Airstream Forums

Airstream Forums (http://www.airforums.com/forums/)
-   Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/)
-   -   What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28.. (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/what-vehicle-to-tow-a-2016-fc-28-a-163791.html)

SCOTTinNJ 03-20-2017 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd (Post 1925008)
You're right about the EcoDiesel being a small engine. The Ford F-150 diesel will probably not be much better. My diesel SUV has a more powerful engine than the EcoDiesel, and that kind of turns me off. But I do like the low-end torque of a diesel. When I was younger I wanted 5000 RPM. Now I prefer chugging along at 1800 RPM.

The RAM is 3.0L. Ford has announced that theirs will also be 3.0L. No HP or torque figures have been released to my knowledge.

USAtraveler 03-20-2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leje (Post 1923982)
This payload comment is absolutely false. The Tundra is a half ton truck with half ton payload. The 2014 Tundra platinum I traded for my Denali HD had a payload of 1400 lbs. the Tundra has open c channel in the rear of the frame which is done to help the ride. However, it doesn't help stability towing large loads.

You may want to check your math, LeJe. 1400 lbs is just 100 lbs short of 3/4 ton. Your tricked out model gave up some payload for the crew cab style and other add-ons. But far from my claim that the Tundra is actually a 3/4 ton being "absolutely false", I was really being conservative. The larger Tundra first introduced at the February 2006 Chicago Auto Show featured towing capacity of up to 10,000 lb, and a payload capacity of over 2,000 lb (that's a full 1 ton, btw). Not every style of Tundra has the same payload or towing capacity, of course, but every 5.7 V8 Tundra comes equipped with a tow package which includes engine oil and transmission coolers, integrated trailer hitch, 4.30:1 axle ratio, and large braking hardware for increased fade resistance. The 5.7-liter V8 Tundra has a tow rating of 9,00010,400 lb depending on body style.
Plus the better reliability rating and resale value!:D

SCOTTinNJ 03-20-2017 06:33 PM

You can't really take 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton nomenclature literally. They are nominal at best.

MelGoddard 03-21-2017 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd (Post 1925008)
You're right about the EcoDiesel being a small engine. The Ford F-150 diesel will probably not be much better. My diesel SUV has a more powerful engine than the EcoDiesel, and that kind of turns me off. But I do like the low-end torque of a diesel. When I was younger I wanted 5000 RPM. Now I prefer chugging along at 1800 RPM.



But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

USAtraveler 03-22-2017 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services......

The ancillary equipment on some engines is designed to work at lower engine RPM's. Driving around town at 30-35 mph, the engine in my Tacoma V6 is only turning around 1500 RPMs. All the ancillary stuff does everything its supposed to at that speed. At 2500 RPMs my truck is doing somewhere around 75 mph. If I had to wait for the engine to get turning at 2500 RPM before the ancillary equipment started working properly, I'd be in deep doo-doo.:D

SpletKay06 03-22-2017 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

It's called engineering the new rams use an electric cooling fan and electric power steering. Heck they even have electric heaters built into the dash for faster warm air in the winter. Most alternators produce full output at a high idle 1200-1500 rpm. So really there is no reason to run your engine at 2500 plus rpm if you don't need the power.

leje 03-22-2017 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAtraveler (Post 1925080)
You may want to check your math, LeJe. 1400 lbs is just 100 lbs short of 3/4 ton. Your tricked out model gave up some payload for the crew cab style and other add-ons. But far from my claim that the Tundra is actually a 3/4 ton being "absolutely false", I was really being conservative. The larger Tundra first introduced at the February 2006 Chicago Auto Show featured towing capacity of up to 10,000 lb, and a payload capacity of over 2,000 lb (that's a full 1 ton, btw). Not every style of Tundra has the same payload or towing capacity, of course, but every 5.7 V8 Tundra comes equipped with a tow package which includes engine oil and transmission coolers, integrated trailer hitch, 4.30:1 axle ratio, and large braking hardware for increased fade resistance. The 5.7-liter V8 Tundra has a tow rating of 9,00010,400 lb depending on body style.
Plus the better reliability rating and resale value!:D

You are technically correct, a fair point. HOWEVER, in relative terms, the Tundra is no more capable than any other "half ton" in terms of payload. I owned one. I loved it. But, I got rid of it because it lacked the capability I needed to tow a 27FB international and my precious cargo.

I just didn't want anyone to get the impression the Tundra is something it's not. What it is, is a great "half ton" truck.

Mergatroyd 03-22-2017 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

The EcoBoost is indeed an impressive engine. But I like the feel of my diesel, especially while towing. It develops max torque at 1600-2000 RPM. On the highway at 65 MPH it's at 1800 RPM, and it hardly ever has to downshift to maintain speed on interstate highway hills.

rostam 03-22-2017 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

Poor car manufacturers. Up to now, many folks in this forum have been incessantly claiming that car companies do not know anything about towing. Now, you are taking it a step further saying that car manufacturers do not even know how to build a car -- their core competency. FYI, our diesel SUV generates max torque at 1600 RPM. My guess is that the engine stays under 2000 RPM for 90% of the time. All the ancillary services work fine as they are engineered to do.

IAMGLG 03-23-2017 10:12 AM

It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

MelGoddard 03-23-2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1926254)
It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

Good for you! Somebody who does have a clue.:D
Nice read, thank you.

MelGoddard 03-25-2017 07:12 PM

A number of 'posters' here have commented on how things are 'engineered' to work as they do. However..........
There are a number of us 'grey haired' mechanics who look at some of these designs, and wonder; 'What were these guys thinking when they came up with 'this' abortion?'

I can't speak for everyone, so I'll use me as an example:
I'm in my late 70s, have now owned 11 vehicles since 1961, (the Ford), and over the years have spent far too much money on car repairs caused by poor designs.
The Austin, two Volvos, are the prime reason that I could never afford to obtain a commercial pilot's license, so I had to settle for Aircraft mechanic. (AME)
The list goes on, up to a Mercury Capri that lasted me over 300,000 Kliks, without any untowards costs. Then I went to Subaru. There were, and still are, untoward expenses there. (Eg. Take a look at the 'U-joints' on the drive shaft.)

I have written up an 11 page document of the vehicles that I have owned, and how they performed.
If you were to read it, you may ask: why didn't I just get a horse?
In hindsite, a good question; but I needed the cars for work.

(I had the bills to prove my costs, but tossed them out when I moved here last year.)


I even have the same problem with the Ford, that I have had with every other vehicle; the inability of the engine to warm up fast enough to defrost the window when cold soaked overnight in the Winter.
The company's answer? "Drive it slowly to warm up"; a good trick when the windows are iced over, and needs a jackhammer to remove it..

Only Toyota got it right with the Camry. It warms up pretty fast.

Contacting the engineers, (if possible) from the various companys, and showing proof of the problem is like talking to a blank wall. It seems that they don't drive their own products.

Where I worked (and retired from), we had a saying: "You can always tell an Engineer, but you can't tell him anything!"

(I'll bet this one opens a 'frisky' dialogue.)

MWL530 03-27-2017 07:30 PM

Many thanks to everyone!!
 
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

cabinetmaker 03-27-2017 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

That's not much truck for a 28'...be safe out there!

slowmover 03-28-2017 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1927314)
A number of 'posters' here have commented on how things are 'engineered' to work as they do. However..........
There are a number of us 'grey haired' mechanics who look at some of these designs, and wonder; 'What were these guys thinking when they came up with 'this' abortion?'

I can't speak for everyone, so I'll use me as an example:
I'm in my late 70s, have now owned 11 vehicles since 1961, (the Ford), and over the years have spent far too much money on car repairs caused by poor designs.
The Austin, two Volvos, are the prime reason that I could never afford to obtain a commercial pilot's license, so I had to settle for Aircraft mechanic. (AME)
The list goes on, up to a Mercury Capri that lasted me over 300,000 Kliks, without any untowards costs. Then I went to Subaru. There were, and still are, untoward expenses there. (Eg. Take a look at the 'U-joints' on the drive shaft.)

I have written up an 11 page document of the vehicles that I have owned, and how they performed.
If you were to read it, you may ask: why didn't I just get a horse?
In hindsite, a good question; but I needed the cars for work.

(I had the bills to prove my costs, but tossed them out when I moved here last year.)


I even have the same problem with the Ford, that I have had with every other vehicle; the inability of the engine to warm up fast enough to defrost the window when cold soaked overnight in the Winter.
The company's answer? "Drive it slowly to warm up"; a good trick when the windows are iced over, and needs a jackhammer to remove it..

Only Toyota got it right with the Camry. It warms up pretty fast.

Contacting the engineers, (if possible) from the various companys, and showing proof of the problem is like talking to a blank wall. It seems that they don't drive their own products.

Where I worked (and retired from), we had a saying: "You can always tell an Engineer, but you can't tell him anything!"

(I'll bet this one opens a 'frisky' dialogue.)



Rocket Science: dual engine block heaters. A cover for the passenger cab.

Better yet, a garage.

tjdonahoe 03-28-2017 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

I believe you will find after bit you have too lite of a tow vehicle, my neighbor did the same, 1 year later he has a 2500 duramax......I do have passport America, for the past 8 years, I do like it ,it more than pays for itself...nice travels...:D

IAMGLG 03-28-2017 10:30 AM

You will do just fine with that assembly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

Having "been there done that" with two "trucks" on my 28 foot International (a 2001 1500 Suburban and a 2006 Cadillac Escalade ESD) you will have no problem going anywhere in North America with that rig. I have a Reese equalizer cam hitch and have put more miles on the rig than I can count. Drive 55 to 60 and smell the flowers along the way. You'll be fine.

MelGoddard 03-29-2017 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 1928403)
Rocket Science: dual engine block heaters. A cover for the passenger cab.

Better yet, a garage.

And where does one plug in a twenty mile long extention cord, or find a garage when parked at roads end out in 'the Bush'?
:lol:

Moflash 03-29-2017 09:04 PM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
Some of these analogies on Diesel engines are only partially correct.A diesel does have a flat torque curve over a low rom operating range from idle to approximately 3500 rpm where as a gasoline engine builds torque as rpm increases and usually produces the most torque at approx 5500 rpm in most cases.A much narrower torque curve.The new computerized multi speed transmissions
are designed to keep the proper rpm for maximizing torque when pulling.The result is more downshifting and running at high rpm to maintain speed on hills and on ramps when trying to merge into traffic.

The benefit of pulling a load with diesel is it develops torque (pulling force) at low rpms (500) and maintains it all the way thru its operating range.That is why locomotives and Semi trucks are Diesel engines.
Go up a steep hill and it seldom needs to downshift or search for a lower gear in order to maintain constant speed.Diesel engines produce much more torque than gasoline engines for instance the new 2017 Ford 6.7 TD puts out 440hp and 925 ft lbs of pulling torque while its 6.2 gasoline variant 385 hp and 435 ft lbs of pulling torque.
There is a big difference in the towing experience with a diesel vs gas engine.

Pulling a 28ft with a 5.3 v8 GMC 1500 will on the marginal scale as stated in this thread by the people that own one and have already tried .As you too will experience on your own. Safe travels

IAMGLG 03-30-2017 10:43 AM

Horespower is horsepower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash (Post 1929300)
Some of these analogies on Diesel engines are only partially correct.A diesel does have a flat torque curve over a low rom operating range from idle to approximately 3500 rpm where as a gasoline engine builds torque as rpm increases and usually produces the most torque at approx 5500 rpm in most cases.A much narrower torque curve.The new computerized multi speed transmissions
are designed to keep the proper rpm for maximizing torque when pulling.The result is more downshifting and running at high rpm to maintain speed on hills and on ramps when trying to merge into traffic.

The benefit of pulling a load with diesel is it develops torque (pulling force) at low rpms (500) and maintains it all the way thru its operating range.That is why locomotives and Semi trucks are Diesel engines.
Go up a steep hill and it seldom needs to downshift or search for a lower gear in order to maintain constant speed.Diesel engines produce much more torque than gasoline engines for instance the new 2017 Ford 6.7 TD puts out 440hp and 925 ft lbs of pulling torque while its 6.2 gasoline variant 385 hp and 435 ft lbs of pulling torque.
There is a big difference in the towing experience with a diesel vs gas engine.

Pulling a 28ft with a 5.3 v8 GMC 1500 will on the marginal scale as stated in this thread by the people that own one and have already tried .As you too will experience on your own. Safe travels

I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car or trailer.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.