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-   -   Tow Limits (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/tow-limits-174222.html)

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027371)
That is a total exaggeration of the point in the post you just quoted!



Not really. Just an extension. An extension that is backed by as much fact as an assertion that the OPs proposed combination, properly set up, would be any kind of undue safety hazard at all.

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:44 AM

Your last reply is non-responsive regarding the troll-ish comments you keep making, just to have the illusion of being right IMO.

One person's "extension" can also be an exaggeration.

Over and out.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:44 AM

Vehicle tow limits are “one size fits all” limits that are set by vehicle manufacturers for mass produced vehicles.

It is an assumption that hitches, anti sway devises, effective trailer brakes, and prudent vehicle/hitch modifications can not extend these generally imposed limits.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027380)
Your last reply is non-responsive regarding the troll-ish comments you keep making, just to have the illusion of being right IMO.

One person's "extension" can also be an exaggeration.

Over and out.



Why does disagreeing with your position in a like tone as the tone you project make me “trollish”?

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027376)
So five wrongs make a right?

No, but driving has risks we all take on the road. The only way to really be safe is to stay off the road. I just steer clear of anything that looks unstable. If you think a CAT scale slip on the seat of your $50,000 tow vehicle towing a $100,000 Airstream is going to keep you safe from the lawyers if you wreck you're kidding yourself.

I keep going back to the OPs question. The Highlander will tow a 22'. He may actually tow safer than someone who's been to the CAT scale 5 times today and adjusted each tire pressure to that individual wheel load. And might be a lot more fun to camp next to.

uncle_bob 10-28-2017 10:32 AM

Hi

I woud suggest that considering the warranty (and possible legal) impact of any mods to a vehicle *is* a legitimate concern. How big an issue - that depends.

The laws about "no impact to warranty from normal servicing" may not cover a 24" lift kit on a Honda Civic. I'll guarantee that how much impact they have will depend more on how much of a jerk you run into at the Honda dealer than anything else. Over the years, Honda has been *very* understanding on my vehicles ....

I have sat on a jury when some of this stuff came up. How much of an impact it had ... that's a different issue. Another jury might not have seen things the same way. Any lawyer worth having will toss up a lot of stuff "just to see if it sticks". These days, anybody that *isn't* on a cell phone while driving is way ahead of the rest of the crowd "legal wise".

Insurance always depends on the company and to some extent on the adjuster. My observation over the years is that to some degree you get what you pay for. The outfit that insures your $100,000 trailer for full replacement and charges you $50 a year ..... may not pay off no matter what the facts are. If I'm drunk and on the cell phone, none of them are going to be real happy covering the loss.

The flip side on dealer issues is that warranties aren't forever and ever. Not every vehicle has a 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty. I don't have to look very far out my front door to see vehicles with all sorts of mods on them. That may just be the part of the world I live in.

It's not black and white, there *are* very legitimate issues things to consider.

Bob

richw46 10-28-2017 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027335)
But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

It doesn't exceed the towing capacity of the TV but it does exceed the max hitch capacity by 163 lbs. A WDH will reduce some of that, but I don't know by how much.

The specs on my 4Runner say 700 lbs. hitch maximum, but the receiver says that when it's used in weight distribution its maximum is 1,095 lbs. I would assume that the OP's receiver will have a similar label on it, stating its maximum, most likely higher in WD than WC.

My opinion on the OP's Highlander is that as long as he keeps his AS and TV cargo to a minimum and his speed no higher than 65 on the Interstates, he'll be OK, but he is right at capacity. He'll have to decide if that's safe enough for him. :wally:

KK4YZ 10-28-2017 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2027179)
Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.

Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.

Ok. The gvwr is 5000 lbs. that doesn’t mean you have to load the trailer to its limit. Even at that, you’re not exceeding the rated tow capacity if I understand this right.
On the fridge, keep in mind that it takes a evaporative unit many hours to cool down. We freeze water in milk cartons and place in the fridge to cool it down til the fridge takes over.
I suppose you could investigate if any AS come with 3 Way units (110vac/12vdc/LP) but I don’t know how common those are.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2027402)
Hi

I woud suggest that considering the warranty (and possible legal) impact of any mods to a vehicle *is* a legitimate concern. How big an issue - that depends.

The laws about "no impact to warranty from normal servicing" may not cover a 24" lift kit on a Honda Civic. I'll guarantee that how much impact they have will depend more on how much of a jerk you run into at the Honda dealer than anything else. Over the years, Honda has been *very* understanding on my vehicles ....

I have sat on a jury when some of this stuff came up. How much of an impact it had ... that's a different issue. Another jury might not have seen things the same way. Any lawyer worth having will toss up a lot of stuff "just to see if it sticks". These days, anybody that *isn't* on a cell phone while driving is way ahead of the rest of the crowd "legal wise".

Insurance always depends on the company and to some extent on the adjuster. My observation over the years is that to some degree you get what you pay for. The outfit that insures your $100,000 trailer for full replacement and charges you $50 a year ..... may not pay off no matter what the facts are. If I'm drunk and on the cell phone, none of them are going to be real happy covering the loss.

The flip side on dealer issues is that warranties aren't forever and ever. Not every vehicle has a 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty. I don't have to look very far out my front door to see vehicles with all sorts of mods on them. That may just be the part of the world I live in.

It's not black and white, there *are* very legitimate issues things to consider.

Bob

As far as warranties go, I can't remember the last time I had to use a warranty. Who cares? Drivetrain components in HD trucks don't break in most usage. Most of my vehicles hit 70k miles in two years. Cars and SUVs might be another story.

By the way, it's legal to be "on a cell phone" while driving in most places (some require hands free device) and unless you have a sit-down, 8 hours-and-go-home job most people need to be available while driving. If you crash taking a phone call with today's technology you shouldn't be driving.

Anyway, my dash cams (front and rear) are always rolling.

CRH 10-28-2017 01:37 PM

As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

Adventure.AS 10-28-2017 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRH (Post 2027460)
As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

Unfortunately, if you are towing they will likely deny any warranty no matter how much under the ratings you were. I know from experience that at least one of the big 3 will assume that you must have gone over the limits and claim abuse on your part to avoid having to honor the warranty.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRH (Post 2027460)
As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

I guess I'm used to buying stuff that doesn't break.

bono 10-29-2017 12:39 AM

For what it's worth... I am towing 33 ft long, 7,000 lbs light Jayco trailer with BMW X5. With PP hitch, the combo is stable like rock, no sucking up from semis, obviously no sway, etc.

3k miles ago I had the engine replaced at dealership. Under warranty... The receiver is reinforced (bolted to rear axle carrier), so they even needed to drop the hitch with the reinforcement to drop the exhaust system. No questions asked about the reinforcement, etc.

Concerns about towing and warranty claims? Anybody wants to show up with a trailer at dealership to have the car fixed?

slowmover 10-29-2017 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2026895)
SloMo is on the attack again. Kinda reminds me of a line from Blazing Saddles.... “Who can argue with that? Why that’s genuine frontier jibberish...”

You're offering alternative evidence?

Or just treading water, out of your depth?

slowmover 10-29-2017 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2027501)
Unfortunately, if you are towing they will likely deny any warranty no matter how much under the ratings you were. I know from experience that at least one of the big 3 will assume that you must have gone over the limits and claim abuse on your part to avoid having to honor the warranty.

"Likely"? Based on what? Moss-Magnuson?

I've used Texas dealerships where trucks come in for service. Warranty and otherwise. Unless one has practically broken the frame (and I've seen that) , warranty is going to be honored. Why shouldn't it?

Besides, where ARE these broken tow vehicles? Having towed this trailer type. Uncles cousins wife's co-worker?

jcl 10-29-2017 01:25 AM

It sounds like some posters are assuming that their warranties are for something more than defects in materials and workmanship.

The manufacturer's warranty typically doesn't cover a guarantee of fitness for purpose. If a warranty claim is denied, it is usually because it is for something that isn't covered. You can blame it on the towing, but it would help us all to see the failure analysis report that showed how the towing caused a failure that was not related to a manufacturer's defect. Redact the personal info, and post the service report and failure analysis.

J. Morgan 10-29-2017 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2027505)
I guess I'm used to buying stuff that doesn't break.



Me too. Except, in 1990 I bought Dodge with a Cummins and a five speed Gertag transmission. The transmission failed, and they assumed I overloaded it and didn’t cover the repair.

That is the last Chrysler product I ever bought.

Of course the Gertag was trash, and they knew it.

Other than that, my use of warranties has been slim to none, when I have used one its like “the dome light doesn’t come on when I open the door”.....

I have never had any other kind of major failure under warranty.

Adventure.AS 10-29-2017 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 2027609)
"Likely"? Based on what? Moss-Magnuson?

I've used Texas dealerships where trucks come in for service. Warranty and otherwise. Unless one has practically broken the frame (and I've seen that) , warranty is going to be honored. Why shouldn't it?

Besides, where ARE these broken tow vehicles? Having towed this trailer type. Uncles cousins wife's co-worker?

No Moss-Magnuson in Canada.

The dealer needs to bring the manufacturer's rep who's job is to deny warranty claims. All they have to say is abuse and it is denied. No appeal.

Background: Factory hitch rated for 3,500 lbs and used for towing small 1900 lb (loaded) trailer, Bolts started to pull through bumper attachment points which were just sheet metal.

JMynes 10-29-2017 09:14 AM

A little off topic, but I now have one name in my ‘ignore’ list.

uncle_bob 10-29-2017 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2027437)

By the way, it's legal to be "on a cell phone" while driving in most places (some require hands free device) and unless you have a sit-down, 8 hours-and-go-home job most people need to be available while driving. If you crash taking a phone call with today's technology you shouldn't be driving.
.

Hi

Be really careful with that up here in the north east. A number of states have laws that will not let you have a cell phone in your hand while driving (either for calls or text). Regardless of the law specifically saying you can't, a lot of people still do have the phone up to their ear rolling down the road.

More to the point of this thread, if you are texting or chatting on the phone when there is an accident, that's going to come up. "Distracted driving" as a contributor to the accident will get tossed back and forth. Exactly how that all works out through the twists and turns of insurance and / or a court case - who knows.

Weight limits aren't the only thing that *might* get you tangled up in the event something goes wrong. The list is pretty long ....

Bob


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