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-   -   1972 Overlander Frame Question (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/1972-overlander-frame-question-26688.html)

Derek D 10-02-2006 11:52 AM

1972 Overlander Frame Question
 
Hi, I'm a new owner of a 1972 Overlander. I'm going to be doing a shell-off restoration and complete rearranging of the floor plan. The rearranging of the floor plan is necessary to accommodate my wife and 6 young children. Not enough beds in the original floor plan.:)

I want to move the bathroom from the rear to the side. I'm guessing that I will have to move the black water tank. But as I'm new to this I'm not sure. While I'm fixing up the frame I will probably go ahead and add a grey water tank.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? Will I have to move frame members? Any information or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Derek

Fyrzowt 10-02-2006 12:27 PM

Hi Derek, Welcome to the forums.

I don't have any experience with a frame off restore, but there are a lot of previous threads on this. Using the search function do a search for "full monte" or "Frame off". you should find lots of great info. There are folks here who have posted their step by step progress, problems they ran into and lessons learned. Good luck.
Dave

mlang905 02-27-2007 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek D
Hi, I'm a new owner of a 1972 Overlander. I'm going to be doing a shell-off restoration and complete rearranging of the floor plan. The rearranging of the floor plan is necessary to accommodate my wife and 6 young children. Not enough beds in the original floor plan.:)

I want to move the bathroom from the rear to the side. I'm guessing that I will have to move the black water tank. But as I'm new to this I'm not sure. While I'm fixing up the frame I will probably go ahead and add a grey water tank.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? Will I have to move frame members? Any information or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Derek

How did it go? Do you have any updates for us?

malconium 02-27-2007 06:50 PM

Derek,

It doesn't look like you got any responses to this thread. Are you still looking for tips?

Malcolm

PizzaChop 02-27-2007 08:06 PM

He might still be buried underneath it.

Or....might have realized a centerbath Sovereign in ANY condition is easier than trying to convert a rear bath Overlander.

Wished I had seen this post back in October because that's what I would have suggested.

Derek D 03-01-2007 11:58 AM

Unfortunately, I had to put the project on hold. We had to make an unexpected move and the new house needed a lot of work. Hopefully, I will be working on it again this spring.

The Sovereign option would have been easier, but we didn't want a longer trailer. The 27 footer was pushing it for us. Originally we wanted a smaller trailer just to make into a heated/cooled bunkhouse. We stepped up to the 27 footer because we got a good deal from a friend.

As soon as I get started again I will update my other thread that I started to chronicle the project.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ion-27045.html

Thanks,

Silver Threads 03-01-2007 12:57 PM

Im curious to know how it works also because we have the same trailer and was wondering if it would be possible to switch the bathroom and bedroom. I would like to put the bedroom in the rear and the bath in the center. could it be done without having to move all the tanks? just curious!

PizzaChop 03-01-2007 02:44 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Decek,

Are you sure a shell-off is justified? I've spent quite a bit of time under mine with the floor intact and managed to repair/restore all of the frame that needed welding. (even with an AC stick, I've done okay). I mean, boat transoms are lots of fun too (been there, done that), but I wouldn't do it again unless it was really necessary (and it was).

Having learned on a '72 Overlander, and now finishing up a '73 Sovereign (2 years since I acquired it-on again, off again), I can honestly say that I am tired of it, and so is my family. (7 kids, six 9 and under). Without removing the shell, there are hundreds of hours involved already. Are you sure you want to add more? At some point, something other than exhaustion takes over.

I have built 3 sets of bunks in the Sovereign as well as a wrap around dinette that are a bit lighter than the last time around (and better looking IMHO than the ones I did in the Overlander).

Best of luck!

PizzaChop 03-01-2007 07:58 PM

Derek,

Sorry I misspelled your name....Moderator! Come help!!!

malconium 03-01-2007 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Threads
Im curious to know how it works also because we have the same trailer and was wondering if it would be possible to switch the bathroom and bedroom. I would like to put the bedroom in the rear and the bath in the center. could it be done without having to move all the tanks? just curious!

I think that it is possible to relocate the bathroom without necessarily relocating all of the holding tanks. That would depend more on where the holding tanks are now and whether or not they would be in the way of whatever you are planning to do with where the bath used to be. The key to not having to move the tanks would be to use pumps to move black and grey water from the new bath location to the old holding tank locations. You can get marine toilets that have built in maserator pumps (either electric or manual). As I understand it in marine toilet (head) installations the head is sometimes even below the level of the holding tank. It is also possible to get shower sump pumps you could also empty the bath sink into. These sump pumps are designed to come on automatically and pump grey water to a remote holding tank. For some ideas of types of things available take a look at the following marine websites:

This one is a shower pump but there are other things on their site too:
Par-Max-3 Shower Drain Pump

Lots of marine supplies - take a look at heads and sewage pumps:
West Marine: Plumbing Category Page

This page is another shower pump:
West Marine: Multiple Port Shower Sump Product Display

This toilet has a small built in tank that can be pumped to another tank:
Traveler Self-Contained Toilet/Holding Tank

See what you think...

Malcolm

Derek D 03-04-2007 12:28 PM

Ron,

No problem about the misspelling. I'm not sure that the shell-off restoration is neccessary. I figured with replacing the subfloor, repairing and strengthening the frame, moving the black water tank, and adding a grey water tank that it would just be easier to pull the frame out. From some of the threads I've read, I don't think that I want to piece the subfloor( strength reasons ). Not to mention that I'm the type of person that has a difficult time going most of the way, but we'll see.

Malcolm,

Thanks for the links! I will definitely look into these options.

malconium 03-06-2007 01:09 PM

I replaced my entire floor and did some frame repair without removing the entire body. I don't think there is really any inherant strengh issue with doing it that way. I did use Polyboard instead of plywood for the floor but I did use splines at any joints not over the frame with glue and screws so that the panels are very strongly joined to each other. I cut some of my Polyboard panels down to 4' x 4' just because the Polyboard is a bit heavier than plywood and I was intalling it all by my self. Otherwise the way to do it in my opinion is to do the curved ends in a full sheet cross-wise (you can rotate the piece into position as long as the next piece is not there yet). Then do the other sheets lengthwise with a spline of plywood perhaps 6" wide down the middle to tie the joints together.

If you have the room to do it and the time there are certainly some aspects of floor replacement and frame repair that are easier with the body off. In my case I was able to avoid taking down all of the belly pan and most of the banana wrap. I am also working outside on a sloped driveway which would have made it decidedly more dificult. Leaving the body on in my case gave me a coverd area to work.

I almost forgot to mention too that for a 70's vintage trailer (mine is a 73) it is going to harder to get the body off of the frame simply because the u-channel along the bottom of the wall also has a c-channel on the bottom of it that the edges of the plywood fit into. Early vintage trailers have just a u-channel that sits on top of the floor. Not so with my unit and probably yours.

Malcolm

Derek D 03-07-2007 08:42 AM

Malcolm,

Were you able to replace the floor out to the edges with the body on? Or did you have to leave a bit of the existing floor under the U-channel? If I can do a "complete" restoration without removing the shell, I'll definitely consider it.

Thanks for your input.

malconium 03-07-2007 11:57 AM

All the way out...
 
I was indeed able to replace the floor all the way out into the c-channel applying the shell on techniques that I used. There has been quite a lot of discussion here in the forums about shell on vs. shell off approaches. Check out the following thread as a place to start reading about the topic:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...off-28824.html

Look especially at post number 3 where I list other threads that have details about the techniques and tools that I used. Once you look over the posted information I would be happy to help clarify any parts that you have questions about.

By the way, I am in Portland, Oregon and would be happy to show you what I am doing if you have a chance to get down this way. I am still working on installing the inner skins and part of my belly pan is still off. You can examine pretty much every aspect of what I did at this point.

Malcolm

Derek D 03-07-2007 02:53 PM

Thanks Malcolm, I really appreciate all of the input. I'll be making the decision in the next month or so regarding which route I'll take.

Are you installing new inner skins? I'll be replacing my skins with probably wood at the endcaps at least. I still have to resolve the strength issue regarding wood vs. aluminum. It seems that those going all wood have had no issues so far.

malconium 03-07-2007 07:19 PM

Derek,

I am installing the original skins. I am still giving some thought as to whether or not to overlay them with something else in specific key areas. There are wood products that are very thin that could be used to overlay the aluminum skin so that you would have the best of both worlds - the strength of the aluminum and beauty of the wood - and still not add too much weight.

Check out the following sites for sources of all sorts of flexible wood veneer products.

Oakwood Veneer Company :: Wood Veneer Maple Oak Wood Veneers Exotic Burl Manufacturer Supplier Custom Wood
BoulterPlywood.com....
TAPE-EASE: WOOD VENEER EDGEBANDING & WOOD SHEET VENEER, PVC, CURVED PLYWOOD & Much More

Unfortunately I do not have any direct experience with any of the above companies or their products. I do know that it is possible to buy 1/8" thick plywood here in Portland in 4'x8' sheets for pretty reasonable prices the last time that I checked. Many of the products listed on the sites above are specifically designed for overlaying. There are all types of woods. I would actually be interested to hear from anyone on the forums that have experiences with any of the above companies or their products.

My general thinking is that there will be lots of places in my trailer that the exact nature of the skin will not matter all that much. Who cares what is behind the kitchen cabinets or the shower surround for example? Why not concentrate on adding the eye candy in the places where it would be most visible. Maybe even start in one place and see how it works. Add more later as the concept proves out and as the budget permits.

Malcolm


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