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CV-8 10-23-2017 12:30 AM

Tow Limits
 
New member, researching market for my dream machine - an Airstream travel trailer. Have Toyota Highlander, 5000 lb tow. Best seems to be 22FB Sport. Anything heavier may meet empty weight, but GVWR goes over. How strict is tow limit - can it be safely exceeded by several hundred pounds? By 10 percent? Or, stick rigidly under the limit? I know the rules - stay under - but just asking: can small excess be safely managed by careful operation? Thanks.

Protagonist 10-23-2017 05:14 AM

Welcome to thwe AirForums! I wish I could give you the answer you're hoping for, but I can't.

Let me paint you a mental picture, by way of answering your question… Suppose you do exceed the allowable gross trailer weight or the allowable hitch weight, or both, even by a just a hundred pounds. Now suppose you get into an accident with another vehicle, whether it's your fault or theirs doesn't matter. Now suppose your insurance company (or the other guy's insurance company) learns that you exceeded the weight limits when the adjuster (or the responding law enforcement officer) does an investigation.

Know what will happen? They'll deny your coverage, and you'll be stuck paying all bills, both for you and for the other guy, because by exceeding the allowable weight limits, you've just placed yourself at least partially at fault— even if the other guy caused the accident— and both insurance companies would rather you pay than for them to pay. Can you afford that? If the answer is yes, then by all means try it. Otherwise, it's not worth taking a chance.

In purely mechanical terms, a 5000-pound capacity doesn't necessarily mean that something will break at 5,100 pounds; capacities are set with some margin of error. But as soon as you leave your own property, purely mechanical terms aren't the limiting factor anymore; legal terms are.

OTRA15 10-23-2017 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2025187)
. . .
. . . can small excess be safely managed by careful operation? Thanks.

Yes, temporarily, until the answer is a resounding NO, perhaps during a catastrophic failure causing a roll-over accident and loss of life.

Worst case scenario? Yes.

How much do you value your new Airstream and the lives of your family and loved ones?

If you decide to tow and disregard the tow limits please advise us, so we can avoid sharing the road with an admitted reckless driver.

:blink:

PS — Welcome to the forum, and ditto to Protagonist’s more carefully crafted cautions!

CV-8 10-23-2017 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist (Post 2025205)
Welcome to thwe AirForums! I wish I could give you the answer you're hoping for, but I can't.

Let me paint you a mental picture, by way of answering your question… Suppose you do exceed the allowable gross trailer weight or the allowable hitch weight, or both, even by a just a hundred pounds. Now suppose you get into an accident with another vehicle, whether it's your fault or theirs doesn't matter. Now suppose your insurance company (or the other guy's insurance company) learns that you exceeded the weight limits when the adjuster (or the responding law enforcement officer) does an investigation.

Know what will happen? They'll deny your coverage, and you'll be stuck paying all bills, both for you and for the other guy, because by exceeding the allowable weight limits, you've just placed yourself at least partially at fault— even if the other guy caused the accident— and both insurance companies would rather you pay than for them to pay. Can you afford that? If the answer is yes, then by all means try it. Otherwise, it's not worth taking a chance.

In purely mechanical terms, a 5000-pound capacity doesn't necessarily mean that something will break at 5,100 pounds; capacities are set with some margin of error. But as soon as you leave your own property, purely mechanical terms aren't the limiting factor anymore; legal terms are.

Excellent reply. All I need to know. I considered the accident factor, but did not fully appreciate the extent to which even a small excess weight would be analyzed legally. I wonder to what extent overload is intentionally or unknowingly practiced not only by a few recreational folks, but also by contractors and DIYers leaving Home Depot with an overload of purchases. I see it all the time. And no, I would never knowingly skirt the law under any circumstances, once I understand it fully. So, many thanks for the thoughtful reply, my Airstream WILL max out to no more than 5,000. And, most probably considerably less.

jamesonb 10-24-2017 12:26 AM

Make sure you also look at the GCVW for your tow vehicle. We almost purchased something that was rated for 5000lbs but had such a low GCVW that once the curb weight of the car was factored in it only left 2000lbs!!

Countryboy59 10-24-2017 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2025187)
New member, researching market for my dream machine - an Airstream travel trailer. Have Toyota Highlander, 5000 lb tow. Best seems to be 22FB Sport. Anything heavier may meet empty weight, but GVWR goes over. How strict is tow limit - can it be safely exceeded by several hundred pounds? By 10 percent? Or, stick rigidly under the limit? I know the rules - stay under - but just asking: can small excess be safely managed by careful operation? Thanks.

Just be reasonable. There's nothing magic about a hundred pounds over. Insurance doesn't magically disappear when someone breaks a law otherwise no one would be on here bragging about how they do 80 mph with their trailer in tow.

Try towing with the Highlander. If you don't like it, get a bigger TV. That's what I did.

Protagonist 10-24-2017 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2025710)
Insurance doesn't magically disappear when someone breaks a law otherwise no one would be on here bragging about how they do 80 mph with their trailer in tow.

Bet those people bragging didn't have an accident and put their insurance coverage to the test, though…

I knew somebody, now deceased so I can mention his name (Velton Reid of Folsom, LA) who was towing a boat— a 20' Boston Whaler Revenge— that exceeded his pickup's gross trailer weight rating. The pickup was a dinky little Ford Ranger, way too small to tow a 5000-pound boat and trailer. I was riding shotgun in the pickup at the time, so I saw the whole thing. He tried to stop at a red light on a downward grade, but misjudged the stopping distance he'd need, rolled into the intersection, and broadsided a car that was coming through the intersection on the green light. When his insurance company found out he was towing too heavy, they canceled his coverage and left him with the bill for all damages. He showed me the letter the insurance company sent him, and they specifically cited his deliberate and knowing violation of the vehicle's safe towing limit as the reason for canceling his coverage. The insurance company was State Farm.

Insurance is not there to cover you against the consequences of breaking the law. They'rte there to cover you against accidents. And they figure, if you knowingly broke the law, it was no accident…

xrvr 10-24-2017 06:53 AM

There you go!

Countryboy59 10-24-2017 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist (Post 2025716)
Bet those people bragging didn't have an accident and put their insurance coverage to the test, though…

I knew somebody, now deceased so I can mention his name (Velton Reid of Folsom, LA) who was towing a boat— a 20' Boston Whaler Revenge— that exceeded his pickup's gross trailer weight rating. The pickup was a dinky little Ford Ranger, way too small to tow a 5000-pound boat and trailer. I was riding shotgun in the pickup at the time, so I saw the whole thing. He tried to stop at a red light on a downward grade, but misjudged the stopping distance he'd need, rolled into the intersection, and broadsided a car that was coming through the intersection on the green light. When his insurance company found out he was towing too heavy, they canceled his coverage and left him with the bill for all damages. He showed me the letter the insurance company sent him, and they specifically cited his deliberate and knowing violation of the vehicle's safe towing limit as the reason for canceling his coverage. The insurance company was State Farm.

Insurance is not there to cover you against the consequences of breaking the law. They'rte there to cover you against accidents. And they figure, if you knowingly broke the law, it was no accident…

Big difference between towing a Boston Whaler with a Ranger and going over weight by 200 pounds on a camper.

I'm glad I tow with a one ton so I don't have to listen to all the crap I heard when I had my Grand Cherokee.

VTSmitty 10-24-2017 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2025187)
but just asking: can small excess be safely managed by careful operation? Thanks.

Probably yes, but are you sure you want to? You may be safe, but you'll constantly be constrained: crossing the Continental Divide, accelerating away from some truck's bad merge, struggling when you should be cruising comfortably. There are lots of situations where you can operate at the margins, but when it comes to towing most will prefer a good margin between need and capability. There are plenty of risks that can't be managed well even with proper planning, why add another one if you don't really need to?

Dan

halfloaf 10-24-2017 07:02 PM

The other issue is you seem to be thinking that the tow limit on your vehicle has a margin of safety low, when in reality it seems to be that it has a margin of sales advertising high. At some point there may be a crackdown on artificially inflated towing capacity numbers. Until then, the likely falsely high numbers is one reason one argument is not to go over 80% of the vehicle's tow rating. These are the points that I find compelling. You will surely hear an argument for towing anything you want to soon enough. These are not points I personally find compelling. :-)

Protagonist 10-24-2017 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2025775)
Big difference between towing a Boston Whaler with a Ranger and going over weight by 200 pounds on a camper.

Yes, it is a big difference. But the point is, your insurance company is NOT your friend. They are in business to make money, and payouts don't make money for them. So giving them a reason to leave you hanging by knowingly exceeding towing weight limits is not a risk worth taking.

DreamStreamr 10-24-2017 07:25 PM

Debbie's brother summed it up really well for us when we last shopped a truck. He said it's not so much how much your truck can pull as it is how much your truck will stop. Yeah I know the trailer has it's own brakes, but we're talking about when things kinda go south on you. If things never went wrong we wouldn't need seatbelts and fire extinguishers, right?

We bought a little bigger (2500) truck. 202,000 miles later (over 140,000 towing miles on this setup so far), we don't mind at all it still outweighs the Airstream.

uncle_bob 10-24-2017 07:28 PM

Hi

Equally an issue: Towing right at the limit on a vehicle is rarely a comfortable thing. Do you *really* want to be exhausted after an hour of driving? How easy / hard it is depends on a wide range of things. Only one of those things is the weight limit. It's not going to be an "every time" sort of thing. It might be a "until I get through the next five days" sort of thing. Roads, winds, and a lot of other things all contribute.

Bob

Andrew T 10-24-2017 07:55 PM

Hi CV. Tow ratings often have very little to do with a vehicles towing ability. Some vehicles with high ratings are quite unstable others with little or no rating can be excellent. Detailed examination of a vehicles specifications will give you a better indication of towing ability.

Since 1999 we have set up hundreds of Highlanders, Lexus’s and other Toyota vehicles on the same chassis. The Highlander is easily capable of towing a 22’ Sport anywhere you want to travel. Properly setup it will handle an evasive maneuver or panic stop better than most vehicles with higher tow ratings.

Bgibbs 10-24-2017 09:09 PM

I notice that you live in CO. This makes what you want to do even more ridiculous. I don't care what anybody says about being able to set up your overloaded vehicle to safely tow. "Size matters!" If you can't get the proper tow vehicle, forget about the trailer.

CV-8 10-24-2017 11:41 PM

I never intended to exceed tow limits. I simply asked the question to see where it goes among knowledgable Airstream owners. Questions suggesting overload situations does not imply wanting to be reckless. No accidents in 50 years, one and only moving violation in 1971, I am probably not the riskiest road warrior out there. Answers to my question were very beneficial, and I appreciate the added knowledge gained. Thank you all.

J. Morgan 10-25-2017 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 2026071)
Hi CV. Tow ratings often have very little to do with a vehicles towing ability. Some vehicles with high ratings are quite unstable others with little or no rating can be excellent. Detailed examination of a vehicles specifications will give you a better indication of towing ability.

Since 1999 we have set up hundreds of Highlanders, Lexus’s and other Toyota vehicles on the same chassis. The Highlander is easily capable of towing a 22’ Sport anywhere you want to travel. Properly setup it will handle an evasive maneuver or panic stop better than most vehicles with higher tow ratings.



The thing is, there are some people who would never admit that even if they saw the proof with their own eyes.

Towing dynamic is not exactly what a lot of people think it is.

Countryboy59 10-25-2017 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protagonist (Post 2026055)
Yes, it is a big difference. But the point is, your insurance company is NOT your friend. They are in business to make money, and payouts don't make money for them. So giving them a reason to leave you hanging by knowingly exceeding towing weight limits is not a risk worth taking.

Straw man arguments and insurance gloom-and-doom aside, the OP is talking about towing a 22 with a Highlander. Let's be real; it's probably fine if he has good judgement and driving ability.

The way people run to their insurance for every bump and scrape makes me wonder why insurance is as cheap (?) as it is. I wouldn't insure most people based on just what I see on the road everyday, CAT scale tickets aside.

slowmover 10-25-2017 04:22 AM

Playing the numbers game won't get you a good TV. One of the above replies is from a man at a firm that has set up more than 10,000 towing rigs. He (they) systematized what the rest of us had to learn as we went, starting more than fifty years ago.

The Internet myths are amazing. I've run pickups in commercial service where the gross combined weight "rating" what the the trailers we hooked up weighed, and ran hotshot with in the oilfield. It was never a concern so long as tires, axle and wheel ratings were respected. Which are legal limits. In accidents where others had the problem insurance coverage wasn't ever a concern. And never denied. It was no secret how things were. Some of this crap spread around is ridiculous. Literally no idea of what they're talking about.

Get Mr Thomsons specific advice on how to set the hitch rigging for your trailer and tow vehicle.

The vehicle lash-up is what matters, if the vehicle is otherwise suitable. Its' "ratings" are a problem of second or third order for success.They've no legal bearing. Other factors mean more.

These aren't hard trailers to tow. The opposite in fact. Be sure to ask these Cassandras how many years and miles using cars. For which these trailers were designed. Or the certified scale tickets of when they set up their hitch rigging. You'll find neither. What you'll find are those who haven't a good set of clues of how the thing is supposed to feel, or the differences in operating versus their "experience" of running the road, solo (they've either none in towing or poor experience from which to make comparisons, much less make conclusions. They don't even know how to compare trailers, just for starters).

I wouldn't take advice from those who "judgment" finds that dead steering, lousy handling and worse braking is the better way.

Now, a certified, three-segment scale is useful. One can start today with the CAT Scale phone app and weigh the proposed TV with driver only, max fuel, and gear kept permanently aboard until it is sold. This is a TARE weight, that represents lightest condition from hereon. Record the axle/tire/wheel limits (door sticker) against those scaled values. This is what one works with: the WD hitch applies force we measure as weight across all axles of TV and TT. (And it isn't "payload").

The next time around is in adjusting the hitch rigging with the TT. One roughs it in at home using fender measurements via Mr Thomsons method (see website on setting torsion bars). "Equal squat". Then three passes across the Cat Scale as detailed elsewhere. An analysis of those three scale tickets will give all the information necessary. This is where "weight" is useful.

As with TV tire pressure (according to load), the scale allows one to see the results in numerical values that can be checked cross-continent or next year, used as a baseline.

There is a range of adjustment with both. The high and the low. This allows one to check different settings for best road manners.

Acquiring those ranges, is the thing. Tested. And within them, small changes REALLY matter. (This is what the deaf & dumb never learn; they can't even get the trailer level according to what is seen on the road. Or Thomsons comment about how badly done is the hitch rigging seen at rallies).

There are plenty of follow-on threads to where -- not having done this preparatory work -- the operator has all sorts of questions about ride or handling wind gusts and the rest. That should have been addressed at the beginning. To sort the wheat from the chaff. To aid determining whether or not a problem even exists in the first place.

The short answer to your question is, no, you're unlikely to have a problem based solely on extra weight. To validate that is the reason to use the tools and analysis of weight-distribution (avoiding guesstimates altogether; as do professionals) to optimize the performance of this combination vehicle.

The second part is in becoming comfortable driving it. Outside the experience of most, it seems, prior to this. One is now part of the "slow" traffic not just due to slower acceleration than today's cars, but because respect of braking distance (no different than solo when set up properly AND TESTED) means more, thus hard emphasis on vehicle spacing in all situations.

This would be: New Habits for Bad Drivers. (Being surrounded by others out on the Interstate is evidence of operator failure, as learning to back off before the idiots form a pack around one is a difference between men and boys).

How to plan a day on the road. What's reasonable, and why.

Being slower on an ascent is meaningless (except for those with panties twisted in a new experience). The downgrade matters. Tactics there are worth your time in reading. How to downshift the transmission, and when to use brakes. Etc. Reading you can do now. (Operators manual, and threads hereabouts).

How to handle trailer sway, is another.

These are what matter. Not a few hundred pounds, as you've surmised.

Take up Mr Thomsons advice. Read on his website, his posts here, and articles published elsewhere. The armchair commandos here and on other RV forums haven't been asked to consult on towing by SAE or Airstream itself.

Be painstaking at this stage. Read. Get that TARE weight. Decide on trailer tires (more fun threads), decide if trailer antilock disc brakes are a worthwhile upgrade; and same for a VPP type hitch.

And, nearly every tow vehicle will benefit by upgraded or new shock absorbers. Ask Andy about TV tire choice if yours are not so far from replacement.

So, in short, focus on road performance issues until they are settled (hitch set up plus testing as above). All the problems with the trailer itself (learning how to use it) become more important to most than these issues. But these are the ones that matter.

An uneventful day is the best day, in these terms. All the rest can be dealt with in time. Issues concerning road performance leave one no time at all when they matter.

.

xrvr 10-25-2017 05:35 AM

Vehicle lashup. To show hoiw impirtant this is, i had animproperly setup wd hitch on my one ton, an almost impoissible tow. Took off hitchh and towed with two sway controls on the ball, a much bettert conbo fir a one ton. Yes lashup is very impirtant as slow says. Get anexpert to help set up your rig. An improperly set up wd hitch can be dangerous thats why the canadian dealers advuce ius so impoirtant. Tried wd with little weight transfer and it was comp!metely different when set up properly even on a one ton.one tons suv, cars all need the lashup done correctly, each combo is unique. Pleade heed what slowmover abd andy tell you. Sorry for the misspellings.

J. Morgan 10-25-2017 06:25 AM

I kinda don’t like how some folks are kinda hostile toward any post that has to do with a TV that doesn’t meet their criteria.

There is often more than one way to skin a cat, and some of the ways a tow vehicle cat is skinned has more to do with selection of components and finesse and fine tuning than the sheer mass of a large and dedicated tow vehicle.

I think..... maybe,,, as we are entering the era of $100,000 pickup trucks, different towing solutions should be viewed with a more open mind and less off the cuff hostility. Just my opinion.

Troutboy 10-25-2017 07:36 AM

Tow Limits
 
Lots of good advice here on tow capacity and considerations.

One question I would ask is what is the PAYLOAD of that vehicle. How much total weight can you carry in the TV.

I think you would be extremely limited in passenger and cargo to tow a trailer that big.

I have a 23D, max loaded weight is 6000 lb. I tow with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Jeep has max tow capacity of 7200 lbs. so fine right? For tow and stop yes.

The payload is only 1100 pounds. The AS takes up 600 pounds due to tongue weight of the trailer, leaving me 500 pounds for passengers and gear.

I can barely get me, my wife And two small kids and dog in and be within the payload. It borderline. Nothing else can be carried in the Jeep.

The Jeep tows just fine, even in Rocky Mountains. But I can’t carry anything and if more people come (my older Daughter) we take another additional vehicle.

So make sure you also research payload. I see a larger truck in our future for these reasons.

Plus, in the mountains, the Jeep engine works hard, revs at 4000-5000 rpms most of the time. Well within safe limit, but working overtime.

uncle_bob 10-25-2017 11:11 AM

Hi

Another axis to all this: How open are you to relatively simple mods on a TV (any TV, including a big truck) ? To some, "stock" is the only configuration that they will ever consider. Others seem to start thinking about new shocks before the first tank of gas is used up .... :)

When properly done (and that is a *big* qualifier) relatively straightforward changes can have a major impact on how a TV / TT combo functions. Equally, doing the wrong change can be a problem. You don't want me randomly fiddling with the innards of your TV :). You want a pro who's done it before.

Bob

richw46 10-25-2017 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026147)
I never intended to exceed tow limits. I simply asked the question to see where it goes among knowledgable Airstream owners. Questions suggesting overload situations does not imply wanting to be reckless. No accidents in 50 years, one and only moving violation in 1971, I am probably not the riskiest road warrior out there. Answers to my question were very beneficial, and I appreciate the added knowledge gained. Thank you all.

Hello, CV-8, welcome to the forums and greetings from central Kentucky. :wally:

You don't mention what year your Highlander is, but I found a Toyota link for the 2017, detailed specification PDF
http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.c...specs.download

This PDF shows the maximum tongue weight as 500 lbs. and towing capacity at 5,000. My 2004 4Runner spec for towing is 7,000 lbs., BUT, the specification also says the maximum trailer weight is 5,710, a 1,290 lb. difference. You need to find that specification for your Highlander. Check with your dealer and don't settle for the maximum towing capacity spec.

Whatever your Airstream's weight is, adding water, having full holding tanks and LP tanks is going to add to that maximum weight. With my 23' AS I have lots of wiggle room, but I wouldn't want to be right up against my limits. it's better to have a relaxed drive than a white-knuckled one. :D

Adventure.AS 10-25-2017 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2026309)
...
This PDF shows the maximum tongue weight as 500 lbs. and towing capacity at 5,000. ...

Hey Rich, you brought up a good point. The low tow specifications of most SUV tow vehicles are because the manufacturer engineered a poor hitch receiver, in you example capable of a tongue weight of only500 lbs.

It logically follows that when the manufacturer uses 500 lbs as the North American minimum of 10% of the trailer weight then the trailer will be spec'd for only 5,000 lbs, regardless of how much better the suspension, handling and drive train of many SUVs are for towing.

Thus the weak link, from an capacity standpoint, is the poorly designed receiver, especially it's ability to take the torque required to transfer some of the hitch weight to the front axle.

If you go to an experienced and qualified hitch builder you can easily upgrade from your stock Class III to a Class IV receiver for a lot less money than it will take to upgrade to a huge pickup truck.

OTRA15 10-26-2017 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2026299)
. . .
. . . You want a pro who's done it before.

Bob

. . . and who can guarantee in writing that the tow vehicle’s original manufacturer’s warranty will not be affected by the hitch modifications.

:wally:

slowmover 10-26-2017 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2026576)
. . . and who can guarantee in writing that the tow vehicle’s original manufacturer’s warranty will not be affected by the hitch modifications.

:wally:

Moss-Magnuson, 1971.

As before, OP, those lacking in experience aren't your guide. Going from a Class III to IV with some additional bracing is less of a strain on the TV.

Perspective. A for-instance: it's not trailer weight. It's trailer shape. We can quickly build a 4000-lbs trailer that no pickup of any size can "tow". (Gigantic frontal area).

FWIW, commercial users are far harder than ANY vacationer on a vehicle. Farmers, ranchers, contractors, fleets . . . they'd laugh at any dealer giving them crap like that. Because the competitor down the street won't. A vehicle central to ones income means a thoroughly different relationship between all parties.

Were one to move to carrying 1,200-lbs of tools and gear for business (as I've done the past decade and more) and then load a one ton higher than "capacity" in order to get the TT down the road, then that vehicle choice has become suitable. Not otherwise. Not based on advertising and "ratings" to push pickup sales.

My 35' TT weighs not much more than the ones used by my parents and grandparents. And, oh, horrors, they "exceeded" the mythical ratings. Using cars set up for best WD. Custom-made hitch receivers and welded-up custom hitches -- versus the slop or poor design of those today (and they are) -- caused [?] those tow vehicles to have been sold short of 200k miles forty or fifty years ago. US, Canada, Mexico. With or without the national Interstate. Harder conditions and, in general, lacking the reliability of today's potential TVs.

The "best" TV is one that is inherently stable and genuinely (not wishfully) suits solo duty. 60% or more of miles. That is key to all this. What class, versus brand or model. Then, those, as there are differences that matter. Specification details. And it can also tow the TT. Which concept is a "difficulty" for those without experience.

Mr Thomsons many posts and some threads hereabouts (just read all his AIR posts and/or those threads from their beginnings); his articles in RVLife magazine; or that posted at his website, will give some greater perspective.

"Safety" equates to stability (which isn't such a loaded term; easier to demonstrate). Accidents aren't caused by trailer weight, per se, but by operator error. Specifically, overcorrection at the wheel by the operator when trailer sway in adverse winds have caused sway ("snaking" amplified; oscillation).

It's over in a moment.

To backtrack from there is how to classify componentry best suited.

.

.

ROBERT CROSS 10-26-2017 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2026395)
Hey Rich, you brought up a good point. The low tow specifications of most SUV tow vehicles are because the manufacturer engineered a poor hitch receiver, in you example capable of a tongue weight of only500 lbs.

It logically follows that when the manufacturer uses 500 lbs as the North American minimum of 10% of the trailer weight then the trailer will be spec'd for only 5,000 lbs, regardless of how much better the suspension, handling and drive train of many SUVs are for towing.

Thus the weak link, from an capacity standpoint, is the poorly designed receiver, especially it's ability to take the torque required to transfer some of the hitch weight to the front axle.

If you go to an experienced and qualified hitch builder you can easily upgrade from your stock Class III to a Class IV receiver for a lot less money than it will take to upgrade to a huge pickup truck.

^
X2

This UPGRADE, was less than $450, incl my own labor. ;)

Bob
:flowers:

J. Morgan 10-26-2017 09:06 AM

What if a lot of younger new Airstream owners like the idea of an Airstream, but don’t like the idea of a huge dedicated tow vehicle sitting in their driveway or parking lot?

Is their no technology that would help them have their cake and eat it too? :)

Adventure.AS 10-26-2017 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026631)
What if a lot of younger new Airstream owners like the idea of an Airstream, but don’t like the idea of a huge dedicated tow vehicle sitting in their driveway or parking lot?

Is their no technology that would help them have their cake and eat it too? :)

Custom built hitch receiver, designed and installed by an expert would likely be around $800.

uncle_bob 10-26-2017 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026631)
What if a lot of younger new Airstream owners like the idea of an Airstream, but don’t like the idea of a huge dedicated tow vehicle sitting in their driveway or parking lot?

Is their no technology that would help them have their cake and eat it too? :)

Hi

You can modify just about any aspect of a vehicle. Want to go faster? We can drop in a bigger engine. Want to be 1/4" off the ground, we can do that. Need big orange flames shooting out the tail pipe ... ditto. Need better towing capability ... can do.

For most people all of this exists on a different planet. If you happen to live here or there, a lot of it shows up at a car show down the street 13 times a year :)

The issue is that it's not just a "put this kit on any vehicle and you are done" kind of thing. It's not a bunch of crazy stuff, but you need to put on the *right* stuff for this or that vehicle / TT. Knowing what that stuff is takes a bit of trial and error. Much better to let somebody else do the experiments and then go to them for the upgrades that actually apply in your case.

Bob

J. Morgan 10-26-2017 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2026670)
Hi



You can modify just about any aspect of a vehicle. Want to go faster? We can drop in a bigger engine. Want to be 1/4" off the ground, we can do that. Need big orange flames shooting out the tail pipe ... ditto. Need better towing capability ... can do.



For most people all of this exists on a different planet. If you happen to live here or there, a lot of it shows up at a car show down the street 13 times a year :)



The issue is that it's not just a "put this kit on any vehicle and you are done" kind of thing. It's not a bunch of crazy stuff, but you need to put on the *right* stuff for this or that vehicle / TT. Knowing what that stuff is takes a bit of trial and error. Much better to let somebody else do the experiments and then go to them for the upgrades that actually apply in your case.



Bob



For example, like the people at Can-Am in Ontario, Canada?

journeydog 10-26-2017 12:06 PM

Real Weight Matters
 
Watch out for this spec:

From AS specs: Unit Base Weight (with LP & Batteries) = 'X' pounds

Note that the weight ONLY includes the weight of the batteries and LP.

THIS IS NOT THE TOTAL WEIGHT OF A 'TRAVELING' TRAILER!

One should add "incidentals" such as water @ about 8#/gallon, (depends on how much water is in your tank - did the black and gray tanks get emptied?), and all the gear that you may have added - clothing, shoes, food, cables, etc., etc.

I typically add about 2,000# to the 'spec' weight - but, the best number is found at a truck-stop scale when you're all loaded up and ready to go.

richw46 10-26-2017 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2026395)
Hey Rich, you brought up a good point. The low tow specifications of most SUV tow vehicles are because the manufacturer engineered a poor hitch receiver, in you example capable of a tongue weight of only500 lbs.

It logically follows that when the manufacturer uses 500 lbs as the North American minimum of 10% of the trailer weight then the trailer will be spec'd for only 5,000 lbs, regardless of how much better the suspension, handling and drive train of many SUVs are for towing.

Thus the weak link, from an capacity standpoint, is the poorly designed receiver, especially it's ability to take the torque required to transfer some of the hitch weight to the front axle.

If you go to an experienced and qualified hitch builder you can easily upgrade from your stock Class III to a Class IV receiver for a lot less money than it will take to upgrade to a huge pickup truck.

According to Draw-Tite, a class III hitch can be either weight carrying or weight distribution, depending on the vehicle and hitch type.
http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/lear...towing-classes
"Class III hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 6000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 600 lbs."

Class III hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 10,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1000 lbs.

I have always assumed that a vehicle's towing and tongue capacities were a combination of the vehicle's capability and hitch design. Whether you use a class III or class IV, a Corolla is not going to tow a 35' AS. :flowers:

For the OP, a Highlander has a 5,000 lb. max towing capacity. A class III WC hitch can apparently support 6,000 lbs., so there is some level of safety there. However, will the axles, drive train, brakes, etc. support 6,000 lbs. without doing some damage?

To my thinking, no matter how big or well built the hitch receiver is, the capability of the vehicle, stated by the manufacturer in its specifications, should be the guiding principle.:)

Adventure.AS 10-26-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2026721)
...
To my thinking, no matter how big or well built the hitch receiver is, the capability of the vehicle, stated by the manufacturer in its specifications, should be the guiding principle.:)

They base the tow rating on the hitch receiver capability, not the capability of the vehicle. IMHO if the receiver is upgraded and you don't go over your axle or tow vehicle GWVR then you are good to go.

OTRA15 10-26-2017 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2026759)
They base the tow rating on the hitch receiver capability, not the capability of the vehicle. IMHO if the receiver is upgraded and you don't go over your axle or tow vehicle GWVR then you are good to go.

If the new custom hitch does not void the tow vehicle's mfg. warranty, or result in the insurance not covering any resulting damage in the event of an accident.

:blink:

uncle_bob 10-26-2017 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026680)
For example, like the people at Can-Am in Ontario, Canada?

Hi

They certainly are one that is worth considering. As far as I know there's nobody any better. If I get worked up enough about this stuff, that's where I would go. That could just be my limited view of the world. :) There aren't a lot of specialists around that really get into this stuff.

My main point is that Bob down at the local "Super Truck Upgrade Store" may not be the perfect guy for doing this with. :) He likely can order in this or that part. Knowing what the *right* part is for a specific vehicle / trailer combo ..... maybe not so much. Getting it all tuned up right .... nope.

Bob

Philip Jones 10-26-2017 05:41 PM

Only one person posting on this thread has real-world personal experience with thousands of actual setups. That doesn't mean others' opinions are unimportant, but you may want to consider this personal experience accordingly.

jcl 10-26-2017 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2026721)
...I have always assumed that a vehicle's towing and tongue capacities were a combination of the vehicle's capability and hitch design. Whether you use a class III or class IV, a Corolla is not going to tow a 35' AS. :flowers:

For the OP, a Highlander has a 5,000 lb. max towing capacity. A class III WC hitch can apparently support 6,000 lbs., so there is some level of safety there. However, will the axles, drive train, brakes, etc. support 6,000 lbs. without doing some damage?

To my thinking, no matter how big or well built the hitch receiver is, the capability of the vehicle, stated by the manufacturer in its specifications, should be the guiding principle.:)

The 6000 lb Class III hitch referenced is a Draw-tite Class 3 product, not Toyota's. A hitch can be rated up to that, but not every one is.

In terms of tongue weight, what matters are that the receiver is strong enough, and then you move to axle and tire weight limits. It doesn't help to use a Corolla to support your point, unless that Corolla has sufficient axle and tire capacity for the likely tongue weight.

My (BMW) SUV didn't come with a tow rating. The BMW marketing company in the US sold a hitch kit through their dealers (there was no factory option). That hitch had a 6000 lb tow rating. Other BMW marketing companies in other countries sold hitches with higher ratings, for the same vehicle, even though they were all owned by the same manufacturer. I was limited by that hitch rating if I chose to follow it, but the vehicle wasn't.

If one doesn't know the true vehicle capacity, and suspects that the vehicle may be able to tow more with an appropriate receiver (perhaps because similar models from that manufacturer have higher ratings, with the same powertrain) then relying on experts such as Can-Am would be an appropriate course of action IMO.

As to issues with the vehicle warranty, I wouldn't expect the vehicle manufacturer to warrant a hitch they didn't provide. I would look to the hitch manufacturer for that warranty. At the same time, if that aftermarket receiver was considered by the vehicle manufacturer to have caused a failure, I would ask them to demonstrate it. They don't get to void a warranty because they don't like something. The warranty impact I did run in to more than once was when an aftermarket item like a receiver blocked service access to another component that was being repaired under warranty. In that case there was sometimes a charge for R&R of the aftermarket device to access the component. Using bolted receivers instead of welded ones is a prudent mitigation there.

Countryboy59 10-26-2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2026779)
If the new custom hitch does not void the tow vehicle's mfg. warranty, or result in the insurance not covering any resulting damage in the event of an accident.

:blink:

Plenty of modified vehicles on the road.

J. Morgan 10-26-2017 07:54 PM

If a tow vehicle tows a trailer heavier than its “rated towing capacity” will it tear in half?

Andrew T 10-26-2017 08:31 PM

Hi Trout Boy

I would not be too paranoid about the payload on your Grand Cherokee it will easily handle some additional people and cargo as long as you are connected properly.

The 1100 pound payload is almost all on the back axle as Jeep does not think you will be able to load weight to the front suspension. (There are no seats or Cargo areas at the front.) However with a weight distribution hitch you can move weight to the front axle. With weight distribution you can move about 180 pounds to the front wheels of the Jeep, this will send 150 pounds to the trailer axles leaving only 270 pounds for the rear axle to carry still leaving you about 700 pounds for additional cargo without overloading axle capacities. If you did slightly overload the rear axle of the Jeep I would not be too concerned as the Durango which has an identical chassis but 3 rows of seats is rated to carry a few hundred pounds more.

Load it up with all you really want to carry and take it to a scale, I think you'll find your fine.

Andy

slowmover 10-26-2017 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2026779)
If the new custom hitch does not void the tow vehicle's mfg. warranty, or result in the insurance not covering any resulting damage in the event of an accident.

:blink:

Did you change tire brand last time? Have you ever used other than dealer-sourced parts for a brake job? What about the windshield wipers?

You've no experience, nor examples, to "prove" your assertion, do you?

Not even understanding that the insurance company has assumed liability.

Wrecks with commercial users happen. Liability limits far higher. Vehicles modified by owners in excess of what is contemplated here. Insurance isn't a problem.

.

KK4YZ 10-26-2017 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2026160)
Straw man arguments and insurance gloom-and-doom aside, the OP is talking about towing a 22 with a Highlander. Let's be real; it's probably fine if he has good judgement and driving ability.

The way people run to their insurance for every bump and scrape makes me wonder why insurance is as cheap (?) as it is. I wouldn't insure most people based on just what I see on the road everyday, CAT scale tickets aside.

Protagonist’s story wasn’t straw man. It was real. We can all spin long yarns about how you can tow an AS with a Smart Car, but in the end the OP is the only one that has to live with his decision. However you might take issue with the ratings, they’re there for a reason. Give yourself some margin and don’t worry.

KK4YZ 10-26-2017 10:21 PM

Here we go again
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 2026865)
Did you change tire brand last time? Have you ever used other than dealer-sourced parts for a brake job? What about the windshield wipers?

You've no experience, nor examples, to "prove" your assertion, do you?

Not even understanding that the insurance company has assumed liability.

Wrecks with commercial users happen. Liability limits far higher. Vehicles modified by owners in excess of what is contemplated here. Insurance isn't a problem.

.

SloMo is on the attack again. Kinda reminds me of a line from Blazing Saddles.... “Who can argue with that? Why that’s genuine frontier jibberish...”

Troutboy 10-26-2017 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 2026861)
Hi Trout Boy

I would not be too paranoid about the payload on your Grand Cherokee it will easily handle some additional people and cargo as long as you are connected properly.

The 1100 pound payload is almost all on the back axle as Jeep does not think you will be able to load weight to the front suspension. (There are no seats or Cargo areas at the front.) However with a weight distribution hitch you can move weight to the front axle. With weight distribution you can move about 180 pounds to the front wheels of the Jeep, this will send 150 pounds to the trailer axles leaving only 270 pounds for the rear axle to carry still leaving you about 700 pounds for additional cargo without overloading axle capacities. If you did slightly overload the rear axle of the Jeep I would not be too concerned as the Durango which has an identical chassis but 3 rows of seats is rated to carry a few hundred pounds more.

Load it up with all you really want to carry and take it to a scale, I think you'll find your fine.

Andy



Thanks for the info, this makes me feel better! I have an equalizer with, I’ll take her to the scale!

Andrew T 10-27-2017 04:04 AM

If you like send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send you a file on how to measure your setup. If your Jeep has air suspension it is a little trickier to fine tune.

Countryboy59 10-27-2017 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2026882)
Protagonist’s story wasn’t straw man. It was real. We can all spin long yarns about how you can tow an AS with a Smart Car, but in the end the OP is the only one that has to live with his decision. However you might take issue with the ratings, they’re there for a reason. Give yourself some margin and don’t worry.

The OP was asking about towing a 22 with a Highlander. Not my choice but fact is he's within the limits for that. All the rest of the hyperbole in this thread is just that. so is the Airstream/Smart Car scenario.

The OP probably should get a real truck but let's not go off the deep end. It's a 22'.

uncle_bob 10-27-2017 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026848)
If a tow vehicle tows a trailer heavier than its “rated towing capacity” will it tear in half?

Hi

No it likely will not tear in half as you exit the parking lot :)

The question really is "what's the weak link in the chain". We focus a lot on axles. There are a bunch of parts that make up a vehicle. The way the receiver mounts into the chassis *might* be the weak link. Without some experimentation on a specific vehicle, it's going to be hard to know. If axles were the only weak spot in any vehicle design, we'd all just buy a Civic. Then swap the axles and tow 30,000 LB :)

Yes, I'm picking a bit on axles. :) We do focus occasionally on a few other components. I've been known to complain about shocks. I'm also not suggesting axles or their ratings are unimportant.

Bob

Andrew T 10-27-2017 08:10 AM

We do strengthen the receivers, add transmission coolers when needed and sometimes refine tire sizes but otherwise the several hundred of these Toyota platforms we have set up over the last 18 years are stock.

The body structure stays tighter than any body on frame vehicle I can think of. Driveline chassis component problems have been pretty much nil, very little other than normal maintenance.

If there is a weak link we have not found it yet.

Andy

CV-8 10-27-2017 08:29 AM

The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.

For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 08:51 AM

Don’t give up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.

For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.

I’m glad you’re not giving up. Isn’t the 19’ AS well below the 5K lbs that’s been discussed? From the discussion on this thread one can get the idea that setting up a tow vehicle/TT combo is incredibly complex. It is not. Set yourself up with a helpful dealer, like the poster from Ontario and get your margin of safety that way. Also, you’re an engineer. Use your judgement as to what makes sense.

These Airstreams have a low CG and are aerodynamic. They tow like a dream compared to box trailers.

Good luck to you.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 09:01 AM

By the way
 
The 19’ Flying Cloud has a base weight of 3850lbs and a gvwr of 4500 lbs. so what’s wrong with the highlander? I’d say nothing.
As far as the fridge is concerned there are all kinds of things you can do before travel: cool it down the nite before and put in ice. It will stay cool while you travel. Some folks run the fridge on gas while traveling and turn it off while refueling.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.



So, I'm plodding ahead with the solution for us, even though right now she just wants to throw the whole thing over to Class-A busses, which would surely break our bank and start a new discussion in some other talk chat.



For the past 9 years we have had a Pleasure-Way on an E-350 platform. It keeps up with traffic, parks anywhere, no tow needed. But, it's small, my wife and I and the dogs bump into each other, the dog dish always gets kicked, the mattress is too thin, the shower is too tight to use, and she's at wit's end. Now she worries that a trailer adds stress rocking and rolling being behind us, worries about refrigeration without a six volt power option, worries about all the discussion about weight and distribution, traveling with partial tank fills, using a small portable generator just to microwave a cup of coffee at a rest stop, and of course the prices of Airstreams. So, these are a few of our complications, but in Colorado, our travel season is over, and we have all winter to think about it all. Thanks all for the complex discussions. Life would be dull without challenges like these. In an impoverished world, think about the level at which these problems vex us. For most, they are in the stratosphere. But, after all, I love Airstreams, and I'm not giving up.



Thats a problem with public specialty forums. There are sometimes too many people who are too eager to tell everyone what wont work and what will go wrong unless it is done exactly like this or exactly like they solved their problem......

That is a part of human nature.

Safety is important, solutions are important, but usually there is more than a single path to the same destination.

There is no doubt in my mind that the combination you propose, setup properly, can be as safe and as stable as any Airstream combination on the road.

FWIW, I have done about everything “wrong” on my Airstream and have been having a great and safe time being wrong for about four years now. :)

Elizabeth, me, and our pups LOVE the Airstream experience spending about half a year living out of our trailer. It would have been a shame if the naysayers would have talked me down.... :)

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 09:11 AM

Tow Limits
 
Your solutions are simple.

A. Have Andrew at CanAm setup your combination.

Or.

B. Buy a ProPride from Sean

By doing so you will have a more stable platform than many Airstreamers who tow with an F350. :)

Both of these professionals who do things to make towing your Airstream a lot safer tend to catch a lot of crap on AirForums. Go figure.

Rfriebele 10-27-2017 11:07 AM

Wow...i haven't read all the responses here but part way through it hit me like a brick just as I'm sure most everyone on this forum will nod in the affirmative just how many are out there, towing RVs in compromised fashion. I personally had little info on how important this is when I went shopping for our AS and sadly, our dealer was more interested in selling us a trailer than educating us on the towing aspects. What helped in our favor was that we picked out our trailer first, then went to buy a truck and asked the truck dealer to show us what we needed to tow it with. The first truck dealer made it kinda obvious they too were more concerned with selling us a truck not looking confident in what it would tow so we went to another who did us right. This is a critical part of the RV buying process that seems to be solely on the customer and we all know how these days, the customer is typically considered an uninformed idiot by most other manufacturers specifically to avoid liability. Even after our experience, I didn't know the dirty details till joining this forum. I'm surprised there haven't been more stories of disaster and lawsuits thinking about the recent rise in RV purchases...
Wow.

Countryboy59 10-27-2017 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2026984)
Your solutions are simple.

A. Have Andrew at CanAm setup your combination.

Or.

B. Buy a ProPride from Sean

By doing so you will have a more stable platform than many Airstreamers who tow with an F350. :)

Both of these professionals who do things to make towing your Airstream a lot safer tend to catch a lot of crap on AirForums. Go figure.

Or you could take your Hensley, your trailer, and your F350 to Andy and get the best of both worlds!

xrvr 10-27-2017 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 2026968)
We do strengthen the receivers, add transmission coolers when needed and sometimes refine tire sizes but otherwise the several hundred of these Toyota platforms we have set up over the last 18 years are stock.

The body structure stays tighter than any body on frame vehicle I can think of. Driveline chassis component problems have been pretty much nil, very little other than normal maintenance.

If there is a weak link we have not found it yet.

Andy

As i have learned, the weak link is often the driver and his misconceptions.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 11:31 AM

Shoulda looked at the numbers first
 
CV-8:
I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.
The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.
Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.

Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show😳

Jim

richw46 10-27-2017 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2027043)
CV-8:
I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.
The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.
Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.

Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show😳

Jim

The tongue weight is more of a problem than the capacity. Pull down the current specs on the 19', 20' and 22' FC at Airstream. The lowest is 550 for the 19', which is 50 lbs. over the 2017 Highlander's spec.
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...ers-Manual.pdf

CV-8 (OP) wants the 20'. That has a 'dry' hitch weight of 631 lbs., 131 over his maximum. It's tight, but with the proper setup on a good WDH I think he can manage. He'll have to watch his payload in both the AS and the TV and keep his speed down.

I have ~1,000 lb. towing wiggle room on my 4Runner but the tongue weight is very close. AS says my tongue weight is only 600 lbs. but using a good scale I show it's 730 lbs. with just minor stuff in the nose and 1/2 bottle of propane. With the 19' FC being 550 lbs. tongue, I'd suspect it's probably closer to 650. He's no worse off going with the 20'.:flowers:

richw46 10-27-2017 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2026759)
They base the tow rating on the hitch receiver capability, not the capability of the vehicle. IMHO if the receiver is upgraded and you don't go over your axle or tow vehicle GWVR then you are good to go.

Based on that thinking then, you could put a class 4 hitch on a Tacoma and pull a 35' AS. Is that what you're saying? :flowers:

I have to disagree with that. The hitch rating has to meet or exceed the vehicle's spec, but you have to go by the manufacturer's towing specs to safely tow anything. You have to be able to stop, turn and control the vehicle while towing. Other than providing a good connection to the TV, reducing sway, the receiver won't help stop, turn or otherwise control the trailer.

richw46 10-27-2017 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2026807)
The 6000 lb Class III hitch referenced is a Draw-tite Class 3 product, not Toyota's. A hitch can be rated up to that, but not every one is.

In terms of tongue weight, what matters are that the receiver is strong enough, and then you move to axle and tire weight limits. It doesn't help to use a Corolla to support your point, unless that Corolla has sufficient axle and tire capacity for the likely tongue weight.

I don't know what hitch brand is used by Toyota, it will vary according to the current purchasing requirements. I do know that whatever Toyota specs the vehicle's towing capacity to be, the hitch will exceed that amount. Vehicle manufacturers are very secretive about their OEM suppliers. I was using Draw-Tite as an example because they are a large manufacturer of hitches and they provided the detail I was looking for.

As an example of what Toyota provides, on my '04 4Runner the towing and hitch capacities are 7,000 and 700. The hitch spec is 7,300 and 730 for WC and 7,300 and 1,095 for WD. Personally, I wouldn't modify my SUV when it was new to tow something larger than what Toyota said was safe, but that's me.:)

Yes, the Corolla is hyperbole, to make a point. You just can't upgrade a receiver and expect the TV to be 'ready to go'. Controlling a trailer is part of the maximum spec. Stopping a trailer won't get better because of an improved receiver.

In the case of the OP, he is asking about his current 2017 vehicle's specs and the ability to pull a 20' AS. There have been several suggestions to take it somewhere and modify the receiver. I don't think that's what the OP was asking about. I understood him to be asking about what he could safely pull with his new Highlander, not how it could be modified to carry something above the manufacturer's specs. But I've been wrong before. Maybe he is considering a structural modification. :wally:

jcl 10-27-2017 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2027055)
Based on that thinking then, you could put a class 4 hitch on a Tacoma and pull a 35' AS. Is that what you're saying? :flowers:

If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

SilverHouseDreams 10-27-2017 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. If it cannot pull a 19 foot Airstream safely and easily, then we won't be buying one. The vehicle we committed to is now the boss of our decision. Maybe we have to scrap my dream of pulling an Airstream altogether, but I'm hoping that after all the dust of discussion is over, it can be done. With enjoyment. If it is such a hassle, then we go in another direction. As an engineer with caution, I take input from this forum seriously and with appreciation. There is absolutely nothing about RVing that is simple in whatever direction one goes. All configurations come with the plusses and minuses of the whole industry. There is no best direction for everyone, no end to the list for and against any one of them. It's frustrating and fascinating at the same time.

You are seeing what I found when I first started on this adventure, which I've still only just begun. There are also plenty of users here that will spend many posts convincing you that a 19' or 22FB will never be big enough for you, and that you really must buy a 25' or larger.

We bought our 22FB from a couple that towed it with a Highlander, they towed it around the Pacific NW without any issues. We tow it with a Audi Q5, it was also the vehicle we had already purchased due to a variety of factors (a Highlander was in the running, but some of the Audi features/details won us over)...in our case our Q5 is out of the warranty period and is fully paid off, I don't know what we would replace it with that would actually have measurable improvement other than maybe rated tow capability.

So far on our 2 trips that included mountain passes our little 4-cylinder Q5 has done just fine. Obviously, there are those here that will spend their text convincing me that I will destroy world order by using a 4-cylinder let alone a "cross over" for towing...but its a waste of their time, not mine.

Just my 2-cents and a point of reference, which is likely not worth that much to some.

KK4YZ 10-27-2017 02:31 PM

....and here’s another one
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2027085)
If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

Don’t try to argue with jc, either...it’s no-win. Just pat him on the head and tell him he’s right. It’s better that way.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 02:43 PM

I say that the poster on here who has spent his life building winning trailer tow vehicle combinations got in the best word several posts ago. #JustSayin. :)

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2027043)
CV-8:

I ( and maybe others) should have looked up the #'s first before commenting.

The 22' Sport also has a GVWR of 4500#. Your highlander is rated for 5000#. Yes, you also have to watch payload as others stated, but with you, your wife and pets, I can't imagine you'll have a problem.

Get a good hitch setup, get your AS and have fun.



Now if you really want to be entertained, just ask this group which hitch is best. Then sit back and enjoy the show[emoji15]



Jim



As far as vehicle stability goes, the ProPride and Hensley hitches have no peers.

CV-8 10-27-2017 07:02 PM

Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.

Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.

J. Morgan 10-27-2017 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2027179)
Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.



Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.



The fridge will run on propane while traveling, but even that is controversial on the forum.... :)

richw46 10-28-2017 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl (Post 2027085)
If that is your contention, then you should explain to us how the tongue weight of a 35' AS stays within the published axle weight ratings and GVWR for the Tacoma (a point you seem to have skipped over).

Using hyperbole to make a point doesn't actually help, it undermines the poster's argument by making it very easy to dismiss it, IMO.

Without hyperbole then, my point is, I think it's foolhardy to modify a vehicle to pull a trailer well beyond a manufacturer's specifications. A lot of engineering goes into building a vehicle to make it safely tow, steer and stop a trailer. Modifying that vehicle by enhancing the receiver does nothing to improve the rest of the vehicle's structural safety margin. I certainly wouldn't do it. It's dangerous.

It's just my opinion, however.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richw46 (Post 2027323)
Without hyperbole then, my point is, I think it's foolhardy to modify a vehicle to pull a trailer well beyond a manufacturer's specifications. A lot of engineering goes into building a vehicle to make it safely tow, steer and stop a trailer. Modifying that vehicle by enhancing the receiver does nothing to improve the rest of the vehicle's structural safety margin. I certainly wouldn't do it. It's dangerous.

It's just my opinion, however.



But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027335)
But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

These threads are always the same. Someone proposes towing 4000lbs with an SUV and by the end of the thread they're in jail, people are dead and insurance is void. "I knew a guy once..."

Troutboy 10-28-2017 09:08 AM

Tow Limits
 
I know a guy now, that tows a 6000lb trailer with a Jeep Grand Cherokee sUV, and it works awesome. ME!

I think Andy T knows plenty as well......

I agree countryboy.......

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:22 AM

The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:29 AM

Tow Limits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027363)
The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:



It sounds to me like the safest move is just for everyone to stay at home right? :)

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027368)
It sounds to me like the safest move is to just for everyone to stay at home right? :)

That is a total exaggeration of the point in the post you just quoted!

"Eyes wide open" especially for newcomers here.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027363)
The risks you are willing to take will vary for each of us, obviously.

The unlikely possibilities of a mfg. warranty claim being denied, or an insurance policy cancelled and claim not paid, may be unlikely -- but the risk is not zero.

The [un-named and non-USA] commercial firms that install hitches outside the limits have not been forthright here IMO about the risks to US vehicle owners who expect their warranties and insurance to cover them after an accident, which may have been caused [in the eyes of the insur. co. etc.] by a hitch/towing problem, whether roll-over, sway etc..

Easy to joke about, but not humorous for a US vehicle owner who is out-of-pocket a lot of money, and maybe held liable for further property damages, and personal injury or death.

Eyes wide open is all . . .

:blink:

Meh. Half the motoring public is speeding, overloaded, drunk or texting. Trailers aren't the issue.

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:36 AM

So five wrongs make a right?

uncle_bob 10-28-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2026972)
The problem with a truck is that my 5' tall wife, accustomed to driving her Camry Hybrid with no tow-or-be-to-towed options whatsoever, can't be comfortable in an elevated heavy vehicle. When we considered towing of any kind, we researched vehicles that are basically going to do more work bringing the eggs and orange juice home from the grocery store than any towing - if not mileage wise then incident wise. She was comfortable enough in a Highlander, so it became the vehicle of choice based on comfort, quality, resale, capability, etc. ......

Hi

I've got nothing against the Highlander at all. I also have a "wife issue" in terms of high off the ground options. That gets mentioned each time we load up the F-250. So far we are moving on ok with it.

Toyota has a "bigger brother" to the Highlander. Ford has an Expedition. They are pretty nice vehicles compared to what they once were. Hang on to you wallet when you go look at any of them ... gulp .... :) . Try ones with the camera systems on them. It makes getting in and out of tight places a whole different experience.

There are a number of Airstream's that can be quite safely towed with a Highlander (by the numbers / stock / no mods / no tricks). As mentioned above there also are ways to fiddle things. There also are some other SUV's that really are not all that crazy to consider.

Bob

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027371)
That is a total exaggeration of the point in the post you just quoted!



Not really. Just an extension. An extension that is backed by as much fact as an assertion that the OPs proposed combination, properly set up, would be any kind of undue safety hazard at all.

OTRA15 10-28-2017 09:44 AM

Your last reply is non-responsive regarding the troll-ish comments you keep making, just to have the illusion of being right IMO.

One person's "extension" can also be an exaggeration.

Over and out.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:44 AM

Vehicle tow limits are “one size fits all” limits that are set by vehicle manufacturers for mass produced vehicles.

It is an assumption that hitches, anti sway devises, effective trailer brakes, and prudent vehicle/hitch modifications can not extend these generally imposed limits.

J. Morgan 10-28-2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027380)
Your last reply is non-responsive regarding the troll-ish comments you keep making, just to have the illusion of being right IMO.

One person's "extension" can also be an exaggeration.

Over and out.



Why does disagreeing with your position in a like tone as the tone you project make me “trollish”?

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 2027376)
So five wrongs make a right?

No, but driving has risks we all take on the road. The only way to really be safe is to stay off the road. I just steer clear of anything that looks unstable. If you think a CAT scale slip on the seat of your $50,000 tow vehicle towing a $100,000 Airstream is going to keep you safe from the lawyers if you wreck you're kidding yourself.

I keep going back to the OPs question. The Highlander will tow a 22'. He may actually tow safer than someone who's been to the CAT scale 5 times today and adjusted each tire pressure to that individual wheel load. And might be a lot more fun to camp next to.

uncle_bob 10-28-2017 10:32 AM

Hi

I woud suggest that considering the warranty (and possible legal) impact of any mods to a vehicle *is* a legitimate concern. How big an issue - that depends.

The laws about "no impact to warranty from normal servicing" may not cover a 24" lift kit on a Honda Civic. I'll guarantee that how much impact they have will depend more on how much of a jerk you run into at the Honda dealer than anything else. Over the years, Honda has been *very* understanding on my vehicles ....

I have sat on a jury when some of this stuff came up. How much of an impact it had ... that's a different issue. Another jury might not have seen things the same way. Any lawyer worth having will toss up a lot of stuff "just to see if it sticks". These days, anybody that *isn't* on a cell phone while driving is way ahead of the rest of the crowd "legal wise".

Insurance always depends on the company and to some extent on the adjuster. My observation over the years is that to some degree you get what you pay for. The outfit that insures your $100,000 trailer for full replacement and charges you $50 a year ..... may not pay off no matter what the facts are. If I'm drunk and on the cell phone, none of them are going to be real happy covering the loss.

The flip side on dealer issues is that warranties aren't forever and ever. Not every vehicle has a 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty. I don't have to look very far out my front door to see vehicles with all sorts of mods on them. That may just be the part of the world I live in.

It's not black and white, there *are* very legitimate issues things to consider.

Bob

richw46 10-28-2017 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan (Post 2027335)
But the trailer being specified in this thread does not exceed the towing weight limit that the TV manufacturer applied..... right?

It doesn't exceed the towing capacity of the TV but it does exceed the max hitch capacity by 163 lbs. A WDH will reduce some of that, but I don't know by how much.

The specs on my 4Runner say 700 lbs. hitch maximum, but the receiver says that when it's used in weight distribution its maximum is 1,095 lbs. I would assume that the OP's receiver will have a similar label on it, stating its maximum, most likely higher in WD than WC.

My opinion on the OP's Highlander is that as long as he keeps his AS and TV cargo to a minimum and his speed no higher than 65 on the Interstates, he'll be OK, but he is right at capacity. He'll have to decide if that's safe enough for him. :wally:

KK4YZ 10-28-2017 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CV-8 (Post 2027179)
Actually, I apologize for a couple errors in my long message. I meant to say 20 foot Flying Cloud FB, not 19 as written. GVWR is 5,000 for the 20. Been looking at so many combinations of models that my mind slipped. The 19 configuration, 4,500, doesn't provide the layout that would work for us.

Also, I mentioned 6 volt power to the fridge. I meant to say 12 volt of course, this third power select being not available due because, I guess, no charging device operates in a trailer in transit. It is hoped that propane can fuel the cooling system on long duration travel between campground hook-ups. It would seem that ice packing is inconsistent with high-end equipment like Airstream, but may be a reality no matter how upscale.

Ok. The gvwr is 5000 lbs. that doesn’t mean you have to load the trailer to its limit. Even at that, you’re not exceeding the rated tow capacity if I understand this right.
On the fridge, keep in mind that it takes a evaporative unit many hours to cool down. We freeze water in milk cartons and place in the fridge to cool it down til the fridge takes over.
I suppose you could investigate if any AS come with 3 Way units (110vac/12vdc/LP) but I don’t know how common those are.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob (Post 2027402)
Hi

I woud suggest that considering the warranty (and possible legal) impact of any mods to a vehicle *is* a legitimate concern. How big an issue - that depends.

The laws about "no impact to warranty from normal servicing" may not cover a 24" lift kit on a Honda Civic. I'll guarantee that how much impact they have will depend more on how much of a jerk you run into at the Honda dealer than anything else. Over the years, Honda has been *very* understanding on my vehicles ....

I have sat on a jury when some of this stuff came up. How much of an impact it had ... that's a different issue. Another jury might not have seen things the same way. Any lawyer worth having will toss up a lot of stuff "just to see if it sticks". These days, anybody that *isn't* on a cell phone while driving is way ahead of the rest of the crowd "legal wise".

Insurance always depends on the company and to some extent on the adjuster. My observation over the years is that to some degree you get what you pay for. The outfit that insures your $100,000 trailer for full replacement and charges you $50 a year ..... may not pay off no matter what the facts are. If I'm drunk and on the cell phone, none of them are going to be real happy covering the loss.

The flip side on dealer issues is that warranties aren't forever and ever. Not every vehicle has a 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty. I don't have to look very far out my front door to see vehicles with all sorts of mods on them. That may just be the part of the world I live in.

It's not black and white, there *are* very legitimate issues things to consider.

Bob

As far as warranties go, I can't remember the last time I had to use a warranty. Who cares? Drivetrain components in HD trucks don't break in most usage. Most of my vehicles hit 70k miles in two years. Cars and SUVs might be another story.

By the way, it's legal to be "on a cell phone" while driving in most places (some require hands free device) and unless you have a sit-down, 8 hours-and-go-home job most people need to be available while driving. If you crash taking a phone call with today's technology you shouldn't be driving.

Anyway, my dash cams (front and rear) are always rolling.

CRH 10-28-2017 01:37 PM

As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

Adventure.AS 10-28-2017 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRH (Post 2027460)
As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

Unfortunately, if you are towing they will likely deny any warranty no matter how much under the ratings you were. I know from experience that at least one of the big 3 will assume that you must have gone over the limits and claim abuse on your part to avoid having to honor the warranty.

Countryboy59 10-28-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRH (Post 2027460)
As much as a vehicle costs today, I care about the warranty.

I guess I'm used to buying stuff that doesn't break.

bono 10-29-2017 12:39 AM

For what it's worth... I am towing 33 ft long, 7,000 lbs light Jayco trailer with BMW X5. With PP hitch, the combo is stable like rock, no sucking up from semis, obviously no sway, etc.

3k miles ago I had the engine replaced at dealership. Under warranty... The receiver is reinforced (bolted to rear axle carrier), so they even needed to drop the hitch with the reinforcement to drop the exhaust system. No questions asked about the reinforcement, etc.

Concerns about towing and warranty claims? Anybody wants to show up with a trailer at dealership to have the car fixed?

slowmover 10-29-2017 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK4YZ (Post 2026895)
SloMo is on the attack again. Kinda reminds me of a line from Blazing Saddles.... “Who can argue with that? Why that’s genuine frontier jibberish...”

You're offering alternative evidence?

Or just treading water, out of your depth?

slowmover 10-29-2017 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS (Post 2027501)
Unfortunately, if you are towing they will likely deny any warranty no matter how much under the ratings you were. I know from experience that at least one of the big 3 will assume that you must have gone over the limits and claim abuse on your part to avoid having to honor the warranty.

"Likely"? Based on what? Moss-Magnuson?

I've used Texas dealerships where trucks come in for service. Warranty and otherwise. Unless one has practically broken the frame (and I've seen that) , warranty is going to be honored. Why shouldn't it?

Besides, where ARE these broken tow vehicles? Having towed this trailer type. Uncles cousins wife's co-worker?

jcl 10-29-2017 01:25 AM

It sounds like some posters are assuming that their warranties are for something more than defects in materials and workmanship.

The manufacturer's warranty typically doesn't cover a guarantee of fitness for purpose. If a warranty claim is denied, it is usually because it is for something that isn't covered. You can blame it on the towing, but it would help us all to see the failure analysis report that showed how the towing caused a failure that was not related to a manufacturer's defect. Redact the personal info, and post the service report and failure analysis.

J. Morgan 10-29-2017 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2027505)
I guess I'm used to buying stuff that doesn't break.



Me too. Except, in 1990 I bought Dodge with a Cummins and a five speed Gertag transmission. The transmission failed, and they assumed I overloaded it and didn’t cover the repair.

That is the last Chrysler product I ever bought.

Of course the Gertag was trash, and they knew it.

Other than that, my use of warranties has been slim to none, when I have used one its like “the dome light doesn’t come on when I open the door”.....

I have never had any other kind of major failure under warranty.

Adventure.AS 10-29-2017 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 2027609)
"Likely"? Based on what? Moss-Magnuson?

I've used Texas dealerships where trucks come in for service. Warranty and otherwise. Unless one has practically broken the frame (and I've seen that) , warranty is going to be honored. Why shouldn't it?

Besides, where ARE these broken tow vehicles? Having towed this trailer type. Uncles cousins wife's co-worker?

No Moss-Magnuson in Canada.

The dealer needs to bring the manufacturer's rep who's job is to deny warranty claims. All they have to say is abuse and it is denied. No appeal.

Background: Factory hitch rated for 3,500 lbs and used for towing small 1900 lb (loaded) trailer, Bolts started to pull through bumper attachment points which were just sheet metal.

JMynes 10-29-2017 09:14 AM

A little off topic, but I now have one name in my ‘ignore’ list.

uncle_bob 10-29-2017 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countryboy59 (Post 2027437)

By the way, it's legal to be "on a cell phone" while driving in most places (some require hands free device) and unless you have a sit-down, 8 hours-and-go-home job most people need to be available while driving. If you crash taking a phone call with today's technology you shouldn't be driving.
.

Hi

Be really careful with that up here in the north east. A number of states have laws that will not let you have a cell phone in your hand while driving (either for calls or text). Regardless of the law specifically saying you can't, a lot of people still do have the phone up to their ear rolling down the road.

More to the point of this thread, if you are texting or chatting on the phone when there is an accident, that's going to come up. "Distracted driving" as a contributor to the accident will get tossed back and forth. Exactly how that all works out through the twists and turns of insurance and / or a court case - who knows.

Weight limits aren't the only thing that *might* get you tangled up in the event something goes wrong. The list is pretty long ....

Bob


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