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-   -   Tow Limits (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/tow-limits-174222.html)

richw46 10-27-2017 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2027043)
CV-8:
I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.
The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.
Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.

Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show😳

Jim

The tongue weight is more of a problem than the capacity. Pull down the current specs on the 19', 20' and 22' FC at Airstream. The lowest is 550 for the 19', which is 50 lbs. over the 2017 Highlander's spec.
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...ers-Manual.pdf

CV-8 (OP) wants the 20'. That has a 'dry' hitch weight of 631 lbs., 131 over his maximum. It's tight, but with the proper setup on a good WDH I think he can manage. He'll have to watch his payload in both the AS and the TV and keep his speed down.

I have ~1,000 lb. towing wiggle room on my 4Runner but the tongue weight is very close. AS says my tongue weight is only 600 lbs. but using a good scale I show it's 730 lbs. with just minor stuff in the nose and 1/2 bottle of propane. With the 19' FC being 550 lbs. tongue, I'd suspect it's probably closer to 650. He's no worse off going with the 20'.:flowers:

richw46 10-27-2017 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2026759)
They base the tow rating on the hitch receiver capability, not the capability of the vehicle. IMHO if the receiver is upgraded and you don't go over your axle or tow vehicle GWVR then you are good to go.

Based on that thinking then, you could put a class 4 hitch on a Tacoma and pull a 35' AS. Is that what you're saying? :flowers:

I have to disagree with that. The hitch rating has to meet or exceed the vehicle's spec, but you have to go by the manufacturer's towing specs to safely tow anything. You have to be able to stop, turn and control the vehicle while towing. Other than providing a good connection to the TV, reducing sway, the receiver won't help stop, turn or otherwise control the trailer.

richw46 10-27-2017 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2026807)
The 6000 lb Class III hitch referenced is a Draw-tite Class 3 product, not Toyota's. A hitch can be rated up to that, but not every one is.

In terms of tongue weight, what matters are that the receiver is strong enough, and then you move to axle and tire weight limits. It doesn't help to use a Corolla to support your point, unless that Corolla has sufficient axle and tire capacity for the likely tongue weight.

I don't know what hitch brand is used by Toyota, it will vary according to the current purchasing requirements. I do know that whatever Toyota specs the vehicle's towing capacity to be, the hitch will exceed that amount. Vehicle manufacturers are very secretive about their OEM suppliers. I was using Draw-Tite as an example because they are a large manufacturer of hitches and they provided the detail I was looking for.

As an example of what Toyota provides, on my '04 4Runner the towing and hitch capacities are 7,000 and 700. The hitch spec is 7,300 and 730 for WC and 7,300 and 1,095 for WD. Personally, I wouldn't modify my SUV when it was new to tow something larger than what Toyota said was safe, but that's me.:)

Yes, the Corolla is hyperbole, to make a point. You just can't upgrade a receiver and expect the TV to be 'ready to go'. Controlling a trailer is part of the maximum spec. Stopping a trailer won't get better because of an improved receiver.

In the case of the OP, he is asking about his current 2017 vehicle's specs and the ability to pull a 20' AS. There have been several suggestions to take it somewhere and modify the receiver. I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. I understood him to be asking about what he could safely pull with his new Highlander, not how it could be modified to carry something above the manufacturer's specs. But I've been wrong before. Maybe he is considering a structural modification. :wally:

jcl 10-27-2017 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2027055)
Based on that thinking then, you could put a class 4 hitch on a Tacoma and pull a 35' AS. Is that what you're saying? :flowers:

If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

SilverHouseDreams 10-27-2017 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

You are seeing what I found when I first started on this adventure, which I've still only just begun. There are also plenty of users here that will spend many posts convincing you that a 19' or 22FB will never be big enough for you, and that you really must buy a 25' or larger.

We bought our 22FB from a couple that towed it with a Highlander, they towed it around the Pacific NW without any issues. We tow it with a Audi Q5, it was also the vehicle we had already purchased due to a variety of factors (a Highlander was in the running, but some of the Audi features/details won us over)...in our case our Q5 is out of the warranty period and is fully paid off, I don't know what we would replace it with that would actually have measurable improvement other than maybe rated tow capability.

So far on our 2 trips that included mountain passes our little 4-cylinder Q5 has done just fine. Obviously, there are those here that will spend their text convincing me that I will destroy world order by using a 4-cylinder let alone a "cross over" for towing...but its a waste of their time, not mine.

Just my 2-cents and a point of reference, which is likely not worth that much to some.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 02:31 PM

....and hereís another one
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2027085)
If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

Donít try to argue with jc, either...itís no-win. Just pat him on the head and tell him heís right. Itís better that way.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 02:43 PM

I say that the poster on here who has spent his life building winning trailer tow vehicle combinations got in the best word several posts ago. #JustSayin. :)

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2027043)
CV-8:

I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.

The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.

Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.



Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show[emoji15]



Jim



As far as vehicle stability goes, the ProPride and Hensley hitches have no peers.

CV-8 10-27-2017 07:02 PM

Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.

Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2027179)
Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.



Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.



The fridge will run on propane while traveling, but even that is controversial on the forum.... :)

richw46 10-28-2017 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2027085)
If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

Without hyperbole then, my point is, I think it's foolhardy to modify a vehicle to pull a trailer well beyond a manufacturer's specifications. A lot of engineering goes into building a vehicle to make it safely tow, steer and stop a trailer. Modifying that vehicle by enhancing the receiver does nothing to improve the rest of the vehicle's structural safety margin. I certainly wouldn't do it. It's dangerous.

It's just my opinion, however.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2027323)
Without hyperbole then, my point is, I think it's foolhardy to modify a vehicle to pull a trailer well beyond a manufacturer's specifications. A lot of engineering goes into building a vehicle to make it safely tow, steer and stop a trailer. Modifying that vehicle by enhancing the receiver does nothing to improve the rest of the vehicle's structural safety margin. I certainly wouldn't do it. It's dangerous.

It's just my opinion, however.



But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027335)
But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

These threads are always the same. Someone proposes towing 4000lbs with an SUV and by the end of the thread they're in jail, people are dead and insurance is void. "I knew a guy once..."

Troutboy 10-28-2017 09:08 AM

Tow Limits
 
I know a guy now, that tows a 6000lb trailer with a Jeep Grand Cherokee sUV, and it works awesome. ME!

I think Andy T knows plenty as well......

I agree countryboy.......

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:22 AM

The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:29 AM

Tow Limits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027363)
The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:



It sounds to me like the safest move is just for everyone to stay at home right? :)

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027368)
It sounds to me like the safest move is to just for everyone to stay at home right? :)

That is a total exaggeration of the point in the post you just quoted!

"Eyes wide open" especially for newcomers here.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027363)
The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:

Meh. Half the motoring public is speeding, overloaded, drunk or texting. Trailers aren't the issue.

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:36 AM

So five wrongs make a right?

uncle_bob 10-28-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. ......

Hi

I've got nothing against the Highlander at all. I also have a "wife issue" in terms of high off the ground options. That gets mentioned each time we load up the F-250. So far we are moving on ok with it.

Toyota has a "bigger brother" to the Highlander. Ford has an Expedition. They are pretty nice vehicles compared to what they once were. Hang on to you wallet when you go look at any of them ... gulp .... :) . Try ones with the camera systems on them. It makes getting in and out of tight places a whole different experience.

There are a number of Airstream's that can be quite safely towed with a Highlander (by the numbers / stock / no mods / no tricks). As mentioned above there also are ways to fiddle things. There also are some other SUV's that really are not all that crazy to consider.

Bob


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