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-   -   Should the VAC leave the WBCCI?? (

rideair 04-06-2011 04:09 PM

Should the VAC leave the WBCCI??
OK, it's been knocked around for years, discussions in smoke filled vintage Airstreams over glasses of whiskey with the shades pulled down so no one knows who or what is pulling the strings and leading the cause of the VAC leaving the WBCCI. Some say we need them, others say their killing us, many have said "I'd join the VAC if it were not for the WBCCI".

So the question is now the time to fish or cut bait?

How many would leave the VAC if it left the WBCCI and why?

How many want the VAC to leave the WBCCI and why?

How many would join the VAC if it were not part of the WBCCI and why?


Boondocker 04-06-2011 04:13 PM

I would probably join. I was in the WBCCI, but withheld my dues waiting to see what happened at the mid winter meeting- turned out to be a good call. The VAC is appealing to me for sure.
Having said that, given what I learned from watching the WBCCI, I would want to know about the price structure, where the money goes, and how governance works.

wkerfoot 04-06-2011 04:17 PM

Perhaps the question should be: Would you join a Vintage Airstream Club not connected to the WBCCI?

I believe that there are too few VAC members on this forum to get an accurate feel on how the membership feels.


RickDavis 04-06-2011 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by rideair (Post 974954)

So the question is now the time to fish or cut bait?

How many would leave the VAC if it left the WBCCI and why?

How many want the VAC to leave the WBCCI and why?

How many would join the VAC if it were not part of the WBCCI and why?


I would not leave the VAC if it left the WBCCI.

I am ambivalent about the VAC leaving the WBCCI because there are strong pro and con arguments.

If the VAC left the WBCCI I would have one less reason to remain in the WBCCI, and those reasons are getting fewer all the time.

Top 04-06-2011 04:34 PM

The only reason I ever considered joining the WBCCI (which I haven't) is so I could be in the VAC. I would join the VAC immediately if it were not a part of the WBCCI.

Frank's Trailer Works 04-06-2011 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by Top (Post 974961)
The only reason I ever considered joining the WBCCI (which I haven't) is so I could be in the VAC. I would join the VAC immediately if it were not a part of the WBCCI.

Big nod there. Except for "the haven't part", I did and then I did not...

wheel interested 04-06-2011 05:30 PM

If the VAC leaves, the WBCCI should hire the VAC, for its promotion and entertainment value at the International Rally. It has always been the most fun and the best entertainment of the rallies, and the reason why many Airstreamers, guests and members of the media attend.:)

Buttercup 04-06-2011 05:42 PM

Well, I may not be the strongest WBCCI proponent but on this topic I'd like to just put the rumor to rest straight away if I can. Speaking as an officer - the VAC is not looking to break away from WBCCI. It is not in our grand plans and hasn't been a topic of discussion among the officers. In fact, quite the converse, we are discussing the improvements we can make towards better servicing the members we do have. We are working to determine what we are doing right for them and what we need to do more of to improve.

As a past membership chairman, I have heard my share of people say that the WBCCI is the reason they are leaving the VAC. But as I mentioned in a previous post, the VAC has become lethargic on many levels within the club and that is not necessarily a reflection on WBCCI. When the VAC stops having regional activities, the newsletter is slow in coming out and our outreach becomes practically non-existent, it just looks like nothing is happening in the club then of course we lose members. As one of the officers, I can say that we are not putting the blame on WBCCI, but squarely on ourselves first and foremost.

Years ago rumors of the VAC splitting off from WBCCI caused a ruckus that put ill feelings on many people. I'd rather not see that happen again because nobody won. I would rather see a discussion about how the VAC could better itself and become an active club again. That way the VAC members win.

Frank's Trailer Works 04-06-2011 06:13 PM

perhaps, the officers might want to discuss all their options. You never know.

Buttercup 04-06-2011 06:32 PM


perhaps, the officers might want to discuss all their options. You never know.
Really, what for? The WBCCI ain't doing well, but it hasn't collapsed like a house of cards yet. To me (and I say this as one who is not a fan of the way WBCCI leadership conducts business) it is kind of irresponsible and presumptive to lead people to believe that the VAC is even thinking about this. It is not, plain and simple.
I know a few people - maybe even a dozen or 2, will say that they would join the VAC if it left the WBCCI - we'll miss having them as members then because that is just not in the cards.
Any one of these folks can become a subscriber to the newsletter right now if they want which would be a show of support for the VAC. Are they doing that? I don't think so... I don't see that happening in droves. Not online anyway.
I understand the point of the question and it has been mentioned before, but in this case, I don't see this as realistic. Don't get your hopes up for the VAC to break away.

Castaway 04-06-2011 06:40 PM

Please forgive my ignorance but what is VAC?


Boondocker 04-06-2011 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by Castaway (Post 975026)
Please forgive my ignorance but what is VAC?


Vintage Airstream Club

Frank's Trailer Works 04-06-2011 06:44 PM

Tim, as a none WB member, what does the Vintage Advantage offer me? Before you answer defensively, hear me out. When I open it up, it is geared toward WB events. All is list by member numbers and member activities. Even though it portrays the good side of the club and shows the part of the WB I would be interested in, it is still about being a WB member(as it should). I just do not need to read about the WB in vintage form. The restoration tips and restoration articles do not dilute the WB theme for me. Also, by giving the VAC my subscription I am giving it to the Mother club too.
What my point is , and others now posting, is that many of us joined the WB only because we wanted to be VAC members. Not the other way around. Many of us joined, got disillusioned with the mother club and as a result cannot be a part of the VAC. The desire for vintage is strong. That desire is what gets you the members, not the newsletter or the mother club.
I am not trying to give you a hard road. Actually the very opposite. I admire your honesty and dedication to everything you do. I just suggest at the next meeting of officers you discuss this. Perhaps after that discussion you all go out and survey people at happy hour without them knowing your are. I think you might be very surprised at what you hear.

lahrfarm 04-06-2011 07:32 PM

I would be interested in the VAC but not the WBCCI. I must say I'm rather new to all of this but TAC seems much friendlier and less formal (fun) than both. They both sound like an agency that does'nt want to lose power and does'nt care what anyone thinks, just send your money, and follow.

rideair 04-06-2011 08:54 PM


Please don't take me starting this thread as a way to start or keep rumors going or anything of the such. It was done to find out if there was support for the VAC to break off or stay with the WBCCI and to make sure we are not missing the boat and possible members to the VAC.

Just want to know what can be done to help grow vintage Airstreaming in general being that I just picked up my 7th one tonight! A 1974 27 foot all original trailer. So that makes a 1956 Front Kitchen, 1966 26 and 22 and 20 footer, 1970 23', 1974 27', 1979 7.3 minuet.

At this point I can have my own Vintage rally and not have to invite anyone!

Ken J 04-06-2011 09:14 PM

Well - we have had Wally and Helen rolling in their graves, now Bud - I 100% agree with Butter - I know the grass looks greener, but for one the VAC could not be split even if it wanted to and two any new club will have legal and insurance issues to deal with - will still have the same problems of a newsletter, name recongnition etc etc.

I'm not happy about the WBCCI either - no argument there - but I'm getting more tired of what seems to be the few who continually want to bash it because it seems cool to do.....

If and when I decide to quit the WBCCI, I will do so quietly and I will wish them well. For now I am behind the VAC and their efforts to regroup to come back stronger than ever. That - it seems - is the best most productive thing we can do.

Ken J.

Nuvite-F 04-06-2011 09:27 PM

Why not?

Originally Posted by Ken J (Post 975123)
. . .for one the VAC could not be split even if it wanted to. . .

Why not?

Tom Nugler 04-06-2011 09:30 PM

I, for one, joined the WBCCI because of the VAC.
As my wife is so fond of saying, “You can pick your friends but not your family.”
If I had a to deal with a belligerent father in law I wouldn’t file for a divorce.
At this point I’m still hoping for meaningful changes from within.


Buttercup 04-06-2011 10:20 PM


I am not the official spokesperson for the VAC – I can only speak for myself. I think we actually agree on your points:
  • The VAC (by nature of being an intraclub within WBCCI) is not for everybody.
  • The Vintage Advantage is a publication of the VAC and does indeed contain content that is related to both clubs (Big Red Numbers stories for example).
  • There will be people who do not want to be in the VAC because it means joining the WBCCI.
But I do not agree that supporting the VAC supports the WBCCI. A subscription as we call it for non-WBCCI members really covers the cost of publishing the newsletter, the funds do not go to the mother-ship and actually goes towards supporting The VAC. If that means that WBCCI gets good press because of it, well, we can't help that and really its not a bad thing because WBCCI is not a bad club overall. Its the leadership and direction the leadership is taking that is the problem for most people.

As for surveying the membership, we are doing exactly that. We are asking for the hard truths about the VAC, the VACs leadership and the direction the VAC is taking. I am believe that we will not hear the landslide of dissension about WBCCI that you expect because we are talking to people who are members of WBCCI and are probably generally quite content with the club(s) overall. So those results will not yield the results you perhaps expect.

But we are also going to survey the past members of the VAC – those who have not renewed – to ask why they didn't. Perhaps in that survey we will get more results more in line for what you expect. And that is good because we will also hear what we as an intra-club have been doing that could be better. That is what we are looking for – how we as an intraclub can improve. I cannot express enough how seriously we are taking this and how much effort we are putting into this! You will likely get a request to participate in the survey and I hope you, as well as all readers of this thread, will respond in all earnestness to our survey.

We do cater to 2 audiences in the VAC – members of WBCCI and non-members of WBCCI. We try to create a publication that reaches all. We do that because, quite frankly, a subscriber is still a potential member of the VAC (and yes, of the WBCCI as well). But we also do understand that this sort of information is not for all people.

I understand the the point of the thread – I really do. I am one person who has been ground up by the WBCCI political machine more than once. I still maintain 3 memberships in WBCCI – because we love the history of our Big Red Numbers. However, I would be negligent in my position within the VAC if I did not make the assertion that there is practically no chance whatsoever of the VAC pulling out of the WBCCI to form a new club. I must take the position that this is not a reality in our future. I am deeply concerned that to discuss this as a possibility is tantamount to it actually being considered at some level. It is not – not at any level! Period! I don't want people to think that if enough people respond in the positive towards this thread that it might happen. The truth is that we are working to strengthen out intraclub.

When I took up the position of 3rd VP of the VAC, I swore an oath to uphold not only our constitution but also that of the WBCCI. That goes for all of the officers I am quite sure. I see no indication that this dedication is wavering. That doesn't mean that we like all that is happening with the WBCCI, but I believe we all had the VACs bests interests at heart when we volunteered for out positions. And I think we all are taking these positions very seriously!

So, while this might be an interesting and passionate discussion for the forums here, it is outside the realm of reality for the VAC. And if I hear someone complain that the VAC is once again talking about pulling out of WBCCI, I will, with all my authority, say that this is not the case.

Like I have said earlier, we have been down this road before and one VAC member had to defend herself and the VAC before before the leadership of the WBCCI to say this was not going to happen. She took a ton of needless heat and it never had to happen. It was a bad situation and it caused a lot of unnecessary ill feelings. I do not want to see that repeated because of a forums thread outside the influence of the VAC or WBCCI.

I will say that I will monitor this thread and use the constructive comments to hopefully better the VAC. And I will reiterate that I am speaking only for myself, not for the rest of the VACs leadership. But I do believe they feel the same.

Grand Master 04-06-2011 10:39 PM

I, for one, would not belong to the VAC without it's affiliation with the WBCCI. I first began Caravanning in 1956 when my father bought his first Airstream.

I specifically bought a vintage Airstream to relive my childhood memories. The WBCCI does not look significantly different to me than I remember it 50 years ago. And, I like that. After all Wally & Helen designed the WBCCI the way they wanted it, and people joined in droves.

I don't understand why people who want to participate in vintage events, want to transform the WBCCI into something "new". That doesn't seem to reflect a vintage philosophy to me.

Now before some of you get out your flame throwers, I don't find anything wrong with other philosphies. Feel free to participate in TAC or other organizations the meet your expectations. But please quit trying to destroy the dream of Wally Byam and a 50 year legacy.

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