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-   -   Lithium Battery - 2012 (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449/lithium-battery-2012-a-94562.html)

doublebubble 07-31-2012 07:17 PM

Lithium Battery - 2012
 
On my '06 16' CCD I've replaced the power supply/charger with an Iota. I also have the factory installed 55 Watt Solar package, but find the group24 battery lacking for amp hours. The ideal solution would be the new Lithium technology. Does anyone know if Am Solar is bringing out a Lith battery or some other source for a 100Ah Li battery. Note at a reasonable cost.

lewster 07-31-2012 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublebubble (Post 1181588)
On my '06 16' CCD I've replaced the power supply/charger with an Iota. I also have the factory installed 55 Watt Solar package, but find the group24 battery lacking for amp hours. The ideal solution would be the new Lithium technology. Does anyone know if Am Solar is bringing out a Lith battery or some other source for a 100Ah Li battery. Note at a reasonable cost.

Not for a while..............:brows:

doublebubble 07-31-2012 09:29 PM

I think I've read every post Lew has made and I've made mods to my Bambi based on those posts, so thank you Lew.
Us 16' owners with only one battery are in the unique position of being totally under batteried for boondocking. So I'm likely going the 2xGC2 route, however I'm not happy with the added tongue weight as we tow with a car.
The cost for me to install the 2xGC2 is about $400 although I might find the batteries cheaper at Costco. If i could get Li for $800 - $1000 :blush:

TG Twinkie 08-01-2012 08:19 AM

I don't know what the difference in weight between a marine type group 24 battery and a LI battery (if there were one of that size) but 100 ampere hours is just that. An LI battery of the same AH capacity would not be a gain. IMHO.
Now if a LI battery of the same physical dimensions had a larger AH capacity, then you would have something. But what would the cost be?
We recently camped off the grid for 10 days with a single group 24 RV/Marine battery (Wal Mart) without any problem. The answer is. I installed an 85 watt solar panel (portable). Total cost; about $250.00.
Just my $.02 worth.

pattonsr 08-01-2012 12:25 PM

A Lithium battery is much lighter than a lead battery and smaller. Plus available amps are 80% rather than the 50%. Plus charging is much faster since Lithium has none of the AGM quirks such as the last 20% (absorb) takes forever and you must fully charge once in a while or useful life is shortened.

Lithium does not care if you stop charging at anytime. The life is the same.

Downside is expensive upfront and bleeding edge technology. I am aware of a Sprinter converter who says they are coming out with a brand new model that will feature 4 Lithium batteries for a total of 400 amps (320 amps useable). I do not know what inverter/charger they will use. I am only familiar with Victron. For an extended Sprinter this combination makes more sense than 4 Lifeline AGM's and a Magnum inverter/charger. Light weight, small footprint, more useful amps and faster charging. But we shall see if this system shows up.

Barry

AWCHIEF 08-01-2012 02:30 PM

BESTGO Lithium Car Batteries

Could these be used in a trailer? They are designed for electric cars and such.
I have a friend that works for Toyota, he says the battery pack for their hybrid is over $7000 cost to Toyota per unit.

Wazbro 08-01-2012 06:37 PM

AWCHIEF I believe they would work with 4 in series to get 12.8V, kind of expensive and you only get the AH of 1 battery not the 4 added together.

overlander63 08-02-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublebubble (Post 1181641)
Us 16' owners with only one battery are in the unique position of being totally under batteried for boondocking.

Why not take a page from the original Bambi? The battery was outside the trailer, usually the tow vehicle's battery, and connected to the trailer with a simple two prong plug. You can do the same with a marine battery box and carry strap, and wires from the additional battery to the one on your trailer. Double battery life, and not much in the way of complications or heavy lifting.
When you get to a place with electric to hook up to the trailer, hook up the second battery for a recharge.

Protagonist 08-03-2012 06:16 AM

Mastervolt makes a 12v Lithium-Ion battery, model MLI 12/320, which is rated for 320 amp-hours. Supposedly good for up to 2000 charge cycles, way more than an AGM. Size might seem kind of odd for those used to wet-cell and AGM; it's 24.53" long 7.83" wide 13.58" tall. Weight of one battery is 121.5 pounds. Price for one battery is a whopping $7,121.30 at one source I found.

It's interesting technology, but at those prices, I'll stick with AGMs.

mandolindave 08-03-2012 07:33 AM

I have poster this before but....
 
A friend of mine just bought a Tesla ( all electric sports car ) It is powered by 77 laptop batteries. Zero to sixty in under 4 seconds!!!!! I don't have the data or technology to implement a design but maybe this will be the wave of the future for boondocking campers.

Protagonist 08-03-2012 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandolindave (Post 1182845)
A friend of mine just bought a Tesla ( all electric sports car ) It is powered by 77 laptop batteries. Zero to sixty in under 4 seconds!!!!! I don't have the data or technology to implement a design but maybe this will be the wave of the future for boondocking campers.

I suspect that people who think that electric cars are good for the environment haven't considered the problem of how to dispose of all those batteries.

TG Twinkie 08-03-2012 08:44 AM

Not only disposal. How much energy does it take to make the things. Plus, it still takes electric from the grid or other source to recharge them.
When considering the manufacturing cost, don't forget the climate control system in the factory that makes it. Even if in China it takes energy.
Like tires today. I'd bet there will be a disposal fee to get rid of the old battery(s).

Skater 08-03-2012 10:28 AM

You know, you could take the 10 seconds to simply go to their website and find out what they have in place for recycling the batteries, instead of spreading FUD.

Protagonist 08-03-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skater (Post 1182929)
You know, you could take the 10 seconds to simply go to their website and find out what they have in place for recycling the batteries, instead of spreading FUD.

"FUD" What's that? Not familiar with that acronym. I can guess what the FU means, but the D?

Anyway, Tesla is not the only car maker using lithium-ion batteries, and not everyone is doing it the way Tesla does. Disposal of several hundred pounds of batteries, per vehicle, will be a problem five years of so down the pike, whether you're talking about the Volt, Prius, or whatever. And that's not even addressing the large boating market for lithium-ion batteries, either.

I was speaking in generalities about batteries, not specifically attacking Tesla, or attacking your friend for buying one. I don't have any particular beef with Tesla. I don't know enough about Tesla to even have a beef with them. Please don't take generalized comments as a specific attack.

Ever since I saw Timothy Hutton driving a fire-engine red Tesla in an episode of Leverage, I've thought they were fine-looking vehicles. I wouldn't trade my Interstate for one, though.

dznf0g 08-03-2012 10:54 AM

Actually, it is not a problem. The car LI batts (I speak for GM only) are good for about 10 years give or take, dependant on many owner/environmental variables. (they're warranted for 8). But at that "end of life" they're not done. They are just no longer suitable for the duty cycle of automotive demands.

These batteries have an estimated additional 20 years of life as a backup energy source. Two markets are emerging for used auto batts. Individuals are looking for them for personal solar/wind energy storage systems. And power companies are looking for them to create "neighborhood" backup energy storage stations which will help level out peak usage time draws on the generation source.

After an estimated 30 YEARS of use, they are recyclable, for the most part.

overlander63 08-03-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist (Post 1182945)
"FUD" What's that? Not familiar with that acronym. I can guess what the FU means, but the D?.

It stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt".
There are a couple of people on this forum, and of gcourse people on other forums, that take advantage of FUD to promote their own ideas and businesses.

Protagonist 08-03-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g (Post 1182950)
Actually, it is not a problem. The car LI batts (I speak for GM only) are good for about 10 years give or take, dependant on many owner/environmental variables. (they're warranted for 8). But at that "end of life" they're not done. They are just no longer suitable for the duty cycle of automotive demands.

These batteries have an estimated additional 20 years of life as a backup energy source. Two markets are emerging for used auto batts. Individuals are looking for them for personal solar/wind energy storage systems. And power companies are looking for them to create "neighborhood" backup energy storage stations which will help level out peak usage time draws on the generation source.

After an estimated 30 YEARS of use, they are recyclable, for the most part.

Cool.

Wazbro 08-04-2012 06:36 PM

Some Nascar teams have switched to lithium batteries that weigh 6 pounds.

Protagonist 08-04-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wazbro (Post 1183583)
Some Nascar teams have switched to lithium batteries that weigh 6 pounds.

I'm sure those are starting batteries, not house batteries. Not at all the same thing. I wouldn't mind having a 6-pound starting battery in my SUV, though.

Wazbro 08-04-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist (Post 1183587)
I'm sure those are starting batteries, not house batteries. Not at all the same thing. I wouldn't mind having a 6-pound starting battery in my SUV, though.

Not sure if that makes a difference with lithium batteries, but they do use 2 separate batteries to run the car from in case the alternator quits.


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