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-   Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/)
-   -   Tow Limits (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/tow-limits-174222.html)

Countryboy59 10-26-2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2026779)
If the new custom hitch does not void the tow vehicle's mfg. warranty, or result in the insurance not covering any resulting damage in the event of an accident.

:blink:

Plenty of modified vehicles on the road.

J. Morgan 10-26-2017 07:54 PM

If a tow vehicle tows a trailer heavier than its “rated towing capacity” will it tear in half?

Andrew T 10-26-2017 08:31 PM

Hi Trout Boy

I would not be too paranoid about the payload on your Grand Cherokee it will easily handle some additional people and cargo as long as you are connected properly.

The 1100 pound payload is almost all on the back axle as Jeep does not think you will be able to load weight to the front suspension. (There are no seats or Cargo areas at the front.) However with a weight distribution hitch you can move weight to the front axle. With weight distribution you can move about 180 pounds to the front wheels of the Jeep, this will send 150 pounds to the trailer axles leaving only 270 pounds for the rear axle to carry still leaving you about 700 pounds for additional cargo without overloading axle capacities. If you did slightly overload the rear axle of the Jeep I would not be too concerned as the Durango which has an identical chassis but 3 rows of seats is rated to carry a few hundred pounds more.

Load it up with all you really want to carry and take it to a scale, I think you'll find your fine.

Andy

slowmover 10-26-2017 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2026779)
If the new custom hitch does not void the tow vehicle's mfg. warranty, or result in the insurance not covering any resulting damage in the event of an accident.

:blink:

Did you change tire brand last time? Have you ever used other than dealer-sourced parts for a brake job? What about the windshield wipers?

You've no experience, nor examples, to "prove" your assertion, do you?

Not even understanding that the insurance company has assumed liability.

Wrecks with commercial users happen. Liability limits far higher. Vehicles modified by owners in excess of what is contemplated here. Insurance isn't a problem.

.

KK4YZ 10-26-2017 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2026160)
Straw man arguments and insurance gloom-and-doom aside, the OP is talking about towing a 22 with a Highlander. Let's be real; it's probably fine if he has good judgement and driving ability.

The way people run to their insurance for every bump and scrape makes me wonder why insurance is as cheap (?) as it is. I wouldn't insure most people based on just what I see on the road everyday, CAT scale tickets aside.

Protagonist’s story wasn’t straw man. It was real. We can all spin long yarns about how you can tow an AS with a Smart Car, but in the end the OP is the only one that has to live with his decision. However you might take issue with the ratings, they’re there for a reason. Give yourself some margin and don’t worry.

KK4YZ 10-26-2017 10:21 PM

Here we go again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 2026865)
Did you change tire brand last time? Have you ever used other than dealer-sourced parts for a brake job? What about the windshield wipers?

You've no experience, nor examples, to "prove" your assertion, do you?

Not even understanding that the insurance company has assumed liability.

Wrecks with commercial users happen. Liability limits far higher. Vehicles modified by owners in excess of what is contemplated here. Insurance isn't a problem.

.

SloMo is on the attack again. Kinda reminds me of a line from Blazing Saddles.... “Who can argue with that? Why that’s genuine frontier jibberish...”

Troutboy 10-26-2017 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 2026861)
Hi Trout Boy

I would not be too paranoid about the payload on your Grand Cherokee it will easily handle some additional people and cargo as long as you are connected properly.

The 1100 pound payload is almost all on the back axle as Jeep does not think you will be able to load weight to the front suspension. (There are no seats or Cargo areas at the front.) However with a weight distribution hitch you can move weight to the front axle. With weight distribution you can move about 180 pounds to the front wheels of the Jeep, this will send 150 pounds to the trailer axles leaving only 270 pounds for the rear axle to carry still leaving you about 700 pounds for additional cargo without overloading axle capacities. If you did slightly overload the rear axle of the Jeep I would not be too concerned as the Durango which has an identical chassis but 3 rows of seats is rated to carry a few hundred pounds more.

Load it up with all you really want to carry and take it to a scale, I think you'll find your fine.

Andy



Thanks for the info, this makes me feel better! I have an equalizer with, I’ll take her to the scale!

Andrew T 10-27-2017 04:04 AM

If you like send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send you a file on how to measure your setup. If your Jeep has air suspension it is a little trickier to fine tune.

Countryboy59 10-27-2017 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2026882)
Protagonist’s story wasn’t straw man. It was real. We can all spin long yarns about how you can tow an AS with a Smart Car, but in the end the OP is the only one that has to live with his decision. However you might take issue with the ratings, they’re there for a reason. Give yourself some margin and don’t worry.

The OP was asking about towing a 22 with a Highlander. Not my choice but fact is he's within the limits for that. All the rest of the hyperbole in this thread is just that. so is the Airstream/Smart Car scenario.

The OP probably should get a real truck but let's not go off the deep end. It's a 22'.

uncle_bob 10-27-2017 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026848)
If a tow vehicle tows a trailer heavier than its “rated towing capacity” will it tear in half?

Hi

No it likely will not tear in half as you exit the parking lot :)

The question really is "what's the weak link in the chain". We focus a lot on axles. There are a bunch of parts that make up a vehicle. The way the receiver mounts into the chassis *might* be the weak link. Without some experimentation on a specific vehicle, it's going to be hard to know. If axles were the only weak spot in any vehicle design, we'd all just buy a Civic. Then swap the axles and tow 30,000 LB :)

Yes, I'm picking a bit on axles. :) We do focus occasionally on a few other components. I've been known to complain about shocks. I'm also not suggesting axles or their ratings are unimportant.

Bob

Andrew T 10-27-2017 08:10 AM

We do strengthen the receivers, add transmission coolers when needed and sometimes refine tire sizes but otherwise the several hundred of these Toyota platforms we have set up over the last 18 years are stock.

The body structure stays tighter than any body on frame vehicle I can think of. Driveline chassis component problems have been pretty much nil, very little other than normal maintenance.

If there is a weak link we have not found it yet.

Andy

CV-8 10-27-2017 08:29 AM

The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.

For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 08:51 AM

Don’t give up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.

For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.

I’m glad you’re not giving up. Isn’t the 19’ AS well below the 5K lbs that’s been discussed? From the discussion on this thread one can get the idea that setting up a tow vehicle/TT combo is incredibly complex. It is not. Set yourself up with a helpful dealer, like the poster from Ontario and get your margin of safety that way. Also, you’re an engineer. Use your judgement as to what makes sense.

These Airstreams have a low CG and are aerodynamic. They tow like a dream compared to box trailers.

Good luck to you.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 09:01 AM

By the way
 
The 19’ Flying Cloud has a base weight of 3850lbs and a gvwr of 4500 lbs. so what’s wrong with the highlander? I’d say nothing.
As far as the fridge is concerned there are all kinds of things you can do before travel: cool it down the nite before and put in ice. It will stay cool while you travel. Some folks run the fridge on gas while traveling and turn it off while refueling.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.



So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.



For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.



Thats a problem with public specialty forums. There are sometimes too many people who are too eager to tell everyone what wont work and what will go wrong unless it is done exactly like this or exactly like they solved their problem......

That is a part of human nature.

Safety is important, solutions are important, but usually there is more than a single path to the same destination.

There is no doubt in my mind that the combination you propose, setup properly, can be as safe and as stable as any Airstream combination on the road.

FWIW, I have done about everything “wrong” on my Airstream and have been having a great and safe time being wrong for about four years now. :)

Elizabeth, me, and our pups LOVE the Airstream experience spending about half a year living out of our trailer. It would have been a shame if the naysayers would have talked me down.... :)

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 09:11 AM

Tow Limits
 
Your solutions are simple.

A. Have Andrew at CanAm setup your combination.

Or.

B. Buy a ProPride from Sean

By doing so you will have a more stable platform than many Airstreamers who tow with an F350. :)

Both of these professionals who do things to make towing your Airstream a lot safer tend to catch a lot of crap on AirForums. Go figure.

Rfriebele 10-27-2017 11:07 AM

Wow...i haven't read all the responses here but part way through it hit me like a brick just as I'm sure most everyone on this forum will nod in the affirmative just how many are out there, towing RVs in compromised fashion. I personally had little info on how important this is when I went shopping for our AS and sadly, our dealer was more interested in selling us a trailer than educating us on the towing aspects. What helped in our favor was that we picked out our trailer first, then went to buy a truck and asked the truck dealer to show us what we needed to tow it with. The first truck dealer made it kinda obvious they too were more concerned with selling us a truck not looking confident in what it would tow so we went to another who did us right. This is a critical part of the RV buying process that seems to be solely on the customer and we all know how these days, the customer is typically considered an uninformed idiot by most other manufacturers specifically to avoid liability. Even after our experience, I didn't know the dirty details till joining this forum. I'm surprised there haven't been more stories of disaster and lawsuits thinking about the recent rise in RV purchases...
Wow.

Countryboy59 10-27-2017 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026984)
Your solutions are simple.

A. Have Andrew at CanAm setup your combination.

Or.

B. Buy a ProPride from Sean

By doing so you will have a more stable platform than many Airstreamers who tow with an F350. :)

Both of these professionals who do things to make towing your Airstream a lot safer tend to catch a lot of crap on AirForums. Go figure.

Or you could take your Hensley, your trailer, and your F350 to Andy and get the best of both worlds!

xrvr 10-27-2017 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 2026968)
We do strengthen the receivers, add transmission coolers when needed and sometimes refine tire sizes but otherwise the several hundred of these Toyota platforms we have set up over the last 18 years are stock.

The body structure stays tighter than any body on frame vehicle I can think of. Driveline chassis component problems have been pretty much nil, very little other than normal maintenance.

If there is a weak link we have not found it yet.

Andy

As i have learned, the weak link is often the driver and his misconceptions.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 11:31 AM

Shoulda looked at the numbers first
 
CV-8:
I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.
The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.
Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.

Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show😳

Jim


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