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-   -   What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28.. (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/what-vehicle-to-tow-a-2016-fc-28-a-163791.html)

MWL530 03-12-2017 12:12 AM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
I am about to purchase a 28 ft 2016 FC. It's my first AS. I'm asking for guidance on the proper vehicle(s) for towing. I would like to purchase a 1-2 yrs old considering Ford 150, Toyota Tundra, Chevy/ GMC 1500 SLT. Will be driven Ozarks and Ar-Tx.
Diesel pro and con? Thanks

DC Bruce 03-15-2017 11:58 AM

We've towed our FC 27 about 35k miles in the past 18 months. Coast-to-coast and back, all over the Mountain West, one end of coastal California to the other, from D.C. to northern Maine coast by way of Green mountains of Vermont and White Mountains of New Hampshire. Tow vehicle is a 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT with 6.2 liter V-8 and max trailer tow package, which has been trouble-free for 51k miles and totally satisfactory. We're 2 people and a 100-lb. dog. Payload is the key number here: ours is 1960 lbs. Unless you need to carry over 2,000 lbs. in your truck, I see no reason for a 3/4 ton. It's less handy as a daily driver than a 1/2 ton. Although the diesel crowd will no doubt join this thread to disagree, I see no reason for the extra cost and higher maintenance costs of a diesel. Reported fuel economy for the 3/4 ton diesels is about what I get. Remember that the 3/4 ton truck itself is from 1,000 to 1,500 pounds heavier than the 1/2 ton, both empty. The diesel exhaust brake appears to be superior to the engine braking of a gas V-8, but in your service I wouldn't care about the difference. There was never a time that I wished my truck had more engine braking. The 3/4 tons will have bigger fuel tanks, which will give you more range. Again, in your service that shouldn't matter. Once or twice in the empty parts of Nevada I was down to my last gallon or two of fuel, but you can always carry a JERRY can. I carry a smaller can for my 2kw generator. I suspect that the smaller 5.3 liter V-8 in the Chevy/GMC will be adequate for your use, but be sure to get the 8-speed tranny. The 6.2 is great but hard to find. The F150 with the Ecoboost motor is a popular choice. I could never find a truck with more than 1750 lbs. payload and the seats just didn't agree with me. The smaller displacement Ecoboost engine may not provide as much engine braking as either of the two GM V-8s; I'm not sure. Be sure you get the trailer tow packages, which include extra cooling for engine and tranny and payload increases. Ram doesn't match either Ford or GM in payload in a crew cab 1/2 ton although I've seen folks who use those trucks to pull 27/28 Airstreams. Same with Toyota. If you need the payload of a 3/4 ton, I suggest the Ram with the optional 6.4 liter gas engine. Although fuel economy will be 2-3 mpg worse, you will save a lot on purchase price. I've met several folks who were happy with this combination pulling 27/28 ft. Airstreams. In my own test drive of this truck, it felt plenty powerful, unlike the Chevy 6 liter gas engine in their 3/4 ton. As for the small diesels in the 1/2 tons, I am very skeptical. Torque starts the load, but horsepower gets you up the hill; and 240 horsepower ain't much when you're moving 14,000 lbs of truck and trailer.

Arcticfox 03-15-2017 08:56 PM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
Very well thought out post Bruce. Well done!
By the way we pull our 28' with a F150 Eco with HD Tow package and it has been great

leje 03-17-2017 05:50 AM

I'll be the first diesel guy to chime in. I owned a Tundra before my Denali HD with the Duramax. There is absolutely no comparison as the 3/4 diesel beats the half ton in every possible way by a far margin, especially fuel efficiency.

If you're wondering if the trucks you listed can do it, they can, but do you want to be operating at 90% capacity?

I applaud the first two posters for their consideration of Ford and GMs payload packages. Payload will be your biggest consideration, and if you mind it, the roads will be a safer place for everyone.

Llando88 03-17-2017 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1921681)
I am about to purchase a 28 ft 2016 FC. It's my first AS. I'm asking for guidance on the proper vehicle(s) for towing. I would like to purchase a 1-2 yrs old considering Ford 150, Toyota Tundra, Chevy/ GMC 1500 SLT. Will be driven Ozarks and Ar-Tx.
Diesel pro and con? Thanks

Welcome to the forums.

Having seen some of these discussions, it might help narrow down your choices if you add some additional information:

How much previous towing experience do you have?

Besides the AS, what do you plan to carry in your TV (additional people, carried equipment and the AS toungue+hitch weight all count as cargo)

How many miles a day do you plan to tow? (longer distances will favor larger vehicles with bigger fuel tanks.)

Will you be traveling up/down highways with significant (Interstates with 6% grades, secondary roads with up to 10%) elevation changes? (Flat towing will not suggest a diesel brake, however it is an advantage on hills)

Do you need to worry about overall fuel costs (i.e. running costs) or are you more concerned about initial outlay? (while generally better fuel mileage, diesels will likely cost more initially and may have higher operating costs for maintenance than an equivalent gas model)

What would you like to stay within as far as TV budget?

What is your budget for a weight distribution/sway control hitch?

IMHO a 28FC, paired with an effective WD/sway control hitch, can be safely towed by a modern 1/2 T truck. I would take the advice of those on the forum with experience, pay attention to discussion on specific weights, compare them to the numbers on the truck you are contemplating, then analyze your rig on a accurate scale.

Depending on your comfort zone, a 3/4 T truck, with or without diesel, will add additional margin to your towing experience, however getting the right answer depends on assessing what you need in your specific case, hence the 20 quesitons. :)

Good luck with your Airstream, and again, welcome! It really is a lot of fun.

Rich

cabinetmaker 03-17-2017 09:12 AM

Get a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton...if you don't you will always wish you had.

Can the other 1/2 tons do the job..or the 3/4 gas? Yes, but not nearly as good. The exhaust brake is worth the price of admission.

dugster 03-17-2017 12:32 PM

I love towing our 2016 FC28 with a 2014 Siverado 2500 Duramax. It gives me freedom to go anywhere I want and carry anything I want. I enjoy focus on destinations and activities without concerns about payload or mountain passes. The earlier comment about deisel exhaust brakes was spot on. The 3/4 ton truck has better suspension, brakes, power and capacity. All those factors make travel more carefree.

Rgentum 03-17-2017 01:16 PM

Had Ford F150.
Now have Ram/Cummins 2500.
Glad to have made the switch (for all the reasons stated above) & won't go back.
For me, it was the difference between "marginal" & "(fill in the blank) to spare."
Admittedly, however, I don't use the Ram as a daily driver, and if I were limited to one truck as both a daily driver & a TV, I'd reconsider a half ton. The Ram is a big, heavy, powerful (and somewhat awkward) truck, which makes it great for pulling the AS, but not so good for driving in city traffic or parking downtown.

WindyJim 03-17-2017 01:32 PM

Two things: I have a 1/2 ton Chevy and was able to successfully roll (over) a 27 foot AS. The truck and trailer were pretty loaded at the time, 6% down grade, going around corners, etc. etc. My point is even with the anti-sway bars, load levelers, etc. I felt things were marginal.

I decreased the size of my next AS to a 25 footer, and am very happy with it. I still have the 1/2 ton Chevy, but a major improvement was I put the higher pressure tires on it (same as found on the 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups). Man, what a vast improvement that was. The increased tire pressure means less "swishiness" and much more stable towing, so if you do get a 1/2 ton I would spend the $1500 or so to upgrade the tires!

Now, diesel versus gas. The diesel has so many advantages, and a few disadvantages. I talked to an individual this last weekend who took his new 2017 (2 week old) 30 foot classic down to Mexico with an Airstream caravan (this is a $130,000 Airstream). He had a sensor go out on his diesel down there, and because Mexico doesn't have the same air regulations as the U.S., the dealers down there didn't have the sensor in their system they didn't know how and could not do the repairs. His truck would not run with the faulty sensor.

He had to have his truck and AS towed 900 miles back to the U.S. The tow truck didn't have a 7-pin connector such that the tow was done without being able to use the trailer brakes. (The tow was with the truck up on a flatbed, and towing the trailer). Five days couped up in the front seat of this old tow truck (not a crew cab) with the AS owner and wife and their dog to get back home. The brakes gave out on the tow truck so they waited in some small town for 6 hours while the driver fabricated replacement brake shoes from parts available in the small town. I didn't ask him what his tow bill was, but overall it was a sad testimony for having a diesel out of country. (It was a GM 3/4 ton pickup with diesel).

m rafferty 03-17-2017 02:17 PM

No one with a 3/4 ton diesel has ever wanted to go back to a 1/2 ton for towing.
Daily driver, maybe, but if the question is; what is the best tow vehicle, simple.

hollonre 03-17-2017 02:23 PM

Payload is everything here. The 28 ft. unit has almost 200 lbs. additional tongue weight compared to a 27 ft. unit (976 vs 791). That will cut into your available payload. With my wife, 230 lbs. of dog (two berners), me, and daily travel goodies, we are pretty much at the limit. With that said, I tow my 2011 FC 28 with a 2016 Tahoe 5.3 engine and heavy duty trailer package. It does fine. We just completed an 8000 mile jaunt from Wisconsin through Alabama, Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. While there were a few times when the additional power and engine braking would have been nice, most days were fine, even in some heavy cross wind (I have WD hitch, but not manual anti-sway). Make sure it is set up right and take the rig to the scales loaded as you would for travel - including the dog! Get accurate rig and tongue weights.

Howard L. 03-17-2017 02:28 PM

Your 28 has the heaviest tongue weight of em all. So right there you are loading your 1/2 ton as much as possible. I towed our 30 FC with a 2011 Chevy 1/2 ton crew cab with the 6.2 gas engine for one trip only. Traded for a 2012 3/4 ton duramax when we got home. If you go with a 1/2 ton, get used to stopping a lot for gas. Plan on spending as much as you can on a weight distribution hitch and watching your TV load carefully. Also, check with your dealer about the 1/2 ton truck's factory hitch capacity. The above 2011 1/2 ton Chevy's receiver was rated 500 pound tongue wt. If you look back at TV recommendations for a 27 or larger Airstreams: 1/2 ton tow--some like just fine and some move up to a 3/4 TV. Nobody with a 3/4 ton moves down to a 1/2 ton. Finally, do not discount the safety afforded by the heavy duty suspension of the 3/4 or one ton tow vehicle. That suspension, 10 ply tires, heavy duty breaks, etc. all add to your safe towing.

EarlM 03-17-2017 03:24 PM

I say a 2500 or a 3500 diesel or ford if you want to be safe.

Asherstanton 03-17-2017 03:47 PM

Go to
Big truck big rv
On you tube. He would say f150 gas if your TT is under 6500lbs. This guy seems to be knowledgeable.

Betty Farmer 03-17-2017 04:08 PM

We previously owned a 25 foot Sierra which we pulled with a 1/2 Ton Chev., Z71, with a tow package and a short bed. I don't load any more than is needed, in the TV as well as the trailer. That vehicle worked wonderfully with the 25 foot - in the mountains and on level land.

We now own a 28 foot Classic. The 1/2 ton will pull it. The 28 ' puts too much weight on the tongue for the 1/2 ton Chev. Our life work was with heavy trucks and equipment. Not myself, but my husband is very knowledgeable re: vehicles, weights, etc.

It is an overkill, but we pull the 28 ' with my husbands 1 ton GMC with dual rear tires, and the long bed - just because we owned it prior to trading up in the Airstream. I love to pull with that 1 ton GMC, as I can pull the 28 ft without hooking up the sway attachment. And that is simply due to the dual rear tires. I don't understand the statements referring to the length creating a problem. I have never experienced any more problems in turning, parking, etc of the long bed over the short bed. You certainly have to be very observant with either one. Depends totally on what you intend to put into the tow vehicle. I like having the extra length. If we see something we want to buy, I want the room in the tow vehicle.

I will eventually buy a 3/4 ton GMC, probably gas and it does not have the duallys available and will go back to hooking up that sway attachment. Happy traveling

AirstreamCSH 03-17-2017 05:11 PM

We just went through this process with a 25FB which has a heavy tongue weight. Payload will define the TV capability and your personal situation will define the truck setup. I broke-out the payload calculator from my AS specifications spreadsheet and you can see it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

In my case, we had 4 people and I input realistic weights for them. I would be carrying one compressor and two propane generators so those were added and I had a cargo weight of 152# and a people weight of 710#. Absent actual scale measurements, I use a fair estimate from this forum that the tongue would be 1000# and the weight distribution hitch in practical use would return 200# back. So at a minimum, I would need a truck with a payload capacity of 1,761#.

Now, you need to decide the size of the cab. Crew Cab is the largest, cost the most and chews-up the most amount of your payload. If you don't need all the bells & whistles of a nice interior, seats & so forth, you can further expand your options. No problem finding F150's that can sticker out above the 1,761# if you are flexible on cab size and options. But ... if you start adding a bed top and other cargo items, then the payload requirement also increases.

So .. first use the calculator and be honest with what will go in the truck. Then, balance your budget with wants for cab size & trim level.

Then ... read the postings on 1/2 ton .vs. 3/4 ton.

In my case, using the spreadsheet you saw attached, I added 200# for a cap and needed a truck just about 2000#. For a variety of reasons, I chose the 3/4 ton for safety and practical considerations of oversizing. Since I was expecting to climb mountains out west, I went with the diesel knowing it was more expensive to buy and maintain plus would reduce my payload. Further, since the vehicle was already a 3/4 ton and the engine a diesel, I was comfortable being within a hundred pounds of the payload sticker because the truck had plenty of built-in overcapacity and in my opinion, was de-rated from it's 1-ton brother for non-engineering reasons. In my case, I went with a Ford F250 Diesel Crew Cab. If I didn't go diesel, I could have gotten more payload from the gas and while I debated it, that debate lasted about 60-seconds each time.

People will tell you here you can tow with a Cam-Am custom made hitch on a Ford Fiesta. My perspective is that life is too short to be spending any time fighting a legal and/or a health battle should the unthinkable happen and I have an accident. Doesn't mean I need a Kenwood Tractor but the 1/2 ton just didn't cut it from an overall heft/stability standpoint, the 3/4 ton was right there and the 1-ton was overkill. So while I normally go with overkill, keep in mind that the Airstream is riveted aluminum and doesn't want a lot of suspension stress sent backwards which is what will happen if your way oversize your vehicle.

Short answer; get a 3/4 ton within your budget on a relatively late model unit.

USAtraveler 03-17-2017 06:42 PM

Buying a used truck for a TV....no question...go with the Tundra. Basically a 3/4 ton payload. Best reliability rating of any p/u and in rare cases you need parts or service, they are available everywhere...even in Mexico. I drove a new 2008 Tundra w/o tow pkg for 4 years, towing a tandem axle utility trailer loaded with tools and materials...heavier I'd wager than the 28"FC. Towed it everywhere, never had a problem. True, the engine worked hard maintaining 55 uphill, but so what...you're not out there trying to qualify for the Daytona 500, and the Tundra engine/tranny can handle it...never overheated or rev'ed close to redline. Resale value after 4 years was also better than any other make.

IAMGLG 03-17-2017 07:10 PM

1500 Suburban or equivalent GM product.

tjdonahoe 03-17-2017 08:25 PM

After reading the above posts, I still like my 17 2500 ram ,6.7 cummalong, crew cab and short box, no problem driving in town or finding a parking space , and it don't get scared when there is a long pull up the road and you don't go up the pass with the flashers on...no such thing as too much horsepower or too much money......:D

Holy Grail 03-17-2017 08:34 PM

I concur 100%. Exhaust brake is worth it all. I have a FC28. My TV is a Ram 2500 with Cummins. I can drive away from a stop on a hill. Used to tow with 1500 Ram Hemi. It was far from adequate on all levels.

VaTravelers 03-17-2017 10:22 PM

I have a 28' 2017 Serenity. My TV is a 2005 F250 diesel with 42K miles. I know I can pull it with a 1/2 ton truck, but the peace of mind of the heavier TV is well worth the extra cost. The last thing any of us wants is adding one more thing to worry about driving down the road.

dkottum 03-17-2017 10:49 PM

We have traveled with our Airstream FC 25 (a FC 28 weighs 300 lbs more fully loaded and they both will load near 1,000 lbs hitch weight, 200 lbs less on the truck after weight distribution) in every western and central state, all of the southeast and most of the northeast, much of it several times, with a 2012 Ram 1500 Reg Cab Hemi. Plenty of power, decent fuel economy, we never needed anything but our truck and trailer service brakes to stop it. Using engine compression and low transmission gears saves the brakes. It was a $24,000 new truck.

With a trade-in offer of nearly that, we got a 2016 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 8-speed. Even better tow vehicle , 28-30 mpg solo and 16-19 mpg towing, and a really nice daily driver.

Payload. Payload/GVWR will help us keep from overloading our rear axle when hauling loads and not towing with a weight distribution hitch. When we hitch up our Airstream and set the weight distribution system, the payload/GVWR tells us nothing. We weigh the truck/trailer to ensure our axles are not overloaded and the combo is within the truck's GCWR which tells us what the truck is designed to pull and stop. Our Ram axles are rated to carry 3900 lbs each.

Weight distribution hitch. Fully 1/3 of a safe and successful towing combination, a quality, capable hitch will help ensure our axles are not overloaded, ensure we have enough weight on the steering axle for control in all weather conditions, and either help control or eliminate the possibility of trailer sway. We use the Hensley/ProPride design that eliminates the possibility of sway and always keeps the trailer in alignment with out truck. A half-ton truck must have a properly set up and capable w.d. hitch for a medium size Airstream.

Suspension. Independent suspension at each wheel is far superior for stability, but not offered on common pickups. Some large SUV's have it, the Ford Expedition is a good example, and it's Ecoboost engine delivers all the power you will need. Our Rams have front independent suspension and the cheap rear solid axle suspension common to pickups. Full coil suspension gives a smooth, comfortable ride and a little more stability at the rear axle. Without weight distribution, the rear suspension will sag. You do not need after-market air bags to bring it back up, a capable w.d. hitch will do it if you don't overload the bed of the pickup.

Worries. None.

leje 03-18-2017 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAtraveler (Post 1923864)
Buying a used truck for a TV....no question...go with the Tundra. Basically a 3/4 ton payload. Best reliability rating of any p/u and in rare cases you need parts or service, they are available everywhere...even in Mexico. I drove a new 2008 Tundra w/o tow pkg for 4 years, towing a tandem axle utility trailer loaded with tools and materials...heavier I'd wager than the 28"FC. Towed it everywhere, never had a problem. True, the engine worked hard maintaining 55 uphill, but so what...you're not out there trying to qualify for the Daytona 500, and the Tundra engine/tranny can handle it...never overheated or rev'ed close to redline. Resale value after 4 years was also better than any other make.

This payload comment is absolutely false. The Tundra is a half ton truck with half ton payload. The 2014 Tundra platinum I traded for my Denali HD had a payload of 1400 lbs. the Tundra has open c channel in the rear of the frame which is done to help the ride. However, it doesn't help stability towing large loads.

SCOTTinNJ 03-18-2017 07:30 AM

If you go diesel watch payload even on 3/4 tons. Often it makes sense just to jump to 1 ton at that point. Not as much with gas engines as they weigh significantly less.

silverlabs 03-18-2017 08:46 AM

I will add my two cents on this subject which as typical with tow vehicle discussions goes a little bit of everywhere. I have had a 25FC and currently have a 28FC. I towed the 25FC and 28FC with either a 2011 F150 EcoBoost or a 2015 F150 EcoBoost and both did a fine job with either trailer through extensive Western US and Canada travels. Long uphill climbs in Montana and CO in July/August heat tested the truck but did fine overall. Payload as many have indicated is something to watch for as the tongue weight on a 28FC is easily a few hundred more pounds than a 25FC even though overall weight fully loaded is only 300 pounds more. I can't speak on how the OP travels and loads their truck but for us not really an issue.

Due to some electrical gremlins in the 2015 F150 that continued to arise I ordered a 2017 F250 6.7 Platinum when the order banks opened up and took possession of the truck late Sept 2016. Absolutely love the truck. Just completed a 6,700 mile trip with the 28FC and my wife even commented how much better the F250 was to ride in while on a long trip. That alone is a win win. Smooth on highway, no effects when 18 wheelers blast by you going the opposite direction on small two lane roads and the exhaust brakes make going downhill a pleasure. Uphill climbs, no issue whatsoever on even the steepest climbs. We also were on I10 right before they closed the highway for a few days due to wind/dust a few weeks ago and felt little to no affects of the wind. I do use a ProPride hitch which I highly recommend.

After using the F150's for pulling thousands of miles and just the comparison of the short pulling experience so far with the F250, I doubt that I would ever go back to a 1/2 ton. The overall comfort in knowing the truck can handle most any situation you will encounter makes the travel and towing experience must more relaxed and comfortable in the long run.

Good luck in your decision and safe travels with whichever combination you decide on. Only you know your travel habits and comfort zone in pulling.

Chuck

Mergatroyd 03-18-2017 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1921681)
I am about to purchase a 28 ft 2016 FC. It's my first AS. I'm asking for guidance on the proper vehicle(s) for towing. I would like to purchase a 1-2 yrs old considering Ford 150, Toyota Tundra, Chevy/ GMC 1500 SLT. Will be driven Ozarks and Ar-Tx.
Diesel pro and con? Thanks

A 1/2 ton will do the job pulling a 28 but it's near the upper limit on pulling and payload. The 28 has almost a 1000 lb hitch weight and that doesn't leave much payload for other things in the truck. A 3/4 ton will do a better job towing on the Highway but it's not easy taking it to the supermarket. If you're going to unhitch and use it around town a lot I would recommend a 1/2 ton. If you're going back and forth Florida to Alaska then I'd get a 3/4 ton. Diesel is better for towing since it develops max torque at low RPM cruising speeds, and also because your MPG won't suffer as much while towing. You can get a diesel in the Ram 1500 and Ford F-150 is coming out with one in 2018. Otherwise you'll need to step up to a 3/4 ton for a diesel.

MelGoddard 03-18-2017 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcticfox (Post 1923154)
Very well thought out post Bruce. Well done!
By the way we pull our 28' with a F150 Eco with HD Tow package and it has been great

Same here for a 30' FC.:D

paulken 03-18-2017 04:35 PM

For a 28 foot I would use no less than a 3/4 ton truck.

I pull a 28 with a 2003 Dodge 1 ton DRW and it works for me. the truck has a 35 gallon tank and I carry 45 more gallons in the bed. I can stop in Cheyenne WY and fill up and drive back to Texas and have 1/3 of a tank left. I don't have to worry about finding a gas station that has the room to get the trailer in and out.

When backing up to hookup the trailer my wife helps to guide and by the time I get out she can have it on the ball and almost all hooked up.

When I bought my trailer I got both the truck and trailer together. The PO had pulled this trailer for 10 years with a 1994 Dodge 3/4 SRW and than bought The 1 ton for the next 10 years.

So what I can say about using a 1 ton DRW is that it makes life a lot easier.

paulken 03-18-2017 04:38 PM

This may help also.

GO to

WBCCI
maint info
Howard's Tech Articles
Safe Towing Capacity

Dan_Rox 03-18-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ (Post 1924009)
If you go diesel watch payload even on 3/4 tons. Often it makes sense just to jump to 1 ton at that point. Not as much with gas engines as they weigh significantly less.

This is worth repeating. I was at the auto show last month comparing door stickers for payload. A 1/2 ton F-150 with an STX package, (a no frills basic truck) had over 1800 in payload capacity. A 3/4 ton GMC Denali with diesel and what looked like every available option had a payload of 1600 pounds. Many people think because they have a 3/4 ton they have plenty of payload capacity but are actually more overloaded than some 1/2 ton trucks.

dkottum 03-18-2017 05:03 PM

It's helpful to learn from the towing experts who have been in this business for two generations, over 45 years.

http://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/

leje 03-19-2017 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd (Post 1924219)
A 1/2 ton will do the job pulling a 28 but it's near the upper limit on pulling and payload. The 28 has almost a 1000 lb hitch weight and that doesn't leave much payload for other things in the truck. A 3/4 ton will do a better job towing on the Highway but it's not easy taking it to the supermarket. If you're going to unhitch and use it around town a lot I would recommend a 1/2 ton. If you're going back and forth Florida to Alaska then I'd get a 3/4 ton. Diesel is better for towing since it develops max torque at low RPM cruising speeds, and also because your MPG won't suffer as much while towing. You can get a diesel in the Ram 1500 and Ford F-150 is coming out with one in 2018. Otherwise you'll need to step up to a 3/4 ton for a diesel.

Excellent points. Although the half ton diesels are a CAFE play, they aren't made to tow heavy. Rather, they allow a half ton truck to get nearly 30 MPG.

leje 03-19-2017 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Rox (Post 1924270)
This is worth repeating. I was at the auto show last month comparing door stickers for payload. A 1/2 ton F-150 with an STX package, (a no frills basic truck) had over 1800 in payload capacity. A 3/4 ton GMC Denali with diesel and what looked like every available option had a payload of 1600 pounds. Many people think because they have a 3/4 ton they have plenty of payload capacity but are actually more overloaded than some 1/2 ton trucks.

My 2015 Denali, which is the same truck, older Duramax, has 2200 lbs payload. Does the new L5P weigh 600 lbs more than the LML?

AirstreamCSH 03-19-2017 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulken (Post 1924266)
This may help also.

GO to

WBCCI
maint info
Howard's Tech Articles
Safe Towing Capacity



Excellent post. Thank you.

aftermath 03-19-2017 10:37 AM

I tow my 25FB with a 2008 Tundra with a tow package. I have been very happy with this but.....there are some issues that need to be stated. First of all, the weight of the trailer is not an issue. The 5.7 is a brute and we do fine in the hills. The tongue weight will always be an issue with any half ton.

We travel light, just the two of us, no dogs and not a lot of extra stuff in the bed. We are under our ratings but not by much when it comes to payload. Someone mentioned feeling good about running at "90% capacity" and I am quite happy. The Tundra is a very well made half ton. I once loaded over 2000 pounds of green fire wood on the back and noticed that the springs were not even close to the stops. I weighed the load on the way home that day and would not recommend doing this to anyone. The point is that the suspension was up to it.

That said, we have been looking at getting a larger trailer. The 27FB is very close to ours in tongue weight so I would not hesitate pulling one of these. When I looked into the 28 stats I did see the heavier tongue weight. I feel that I would have to change TVs.

I would not rule out a 3/4 ton. Like many trucks there are lots of options out there for these and many will have ample payload ratings for the 28. Just my two cents. But then, I am not a big diesel fan either.

Dan_Rox 03-19-2017 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leje (Post 1924463)
My 2015 Denali, which is the same truck, older Duramax, has 2200 lbs payload. Does the new L5P weigh 600 lbs more than the LML?

I don't know the differences between your truck and the one I saw, but I would guess the majority weight difference is in additional options. Sunroof, power retracting running boards... all start to add up.

HeadWest 03-19-2017 01:34 PM

Keep in mind the real world, ready to tow tongue weights. The 27FB's carry additional weight forward with the outside storage compartment and weight under the bed going on the tongue. The 28's are the opposite with the outside storage and the bed storage in the rear. I would be willing to bet that if you weighed the tongue on a bunch of road ready 27's and 28's at a rally, they would be very similar tongue weight.

FWIW, I'm towing a 28 with a '13 F150 Echoboast, max tow and LT tires, propride hitch. It has plenty of power and is very stable, within capacities including payload and axle weights per several trips across scales. Love the engine and power, complaints have been with poor dealers, my sync and crappy service life out of brakes (this has also been true with not towing and my son's virtually same F150).

Outdoorjojo 03-19-2017 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Rox (Post 1924556)
I don't know the differences between your truck and the one I saw, but I would guess the majority weight difference is in additional options. Sunroof, power retracting running boards... all start to add up.



My 2016 2500 Denali Diesel has 2185lbs of payload. That's included sunroof, running boards....

MelGoddard 03-19-2017 06:48 PM

I see in this Forum that there are a number of writers here who are not familiar with the 'Readers Digest' version

Mergatroyd 03-20-2017 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leje (Post 1924458)
Excellent points. Although the half ton diesels are a CAFE play, they aren't made to tow heavy. Rather, they allow a half ton truck to get nearly 30 MPG.

You're right about the EcoDiesel being a small engine. The Ford F-150 diesel will probably not be much better. My diesel SUV has a more powerful engine than the EcoDiesel, and that kind of turns me off. But I do like the low-end torque of a diesel. When I was younger I wanted 5000 RPM. Now I prefer chugging along at 1800 RPM.

SCOTTinNJ 03-20-2017 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd (Post 1925008)
You're right about the EcoDiesel being a small engine. The Ford F-150 diesel will probably not be much better. My diesel SUV has a more powerful engine than the EcoDiesel, and that kind of turns me off. But I do like the low-end torque of a diesel. When I was younger I wanted 5000 RPM. Now I prefer chugging along at 1800 RPM.

The RAM is 3.0L. Ford has announced that theirs will also be 3.0L. No HP or torque figures have been released to my knowledge.

USAtraveler 03-20-2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leje (Post 1923982)
This payload comment is absolutely false. The Tundra is a half ton truck with half ton payload. The 2014 Tundra platinum I traded for my Denali HD had a payload of 1400 lbs. the Tundra has open c channel in the rear of the frame which is done to help the ride. However, it doesn't help stability towing large loads.

You may want to check your math, LeJe. 1400 lbs is just 100 lbs short of 3/4 ton. Your tricked out model gave up some payload for the crew cab style and other add-ons. But far from my claim that the Tundra is actually a 3/4 ton being "absolutely false", I was really being conservative. The larger Tundra first introduced at the February 2006 Chicago Auto Show featured towing capacity of up to 10,000 lb, and a payload capacity of over 2,000 lb (that's a full 1 ton, btw). Not every style of Tundra has the same payload or towing capacity, of course, but every 5.7 V8 Tundra comes equipped with a tow package which includes engine oil and transmission coolers, integrated trailer hitch, 4.30:1 axle ratio, and large braking hardware for increased fade resistance. The 5.7-liter V8 Tundra has a tow rating of 9,00010,400 lb depending on body style.
Plus the better reliability rating and resale value!:D

SCOTTinNJ 03-20-2017 06:33 PM

You can't really take 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton nomenclature literally. They are nominal at best.

MelGoddard 03-21-2017 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd (Post 1925008)
You're right about the EcoDiesel being a small engine. The Ford F-150 diesel will probably not be much better. My diesel SUV has a more powerful engine than the EcoDiesel, and that kind of turns me off. But I do like the low-end torque of a diesel. When I was younger I wanted 5000 RPM. Now I prefer chugging along at 1800 RPM.



But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

USAtraveler 03-22-2017 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services......

The ancillary equipment on some engines is designed to work at lower engine RPM's. Driving around town at 30-35 mph, the engine in my Tacoma V6 is only turning around 1500 RPMs. All the ancillary stuff does everything its supposed to at that speed. At 2500 RPMs my truck is doing somewhere around 75 mph. If I had to wait for the engine to get turning at 2500 RPM before the ancillary equipment started working properly, I'd be in deep doo-doo.:D

SpletKay06 03-22-2017 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

It's called engineering the new rams use an electric cooling fan and electric power steering. Heck they even have electric heaters built into the dash for faster warm air in the winter. Most alternators produce full output at a high idle 1200-1500 rpm. So really there is no reason to run your engine at 2500 plus rpm if you don't need the power.

leje 03-22-2017 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAtraveler (Post 1925080)
You may want to check your math, LeJe. 1400 lbs is just 100 lbs short of 3/4 ton. Your tricked out model gave up some payload for the crew cab style and other add-ons. But far from my claim that the Tundra is actually a 3/4 ton being "absolutely false", I was really being conservative. The larger Tundra first introduced at the February 2006 Chicago Auto Show featured towing capacity of up to 10,000 lb, and a payload capacity of over 2,000 lb (that's a full 1 ton, btw). Not every style of Tundra has the same payload or towing capacity, of course, but every 5.7 V8 Tundra comes equipped with a tow package which includes engine oil and transmission coolers, integrated trailer hitch, 4.30:1 axle ratio, and large braking hardware for increased fade resistance. The 5.7-liter V8 Tundra has a tow rating of 9,00010,400 lb depending on body style.
Plus the better reliability rating and resale value!:D

You are technically correct, a fair point. HOWEVER, in relative terms, the Tundra is no more capable than any other "half ton" in terms of payload. I owned one. I loved it. But, I got rid of it because it lacked the capability I needed to tow a 27FB international and my precious cargo.

I just didn't want anyone to get the impression the Tundra is something it's not. What it is, is a great "half ton" truck.

Mergatroyd 03-22-2017 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

The EcoBoost is indeed an impressive engine. But I like the feel of my diesel, especially while towing. It develops max torque at 1600-2000 RPM. On the highway at 65 MPH it's at 1800 RPM, and it hardly ever has to downshift to maintain speed on interstate highway hills.

rostam 03-22-2017 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1925654)
But how will your ancilliary services operate properly at that low RPM?
Your generator, water pump, air conditioner compressor, power steering, etc., all need some speed to work properly.
For example, your generator, (Alt.) needs speed to make electricity, and the pulley fan to draw cooling air through it.
I prefer to run my engines at around 2500 RPM, to provide proper speed to the services, without losing gas milage due to crankcase windage and all that stuff.
My Ecoboost engine gives me max torque at 2500, which is pretty neat, and the gas milage is acceptable.

Look after your equipment, it will look after you.

Poor car manufacturers. Up to now, many folks in this forum have been incessantly claiming that car companies do not know anything about towing. Now, you are taking it a step further saying that car manufacturers do not even know how to build a car -- their core competency. FYI, our diesel SUV generates max torque at 1600 RPM. My guess is that the engine stays under 2000 RPM for 90% of the time. All the ancillary services work fine as they are engineered to do.

IAMGLG 03-23-2017 10:12 AM

It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

MelGoddard 03-23-2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1926254)
It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

Good for you! Somebody who does have a clue.:D
Nice read, thank you.

MelGoddard 03-25-2017 07:12 PM

A number of 'posters' here have commented on how things are 'engineered' to work as they do. However..........
There are a number of us 'grey haired' mechanics who look at some of these designs, and wonder; 'What were these guys thinking when they came up with 'this' abortion?'

I can't speak for everyone, so I'll use me as an example:
I'm in my late 70s, have now owned 11 vehicles since 1961, (the Ford), and over the years have spent far too much money on car repairs caused by poor designs.
The Austin, two Volvos, are the prime reason that I could never afford to obtain a commercial pilot's license, so I had to settle for Aircraft mechanic. (AME)
The list goes on, up to a Mercury Capri that lasted me over 300,000 Kliks, without any untowards costs. Then I went to Subaru. There were, and still are, untoward expenses there. (Eg. Take a look at the 'U-joints' on the drive shaft.)

I have written up an 11 page document of the vehicles that I have owned, and how they performed.
If you were to read it, you may ask: why didn't I just get a horse?
In hindsite, a good question; but I needed the cars for work.

(I had the bills to prove my costs, but tossed them out when I moved here last year.)


I even have the same problem with the Ford, that I have had with every other vehicle; the inability of the engine to warm up fast enough to defrost the window when cold soaked overnight in the Winter.
The company's answer? "Drive it slowly to warm up"; a good trick when the windows are iced over, and needs a jackhammer to remove it..

Only Toyota got it right with the Camry. It warms up pretty fast.

Contacting the engineers, (if possible) from the various companys, and showing proof of the problem is like talking to a blank wall. It seems that they don't drive their own products.

Where I worked (and retired from), we had a saying: "You can always tell an Engineer, but you can't tell him anything!"

(I'll bet this one opens a 'frisky' dialogue.)

MWL530 03-27-2017 07:30 PM

Many thanks to everyone!!
 
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

cabinetmaker 03-27-2017 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

That's not much truck for a 28'...be safe out there!

slowmover 03-28-2017 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1927314)
A number of 'posters' here have commented on how things are 'engineered' to work as they do. However..........
There are a number of us 'grey haired' mechanics who look at some of these designs, and wonder; 'What were these guys thinking when they came up with 'this' abortion?'

I can't speak for everyone, so I'll use me as an example:
I'm in my late 70s, have now owned 11 vehicles since 1961, (the Ford), and over the years have spent far too much money on car repairs caused by poor designs.
The Austin, two Volvos, are the prime reason that I could never afford to obtain a commercial pilot's license, so I had to settle for Aircraft mechanic. (AME)
The list goes on, up to a Mercury Capri that lasted me over 300,000 Kliks, without any untowards costs. Then I went to Subaru. There were, and still are, untoward expenses there. (Eg. Take a look at the 'U-joints' on the drive shaft.)

I have written up an 11 page document of the vehicles that I have owned, and how they performed.
If you were to read it, you may ask: why didn't I just get a horse?
In hindsite, a good question; but I needed the cars for work.

(I had the bills to prove my costs, but tossed them out when I moved here last year.)


I even have the same problem with the Ford, that I have had with every other vehicle; the inability of the engine to warm up fast enough to defrost the window when cold soaked overnight in the Winter.
The company's answer? "Drive it slowly to warm up"; a good trick when the windows are iced over, and needs a jackhammer to remove it..

Only Toyota got it right with the Camry. It warms up pretty fast.

Contacting the engineers, (if possible) from the various companys, and showing proof of the problem is like talking to a blank wall. It seems that they don't drive their own products.

Where I worked (and retired from), we had a saying: "You can always tell an Engineer, but you can't tell him anything!"

(I'll bet this one opens a 'frisky' dialogue.)



Rocket Science: dual engine block heaters. A cover for the passenger cab.

Better yet, a garage.

tjdonahoe 03-28-2017 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

I believe you will find after bit you have too lite of a tow vehicle, my neighbor did the same, 1 year later he has a 2500 duramax......I do have passport America, for the past 8 years, I do like it ,it more than pays for itself...nice travels...:D

IAMGLG 03-28-2017 10:30 AM

You will do just fine with that assembly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MWL530 (Post 1928247)
I decided on purchasing a new GMC Crew Cab Z1 4WD 1500 Serria. It has the braking for the trailer, xtra towing capacity, shocks etc. Its a V8 5.3.
I hope this set up with the 2016 International Signature 28 suits my needs.
Most of my travels will be in the AZ to Fl states not much with the mountains like CO.
I truly appreciate all of the thoughtful and knowledgeable comments from each of you. Now if anyone cares to advise regarding the various clubs like Passport America, TT, etc.....I am interested in the pro and cons.
My best to you all!!!
Michael

Having "been there done that" with two "trucks" on my 28 foot International (a 2001 1500 Suburban and a 2006 Cadillac Escalade ESD) you will have no problem going anywhere in North America with that rig. I have a Reese equalizer cam hitch and have put more miles on the rig than I can count. Drive 55 to 60 and smell the flowers along the way. You'll be fine.

MelGoddard 03-29-2017 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 1928403)
Rocket Science: dual engine block heaters. A cover for the passenger cab.

Better yet, a garage.

And where does one plug in a twenty mile long extention cord, or find a garage when parked at roads end out in 'the Bush'?
:lol:

Moflash 03-29-2017 09:04 PM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
Some of these analogies on Diesel engines are only partially correct.A diesel does have a flat torque curve over a low rom operating range from idle to approximately 3500 rpm where as a gasoline engine builds torque as rpm increases and usually produces the most torque at approx 5500 rpm in most cases.A much narrower torque curve.The new computerized multi speed transmissions
are designed to keep the proper rpm for maximizing torque when pulling.The result is more downshifting and running at high rpm to maintain speed on hills and on ramps when trying to merge into traffic.

The benefit of pulling a load with diesel is it develops torque (pulling force) at low rpms (500) and maintains it all the way thru its operating range.That is why locomotives and Semi trucks are Diesel engines.
Go up a steep hill and it seldom needs to downshift or search for a lower gear in order to maintain constant speed.Diesel engines produce much more torque than gasoline engines for instance the new 2017 Ford 6.7 TD puts out 440hp and 925 ft lbs of pulling torque while its 6.2 gasoline variant 385 hp and 435 ft lbs of pulling torque.
There is a big difference in the towing experience with a diesel vs gas engine.

Pulling a 28ft with a 5.3 v8 GMC 1500 will on the marginal scale as stated in this thread by the people that own one and have already tried .As you too will experience on your own. Safe travels

IAMGLG 03-30-2017 10:43 AM

Horespower is horsepower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash (Post 1929300)
Some of these analogies on Diesel engines are only partially correct.A diesel does have a flat torque curve over a low rom operating range from idle to approximately 3500 rpm where as a gasoline engine builds torque as rpm increases and usually produces the most torque at approx 5500 rpm in most cases.A much narrower torque curve.The new computerized multi speed transmissions
are designed to keep the proper rpm for maximizing torque when pulling.The result is more downshifting and running at high rpm to maintain speed on hills and on ramps when trying to merge into traffic.

The benefit of pulling a load with diesel is it develops torque (pulling force) at low rpms (500) and maintains it all the way thru its operating range.That is why locomotives and Semi trucks are Diesel engines.
Go up a steep hill and it seldom needs to downshift or search for a lower gear in order to maintain constant speed.Diesel engines produce much more torque than gasoline engines for instance the new 2017 Ford 6.7 TD puts out 440hp and 925 ft lbs of pulling torque while its 6.2 gasoline variant 385 hp and 435 ft lbs of pulling torque.
There is a big difference in the towing experience with a diesel vs gas engine.

Pulling a 28ft with a 5.3 v8 GMC 1500 will on the marginal scale as stated in this thread by the people that own one and have already tried .As you too will experience on your own. Safe travels

I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car or trailer.

Moflash 03-30-2017 09:09 PM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929525]I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car


I also pulled our 28ft International CCD with a
Equivalent new 2010 F150 SuperCrew 5.4 Max Tow package 5.5 ft box with 3:55 axel. Pulled approximately 15,000 miles and while it could pull the trailer I could tell it's engine,suspension and brakes were taxed and near their design limits.

I traded it for a new 2012 F350 Lariat 6.7 turbo diesel Supercrew 8ft box with 3.55 axel.Wow complete change in the towing experience.Rode smoother,pulled easier with less gear changes.Much safer when merging and lane changing.Much more stable in all conditions.Mountain grades are not a problem with this truck.Pulled 30,000 miles

Traded for 2015 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum Supercrew 8ft box with 3:55 axel.
Big changes it was more powerful,quieter and even more pleasurable to travel in.Pulled approximately 35,000 miles

Ordered yesterday 2017 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum with Ultimate tow package ,3:55 axel and 8ft box.

Will not go back to a 1/2 ton platform gasoline powered tow vehicle to pull our 28ft International .If you are just a occasional short trip weekend Airstreamer it might work for you.But for people who want a tow vehicle that is truly purpose built and designed to pull a heavy tongue weight 28ft Airstream there is no equal to the Superduty platform with a turbo diesel.
Just my experience.

.They build different trucks for different applications.Some of the comments on this forum regarding the newer diesel trucks comes from lack of knowledge and understanding that comes with experience.

IAMGLG 03-31-2017 01:46 AM

Not satisfied with any tow vehicle?
 
[QUOTE=Moflash;1929782]
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1929525)
I have pulled a 28foot CCD 28 international all over the USA and Canada with the engine you describe above with a 4 speed transmission and never lacked for pulling power, even with a trailer and 1500 suburbans (two on them, one disguised as an Escalade), both with a high speed rear end (3.73 as I recall, not a 4.11). fully loaded. The only challenges I ever had were in the very steep grades of the back roads of the Vermont mountains, but those too were handled. With the 6 speed or higher transmissions you have now you have even torque CAPACITY at the road because the gasoline engine is faster up INTO IT'S HORSEPOWER RANGE. So what if you have 1,000 foot pounds of torque available to you if you only need 300 foot pounds to accelerate the load. We are talking trucks and trailers here not locomotives and ships. All you need is what is required to do the job and, as a sidebar, gasoline engines these days with their fuel injection engines, properly maintained (like changing the oil periodically, will last you as long as you want to own the car


I also pulled our 28ft International CCD with a
Equivalent new 2010 F150 SuperCrew 5.4 Max Tow package 5.5 ft box with 3:55 axel. Pulled approximately 15,000 miles and while it could pull the trailer I could tell it's engine,suspension and brakes were taxed and near their design limits.

I traded it for a new 2012 F350 Lariat 6.7 turbo diesel Supercrew 8ft box with 3.55 axel.Wow complete change in the towing experience.Rode smoother,pulled easier with less gear changes.Much safer when merging and lane changing.Much more stable in all conditions.Mountain grades are not a problem with this truck.Pulled 30,000 miles

Traded for 2015 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum Supercrew 8ft box with 3:55 axel.
Big changes it was more powerful,quieter and even more pleasurable to travel in.Pulled approximately 35,000 miles

Ordered yesterday 2017 F350 6.7 Turbo diesel Platinum with Ultimate tow package ,3:55 axel and 8ft box.

Will not go back to a 1/2 ton platform gasoline powered tow vehicle to pull our 28ft International .If you are just a occasional short trip weekend Airstreamer it might work for you.But for people who want a tow vehicle that is truly purpose built and designed to pull a heavy tongue weight 28ft Airstream there is no equal to the Superduty platform with a turbo diesel.
Just my experience.

.They build different trucks for different applications.Some of the comments on this forum regarding the newer diesel trucks comes from lack of knowledge and understanding that comes with experience.

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.

tjdonahoe 03-31-2017 06:05 AM

In above article concerning the gear ratios, 4.11 is lower than 3.73...moons ago a now decieced friend pulled a tandem axle reefer loaded with swinging meat from a packing plant here in Billings to LA,Cal.The power unit was a Chevrolet with a 6 cylinder gas engine, it took 7 days to round it, 2 men, non stop..now it is done in 1/2 the time with twice the load with 6 cylinder Diesel engines...progress ...:D

Moflash 03-31-2017 09:05 PM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929842]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash (Post 1929782)

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.



I trade every two to three years to minimize the cost of Airstreaming.Driving a $50k-$78k tow vehicle into the ground until its value is next to nothing is not in my idea as a good financial decision.Plus we don't enjoy traveling in a worn out vehicle knowing we can be standing on the side of the road facing a huge repair bill.Been there done that.
My trucks are cleaner than the new one when I go to pick it up.I do all the scheduled maintenance at my Ford dealer so they give me maximum value when I trade.It costs me very little to have a new tow vehicle every two to three years.
Regarding power, I choose a vehicle that is best suited and designed for the job at hand.
You stating that it's not needed to have this much torque and power.But I choose to maintain the posted speed on mountain inclines and to merge safely onto a interstate with traffic exceeding 70mph.I do not enjoy being the guy holding up traffic or merging into 70mph traffic at 45mph because I chose a anemic underpowered overloaded tow vehicle to prove a point.
I threw away the Chinese wheel bearings and Goodyear Marathon "trailer tires" and installed 16' Michelin Ribs and upgraded the wheel bearings to USA made Timken bearings.The axels on a Airstream are more than adequate for higher speeds than 60mph.I also over service my Airstream and maintain it properly.Add a AirSafe hitch and the trailer is very manageable and stable with the right tow vehicle.I am a firm believer in common sense and maintain a safe distance from other vehicles.Road conditions pay a important role in higher speed towing also.

I am very satisfied as stated with my tow vehicles but what you and others don't seem to understand is vehicle technology evolves quickly and prices escalate each year.But if you order the right new vehicle with the right options and color,take better care of it than the next guy that u can keep up with technology and drive a new luxury tow vehicle every 2-3 years economically.Or you can fall behind and drive a worn out vehicle that has little or no value when trading time comes(and it will come) then hit the hip for $50k -$78k
So if a new black F350 SuperCrew with two Hobie kayaks and a CanAm atv pulling a 28ft Airstream passes you as your going 45mph up that mountain pass please know that I do respect your choices.Its just not my thing.......Safe travels

slowmover 04-02-2017 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelGoddard (Post 1929040)
And where does one plug in a twenty mile long extention cord, or find a garage when parked at roads end out in 'the Bush'?
:lol:

No one in northern Canada ever solved that problem, right? Experience back into WWII available for your education. Internet makes it easy. But since you've a history of choosing lemons, . . .

slowmover 04-02-2017 08:55 AM

[QUOTE=IAMGLG;1929842]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moflash (Post 1929782)

It looks to me from your purchase of 3 or 4 tow vehicles in 6 years or so that you weren't satisfied with any of the trucks you have purchased. It comes down to how you drive and how much acceleration you think you need. I have 150,000 miles on my trailer and over 200,000 miles on each of my "1500's", I drive 55 to 60 and settle for 45 up steep inclines like found in coming out of Yellowstone. The tires (and axles and suspension) on the CCD 28 are trailer tires and shouldn't be driven over 60 mph. You may well be able to accelerate to 75 mph in less than 7 seconds with the various rigs you have described but my experience (and many others who have rigs similar to mine) says that the 1500s will do a very good and safe job. On the original thread, I don't know why one would need a 6 or 8 speed transmission on a diesel engine of the same horsepower as a gasoline engine for the same application unless you wanted to get to 75 mph in less time, the diesel doesn't need as many gears as a gas engine to deliver the same torque to the drive wheels because of it's low speed torque capabilities and electrical motors, (unless field weakened DC or higher frequency than base frequency - AC) give constant torque throughout their speed range, would be even better.

Wasting your breath. Or cramping typing fingers. Doesn't understand money or what constitutes "safe". Everything bought the past forty years was delivered by OTR trucks slow on the grades and slow in entering highways, etc. Poor brakes and incredibly unstable for those who've not driven them.

"Safe" isn't part of power versus load with these little trailers. Being frightened by new experience is common with RVers closed to skill acquisition. Tail-chasing bad assumptions is the result.

Suspension stability, steering and braking are what count. Power hasn't ever really mattered with these trailers. It was more than adequate in 1967 or 2017. The advances that matter have been elsewhere.

The confusion soothed by increased isolation is the fig leaf.

The trailer by design is "better" than a pickup. That's the problem to address. Matching superior to inferior is a fools errand. Where a pickup is an income-producing asset is its justification. On every other score its a loser.

Note that the legions of pickup lovers haven't ever used a car to tow. Drill down to find out if even so it had a decent lash up. As 90% didn't, good luck. Absence of evidence does not a case make. Look hard enough and it can be found. Of course, an understanding of basic physics will also do.

Everyone starts somewhere.

Moflash 04-02-2017 05:27 PM

[QUOTE=slowmover;1930770]
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1929842)



Wasting your breath. Or cramping typing fingers. Doesn't understand money or what constitutes "safe". Everything bought the past forty years was delivered by OTR trucks slow on the grades and slow in entering highways, etc. Poor brakes and incredibly unstable for those who've not driven them.



"Safe" isn't part of power versus load with these little trailers. Being frightened by new experience is common with RVers closed to skill acquisition. Tail-chasing bad assumptions is the result.



Suspension stability, steering and braking are what count. Power hasn't ever really mattered with these trailers. It was more than adequate in 1967 or 2017. The advances that matter have been elsewhere.



The confusion soothed by increased isolation is the fig leaf.



The trailer by design is "better" than a pickup. That's the problem to address. Matching superior to inferior is a fools errand. Where a pickup is an income-producing asset is its justification. On every other score its a loser.



Note that the legions of pickup lovers haven't ever used a car to tow. Drill down to find out if even so it had a decent lash up. As 90% didn't, good luck. Absence of evidence does not a case make. Look hard enough and it can be found. Of course, an understanding of basic physics will also do.



Everyone starts somewhere.



What are you smoking?? lol

MelGoddard 04-02-2017 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowmover (Post 1930759)
No one in northern Canada ever solved that problem, right? Experience back into WWII available for your education. Internet makes it easy. But since you've a history of choosing lemons, . . .

Go back to sleep!:p:zorro::boxing:

tjdonahoe 04-03-2017 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1926254)
It may be obvious but the reason companies are going to multi-speed transmissions is to get the engine to run faster to get it into it's most efficient speed. The old slog about diesels having constant torque across a wide speed range, while correct, is mitigated by gasoline engines with multi-speed transmissions. Diesels work great on boats and locomotives where no transmissions are involved because of their near flat and constant torque characteristics across their speed range. Gasoline engines with multispeed transmissions effectively put out the same torque as a diesel engine with lesser geared transmissions.

I have not seen any big gas engines in the big trucks moving freight across the country for quit a few years, torque? My ram is at 800 ft lbs, my cat in the KW is at 1850 ft lbs torque, explain this...:D

IAMGLG 04-04-2017 05:23 PM

Or possibly a 1/2 track as huse by the Germans in WW2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlM (Post 1923805)
I say a 2500 or a 3500 diesel or ford if you want to be safe.

To the gentleman who trades his diesel truck every other year: Bought a used 2001, 1500 Suburban in 2004 with 49,000 miles on it for $29,000. Still own it today with 203,000 on it with no significant repairs. If I sold it today I'd probably get $4,000 for it. Works out to $1,550 a year depreciation. Also, bought a 2004 Cadillac Escalade ESV with 50,000 on it for $30,000 in 2008. At 200,000 miles on it I probably could get $6,000 for it today. Works out to $1,850 per year depreciation. Don't plan to get rid of wither one till 250,000 on either. Both car's leather is in very good shape and work as new. How does that compare to the depreciation lost by trading in your truck every other year? I can easily afford any "truck" I want but I don't know why I would want to. As I said earlier (and I have been involved in life cycling engine test stands, both hot and cold) given the fuel injection "carburetion" on gasoline engines, and using synthetic oil, there is no reason they can't last hundreds of thousands of miles. And, the receiver on a 1500 Suburban and a 2500 Suburban are rated the same....and it isn't 500 pounds.

IAMGLG 04-04-2017 05:44 PM

Or possibly a 1/2 track as used by the Germans in WW2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlM (Post 1923805)
I say a 2500 or a 3500 diesel or ford if you want to be safe.

To the gentleman who trades his diesel truck every other year: Bought a used 2001, 1500 Suburban in 2004 with 49,000 miles on it for $29,000. Still own it today with 203,000 on it with no significant repairs. If I sold it today I'd probably get $4,000 for it. Works out to $1,550 a year depreciation. Also, bought a 2004 Cadillac Escalade ESV with 50,000 on it for $30,000 in 2008. At 200,000 miles on it I probably could get $6,000 for it today. Works out to $1,850 per year depreciation. Don't plan to get rid of wither one till 250,000 on either. Both car's leather is in very good shape and work as new. How does that compare to the depreciation lost by trading in your truck every other year? I can easily afford any "truck" I want but I don't know why I would want to. As I said earlier (and I have been involved in life cycling engine test stands, both hot and cold) given the fuel injection "carburetion" on gasoline engines there is no reason they can't last hundreds of thousands of miles. And, the receiver on a 1500 Suburban and a 2500 Suburban are rated the same....and it isn't 500 pounds, try 1500....with a service factor of 1.25.

airwoody 04-05-2017 11:06 PM

Was that Guy going 45 mph in my 28 ft CCD towed by 1500 Chevy Suburban - not fun being that guy. Felt unsafe and decided it wasn't worth my family's safety. When I got home I ordered a 2017 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali

IAMGLG 04-06-2017 12:27 AM

It was the Raton Pass
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by airwoody (Post 1932512)
Was that Guy going 45 mph in my 28 ft CCD towed by 1500 Chevy Suburban - not fun being that guy. Felt unsafe and decided it wasn't worth my family's safety. When I got home I ordered a 2017 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali

I drive 55 to 60 because it is safe. I could easily drive 65 to 75 in either my Suburban or my Escalade all day long, both cars have the power to do this. It gives the rubberneckers a chance to look me over. If you choose to drive a tow vehicle that weighs less than 1/2 the weight of the trailer being towed at 110 feet a second have at it, but please stay away from me. I suspect many put their rigs on cruise control at 75 and dream away, not me; I like to smell the roses along the way and actually see the scenery. The 45 was at Raton pass, and I passed a lot of tractor trailers along the way, and I can take any hill at 55 to 60 no problem and pass more tractor trailers.

xrvr 04-06-2017 04:27 AM

The difference in technology between my 06 dodge pickup and the new ones is astounding. Making it wors is my truck has no power door locks or windows, no cruise control or engine braking, a simple radio and a tow haul mode that just changes the shift points and can lock out od. Two different worlds. Too old and broke to get a new one.

airwoody 04-06-2017 09:21 AM

Before I got the AS I read alot about TV on this forum. and was planning to get a 23ft to match the capabilities of my 02 1500 Sub which has the Auto ride tow pacakage. One thing I remembered and was guilty of it was you will justify the TV you have. When I got the 28 I was told the Sub would be fine which it is, but pulling on grades could not keep up with the flow of traffic. On the way to Sedona AZ I had trucks with double trailers passing me with my rig straining to maintain speed. If I recall the GVWR on the CCD is 7600 on the Sub is rated for 7300 which is pushing limits. Oh I drive 55 live in CA and enjoy the smell of roses but I don't want to be pushing up daisies.
My question is what TV would you choose if you could have anything you want?

Mergatroyd 04-06-2017 10:03 AM

For towing I want a Freightliner. For daily driver I want a golf cart. This is my dilemma.

AirstreamCSH 04-06-2017 11:54 PM

Toyota Sequoia. Finest vehicle ever owned. Tundra is he pickup version.
I would have either but with a payload capacity north of 1800#
Got an F250 because What I wanted wasn't made.

USAtraveler 04-07-2017 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMGLG (Post 1932524)
I drive 55 to 60 because it is safe. I could easily drive 65 to 75 in either my Suburban or my Escalade all day long, both cars have the power to do this. It gives the rubberneckers a chance to look me over. If you choose to drive a tow vehicle that weighs less than 1/2 the weight of the trailer being towed at 110 feet a second have at it, but please stay away from me. I suspect many put their rigs on cruise control at 75 and dream away, not me; I like to smell the roses along the way and actually see the scenery. The 45 was at Raton pass, and I passed a lot of tractor trailers along the way, and I can take any hill at 55 to 60 no problem and pass more tractor trailers.

Yikes! Someone who uses logic and common sense...what a rarity.

Mergatroyd 04-07-2017 05:40 AM

I, too, would like to tow the 28 with my SUV. Then when I get to where I'm going I will have my daily driver. I know people are towing the 28 with a lot less than this, but when I plug the numbers into my loading spreadsheet I can't stay within the car's payload limits without shifting all my cargo to the back of the trailer and running light on the tongue. I can get I little more than the minimum 10% hitch weight if I do this balancing act, but I'd feel better with 12%. 1/2 ton pickups are only marginally better but I would still have to worry about load distribution to stay within spec. The 28 really calls for a 3/4 ton, but now it's a problem for the wife to drive it around town every day.

FCStreamer 04-07-2017 07:56 AM

What vehicle to tow a 2016 FC 28..
 
I disagree. You need the 3/4 ton if you can't manage to stay within the payload limits of the SUV, yes. For most couples this is imminently doable. I even have have a EU2000 generator on the tongue of my 30' AS and I am under a couple hundred pounds of my rear axel rating.

I also want to bring my golf cart around. For THAT I will need a 250/350. But short of that a 1/2 ton and many SUVs are perfectly SAFE and fine, even up the Ike Gauntlet.

I know a lot of people drive big trucks daily. Good for them. I can't. My condo won't allow it. So I pull with a SUV and like happily in my condo. Best of both worlds.

Mergatroyd 04-07-2017 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCStreamer (Post 1933066)
I disagree. You need the 3/4 ton if you can't manage to stay within the payload limits of the SUV, yes. For most couples this is imminently doable. I even have have a EU2000 generator on the tongue of my 30' AS and I am under a couple hundred pounds of my rear axel rating.

I also want to bring my golf cart around. For THAT I will need a 250/350. But short of that a 1/2 ton and many SUVs are perfectly SAFE and fine, even up the Ike Gauntlet.

I know a lot of people drive big trucks daily. Good for them. I can't. My condo won't allow it. So I pull with a SUV and like happily in my condo. Best of both worlds.

What does your door label indicate for max payload for the Escalade?

If I go by axle ratings I should be able to load 1796 lbs. If I go by the gross vehicle weight rating I should be able to carry 1466 lbs. But my door label says do not exceed 1014 lbs.


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