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-   -   wheel/tire recommend for single ax. overlander (1957) (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438/wheel-tire-recommend-for-single-ax-overlander-1957-a-9717.html)

p.dow 02-29-2004 06:29 PM

wheel/tire recommend for single ax. overlander (1957)
 
hi - i have not gone t anywhere locally yet to ask this question.
i have however tryed to answer it by checking some of the posts here.... but i am not sure what i ought to be getting...

but let me try this....
would 2600# wheels and 225/75R 15 D tires .... work ?

the 57 overlander at present has ...
split rims and 7.00/15 heavey duty tires
this is a single axel unit, so i only have two tires supporting .

thanks
paul

:)

dtbw 02-29-2004 06:39 PM

That seem about right
 
What you are considering is in line with what our 2002 Bambi uses. The Bambi's gross weight is 4500#s for comparison. The ST225/75R-15/D is the exact tire that it uses, but be SURE that you are getting 6ply, NOT 6 ply rating. And have them install 150psi rated METAL valve stems as these tires will need to run 55psi minimum to carry the load (60psi is better as it gives a bit of a safety margin). Most tires shops install rubber stems rated at 60psi and I had one of these catastrophically fail due to what appeared flexing.

david

markdoane 02-29-2004 08:38 PM

Wheels and Tires
 
David is right. You also want to check the springs and especially the U-bolts holding the axle to the springs before you go too far. Also, take a look at the shackle bolts and hangers. Most of the hardware is 5/8" grade 8, rather than commonly used 9/16", but not hard to find at most hdwe stores. Good luck and have fun!

p.dow 03-01-2004 04:30 AM

marathon radial ?
 
thanks for the heads up on the valve stems.

would these tires be the marathon radials ? or are these the H/D
truck type tires that i ought to be getting ? (like the truck type tire that is on the trailer now).

also i was wondering what is the difference between a tire that is
6 ply rated and a tire that is simply 6 ply ?

thanks

paul

:)

overlander63 03-01-2004 06:30 AM

Re: marathon radial ?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by p.dow
thanks for the heads up on the valve stems.

would these tires be the marathon radials ? or are these the H/D
truck type tires that i ought to be getting ? (like the truck type tire that is on the trailer now).

also i was wondering what is the difference between a tire that is
6 ply rated and a tire that is simply 6 ply ?

thanks

paul

:)

Marathons would be good. They are 6 ply ries. The difference between 6 ply, and 6 ply rated, is that a 6 ply tire actually HAS 6 plies, whereas the 6 ply rated tire is most likely a 4 ply tire, rated to carry the load of the 6 ply. Not nearly as good.
You really don't need the 8 or 10 ply truck/trailer tires. Those are built for lowboy trailers hauling payloaders and backhoes.
Also, tell me about you split rims. Are they the type that is like the old truck rims, the part where the tire rides is in two pieces, with a tube inside the tire, or are they the type that is a whole rim, with nothing in the center, to be wedged against the brake drum/inner wheel?
If they are the two piece type, with a tube, you would do good to try and find a different pair of wheels, as that type of rim is dangerous, and has been outlawed.
Terry

markdoane 03-01-2004 06:57 AM

Tires and more tires
 
Paul,

Regarding your heavy duty tires question:

LT tires are for trucks.
ST tires, like the GY Marathon, are for trailers.

So you shouldn't use Marathon tires on a truck.

Part of the reason is that truck tires are built differently. They are sometimes mounted on a steer axle and require better sidewall flexibility for good steering response.

Trailer tires also have more UV protection, because they sometimes sit for long periods and the surface dries out.

I disagree with the actual plies vs rated plies issue. Although I'm not sure you will run into this problem if you go with Marathons. The actual number of plies is not important to me if the manufacturer is reputable. With so many materials and constructions available, I think the ply rating is more important than the number of plies. I'd rather have a well built 6 ply rated tire from Goodyear than a chinese tire with 8 actual plies.
I think the ply thing is a relic of the old days when most tires were bias construction, then bias/belted, then steel belted, then one ply radial belted (passenger car tires), then todays radials.

If it's a 'ST' tire specifically built for trailers, then the load (ply) rating is important and I don't care how many real plies it has.

overlander64 03-01-2004 07:24 AM

wheel/tire recommend for single ax. overlander (1957)
 
Greetings Paul!

I agree that the Good Year Matathon ST225 75 R-15 tire should be an appropriate tire for your single axle Overlander. My reservation is whether you may be getting very near the maximum weight rating of the Load Range D tire when fully loaded for a vacation. While I haven't had to address this issue with my Overlander as the tandem axles became standard issue in 1961 (I am running Load Range D Marathons on 2,600 pound trailer rims that were new when the tires were last replaced and a Gross Coach Weight that maxes out at 6,100 pounds); one of my friends with a 1960 has had to address this issue. I know that he is in the process of replacing his tires, and he is seriously considering going to the Load Range E Marathons (usually a special order item from your Good Year retailer) - - this also may require a different rim in order to have a rim with a rating equivalent to the weight carrying capacity of the tires. The question to ask is just how much does your coach weigh when loaded for the road?? - - and how much of a reserve cushion is provided?? If your loaded coach is at or very near the maximum for the Load Range D tires, going with the Load Range E tires should provide a nice reserve cushion.

Good luck with your decision!

Kevin

dtbw 03-01-2004 07:29 AM

Actually GY is the 6-ply tire
 
When I purchased the new tires for our 2002 Bambi after the valve stem affair, the tire dealer first talked me into Carlisle tires. He told me that the GYs would have to be ordered if I wanted them. As I had both rims off the A/S, I let them mount the Carlisle tires and I took them home. Before putting them back on the A/S, I decided to take a long look. I noticed first that they were 6 ply rated (4 ply tread, 2 ply sidewall). Then I noticed that they were made in China. It took me about 5 seconds to decide that I had made a mistake. I called the dealer (Discount Tires), and told them to order the GYs. They gave me full credit and did not charge for dismounting the Carlisles and mounting the GYs, but the GYs did cost a bit more than the Carlisles.

BTW, the GYs are 6 ply tread, 4 ply sidewall and I will take that over a tire with wanna-be "ratings" any day.

david

markdoane 03-01-2004 08:41 AM

Goodyear a six-ply?
 
David,

I think we're in total agreement than Carlisle chinese tires are less than adequate and that Goodyear tires are great.

My point is that the Goodyear Marathons are 4-ply tires with a 6-ply rating. The load rating is based on the sidewall plies. The 2 additional plies in the tread don't contribute to the load rating; they contribute to puncture resistance, tread wear, and directional stability.

This is the issue I wanted to raise regarding your initial comment about 6 ply "actual" vs 4 ply/6 ply rating. I would pick a 4 ply sidewall Marathon with a 6 ply rating over a 6 ply 'actual' chinese tire.

So I think we're in total agreement, just quibbling about the definition of how the plies are counted. :D

47WeeWind 03-01-2004 08:50 AM

Paul:

Another consideration on vintage trailers, and perhaps or perhaps not with your 1957 Overlander, is tire width compared to wheel well width. The 700-15s were tall and narrow tires compared to today's short and plump tires. The 700-15s were enough of a battle to get out of and into the wheel well. A plump radial tire might not fit into the wheel well at all without first removing the grease cap on the end of the axle, which makes removal and mounting much easier. To avoid later conflicts, I suggest you tow your trailer to the tire dealer and have him recommend the maximum size and rated tire that will fit over the axle hub and up into the wheel well. Also, search this Forum's archives and the VAL archives for discussion of this tire fitment topic. There are answers out there but I haven't earmarked them.

dtbw 03-01-2004 09:23 AM

Yes we are in agreement
 
Don,
There is no doubt that we are in agreement. The tread ply is the rating that is commonly quoted and the sidewall is seldom mentioned though. Both the Goodyear and the Carlisle ST trailer tires have 2 ply sidewalls, BUT the Goodyear tread is true, 6 ply (2 polyester + 2 steel + 2 nylon...I just checked the tires on the A/S). The Carlisle tires had a 6 ply rating but were only 4 ply (2 polyester + 2 steel). BTW, it was when I noticed that the Carlisle tires were made in China, that I stopped dead in my tracks before mounting them back on the Bambi. They may be excellent tires, but I didn't want, "no stinking Chinese tires" on my American icon (but I would have put Michelin if I could have gotten them in the rating/size/etc).


david

markdoane 03-01-2004 09:49 AM

No stinking chinese tires
 
David,

Yeah, stay away from tires made by a company that mostly makes golf cart and lawn tractor tires.

When you first brought up the 'actual' vs 'rated' plies, I thought maybe you were referring to older 'bias' ply tires, where a 6-ply tire actually had 6 plies from bead to bead. I not sure how common these are anymore.

p.dow 03-01-2004 06:37 PM

57 overlander dry/wt = 3,170 lbs.
 
last night as i was looking through some posts here i found a link that listed all the A/S trailer tongue wts and dry wts.... but now i cant find it.
but i did write down the
57 overlander dry wt of 3,170 / tongue 260........ and
62 tradewind dry wt of 3260 / tongue 400........ and i thought wow... the overlander is older/bigger but yet it is lighter and i was wondering how this could be ?

both of these trailers are single axle. but the above wts are refering to the unsprung wt. that is the wt of the trailer that rests on the springs/axle. right?

the split rims are the type that has the retention ring on the outer most part of the wheel. it snaps and locks into its place as the tire is inflated. they are tube type tires. if precautions arnt taken when inflating them injury can occur.

also i was looking at wheels and it looks like the 2600# is the max for 15/6 wheels..... i was wondering if those 'E' designated load rate tires( the special order ones ) are 15" or are they for 16" wheels? thanks paul :)

Over59 03-01-2004 06:42 PM

Weights
 
The chart is on the Airstream Site and not easy to find..

http://www.airstream.com/product_lin...faq.tea#tongue
and
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/p.../weights-1.pdf

overlander63 03-01-2004 07:10 PM

Re: Goodyear Marathon= tubeless?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by p.dow
last night as i was looking through some posts here i found a link that listed all the A/S trailer tongue wts and dry wts.... but now i cant find it.
but i did write down the
57 overlander dry wt of 3,170 / tongue 260........ and
62 tradewind dry wt of 3260 / tongue 400........ and i thought wow... the overlander is older/bigger but yet it is lighter and i was wondering how this could be ?

both of these trailers are single axle. but the above wts are refering to the unsprung wt. that is the wt of the trailer that rests on the springs/axle. right?

the split rims are the type that has the retention ring on the outer most part of the wheel. it snaps and locks into its place as the tire is inflated. they are tube type tires. if precautions arnt taken when inflating them injury can occur.

also i was looking at wheels and it looks like the 2600# is the max for 15/6 wheels..... i was wondering if those 'E' designated load rate tires( the special order ones ) are 15" or are they for 16" wheels? thanks paul :)

Aren't Goodyear Marathons supposed to be tubeless tires? Another reason to think about changing rims.
Terry

overlander64 03-01-2004 08:43 PM

wheel/tire recommend for single ax. overlander (1957)
 
Greetings Paul!

Quote:

also i was looking at wheels and it looks like the 2600# is the max for 15/6 wheels..... i was wondering if those 'E' designated load rate tires( the special order ones ) are 15" or are they for 16" wheels?
My understanding was that the tires were 15". I also think that one of the factors in the deliberation was that finding a steel wheel with the necessary weight rating was proving difficult - - there are aluminum wheels with up to 3,600 pound trailer rating - - I was looking at a set for my Overlander that complimented the new wheels on my Cadillac - - I think that the aluminum wheels with the 3,600 pound trailer rating were $280.00 each. (special order price). I know that the tire/wheel dealer that I was working with had access to numerous manufacturers and had one that listed steel wheels in the 15" size for trailers with up to 3,600 pound trailer weight ratings - - since I was only considering switching to aluminum wheels I didn't pursue further information on the steel wheels that he mentioned.

Good luck with your tire/wheel purchase!

Kevin

minkus 03-25-2004 09:46 PM

Some more info on split rims (rentention ring style) please.

I am lucky that my '67 tradewind has one piece rims, and with the 2 axels, the weight is a little less.

But we just got a '51 Silver Streak Clipper, single axel, that has a bizar center hole. It has the old style ford 5x5.25 bolt pattern, but the center hole is a lot bigger. The local wrecker of all things truck never saw such a thing. So I just might be stuck with the orininal splits.

Sooooo, I too always heard that they were dangerious, and outlawed and all that, but exactly why. I just dismounted on of mine and can see why they were developed, you can actually do it yourself without special equipment. CLEARLY, it must be all about the rentention ring. It is obvious that crud and rust fills in the grove the ring seats in, and a bad seat would allow the ring to fly off during inflation. If the grove was sandblated, and the ring wire brushed, and everything nice and clean, where would the problem be?

Thanks, Bruce

Inland RV Center, In 03-26-2004 08:33 AM

Bruce.

To remove "ANY" rust, will also remove some of the metal, further weakening the ability for the ring to stay in place.

Many people have been severely hurt and a few have been "KILLED" doing exactly what your doing.

Good luck and make sure your life insurance policy is current.

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!

:( :(

Andy

minkus 03-26-2004 05:32 PM

Well, insurance is all paid up. No kids, so all the wife really needs is enough to put me in the ground. I wouldn't want to argue Andy, but a little more theory would be of interest.

As for the tires themselves, I just got back from Goodyear and was told;

1) the E series is discontinued. I told them that the chat line says different, but he is sticking with his story.

2) that no matter what they say, there AREN'T 6 plys, but only 6 ply rating. Again I said that the chat line says different.

3) his price was $105 for the tire.

Oh well.

Tarheel 03-26-2004 05:42 PM

Most all of the old trucks used split rims. It was not uncommon in the 50's and early 60's to hear of people getting killed inflating tires with split rims. I can't remember hearing of anyone getting killed installing tires on one piece rims.

Rick


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