trailer tires are generally of poor quality (junk) because no one is getting killed so no one is getting sued. I now watch all passing cars for the dreaded "pointing at the trailer" gesture.

I am considering switching to a truck tire, maybe even a bias construction. While tandem axle trailers do drag the tires in a tight turn, I cannot believe that it is more stressful than turning the steering wheel of a 3/4 ton pickup when sitting still.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:21 AM   #330
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"I cannot believe that it is more stressful than turning the steering wheel of a 3/4 ton pickup when sitting still."

seeing is believing! try watching a tripple axle swing on a turn.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:33 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhayden
What was the original size? I've found that tire dealers don't always give you the whole spectrum of choices. Most are only interested in spending a minute or two looking through the catalog of their primary supplier(s). Even worse is the guy that "looks it up on the computer". I think they're used to 99% of their customers just buying whatever they tell them is right. And for 99% of the applications it's pretty straight forward.
The tires I am trying to replace are 205 75 R 15s Goodyear has them but only in C rating and that is just too close to the limits for confort.

Yes the average tire salesman could not tell you if a tire is blown up or stuffed. I have never found one that has any idea that there are inflation charts based on load. If they miss that fundemental point size would realy through them.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:45 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, I'm still doing good with my original Marathons. Load range D, on a 6,300 lbs GVWR Safari, but I would be very concerned having the same four tires holding up under your larger and much heavier trailer. Load range E tires probably should be on all two axle trailers over 7,300 lbs GVWR.
Good observation. Especially since we all now know that there are E rated ST tires out there. Is anyone aware of any other ST E rated tires out there other than Maxxis?

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Old 05-16-2008, 10:30 AM   #333
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how much rubber is enough?

LT tires and 'over rated' tires may cause issues too...

side wall stiffness and the related thickness of the sidewalls is critical for passenger tires.

slip angles and maintaining the contact patch and concepts that go with the 'friction circle' are all impacted

BUT most trailer tires just need to ROLL and carry load, except for backing/parking and pot holes and curb jumping and other abuses that no claims every happens to their tires!

this means adequate air, these are pneumatic tires so they function best inflated and with a HIGHER aspect ratio (again few will admit to ever towing underinflated...

the gym has a thin sidewall and this ads to the suspension characteristics of the tire...

i'm not defending the design or built parameters that gy or other ST tire makers use, but soft/flexible is good for the stream...

going to bias ply or e rating or LT tires WILL stiffen the ride.

and u can be sure that any loose rivets, frame/shell separation or insides that shake loose...

WILL be blamed on using 'non spec'd tires'...

while i agree jacks 30slide is a beast, the WHEELS are only rated to 2200lbs each and adding tire capacity doesn't change that.

cheers
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:03 PM   #334
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Why tires fail

There are many other factors that also contribute to tire failure that I haven't seen mentioned here. Consider all the factors that cause tires to fail:

underinflation
overloading
overinflation
improper rotational balance
"leveling block stress"
scrubbing the sidewalls on curbs
jumping curbs
potholes, bumps, etc
debris (nails, screws, bungee cords etc)
sharp turns
hot conditions (ambient temperature, dragging brakes)
out-of-alignment axles
age (oxidation)
ultraviolet light (sunshine)
chemicals
...

Can anyone who has had repeated tire failures (of any brand) confidently say they've eliminated all these factors as a contributing cause?

I've made no secret of the fact that we've had three tread separations in the past six months. Each happened to a different brand: Towmax, Goodyear, Trailer King. The cause in our case seems to have been mis-aligned axles, which were corrected in September but had already caused internal damage to the tires.

For good professional info, try these articles:

SUBARU.COM : TOOLS : TRAILER-TIRE SAFETY

Tire Tread Separation Anxiety - Discount Tire Co.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:50 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
...

while i agree jacks 30slide is a beast, the WHEELS are only rated to 2200lbs each and adding tire capacity doesn't change that.

cheers
2air'
To that end I definitely did not go to E rated tires to allow me to carry more load capacity. My trailer isn't rated for more than 9,100 lbs. So technically 4 D rated Marathons are rated higher than what my trailer is designed to carry.

My intentions were to add some additional strength and margin between my normal towing load and the tire's top end. That I'm hoping will translate to better tire life and resistance to road hazards. Only time will tell.

I'm leery of going to E rated truck tires also and I'm hoping that the E rated ST's will not add that much stiffness to the ride. I'm carrying about 10 psi more pressure in my E rated ST's (75 psi), which is 5 psi below max inflation. So far in my initial tow from STL to Fl. last fall, nothing visually showed up to indicate that the trailer was experiencing a rougher ride.

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Old 05-16-2008, 04:08 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
...So far in my initial tow from STL to Fl. last fall, nothing visually showed up to indicate that the trailer was experiencing a rougher ride.

Jack
i suspect they will do nicely, but you will need 20+ years of towing to equal the gym record right?

one nice thing is the tires could be inflated to 75-80 psi during storage and winter...

that should help and there's no down side, when not moving.

cheers
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:49 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
how much rubber is enough?

LT tires and 'over rated' tires may cause issues too...
But if you follow the inflation tables you're not 'over rated'. To be honest I can't tell the difference between 28psi (low) and 38psi (high) in a car. The diffence in 3/4" wide bicycle tires however is a different story. Many new clincher style tires are rated as high as 140psi and a lot of people mistakenly believe that running them at max pressure will result in minimizing rolling resistance. In fact the opposite is true. A rock hard tire will not only be uncomfortable it has higher rolling resistance and less grip. Michelin is one of the few companies that provides inflation tables based on rider weight. Tests with wattage meters (sort of a dynamonitor on the bike) prove that rolling resistance of a well constructed tire is almost constant over a wide range of pressure. The key is matching the presure to the road surface. Compliance, and therefore ride quality is determined by pressure. Conversly a poorly constructed tire has a higher rolling resistance no matter what the pressure.

All radial tires have more flex in the sidewall than the old bias ply. Sidewall construction is secondary to inflation but it's hard for me to believe that ST tires with their larger diameter cord used in the casing are going to have a more compliant ride than a tire designed for "creature comfort" as in a light truck or SUV.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
going to bias ply or e rating or LT tires WILL stiffen the ride.
Odd, back when radials first came out they had the reputation of a harsh ride. Marketing guru's in Detroit came up with the slogan, "radially tuned suspension" to sell the US public on the virtues of radial tires. The rest, as they say, is history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
while i agree jacks 30slide is a beast, the WHEELS are only rated to 2200lbs each and adding tire capacity doesn't change that.
But, the point is, according to the inflation tables they can be run at a lower pressure which I believe more than offsets an additional stiffness (if any) of the tires construction.

-Bernie
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:24 AM   #338
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Hi all,

In another thread we described our Goodyear Marathon separations (4 out of 5 tires that came with our 2005 30' Safari bunkhouse). We decided to move to 16" rims with Michelin XPS Rib LT225/75/R16 LRE tires. The tires are E rated with a load capacity of 2335 lbs. at 65 psi. Michelin recommends these tires for RV use (you can see the site here: Michelin Americas Truck Tires XPS RIB® Page

We have had them on our trailer since last July with approximately 5000 miles use and are very happy with them. We have experienced no issues with things shaking loose in the trailer or rivets popping as some have worried about given the expected rougher ride.

We are both scientists by training, and one of the great scientific principles is Occam's Razor: that all else being equal, this simplest explanation is usually the correct one. It seems to us that all of the separation failures described can be most simply explained by lousy tires - to postulate that every person who has a Marathon fail has misaligned axles or unbalanced running gear etc. is ludicrous.

It all comes down to money. Remember the Ford Explorer/ Firestone tire separation debacle? Of course Goodyear wants to make tires as economically as possible. Airstream also wants to keep their costs down, and their relationship with Goodyear satisfies this criterion. However, this may not be the best path to follow as a consumer.

Some people have had very good luck using Marathons on their trailer. We did not, and so adopted an alternative that we are very happy with. Our only purpose here is to make people aware of viable options.

Bye
Paul and Miriam
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:02 PM   #339
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Marathon Tires

Hello all:

Just read Paul's comments on his fix for faulty Goodyear tires. We experienced a failure of one tire on our 2004 30 ft. Classic just before a trip last summer. There was a huge separation on the inside sidewall and only 40 lbs. of air in the tire. Fortunately the tire was still under tread warranty so it was exchanged for a new tire now made in China. While at the Goodyear dealer there were three more Marathon tires returned for the same separation or thrown treads. We went on our trip and had another tire fail on the return trip home on I-5 a week later. The trailer started to sway quite a bit as we passed a truck at 60 MPH. The evening before we left for home this tire read 60 psi while the others read 65 psi., this is the first hint of problems with these tires. I inspected the remaining two road tires, one on each side, and found number three failure starting. You can see little or no area between the spaces on the tread especially on the edges, it looks like there is none. And looking straight across the tread one side is higher than the other a sure sign there is a separation. I believe there was about 6,000 miles on these tires.

When we returned home we were looking for replacement tires but found nothing but Chinese made tires. All the bad stuff about Chinese products was on the news, poison dog food, tire recalls, lead in children's toys etc. I did not want to experiment with Chinese tires. We saw Paul's article and I called him. He gave me all the current information on his experience and we went ahead with the same rims and Michelin XPS rib tires. Total cost $1,700 for five new rims and tires. We have made only one trip since we installed the new tires as we had pet problems at home and could not stay away too long. We experienced no problems with a rougher ride even on the miserable freeways in California. We both felt the trailer tracked the truck direction much better and seemed just to tow better than the Goodyear tires. We have kept the trailer up on stands all winter and I do rotate them about 1/2 turn every month. I have to add I have more confidence in tires 'Made in Germany' vs 'Made in China.'

Yes they were expensive, about double what all five new trailer tires would have cost but when you have this much invested in the trailer the security of knowing you will not have to worry about tire failure means a lot. Just like the Michelin tires on our tow vehicle, I don't worry about them either.

Some people have excellent service life with the Marathon tire and I believe there are circumstances that promote long tire life. I believe using the trailer much more than we did during the three years of ownership, wife was still working at the time. I also believe we need to jack stand our trailers if we don't use them for long periods, Goodyear's own manuals say to take the weight off trailers for long periods of non-use. And finally, many trailers weigh less than the newer trailers so less weight means less stress. We were just in an opportunity with two blown tires and a third failure waiting to happen it was an opportunity to make a clean break away from a product we felt had no track record on quality.

Paul Warenycia/KA6NFP
Roseville, CA
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Old 05-19-2008, 12:04 AM   #340
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popping rivets

Hi, I had a commercial truck with an [Grumman Olson] all aluminum riveted body on it. I drove this truck for eight years. At about seven years, I noticed a few rivets had popped, so I replaced them right away. My point being: rough roads, out of balance running gear, stiffer tires, body flexing, and too stiff of suspension on your tow vehicle, can and will, in some cases cause rivets to pop, but don't expect it to happen over night; Expect it to happen in a few years down the road. Also everytime a rivet pops it puts more strain on the next rivets in line, so replace them as soon as possible.
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