Airstream Forums

Airstream Forums (http://www.airforums.com/forums/)
-   Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/)
-   -   Airstream 25RB with 1300 Pounds of Payload on TV? (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/airstream-25rb-with-1300-pounds-of-payload-on-tv-195361.html)

cru-in 05-07-2019 04:46 PM

Airstream 25RB with 1300 Pounds of Payload on TV?
 
Hi Team,

We have a fully loaded 2019 Ram 1500 (great truck). It has a 3.92 rear, hemi, long bed and a tow rating of north of 10K pounds. With the 3.92, hemi, and a long bed it is a fine towing machine. However, all those nice goodies reduce the payload to 1300 pounds. Nothing is usually loaded in the truck except 300 pounds of passengers and 70 pounds of dog.

To stay comfortably within the payload limits, we are looking at a 23FB and a 23CB. Running the numbers, and reading the posts, these would pretty easily come in under 800 pounds transferred to the TV after WD (plan to use a hensley). Leaving us at least 500 pounds for Me, DW, and Dog

First question: Am I missing anything in reaching the conclusion I could comfortably tow either the 23CB (660 pound TW with propane and batteries) or the 23FB (439 pound TW with propane and batteries)? We would use a hensley Hitch.

Second Question: Reading on this forum that a fully loaded 25RB, running a Hensley hitch, only transferred 800 pounds to the TV. Given the location of the storage and such, it is much less than a 25FB. Is it reasonable to expect I could comfortably tow a properly loaded 25RB?

Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
Dan

P.S. I have lots of experience towing RVs, boats, etc. Looking to make sure we have an easy drive and are not fighting the trailer the whole way. Have used and loved the Hensley hitch. :)

Hans627 05-07-2019 05:00 PM

Hello and welcome to the Forum. It's a great place to learn and share.

Regarding the RAM 1500, it is a great truck. The achilles heal of the RAM 1500 is payload as you already know. Towing a 23 or a 25 AS will pose no issues, especially with the 3.93 rear.

I towed a 25FB with my RAM 1500 with 3.55 rear. It worked relatively well except with the 3.55 it seemed to be "hunting" the right gear in hilly terrain. A lot of engine revving. When I got my 27FB I decided to go with a 2500 diesel. I hated to part with my 1500 but and happy with my decision.

My RAM 1500 had a published payload of about 900 pounds. But my biggest concern was keeping the weight of the truck within the axle ratings (3900 each for front and rear in my case). It was close but I was successful. However I was limited to what I could carry. So if you plan on hauling a lot of "stuff" you may have an issue.

If you have any specific questions just ask.

All the best!

KK4YZ 05-07-2019 05:39 PM

Hi,
I think youíll be fine. Keep in mind that a WD hitch usually transfers about 2/3 of the trailer tongue weight to the tow vehicle, with the remaining 1/3 going to the trailer wheels. I have a Tundra with a 1300 lb payload rating and pull a 23D (aka 23CB). Itís specs are very similar to RAM 1500 with hemi. I took it to the scales coming back from a trip (full water tank). I was just under the Tundra GVWR (7200 lb) but well below the axle weights. The Tundra does a fine job of pulling our AS.

A gas engine generates power by increasing RPM. Yes, it will rev going up steep hills, but itís supposed to do that...just stay well south of the redline.

Youíll be fine pulling a 23 or 25í AS with your truck.

Beware: there are folks here that will tell you that anything less than a monster truck is not worthy of pulling a 25í AS. Others will tell you that a properly set up SUV with a V6 is all you need. Indeed many do it.

cru-in 05-07-2019 05:56 PM

Wow thanks for the quick and insightful inputs.

If, as I have read on several posts, a fully loaded 25RB (with WD engaged) imparts 800 pounds to the TV, I could tow the 25RB and stay within the trucks specs. The key is the rear bed (RB) versus the front bed (FB). The RB's aft storage, coupled with a Hensley or PP, would allow me to tow sway free at TW of 10% to 12% of trailer weight.

I also want to hear from the anyone who think pulling a 25RB with our TV is foolish and unsafe. So I encourage all those inputs so i can carefully consider our path forward.

Hoping for more thoughts, inputs , and opinions.

Thanks again
Dan

uraljohn 05-07-2019 06:15 PM

AS published tongue weights
 
The supplied AS tongue weights are a bit low. We have a 2017 23D (now a CB) and our tongue weight is a bit north of 800 lbs all ready to hit the road. I have verified this with several weigh ins at the CAT scales. I do a 4 pass weigh in. First TV only, then TV and AS no WD, then TV and AS with WD, finally I drop AS on scale alone with axles and tongue on separate scale sections to get fairly accurate readings. Cat scales are second nature to me as I am an over the road truck driver and have scaled hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

We have just moved up to a 2019 FC 25 RB twin as of last Tuesday. (2017 23D sold to the first person that called on it). Our first outing will be Memorial Day weekend and I will Cat scale everything on new set up but expect at least 1000 lbs tongue weight.

Bottom line, do not go by the AS Factory published tongue weights.

cru-in 05-07-2019 06:35 PM

Quoting from a few other posts I found searching for "25RB and Tongue Weight" on the Forum:

"We have friends who own a 2015 FC25RB. Their loaded tongue weight is 800 lbs. I think the difference is caused by all of their external storage being in back while all of our is in front, plus the extra 88 lbs. of hitch weight Airstream built in."

and

"When ready to travel and hitch weight distribution set, what matters to the tow vehicle is how much weight is added to the truck with the trailer hooked up. The difference between our loaded truck and our loaded truck with our FC25RB Airstream attached with a ProPride hitch is 820 lbs weighing truck and then truck and trailer at the CAT scale. The load on each of the truck's axles is within 20 lbs of each other and less than axle ratings. The loading is what we need for 6-7 months cross-country travel."

and

"...ready to travel tongue weight is 800 lbs."


Seems to indicate, fully loaded and WDH engaged, 800(ish) pound load on the truck is a reasonable expectation.

Thoughts?

cru-in 05-07-2019 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uraljohn (Post 2239116)
The supplied AS tongue weights are a bit low. We have a 2017 23D (now a CB) and our tongue weight is a bit north of 800 lbs all ready to hit the road. I have verified this with several weigh ins at the CAT scales. I do a 4 pass weigh in. First TV only, then TV and AS no WD, then TV and AS with WD, finally I drop AS on scale alone with axles and tongue on separate scale sections to get fairly accurate readings. Cat scales are second nature to me as I am an over the road truck driver and have scaled hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

We have just moved up to a 2019 FC 25 RB twin as of last Tuesday. (2017 23D sold to the first person that called on it). Our first outing will be Memorial Day weekend and I will Cat scale everything on new set up but expect at least 1000 lbs tongue weight.

Bottom line, do not go by the AS Factory published tongue weights.

Thanks, congrats on the new 25 rb! What TV are you towing the 25rb with?

Countryboy59 05-07-2019 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cru-in (Post 2239111)
Wow thanks for the quick and insightful inputs.

If, as I have read on several posts, a fully loaded 25RB (with WD engaged) imparts 800 pounds to the TV, I could tow the 25RB and stay within the trucks specs. The key is the rear bed (RB) versus the front bed (FB). The RB's aft storage, coupled with a Hensley or PP, would allow me to tow sway free at TW of 10% to 12% of trailer weight.

I also want to hear from the anyone who think pulling a 25RB with our TV is foolish and unsafe. So I encourage all those inputs so i can carefully consider our path forward.

Hoping for more thoughts, inputs , and opinions.

Thanks again
Dan

Why donít you try it and see? The Hemi has enough power to pull that. You can look into ways to beef up the rear suspension and see how it goes. Does it tow level? Pretty easy to find out.
If it doesnít work out, get a 2500. I got tired of worrying about weight and balance and, of course, soon got a bigger trailer. And with the 2500 you can get the diesel.

cru-in 05-08-2019 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2239222)
Why donít you try it and see? The Hemi has enough power to pull that. You can look into ways to beef up the rear suspension and see how it goes. Does it tow level? Pretty easy to find out.
If it doesnít work out, get a 2500. I got tired of worrying about weight and balance and, of course, soon got a bigger trailer. And with the 2500 you can get the diesel.

Thanks for the input. As the truck has factory air suspension (another item that eats up payload), I suspect it will tow level.

Concur on the power. Plus I feel the 3.92 will assure it tows fine. Also feel the longbed ( foot longer wheel base) will help with stability. It is a tad longer than my previous F250.

Wondering how reasonable the 800 pounds of imparted load to the truck (after WDH) for a "ready to camp" 25RB is. Seems like at least two folks have reported these level using a Hensley.

Bill M. 05-08-2019 07:57 AM

My 30 year old 25' Excella RB (twin) does impart 800 lbs load to the truck when hitched. I left the hitch head in the truck so that weight is not counted in the 800. No heavy hitch. I hitch the wd tight enough to get the front axle about back to the unloaded weight. I do not know the actual tongue weight. The newer wide body trailers are heavier on the GWR sticker. But I do not know how they balance.

Random shots: I like the 25' trailer size. I have not camped in the smaller ones. How much space do you have between the "payload" and the actual gross axle weights? I think all of the trailer added weight will be on the rear axle. Does the truck have a "payload" sensor that will void the warranty? And we decided the first 150 lbs of the driver and a full tank of gas do not count in the payload. What kind of tires are on the truck? Might be worth buying a Sherline scale first and just going an measuring some tongue weights. I think you can pull a 25 if you wish.

jeffmc306 05-08-2019 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cru-in (Post 2239089)
Hi Team,

We have a fully loaded 2019 Ram 1500 (great truck). It has a 3.92 rear, hemi, long bed and a tow rating of north of 10K pounds. With the 3.92, hemi, and a long bed it is a fine towing machine. However, all those nice goodies reduce the payload to 1300 pounds. Nothing is usually loaded in the truck except 300 pounds of passengers and 70 pounds of dog.

To stay comfortably within the payload limits, we are looking at a 23FB and a 23CB. Running the numbers, and reading the posts, these would pretty easily come in under 800 pounds transferred to the TV after WD (plan to use a hensley). Leaving us at least 500 pounds for Me, DW, and Dog

First question: Am I missing anything in reaching the conclusion I could comfortably tow either the 23CB (660 pound TW with propane and batteries) or the 23FB (439 pound TW with propane and batteries)? We would use a hensley Hitch.

Second Question: Reading on this forum that a fully loaded 25RB, running a Hensley hitch, only transferred 800 pounds to the TV. Given the location of the storage and such, it is much less than a 25FB. Is it reasonable to expect I could comfortably tow a properly loaded 25RB?

Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
Dan

P.S. I have lots of experience towing RVs, boats, etc. Looking to make sure we have an easy drive and are not fighting the trailer the whole way. Have used and loved the Hensley hitch. :)

Cru-in, welcome to the forums!

We were in a similar situation as you last year. We had a VW Touareg TDI and purchased a FC23FBQ because it had the lowest publish tongue weight 471#. That actually turned out to be closer to 700#. We used a Blue Ox SwayPro with 1000# bars to keep the weight down (weighs less than the Hensley). That turned out to be a great combination of TV and trailer.

While we loved the "Airstream experience", we found the U-shaped dinette of the FC23FBQ a little cramped. We just picked up a 27' Globetrotter FBT and a 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie Sport. It's right on the edge of being over the rear axle max of 4100# when scaled. The FC25's have a slightly higher tongue weight (ours is a little over 1000# measured).

Power and towing is fine with the 3.92 axle but payload is the issue as others have noted.

Here's another post from a related thread of another Ram owner's experience.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post2239153

Good luck with your quest!

cru-in 05-08-2019 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M. (Post 2239291)
My 30 year old 25' Excella RB (twin) does impart 800 lbs load to the truck when hitched. I left the hitch head in the truck so that weight is not counted in the 800. No heavy hitch. I hitch the wd tight enough to get the front axle about back to the unloaded weight. I do not know the actual tongue weight. The newer wide body trailers are heavier on the GWR sticker. But I do not know how they balance.

Random shots: I like the 25' trailer size. I have not camped in the smaller ones. How much space do you have between the "payload" and the actual gross axle weights? I think all of the trailer added weight will be on the rear axle. Does the truck have a "payload" sensor that will void the warranty? And we decided the first 150 lbs of the driver and a full tank of gas do not count in the payload. What kind of tires are on the truck? Might be worth buying a Sherline scale first and just going an measuring some tongue weights. I think you can pull a 25 if you wish.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for responding. I appreciate having another existence proof of a 25RB imparting about 800 pounds to the TV.

Good questions that raise good points. This weekend I will weigh the truck and axles to see margins there. Not sure about the payload sensor, although my intent is not to go over payload.

The tires are OEM and are sized to support the maximum axle weight.

The payload including or excluding 150 pounds for the driver is confusing. I can't find anywhere official this is written. My owners manual is vague.

thanks again for taking the time to respond and help educate me.

out of sight 05-08-2019 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M. (Post 2239291)
Might be worth buying a Sherline scale first and just going an measuring some tongue weights. I think you can pull a 25 if you wish.

Try the bathroom scale method described in the Airstream manual. It's easy and free and more accurate than a CAT scale. Just make sure the trailer is level when you do it.

cru-in 05-08-2019 11:02 AM

found another post that references 800ish pounds on a 25RB:

"I have weighed our tongue 3 times, each time it came out around 880. This is with solar panels, full fresh water, empty black and gray tanks."

My confidence in the realistic TW of around 800 pounds for a loaded 25RB is growing.

Jim J 05-08-2019 11:12 AM

Cat Scale weights for 2005 25 FB Airstream Safari and Tahoe
 
Airstream, Loaded with items for 3 adults, weighed with the adults
25 FB and Tahoe Tow vehicle

Note......................Truck..Tongue...Trailer. ....total
As Measured.............6880.................5560.... ....12440 Hitched
Calculated........................... 618
Measured.................6262.................6178 ........12440 Unhitched

Curb Weight.............5265.................5210...... .. 10475
Cargo........................997................. 968.........1965
Cargo per Adult............................................. .....655

Bill M. 05-08-2019 11:29 AM

Yeah, the payload is confusing. The current thinking seems to be that the "curb weight" includes 150 lbs for the driver and a full tank of gas. So the driver is in curb weight rather than in the "payload". Of all the numbers, I would worry the least about the "payload". Nobody knows what the "payload" is unless they look at the door sticker. The only way to get the "curb weight" is again to read it on a sticker or somewhere. Payload is about impossible to actually measure. But the axle weights are real and easily obtained via CAT scales. I think if you are a couple of hundred under on axle weights you will be within or close to"payload". And with the WD you can somewhat balance the load front to back, unlike just dropping gravel in the bed.

It is pretty much academic to me now. When I bought my trailer I had a 10 year old F150 with 100,000 on the clock and a wimpy v8. I pulled the trailer for a year with it. Local trips up to 300 miles or so and once 700 each way to Jackson Center. I felt under powered and way under braked (drums on the back). I thought it handled fine. When we bought a truck I got a Dodge 2500 Diesel. 12 years later and 225,000 miles on the clock and we are still pulling with it. Leaving for the Rockies again this weekend.

You will probably have the trailer a lot longer than the truck. And you need to be able to live in it. I am definitely not against the smaller ones. But be sure you are happy with it. The idea of light weight appeals to me but I like my bathroom in the 25 at my well advanced age. Trucks trade pretty easy if you are not happy with them.

cru-in 05-08-2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim J (Post 2239379)
Airstream, Loaded with items for 3 adults, weighed with the adults
25 FB and Tahoe Tow vehicle

Note......................Truck..Tongue...Trailer. ....total
As Measured.............6880.................5560.... ....12440 Hitched
Calculated........................... 618
Measured.................6262.................6178 ........12440 Unhitched

Curb Weight.............5265.................5210...... .. 10475
Cargo........................997................. 968.........1965
Cargo per Adult............................................. .....655

Jim,

Thanks for posting. This is very interesting.

I am trying to decipher it. However, I am a bit ignorant on the terms.

Could you define what "Measured" and "As Measured" means?

Thanks
Dan

cazual6 05-08-2019 01:40 PM

Your first mistake, it's a RAM!

Let the RRUMMBBLLIINNGG begin!! Just kidding, had to throw that in there since you were so happy about your RAM.

Go bigger in my opinion.

cru-in 05-08-2019 02:13 PM

I will also be replacing the AGM batteries with lithium... Further reducing the tw..

uraljohn 05-08-2019 02:56 PM

Tow Vehicle for 25 RB twin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cru-in (Post 2239129)
Thanks, congrats on the new 25 rb! What TV are you towing the 25rb with?

We tow with a 2013 Ford E150 XLT Premium van. Factory tow package with brake controller, 5.4 engine, 3.73 Limited slip axle, 8600 GVW package (8 lug axle hubs with load range E Michelins), cargo capacity 2530 lbs, upgraded receiver to Class V for the anticipated tongue weight increase of the 25 footer. We remove the back bench seat, it weighs about 150 lbs! That leaves us with 4 captains seats and plenty of room in the back for travel junk. Pulled the 25' home from Out of Doors mart in Colfax, NC to Hendersonville, NC with no worry. There is a pretty good pull up Black Mountain on I-40 and it held 55 mph with the cruise control engaged all the way up and over. Trans dropped to 3rd gear and engine revved to 2900 RPM. Just grunts right along!

This is a really nice van. Full factory interior with leather, Nav system, rear A/C, back up camera and reverse sensors. I looked for 6 months to find this one. Purchased used from a Toyota dealer in Orlando, FL. Incredible price! They had no idea what it was.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.