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-   -   Airstream 25RB with 1300 Pounds of Payload on TV? (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/airstream-25rb-with-1300-pounds-of-payload-on-tv-195361.html)

rmkrum 05-16-2019 04:58 PM

Add a few more things to the truck bed perhaps??

thewarden 05-16-2019 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242156)
I achieve near perfect weight distribution across my whole rig without a wd hitch.

Sorry, but you don't. Without WD your front axle is significantly lighter than it was engineered empty. That affects both steering and braking, which will become especially evident in any sort of emergency braking or steering maneuver.

While you do not specifically say, is it a correct assumption that you are not using any form of sway control either? If not, you are just doubling down on asking for trouble. I know your response is Airstreams don't sway, but that too is not correct.

out of sight 05-16-2019 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarden (Post 2242172)
Sorry, but you don't. Without WD your front axle is significantly lighter than it was engineered empty. That affects both steering and braking, which will become especially evident in any sort of emergency braking or steering maneuver.

While you do not specifically say, is it a correct assumption that you are not using any form of sway control either? If not, you are just doubling down on asking for trouble. I know your response is Airstreams don't sway, but that too is not correct.

You're wrong. A pickup truck is engineered to take more load on the rear axle than the front axle. That's why your rear axle has a higher load rating. When unloaded it has too much load on the front axle. When loaded it will have a better weight distribution. If you have more load in the front your vehicle won't handle or brake properly. You want more load on the rear.

I can definitely say that my Airstream doesn't sway. I load it properly. Sway seems to be something that hitch salesmen use to frighten people into buying their product. It's not going to happen if your tow vehicle is big enough and you're loaded properly.

bono 05-16-2019 11:32 PM

Wow, just wow. I just learnt to keep away from trucks not towing anything as they won't handle or brake properly.

ROBERT CROSS 05-17-2019 08:46 AM

Rats...
 
And I thought OOS was OOM...guess I was mistaken, pay no attention, that which is expounded is singular in origin.🤓

Bob...King of useless Platitudes.;)
🇺🇸

HClews 05-17-2019 09:17 AM

Dan,

Hard to imagine that a Hemi-equipped Ram pickup wouldn't tow a 25-RB with aplomb.

We pull our 27-FB with a 2017 Durango R/T with the 5.7L Hemi. 10,000+ miles over the past two years, Florida Keys to Cape Breton Island - including the Blue Ridge Pkwy. Excellent TV, no hunting with the 8-speed trans, 13.5 mpg ave. Plus, a much nicer car to drive around when not towing - wife doesn't like driving a pickup.
http://www.snodoglog.com/images/1197-EnrouteHome1.jpg

Henry Clews
NH in summer, FL in winter

gypsydad 05-17-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HClews (Post 2242335)
Dan,

Hard to imagine that a Hemi-equipped Ram pickup wouldn't tow a 25-RB with aplomb.

We pull our 27-FB with a 2017 Durango R/T with the 5.7L Hemi. 10,000+ miles over the past two years, Florida Keys to Cape Breton Island - including the Blue Ridge Pkwy. Excellent TV, no hunting with the 8-speed trans, 13.5 mpg ave. Plus, a much nicer car to drive around when not towing - wife doesn't like driving a pickup.
http://www.snodoglog.com/images/1197-EnrouteHome1.jpg

Henry Clews
NH in summer, FL in winter

Nice looking rig; remember, towing isn't the problem for a vehicle; pretty much any vehicle can tow a trailer...it's controlling a heavy TT like an AS, at highway speeds that's more important to consider...also payload....what is the payload of your SUV? What is the tongue weight of your AS? Add that to the total passenger weight and any cargo you carry...are you within the max payload on your driver door sticker??:cool: If so, things are looking good...:flowers:

aftermath 05-17-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad (Post 2242135)
Yea; who knows what happened...how old the hitch/condition, tire situation, etc... :brows: But, at least he was trying to be safe by using a WDH... Like I said earlier, to each his own...best of luck with not using a WDH and towing with a smaller TV then recommended for the size AS you have! Listen to who you want; follow your own zen...just try not to have an accident that involves others...:lol:


And here it is. You can't tow that trailer with your truck! And, you just might kill some of us on the road.


There are a lot of people out there that hook up their new trailer to their existing TV without giving it any thought. You are thinking about all of the issues and, I might add, perhaps over thinking a bit. You will never know your actual TW until you load things up and get it measured at the scales. You like your HA (or PP) hitch and have mentioned it several times. While they claim to provide the best anti sway out there, I don't think they are superior when it comes to WD. I tow a 25FB with my 2017 Tundra and use an Equalizer hitch. My TW, as measured at the scales, is very close to 950.



I have no trouble pulling this set up over the mountains and I have little trouble stopping it. While the braking capacity of the truck is important you must remember that the truck does not stop the trailer by itself. Proper setups will make the braking experience optimal. I am not familiar with the 25RB model but I do know that we have very little "storage" capacity in our FB. How much weight are you planning on putting in storage? How will this affect the TW? I certainly would not choose one model over the other based on this.



You asked for opinions. Here is mine. Your truck will do the job. Your hitch will help distribute the weight nicely. Your tongue weight will be in the 900-1000 pound range. You should go with the 25 over the 23 as no one says "I wish I had a smaller trailer". I have over 40K miles of towing my setup. I used an 08 Tundra before I got my new one. I have never had any issues with sway, travel light as it is only my wife and I. My combo sits level even when we add things like, generator, extra water and a few chairs. Go for it. With your experience towing, you will be just fine.

gypsydad 05-17-2019 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242178)
You're wrong. A pickup truck is engineered to take more load on the rear axle than the front axle. That's why your rear axle has a higher load rating. When unloaded it has too much load on the front axle. When loaded it will have a better weight distribution. If you have more load in the front your vehicle won't handle or brake properly. You want more load on the rear.

I can definitely say that my Airstream doesn't sway. I load it properly. Sway seems to be something that hitch salesmen use to frighten people into buying their product. It's not going to happen if your tow vehicle is big enough and you're loaded properly.

Well, you seem to be one of the "exceptions" on the road we all want to stay away from for safety reasons!:cool: Your AS "doesn't sway"...until it does due to wind or an emergency maneuver....but some lucky people have never experienced this (yet), so maybe that's why you think it will never happen...count your blessings and be safe. Lots of great experienced advice here...but some folks choose not to follow it. As I said earlier, to each his own...:flowers:

gypsydad 05-17-2019 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aftermath (Post 2242351)
And here it is. You can't tow that trailer with your truck! And, you just might kill some of us on the road.


There are a lot of people out there that hook up their new trailer to their existing TV without giving it any thought. You are thinking about all of the issues and, I might add, perhaps over thinking a bit. You will never know your actual TW until you load things up and get it measured at the scales. You like your HA (or PP) hitch and have mentioned it several times. While they claim to provide the best anti sway out there, I don't think they are superior when it comes to WD. I tow a 25FB with my 2017 Tundra and use an Equalizer hitch. My TW, as measured at the scales, is very close to 950.



I have no trouble pulling this set up over the mountains and I have little trouble stopping it. While the braking capacity of the truck is important you must remember that the truck does not stop the trailer by itself. Proper setups will make the braking experience optimal. I am not familiar with the 25RB model but I do know that we have very little "storage" capacity in our FB. How much weight are you planning on putting in storage? How will this affect the TW? I certainly would not choose one model over the other based on this.



You asked for opinions. Here is mine. Your truck will do the job. Your hitch will help distribute the weight nicely. Your tongue weight will be in the 900-1000 pound range. You should go with the 25 over the 23 as no one says "I wish I had a smaller trailer". I have over 40K miles of towing my setup. I used an 08 Tundra before I got my new one. I have never had any issues with sway, travel light as it is only my wife and I. My combo sits level even when we add things like, generator, extra water and a few chairs. Go for it. With your experience towing, you will be just fine.

Sounds right! (only reason to go with the 23' might be if your single...but my single friend who has a new 23', now says he wishes he would have gotten the 25'!) We had 3 25's and love the size; just didn't like the lounge/dinning set up, which is why we moved to the 28 and a larger TV...I loved my F150 EB with the 25's...thought that size was great match up, but I was over the payload rating...didn't understand that part of the equation till a year or more after I owned it...we are all learning and trying to be safe on the road, while enjoying the AS life! (well, let me clarify that...most of us I think are trying!)

smithcreek 05-17-2019 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242178)
You're wrong. A pickup truck is engineered to take more load on the rear axle than the front axle. That's why your rear axle has a higher load rating. When unloaded it has too much load on the front axle.

When the weight goes IN THE BED, sure, right up to the GVWR or GAWR. Most of the weight will end up on the rear axle but some also goes to the front. There's a big difference between that and putting the weight on a hitch that sticks out more than 4' behind the rear axle. At what point is it a problem? I don't know, especially for a vehicle I've never driven or towed with. But you don't seem to have a problem with actually knowing facts before handing out advice do you?

thewarden 05-17-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242178)
You're wrong. A pickup truck is engineered to take more load on the rear axle than the front axle. That's why your rear axle has a higher load rating. When unloaded it has too much load on the front axle. When loaded it will have a better weight distribution. If you have more load in the front your vehicle won't handle or brake properly. You want more load on the rear.

I can definitely say that my Airstream doesn't sway. I load it properly. Sway seems to be something that hitch salesmen use to frighten people into buying their product. It's not going to happen if your tow vehicle is big enough and you're loaded properly.

You can not be serious with your comment that an unloaded trucks front axle is overloaded. :bb: Pickup trucks are designed to take on its load in the box of the truck. Properly loaded, they will never, ever, take weight off the front axle. A properly loaded truck bed may add some weight to the front axle, but not a lot. Case in point, my fifth wheel has a pin weight of about 3500 lbs. My 5th wheel hitch is positioned just slightly ahead of the rear axle. When weighed, the front axle weighs pretty much exactly the same, with or without the trailer. All the pin weight is taken up by the rear axle, as it should.

But, when you add all the weight well behind the rear axle, as is the case with a tow ball, which is also well behind the rear bumper of the vehicle, this changes the dynamic significantly. Now the rear axle acts as a fulcrum and allows the weight placed behind it to lift the weight in front of it taking critical weight off the front tires. Trucks were not designed to do this, hence the WD hitch to correct this situation. Remember, most of the vehicles braking is done by the front wheels, not the rear.

I would guess that 2/3rds of the pickups being driven today don't see much of anything in the box for the most part. So, according to your statement, most trucks are engineered to spend their life driving around with overloaded front axles and are only properly balanced when about a 1000lbs is placed on the ball hitch. I strongly disagree.

When you get right down to it, pickup trucks are not the most ideal tow vehicle, despite the hype and propaganda by the dealers. We are forced to use them for towing to deal with the cargo capacity of most non-truck tow vehicles. Case in point. I tow my AS with an SUV and a 1 ton truck. The only thing the 1 ton has over the SUV is cargo carrying capacity and a bit more power. The SUV is a twin turbo V8, so it is not lacking in power for towing. When towing with the SUV, it handles, manuveres, and brakes significantly better than the truck in all circumstances. Unfortunately, If I want to load up on the camping gear and take the teenager with us, We are relegated to the truck as the SUV would be over its capacity.

Anyway, you stick with no WD or sway control on your truck. You are in Florida and I am in Western Canada so we are not likely to meet on the road.

out of sight 05-17-2019 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarden (Post 2242372)
You can not be serious with your comment that an unloaded trucks front axle is overloaded. :bb: Pickup trucks are designed to take on its load in the box of the truck. Properly loaded, they will never, ever, take weight off the front axle. A properly loaded truck bed may add some weight to the front axle, but not a lot. Case in point, my fifth wheel has a pin weight of about 3500 lbs. My 5th wheel hitch is positioned just slightly ahead of the rear axle. When weighed, the front axle weighs pretty much exactly the same, with or without the trailer. All the pin weight is taken up by the rear axle, as it should.

But, when you add all the weight well behind the rear axle, as is the case with a tow ball, which is also well behind the rear bumper of the vehicle, this changes the dynamic significantly. Now the rear axle acts as a fulcrum and allows the weight placed behind it to lift the weight in front of it taking critical weight off the front tires. Trucks were not designed to do this, hence the WD hitch to correct this situation. Remember, most of the vehicles braking is done by the front wheels, not the rear.

I would guess that 2/3rds of the pickups being driven today don't see much of anything in the box for the most part. So, according to your statement, most trucks are engineered to spend their life driving around with overloaded front axles and are only properly balanced when about a 1000lbs is placed on the ball hitch. I strongly disagree.

When you get right down to it, pickup trucks are not the most ideal tow vehicle, despite the hype and propaganda by the dealers. We are forced to use them for towing to deal with the cargo capacity of most non-truck tow vehicles. Case in point. I tow my AS with an SUV and a 1 ton truck. The only thing the 1 ton has over the SUV is cargo carrying capacity and a bit more power. The SUV is a twin turbo V8, so it is not lacking in power for towing. When towing with the SUV, it handles, manuveres, and brakes significantly better than the truck in all circumstances. Unfortunately, If I want to load up on the camping gear and take the teenager with us, We are relegated to the truck as the SUV would be over its capacity.

Anyway, you stick with no WD or sway control on your truck. You are in Florida and I am in Western Canada so we are not likely to meet on the road.

You are forgetting the fact that there is a 1000 pound engine sitting on the front wheels. If somehow the manufacturer could achieve a 50/50 weight distribution in a front engine vehicle without disturbing the vehicle layout he would surely do it. In order to balance the vehicle for optimal handling and braking you need at east half of the total weight over the rear wheels. It would not be wise to use a weight distribution hitch to put load from the rear axle over to the front axle when there is already too much load there.

out of sight 05-17-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithcreek (Post 2242359)
When the weight goes IN THE BED, sure, right up to the GVWR or GAWR. Most of the weight will end up on the rear axle but some also goes to the front. There's a big difference between that and putting the weight on a hitch that sticks out more than 4' behind the rear axle. At what point is it a problem? I don't know, especially for a vehicle I've never driven or towed with. But you don't seem to have a problem with actually knowing facts before handing out advice do you?

Don't think about the hitch. Think about what is the best weight distribution for the tow vehicle for optimal handling and braking. If you need a hitch to achieve that then that's fine. But in many cases the hitch will actually worsen the situation.

bono 05-17-2019 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242406)
You are forgetting the fact that there is a 1000 pound engine sitting on the front wheels. If somehow the manufacturer could achieve a 50/50 weight distribution in a front engine vehicle without disturbing the vehicle layout he would surely do it. (...)

BMW is "achieving" this for decades.

out of sight 05-17-2019 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono (Post 2242409)
BMW is "achieving" this for decades.

Correct. A BMW needs a wd hitch to tow a trailer with more than a few hundred pounds of tongue weight.

thewarden 05-17-2019 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242407)
Don't think about the hitch. Think about what is the best weight distribution for the tow vehicle for optimal handling and braking. If you need a hitch to achieve that then that's fine. But in many cases the hitch will actually worsen the situation.

OK, you need to stop espousing your opinion as if it were some sort of fact. Some folks on here are actually looking for advise on an issue because they do not know something and your comments, which come across as fact, may be taken to heart, which is just plain dangerous.

Your posts demonstrate to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of physics or engineering, you do not understand the principles of either.

out of sight 05-17-2019 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarden (Post 2242411)
OK, you need to stop espousing your opinion as if it were some sort of fact. Some folks on here are actually looking for advise on an issue because they do not know something and your comments, which come across as fact, may be taken to heart, which is just plain dangerous.

Your posts demonstrate to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of physics or engineering, you do not understand the principles of either.

I am espousing facts. Heeding my advice will make you safer.

bono 05-17-2019 02:31 PM

https://i.imgur.com/EECUS4j.jpg

smithcreek 05-17-2019 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2242410)
Correct. A BMW needs a wd hitch to tow a trailer with more than a few hundred pounds of tongue weight.

Weird... In the past month you've become an expert on towing with BWM's also?

Quote:

Originally Posted by out of sight (Post 2227634)
He's towing a 4500 lb trailer with a 450 lb tongue weight using a BMW diesel rated to tow 6000 lbs with a 600 lb tongue weight. Assuming he doesn't exceed the BMW payload limit by overloading the back of the car he's well within safe tow limits, with or without a weight distribution hitch.

And that's the advice you gave with absolutely no idea that the hitch in question was some oddball Euro-hitch, completely inadequate for towing a 22' AS. Luckily in that thread there was a person or two with actual BMW towing experience to give good advice and recommend an aftermarket hitch with WD capability.


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