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-   -   Lets Fix WBCCI (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/lets-fix-wbcci-76235.html)

Howard Lefkowitz 04-15-2011 09:29 AM

Lets Fix WBCCI
 
Since I played some part in setting up the committee that put together the new Constitution I feel the need to let you know my opinion. Our club is dying at a rapid rate. The answer to this problem is new and younger members and bringing the club into the 21st century. That is the reason for the new Constitution.

Our Club cannot fix any problems without spending years of study by a bunch of old members intent on preserving the 200 pages of the Blue Book. It is time to make the changes needed so the hundreds of new Airstream byers will join. I urge you to pass the changes, save the club and fix any problems during the next year. There is nothing in the new Constitution that will destroy our Club or cannot wait to be fixed.

The essence of the new Constitution is one man one vote using the latest communications techniques, elimination of many of the restrictions that needlessly cost us money and new members, changing perceived holy dates and practices and simplifying how we do business. Studying this for another year will result in endless discussions about stupid details as well as the loss of many current members.

An observation:

1. The trouble makers trying to change the club are mostly the younger members
2. The 'we should study this more' are mostly the old line members who don’t want to change anything.

When I tried to join WBCCI back in 1985 they would not accept me because I had one of those ‘evil’ Motor Homes. My FMCA friends said why do you want to join an elitist, stuck-up, unfriendly group full of old people who don’t really want young members with children. All they do is talk about Fun, Fellowship and Adventure they do not practice it. Here it is 25 years later and what is our reputation now?

So what if you are bothered by some detail, let it go, and lets try to fix the main problems and really get back to the Fun, Fellowship and Adventure.

Prickly Pear 04-15-2011 10:24 AM

There is one detail that keeps nagging me. The new constitution is the proverbial "Pig in the Poke". What is in the poke will not be known until the bylaws that accompany the new Constitution are written.

The reality is that this is the only way to produce a new constitution. The process of amending the existing constitution one item at a time will bog down with those who want to preserve things as they are. My biggest disappointment with the new is that it is only "new" as defined by ROR. I would have preferred a clean sheet start with some definition of what is required.

Maybe my attitude should be that a new constitution can be no worse. If nothing improves, I know my personal solution to the problem.

Jim

RickDavis 04-15-2011 11:26 AM

I am at the TN state rally right now and have heard little talk on this subject. One of the rewrite committee members is here and we had a nice chat yesterday.
We are having a unit meeting today and I will support the new constitiution, not because I think it is perfect, but because it represents movement on some of our club problems and the present system is completely broken and any attempts to change the current constitution are doomed to failure.
None the less I expect mine will be a minority view.
I find it interesting that the members have have received no communications from the region level and the unit meeting was only announced today meaning no unit member not at the state rally will even know it is happenning. It looks like a case of let's ignore this and maybe it will go away

NevadaGeo 04-15-2011 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Lefkowitz (Post 978960)
...
An observation:

1. The trouble makers trying to change the club are mostly the younger members
2. The 'we should study this more' are mostly the old line members who don’t want to change anything.

Here's another bit of observation: I've learned it is futile to try to discuss or pursuade most "senior citizens" into an newer concept. It just won't happen. Few younger folks have come to this realization yet, and are too removed by generations, time, age, technology to accept the idea that you can't remold solid sturdy stone.
So use the stone as a foundation for a newer Holocene model of the organization instead of trying to break the stone into rough gravel under your campsite.

eubank 04-15-2011 03:10 PM

Personally, I don't think the problem is one of age or generation per se. It may be true that folks who have presented many obstacles to change are older folks. However, if the defining moment were merely age or generation, then you would find no oldsters (like myself) in favor of organic change.

Ultimately, though, I think we've always been talking about a relatively small group of people on either side of the issue, namely, those who have staked out positions in one way or another in forums. There is the fabled "silent majority" out there, and, while we may make inferences about them, we have little direct knowledge about what those folks are thinking. Perhaps we'll know more once the relevant documents have been transmitted about, and units get a chance to let individual members have a voice in them.

:)
Lynn

Ed Emerick 04-15-2011 03:40 PM

I just don't know
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Lefkowitz (Post 978960)

An observation:

1. The trouble makers trying to change the club are mostly the younger members
2. The 'we should study this more' are mostly the old line members who don’t want to change anything.


Wow, now I have a real identity problem.....
Am I a "trouble maker" or "the old line member"? At 52 and with 15 years in the club this year, where the heck do I fall?

wkerfoot 04-15-2011 03:45 PM

Ed,

Behind me in one line and ahead in the other line.

Bill


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Emerick (Post 979147)
Wow, now I have a real identity problem.....
Am I a "trouble maker" or "the old line member"? At 52 and with 15 years in the club this year, where the heck do I fall?


RickDavis 04-15-2011 04:09 PM

I must have fallen on the wrong side of the fence after sitting on it for quite a few years. I am 70 and joined in 73 . I think there are a fair number of us older members in the 'vociferous minority"

Nuvite-F 04-15-2011 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eubank (Post 979140)
There is the fabled "silent majority" out there, and, while we may make inferences about them, we have little direct knowledge about what those folks are thinking. Perhaps we'll know more once the relevant documents have been transmitted about, and units get a chance to let individual members have a voice in them.

But will the relevant documents be transmitted about? Apparently not always. . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickDavis (Post 979035)
I find it interesting that the members have received no communications from the region level and the unit meeting was only announced today meaning no unit member not at the state rally will even know it is happening. It looks like a case of let's ignore this and maybe it will go away

Our unit spring business meeting won’t be until May, so we have time to get the word out. Most of our members receive the unit newsletter electronically, and an email went out to them urging them to go to the WBCCI web site and download the information package provided there. Members who do not get the newsletter electronically were mailed a hard copy this week (at a printing and postage cost close to $10 each).

This is not a criticism of the Tennessee unit—they only had 2 weeks from the time the information was made available to the membership, and their spring business meeting.

My guess is that the “silent majority” doesn’t know anything about it and doesn’t want to know anything about it, but at least our unit has done what we can to inform them.
.

RickDavis 04-15-2011 04:16 PM

TN Unit meeting
 
Only about 7 showed up and the goal seemed to be to get it over with as quickly as possible.
No mention was made of the new constitution at all, only the new slate of International officers.
I finally asked if the info was going to be sent out to our members electronically for their evaluation and got assurances it would be.
Hopefully a mail vote will be taken.
It is pretty discouraging that the officers won't even bring it up for discussion.

Mike Eagle 04-15-2011 06:39 PM

I am a recent new owner of an older Airstream that is travel ready and I do plan to use it often. I have been following the comments on this site for about a year now, so I guess you could classify me as the silent majority. Here is my question. Can anyone give me three reasons, in ten words or less, why I should join the WBCCI?
(Please do not say Fun, Fellowship and Adventure since these words have a different meaning for each of us, i.e. Fun to you may be agony for me). Thanks.

dwightdi 04-15-2011 06:50 PM

The caravans are very nicely done and the cost is reasonable (mush lower than Good Sam). Some of the local units have good local activities that you might find of interest. Some of the local units have interesting people who are eager to help you when you encounter technical or travel difficulties. Some of the members have courtesy parking which can be very nice if you are on the road alone and passing by their location. The club is good for those people who have time enough to enjoy the benefits that are available. The overall cost per year is reasonable, if you take the time to use them.

Boondocker 04-15-2011 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Eagle (Post 979207)
Can anyone give me three reasons, in ten words or less, why I should join the WBCCI?

Great local unit+ indifference to fraud/injustice= good deal.

Nuvite-F 04-15-2011 07:58 PM

How is changing the constitution supposd to fix the WBCCI?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Lefkowitz (Post 978960)
Since I played some part in setting up the committee that put together the new Constitution I feel the need to let you know my opinion. Our club is dying at a rapid rate. The answer to this problem is new and younger members and bringing the club into the 21st century. That is the reason for the new Constitution.

I find the simple title of this thread most charming. Let's fix the WBCCI!

Seems to me a lot of people have been trying to "fix the WBCCI" for some time now--WBCCI membership has been steadily declining for 30 years.

A puzzling aspect of this proposed new constitution business is that we are apparently supposed to accept on faith that somehow this new constitution is going to "fix the WBCCI".

There are apparently a number of WBCCI members who believe that the club's problems can be solved if we can just be sufficiently crafty in the application of Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised.

I must confess that I am not one of them.

If you go to the WBCCI website you can now download 85 pages of explanation of the proposed new constitution.

The International President's introductory letter carefully explains the difference between a "revision" and and "amendment" under Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised, and for that reason, apparently, we are free to disregard the Constitution and Bylaws Committees numerous objections to the revised constitution. He then goes into detail about how amendments will be handled at the Delegates Meeting. What the International President does not do is give any hint as to how the proposed new constitution is supposed to "fix the WBCCI".

The WBCCI's attorney then expresses his professional opinion that the proposed new constitution will satisfactorily comply with Ohio law. That's good to know, but still no clue as to how it will "fix the WBCCI".

The Constitution and Bylaws Committee's formal analysis and recommendation make it clear that they most assuredly do not believe the proposed new constitution will "fix the WBCCI".

Then we get down to the unsigned and unattributed Guide to the Proposed Constitutional Revision. (I sort of assume that it was written by the Constitution and Bylaws Revision Committee, but nowhere is this disclosed.) It explains numerous dramatic changes, like uniformly replacing "Wally Byam Caravan Club, International" with "WBCCI" and Headquarters with "HQ". It explains that the "Code of Ethics" is changed to a "Standard of Conduct" and "Regions" become "Areas".

It admits that most of the real changes will come in the proposed new bylaws, which alas, we will not be allowed to see until we have adopted the proposed new constitution.

No explanation is given as to how any of this will "fix the WBCCI".

And finally we get to the 45-page 3-column presentation of the detailed changes. Stuff like changing the spelling from "non-profit" to "nonprofit". It's by no means clear how this will "fix the WBCCI."

Really, I find the constitutional revision package positively depressing. It's a stack of paper about half an inch thick. It looks like something that would come from the IRS. Not being a Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised wonk, I find myself thinking, "Is this what the WBCCI is really about?"

So--perhaps those of you who believe in the redemptive powers of Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised, can explain to those of us who don't, how this proposed new constitution is going to "fix the WBCCI"?
.

LI Pets 04-15-2011 08:31 PM

John, the Constitution in and of itself will not address all the issues, but many.

The Revised bylaws will address many issues, I hesitate to say all because they will be amended over time.

It will be the combination of both.

Now I know you mentioned you want to see the new bylaws, but they can't be finished until the Constitution is in its final form after the delegates adopt it.

Point 1 the constitution as revised will allow the members to amend it.

Point 2 the bylaws may only be amended by the IBT, not the members.

Point 3 will that (to use your words) fix things, likely not the way the members want.

Unless at the delegates meeting the Constitution has a proposed Metro NY Unit amendment passed to enable the members that ability.

.

rideair 04-15-2011 10:25 PM

"Point 2 the bylaws may only be amended by the IBT, not the members."

I thought the "Revision Committee" had a rough draft already, how can that be if "only" the IBT can amend the Bylaws? Do they have secret powers nobody knows about? What about all the power the New Constitution gives the general membership?

The Revision Committee was created by the IP which will be not be in office in a few months and there's nothing in writing saying the new IP will continue this committee and there's nothing in writing saying the IBT will even listen to a single word they say anyway.

Looks like old Norm plays a good hand of poker and does it with a straight face to boot!


Quick question to anyone that might know,

Does anyone know what the magic membership number is when the WBCCI has to start letting the girls in the office go, funds start the death spin down and this whole thing goes down back to the point of a few people giving their time (no travel $$) to try and get out a newsletter like back in the begining?

5000, 4000, 3000, 2000, 1000????

Denis4x4 04-15-2011 10:36 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but after reading the posts, I can't help but remember the infamous Nancy Pelosi quote, "we have to pass this bill so we know what's in it".

RickDavis 04-16-2011 07:07 AM

changing bylaws
 
Posted by LI Pets

Point 2 the bylaws may only be amended by the IBT, not the members


This one item if not changed would be a giant step backwards from where we are now and would be a deal breaker for me, even with all the other good things in the new constitution

DreamStreamr 04-16-2011 08:36 AM

Rick,
I agree with you and suggest the fix is to ask our delegates to amend this article or refuse to ratify the document.

The business meeting at our local unit's rally one week ago included a brief discussion of the proposed constitution. No had read it, most hadn't seen it, very few expressed any interest in it.

Some of us agreed to participate in trying to make sense of what will and won't work in the document -- not an easy thing but we must try.

64 dollar question is, how many important sticking points are there and can we find them? We'll try.

Mikethefixit 04-16-2011 10:02 AM

You people dont think for one minute that those folks in high places are gonna let someone with a new constitution take away the money that they spend on so called travel expenses that lets them travel all over the US fer free Do ya. Then you are kiddin yourself. THEY take the dues money of hard working people and spend it on so called travel expenses.
Several yrs ago I had a unit pres tell me to my face that THIER TRIP to the National Convention out west somewhere didn't cost them ANY THING.
THEM PEOPLE AINT GONNA LET ANYONE TAKE THAT AWAY. TRUST ME!


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