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-   -   Tongue weight and weight distribution (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464/tongue-weight-and-weight-distribution-65327.html)

Bex 06-05-2010 08:20 PM

Tongue weight and weight distribution
 
OK, so I tried searching for the answer (I am sure it must be here somewhere) but without success. I have not yet collected my trailer but will when I have got my vehicle set up but it is a 28ft Argosy with an original weight of 4370 and TW of 405Lbs (from specs I found here). GVWR of the trailer is (on the plate) 6200
Now, to select the correct WD bars, do I need to add the two propane tanks and a proportion of the weight of our loaded vehicle.What about the weight of the actual towing package, which is 95lbs Then the loaded trailer, and a guestimate of the new tongue weight? Assuming the trailer is 6200lbs loaded and allowing 10% of it as tongue weight I figure I will be getting up around 800/1000Lbs or so when including my vehicle passengers and kit..
My question is How accurate does this in fact need to be when determining the correct bars?
If I went overkill and chose 1000lb bars (but tongue weight was less) would that be detrimental to the towing process in any way? Can you have too much? If I went with 750lb bars and my tongue weight was 850/900 would that also cause me significant issues?
A little clarification would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Bex

easyride 06-05-2010 08:31 PM

If you go with too heavy bars ,it will give the trailer a rough ride,jarring out rivets,and just beating up the trailer.Too light of bars,and you won`t be able to level out the rig,giving the tv a dragging rear end.
I would think 750# bars would work good,but I`m no expert. Dave

Inland RV Center, In 06-05-2010 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex (Post 857371)
OK, so I tried searching for the answer (I am sure it must be here somewhere) but without success. I have not yet collected my trailer but will when I have got my vehicle set up but it is a 28ft Argosy with an original weight of 4370 and TW of 405Lbs (from specs I found here). GVWR of the trailer is (on the plate) 6200
Now, to select the correct WD bars, do I need to add the two propane tanks and a proportion of the weight of our loaded vehicle.What about the weight of the actual towing package, which is 95lbs Then the loaded trailer, and a guestimate of the new tongue weight? Assuming the trailer is 6200lbs loaded and allowing 10% of it as tongue weight I figure I will be getting up around 800/1000Lbs or so when including my vehicle passengers and kit..
My question is How accurate does this in fact need to be when determining the correct bars?
If I went overkill and chose 1000lb bars (but tongue weight was less) would that be detrimental to the towing process in any way? Can you have too much? If I went with 750lb bars and my tongue weight was 850/900 would that also cause me significant issues?
A little clarification would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Bex


Assuming, is not a very good thing to do, when dealing with a "load equalizing hitch".

The hitch must match the trailer, to the tow vehicle, for optimum performance.

Gueesing at a torsion bar rating to use, without considering the tow vehicle, will more than likely be unsatisfactory.

What "exact" tow vehicle do you have, or will be using, and what rear end suspension changes have been made to it?

Andy

Finch 06-05-2010 11:47 PM

i'd go with a 750 kit, you can also adjust the tension of the bars on the head also for different TW

Bex 06-06-2010 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In (Post 857398)
Assuming, is not a very good thing to do, when dealing with a "load equalizing hitch".

The hitch must match the trailer, to the tow vehicle, for optimum performance.

Gueesing at a torsion bar rating to use, without considering the tow vehicle, will more than likely be unsatisfactory.

What "exact" tow vehicle do you have, or will be using, and what rear end suspension changes have been made to it?

Andy

Thanks Andy, thats why I am here. I am not trying to assume, or guess anything. However, without the trailer being here (with me) and not able to collect it with anything but my own vehicle I am in a chicken/egg situation (a 1990 GMC 2500 by the way) I must guess certain things, but they will be quite close I believe. I will be returning to the weigh station with a full load and passengers in my van.
I have a transmission cooler installed, new brake lines, rotors and fluid next week, Replacing the rear shocks with munro Sensa trac load adjusting (not gas), not sure if I need to replace the front as well.
Current GVWR is 2994 kg front is 1542 kg and rear is 1545 and actual weight with full tank and 1 front passenger is 1160 front 1040 rear and 2300 kg overall.

Bex

Bex 06-06-2010 08:30 AM

By the way, I have a $1000 budget for towing set up and brake controller. I think BC will be the P3 and I am leaning towards the Reese dual cam, but what is the difference between round bar and ...errr...not round??

Bex

Inland RV Center, In 06-06-2010 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex (Post 857466)
Thanks Andy, thats why I am here. I am not trying to assume, or guess anything. However, without the trailer being here (with me) and not able to collect it with anything but my own vehicle I am in a chicken/egg situation (a 1990 GMC 2500 by the way) I must guess certain things, but they will be quite close I believe. I will be returning to the weigh station with a full load and passengers in my van.
I have a transmission cooler installed, new brake lines, rotors and fluid next week, Replacing the rear shocks with munro Sensa trac load adjusting (not gas), not sure if I need to replace the front as well.
Current GVWR is 2994 kg front is 1542 kg and rear is 1545 and actual weight with full tank and 1 front passenger is 1160 front 1040 rear and 2300 kg overall.

Bex

Bex.

For the torsion bars to work correctly, they "MUST" be subjected to an adequate load that results in a bend in the bars.

Since you have a heavy duty tow vehicle, I would suggest the Reese 550 or 600 pound bars, with the dual cams.

The stiffer the bars, the stiffer the ride "AND" a marked increase in the damages to the trailer, caused by excessive rigidity.

If you add anything to the rear suspension of the tow vehicle, to "beef it up" so to speak, you will progressively reduce the effectiveness of the torsions bars. That can be springs, or air bags or air shocks. Any automatic air system, should be defeated when towing the trailer. If not, it will remove enough bend in the bars, to minimize their effectiveness.

A good bend in the Reese bars is 1 inch to about 2 inches.
The more the bend, to a point, the better the handling and sway control.

I like the square bars better, since the ball mount for them accepts any rating.

Andy

overlander64 06-06-2010 11:19 AM

Tongue weight and weight distribution
 
Greetings Bex!

Reading through your posts brought up two questions for me.
  1. Does your van have its spare tire mounted to the rear door? If this is the case, you will likely require and extended drawbar which can have a negative impact on towing stability. Based on my experience with such a setup on a 2500 series GMC Vandura, I would suggest finding another location for the spare tire and utilizing a standard length drawbar.
  2. Are you replacing the rear shocks with air adjustable shocks because the rear springs are worn? If the replacement is because of worn parts, my suggestion would be to go for the highest quality gas-charged shocks you can afford for your vehicle - - I did this on both my '84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer and my current '99 GMC K2500 Suburban and it made a tremendous difference in the behaviour of the trucks both empty and when towing.
This is a personal preference issue, but you do have a choice if you go with the Reese Dual Cam System. The "classic" style that uses two u-bolts on each side to attach the cams is a little easier to adjust (IMHO) and install. I utilize the "classic" style Dual Cam System on both of my trailers. With the Overlander (26'), I have 600 pound bars that I utilize for towing with my Suburban.

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin

Bex 06-06-2010 01:11 PM

Thanks Andy and Kevin!
Although its a G2500 I believe it has 1/2 ton axles (5 studs).
I was replacing the shocks because that was what was suggested, but I see they already have the Munros fitted so I might not need to do that. Maybe I need to get set up, pull the trailer and see what the feel is like before fitting replacement shocks?
I do have a spare hung off the back and I did wonder about that. I think removing it and stowing under the back seat is the option I would go for, unless there is a hangar for it somewhere although I cannot see one.
A bit off topic here but I just saw a 1979 Suburban 5.7 Litre 400 Trubo for sale with under 100k miles on it...worth getting and save the concern on my GMC with changing stuff?? (It colour matches the Argosy quite well)
I think I might be starting to get "analysis paralysis"

Bex


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