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-   -   Easy Start any negatives? Void warranty? (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/easy-start-any-negatives-void-warranty-190396.html)

fishbisquit 12-19-2018 10:11 AM

Easy Start any negatives? Void warranty?
 
Hey Everyone,
Looking at installing an easy start this Spring. In our 2018 sport16 the AC is really really loud, espcially when the compressor kicks in. I've read that the easy start really helps with compressor noise. Wondering if others have found it helps? Also really like the idea of getting a generator in the future and having the option of running the AC with it.

If these easy starts are so great why don't AC manufacturers build them into the units? Why do they have to be installed secondary? Are there negatives, do they hurt the AC units?

Cheers,

moosetags 12-19-2018 10:28 AM

We (actually, SuEllyn) installed an Easy Start unit just about a year ago. It has worked flawlessly. We have used it extensively. We have over one hundred nights of Airstream camping on it. We have used it on shore power and on our Honda 3000 generator.

As to your question about the warranty, I don't have a clue whether of not the installation of the Easy Start voids the warranty. Our unit was about three years old when we installed the Easy Start, so it didn't matter. My guess would be that Dometic would void the warranty for any alteration done to the unit.

As to why Domectic doesn't build their units with Easy Start from the factory, my guess would be that they would have to raise the price slightly. That would probably be unacceptable as most consumers are pretty stupid and would balk at paying the higher price for the unit.

Brian

wulfraat 12-19-2018 10:39 AM

There are no downsides to easy start. Dometic themselves sell an earlier version of a soft starter branded as Dometic.

If there is a failure of the AC, and warrantee is in question, you can simply remove the easy start device and return the AC back to factory, if needed.

StPierre 12-19-2018 10:46 AM

There is a negative to the Easy Start when you use a Honda 2000 , it will not run the compressor at higher elevation. I wish I did more research on this ,as most my camping is above 4000 ft

NoResults 12-19-2018 10:52 AM

It looks like your research should of been on generators. From what I understand the newer Honda will work. If not sell it and get a larger unit or another Honda and hook them together.

The Easy Start is a great product but will not cure all ills. Dave

GMFL 12-19-2018 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat (Post 2191578)
There are no downsides to easy start. Dometic themselves sell an earlier version of a soft starter branded as Dometic.

If there is a failure of the AC, and warrantee is in question, you can simply remove the easy start device and return the AC back to factory, if needed.

Wulfraat is dead on. No worries about easy start.

Wconley 12-19-2018 11:23 AM

I’ve installed them on two A/Cs and have been happy. As for your reason for installing them, there will be a slight reduction in the “thump” you hear when the compressor kicks in. However the volume when running doesn’t change at all. If this is the only reason you have for an Easy Start, I’m not sure I would spend the money.

rmkrum 12-19-2018 11:23 AM

Generator engine power output, no matter what the fuel used, will drop off as altitude increases. As the Overkill Engineering Department Head, I opted for a 3400W Champion Dual Fuel Inverter genset that lives in the truck bed when we travel. It would have to be seriously high altitude to run out of power with that setup, plus an EasyStart installed in the already out of warranty Air Conditioner....

hhendrix 12-19-2018 12:13 PM

Many A/S dealers install the easy start (we have two) and it is usually the same dealer that services the dometic warranty. Think about it.

BTW, we had the heat side of one of our A/C's and I thought it would be a simple fix. Nope, the A/C units are not serviceable and they threw away a perfectly good unit and installed a new under my extended warranty. Also, they reinstalled my easy start in the new one at no charge.

VaTravelers 12-20-2018 10:07 AM

I had 2 Micro Air Easy Starts installed during my JC warranty visit on my 2017 International. They work great and I can run one off my Eu2000i with not problem. I was told they void the Dometic Warranty but that was not an issue since mine was just about to run out. They do start softer and are quieter when they do.

ejami5 12-20-2018 10:23 AM

Hi Fishbisquit, when I purchased my then new 2017 20' FC, the A/C was insanely loud (much more so than my 2015 non-ducted International) in addition to the vibration from the floor that I could feel through my shoes. I spoke to the MicroAir folks at the 2018 International rally this past summer and they pretty much said what Wconley already posted. It will help with the initial start but probably not with the noise while running. I'm now on my 3rd new Dometic A/C unit on the FC and (thank goodness) it is not as noisy as the first 2 units but (sadly) still not quieter than the International.

cazual6 12-20-2018 10:33 AM

I just had mine installed from AS LA. They stock those items now at their shop.

I've turned it ON using shore power at my house, but everything I've about EasyStart has been positive.

Glenn T 12-20-2018 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StPierre (Post 2191588)
There is a negative to the Easy Start when you use a Honda 2000 , it will not run the compressor at higher elevation. I wish I did more research on this ,as most my camping is above 4000 ft

I think that the AC in the 16' Airstream is smaller. It might draw less power.

In my experience, the Easy Start has been fantastic. My 20FC has a replacement AC made by Atwood. It was able to start on a Honda 2000i - the brochure even suggested it - but that was only with the generator's ECO switch turned off.

With the Easy Start, I can run AC easily in ECO mode. I've also used it at elevation without trouble. To me, the most useful feature of the Easy Start is the ability to run the refrigerator, converter and AC all at the same time on household power. That is, with nothing else on the circuit and a 30 to 15 amp adaptor right on the camper's 30 amp power cord. (No extension cords.)

Glenn

banderabob 12-20-2018 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StPierre (Post 2191588)
There is a negative to the Easy Start when you use a Honda 2000 , it will not run the compressor at higher elevation. I wish I did more research on this ,as most my camping is above 4000 ft

It wonít run it in the flat of Texas either. Need at least the Honda 2200.....at least Iíve read a post that the 2200 is sufficient.

JohnTF 12-20-2018 11:53 AM

Easystart is a brand , and there are number of products that do the easy starting by using capacitors to store some energy to help voltage sag / or low voltage at source [ up to a point ] .
And every AC unit I've worked on already had starting capacitors in them .
Depending on the brand - easystart - using generally now , may have extra components in it , such as a relay that helps to keep the fan & compressor from coming on at the same time .
Some brands have more components in there units that have some control circuitry to monitor other aspects like if there is enough voltage in the 1st place and again depending on the brand , even more control circuitry for other factors that help the AC unit .
The 1st thing to do if you have issues / old or new , is to have the stock capacitors checked - even if new , there has been counterfeit / let alone bad quality in the electronics field for over 20 yrs.
If you have any abilities yourself , buy a couple capacitors for less than $10 each and add them yourself , if not spend the $50 - $150+ that the kits cost .
Do not wast money if you have one of the voltage monitoring - at the source units , like Progressive Industries - they do the monitoring & will shutdown power from a source that has issues , like low voltage , revers connectors etc.
Then either add some capacitors , or just buy the generic easy-start with the relay .
If you are ok with spending the extra money , then buy the monitoring system up front --- this is best , because now you are protecting the hole trailer electrical system , not just the AC unit .

rmkrum 12-20-2018 12:57 PM

The EasyStart unit from MicroAir is NOT a simple start capacitor. It is a microprocessor-controlled unit that ramps the start voltage to the compressor to prevent the heavy surge that normally occurs when full line voltage is applied to a 'stalled' AC motor. It learns the start characteristics of the compressor, controls fan start, and also monitors over-current conditions, low voltage, restart delays, and other issues at the compressor.

Please do not confuse this device with simple start capacitor kits, external surge protectors, Electrical Management Systems (EMS), and other electrical hardware. It's unique and is designed only for use with air conditioning units.

I'm a satisfied user, not associated with MicroAir, and an engineer...that actually understands how all this stuff works...on a technical level.

wsrb 12-20-2018 02:01 PM

I installed one a couple months ago and it’s working well. The installation was a little stressful being on top of the trailer but otherwise went per the instructions.

Bill M. 12-20-2018 04:14 PM

My Easy Start works just fine and the AC runs on my Honda 2000. We were around 4000 feet. Gas Honda with no modifications. Dry air, in the mid 90's. The generator seemed to be running very easily. 12 year old AC unit.

Yes, the compressor startup is quieter and smoother with the Easy Start even running on shore power. It reduces the "clunk" when the compresser kicks in but not the running noise level after it is going. I do not think the unit hurts the AC but have no way of knowing for sure. My guess is that it might help with the life of the AC rather than hurt it.

It would be an expensive modification for a small gain if you never run the AC on a 2000 generator or if you already have a big generator. But I have spent money in worse ways, I think.

People have run AC units for an awful long time without Easy Start's and I expect the AC companies think they work just fine that way.

BAB 12-20-2018 08:34 PM

I installed the MicroAir on both of my air conditioners. I think they are worth the money just to avoid the grinding cacaphony when the compressors kick on. I’m sure the campers around me probably appreciate NOT hearing the startup noise as well.

Bgibbs 12-20-2018 10:00 PM

I havenít used the Easy Start, but I do have some info on the noise. If you do not have the doubled up gaskets on your a/c units it it likely that the units are actually touching the roof. I had both my units replaced this summer and the drain cups were touching the roof. One of the cups was actually broken. With two gaskets, there is adequate space between the bottom of the unit and the roof and the gaskets provide good noise and vibration deadening.

airdreamers 12-20-2018 10:22 PM

If you intend on running your AC or anything on a generator in high elevations, you might benefit by changing the carb inlet jet to a high altitude jet at a cost of $10+and 30 minute time. Just Google it.

Wconley 12-21-2018 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banderabob (Post 2191956)
It wonít run it in the flat of Texas either. Need at least the Honda 2200.....at least Iíve read a post that the 2200 is sufficient.

Iíve run our 13,500 BTU unit from both our household garage 20 amp circuit and with our Honda 2000 generator with no issues. However, we are at only about 400 feet so time will tell if the Honda will work out at higher elevations. The folks at Micro-Air advised putting the Easy Start on our 13,500 A/C rather than the front 15,000 BTU A/C to leave more headroom for other trailer systems. It has also made it easier for us to hook up with only a 30 amp and not the 50 amp cord if we arenít going to be using a lot of electronics. That helps me avoid cursing as I wrestle with the 50 amp monster, much to the amusement of our camp neighbors.

trepine 12-21-2018 02:34 AM

Just add a turbo or supercharger to your generator. That will fix the problem. ;) Thatís why lots of small aircraft have turbos. Itís partly for horsepower, but more to stuff more air molecules at altitude into the engine for combustion. Otherwise your performance drops rapidly as you climb.

Of course the alternate is to just have a larger gen from the start so you have enough horsepower at altitude to generate enough amps.

mbubbaca 12-21-2018 08:33 AM

I've had the easystart on my 25 Safari 2000 for about a year. No problems, I have paired it with a Honda 2200 from the company that converts them to LP only (Propane and Natural Gas Honda Generators - Genconnex)
It worked flawlessly in the Southwest with some pretty hot days and some altitude. When I ordered the generator, they included at No Charge additional carb, jets for the altitude I expect to need. It's been a very good combination for me. I have peace of mind that I am using components that are designed for what I need and by companies that back them. I paid too much for my Airstream to skimp or try and rig something up.

kpm 12-21-2018 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdreamers (Post 2192123)
If you intend on running your AC or anything on a generator in high elevations, you might benefit by changing the carb inlet jet to a high altitude jet at a cost of $10+and 30 minute time. Just Google it.

Getting the high altitude jet is easy, but I haven't found any complete installation instructions for it. The closest I've found is on this blog post containing the following instructions:

Quote:

The screws on top of the carburetor can be removed and the unit can be separated into two halves. On one-half, you’ll see the main jet, located in the center of the body, and the pilot jet, located near the side. Both jets are brass with a wide slot designed for a flathead screwdriver. Unscrew the main jet and screw in the jet included in the kit. Turn the pilot screw to the position specified in the service manual to match the jet kit you are using. Reassemble the carburetor and reinstall it on the engine.
Do you know how to adjust the pilot jet screw?

Bgibbs 12-21-2018 09:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of the broken drip tray mentioned above. If these are touching the roof, you will get a lot of noise inside.

madmac157 12-26-2018 06:58 PM

Easy Start with Westinghouse 2500 works great
 
MicroAir will sell a bundle that includes the EasyStart, all you need to install it for your AS, and a Westinghouse 2500 inverter/generator. The Westinghouse works great, even up to 7000 feet with my 2018 Basecamp. Give them a call and they'll walk you through it all. Customer service was great when I got mine.

Mark

AirUSN 01-08-2019 03:48 PM

So far so good with EasyStart since June '17 Eddie Bauer 25

Shiny16 01-08-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banderabob (Post 2191956)
It wonít run it in the flat of Texas either. Need at least the Honda 2200.....at least Iíve read a post that the 2200 is sufficient.

The 16 has a much smaller AC unit the a 19.

banderabob 01-09-2019 07:41 AM

I originally posted that my Honda 2000 would start but not continue to operate my AC, we have the Easy Start. In packing for our current trip, I noticed that the Eco-mode switch was on. Anxious to see if it will now run with that switch off.

airdreamers 01-10-2019 01:00 PM

I was told that in most cases you have to turn off the 110V to 12V convertor and run the frige on gas, which also needs 12V for the control board and elec ignitor. Less load on the generator.


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