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-   -   TV decision for new FC 25 ... help, my head is spinning! (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/tv-decision-for-new-fc-25-help-my-head-is-spinning-162452.html)

rbaldwin 02-07-2017 11:49 PM

TV decision for new FC 25 ... help, my head is spinning!
 
Weíve ordered our new FC 25 RB. Actually, that was quite enjoyable and the easy part! But now, my head is spinning regarding the appropriate tow vehicle choice - preferably a 1/2 ton (not a 3/4). Itís just my wife and myself wanderlusting with relatively light loads. Iíve vetted the big American four at multiple dealerships: 1) F-150 Lariat or Platinum trims (3.5L V-6 EB/10 speed); 2) Chevy LTZ; 3) GMC Sierra Denali (both Chevy or GMC would be 6.2L EcoTech3); 4) Ram 1500 Laramie or Limited (5.7L Hemi). I prefer gas. Iíve poured over your many threads on this forum and other TV inquires initiated by newbies such as myself regarding these subjects. So many opinions shared and much expertise! Together, with my own study, Iím aware now of the principle discriminators and criteria, i.e., tow capacity; TV payload; TV and AS GW limits, HP/torque; axel ratios; technology/safety; WD hitches/sway control, etc. So Ö can anyone finally offer me a succinct and compelling ďrank orderingĒ of the four brands above or a methodology to help me focus in on the best choice and, at the very least, eliminate some on my list. I want to build and order right away and presume that I will exact the very best rig from whichever brand I make this $$ purchase. In advance, thank you for your input!

jcl 02-08-2017 12:27 AM

Five different people will give you five different answers. This isn't like years back, when there were good vehicles, fair vehicles, and bad vehicles. They are all pretty good. Five answers, because you listed four vehicles, and someone will advise you to get a 3/4 ton before long. More than five answers if you expand to consider Toyota, et al.

I would ensure that you have a reasonable payload capacity in the TV. That may be more of a challenge with the Ram. It can certainly be done, but the reported payloads seem to be lower.

Many seem to like the Chev/GM with the big V8. I wouldn't go with that powertrain myself. I am sure the truck is fine.

I would go F150, Ecoboost, Lariat to get a larger payload. Supercab, for some storage space in the cab. But it is all going to come down to a popularity contest.

SeaLevel 02-08-2017 06:43 AM

You got the Ford vote, so now it's time for the Chevy/GMC vote. Just make sure you go with the Max Trailering (NHT) package to get the better payload capacity.

I'm sure they are all good trucks, so as long as the truck specs meet your needs, it just comes down to your preference for looks, comfort, etc.

RamRider 02-08-2017 07:45 AM

I recommend that you get the one you like, My preference is the Ram Hemi, plenty of power and decent MPG towing or not towing, but picking a TV is very personal you should make this choice based on your preferences.
I will throw this out, last week I talked to a new owner of a Nissan 5.0 diesel with all of the options it was an amazing TV, just starting out I would recommend that you throw one of these in the mix before you lock in your final choice.
That should add some confusion, have fun!

dkottum 02-08-2017 08:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I think they are all very, very good these days. We noted a warning in our Airstream Owners Manual to avoid trucks with too heavy spring rate, it will be better for us and our Airstream.

We also noted the late model Ram trucks have full coil (or air) suspension for the softest ride and a little better lateral stability than leaf springs. We noted favoring soft ride also limits payload capacity when hauling or towing without a weight distribution hitch, there is then a good chance of overloading the rear axle and too light a front axle for good control and braking. When we use a quality weight distribution hitch and setup we can load the truck's axles evenly and within their rated capacity, and distribute 10-20% of our payload to the trailer axles.

The Ram comes with an efficient gas Hemi or turbo diesel (the diesel currently under ambulance chaser lawyer and EPA scrutiny) engines and a smooth 8-speed transmission. For towing a mid-size Airstream definitely choose the 3.92 axle, more power on the drive wheels, better engine braking, and higher combined tow rating.

The Ram has a comfortable ride and also comfortable seats. So we bought a Hemi and towed our Airstream all over the country with it many times. After 50,000 miles with zero problems we bought another, this one with the smooth super efficient and powerful turbo diesel. Again, zero problems and great comfort, we love it.

Don't underestimate the importance of weight distribution systems, they are the difference in a good, safe towing vehicle and one that is not so good and safe. We used two different hitches highly recommended by others, and finally spent the money on the ProPride/Hensley design. It is the only weight distribution design that eliminates transfer of trailer yaw (sway) forces to the truck's steering axle, rather it projects the pivot point forward to the truck's rear axle like a fifth wheel or semi trailer where any yaw forces are stopped.

All of the truck's mentioned plus a couple of others are excellent. Looking into the details and how we use our truck favored the Ram 1500 for us. It also looks good.

lsbrodsky 02-08-2017 08:30 AM

One point not mentioned, but is a consideration for me. Will you spend most of your time near home or will you be on the road all of the time? The reason I ask is truck service. All of my truck service, so far, has been at my local dealer. Where we are, those in the know, put Ford and RAM lower on the list because of service. Both our Chevy and GMC dealers get very high marks for service.

Larry

dkottum 02-08-2017 08:39 AM

Can't comment on dealer service, never needed anything but oil changes in the five years we had our Rams, and that's gone well. We did need a new main bearing seal and alternator in our 2006 Tundra and that also went well.

Bob662 02-08-2017 09:21 AM

Also consider the axle load ratings of your candidate trucks. Some consider this even more important than the payload rating.

dkottum 02-08-2017 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob662 (Post 1909371)
Also consider the axle load ratings of your candidate trucks. Some consider this even more important than the payload rating.

For sure, I've seen broken axles but never a broken payload.

Leon Wilkins 02-08-2017 11:53 AM

Hi. I bought the same AS last August (2017 FC FB 25') and a 2016 F-150 with 3.5L EB and Max towing pkg and trailer back up assist. That rig has gotten me out of some hairy situations. I love the Lariat pkg for comfort. Towing milage is 16.5, but power is great with 3.55:1 ratio. So my vote is your option 1).
Leon

planosteve 02-08-2017 12:20 PM

I purchased a 23FB two years ago, and tried to tow with my F150, 5.4L V8. Did not have enough torque in that engine. I am now driving a 2014 Toyota Tundra 5.7L. It has torque to spare.

Good luck.

Urbanologist 02-08-2017 12:23 PM

Of these: 1) F-150 Lariat or Platinum trims (3.5L V-6 EB/10 speed); 2) Chevy LTZ; 3) GMC Sierra Denali (both Chevy or GMC would be 6.2L EcoTech3); 4) Ram 1500 Laramie or Limited (5.7L Hemi)....

I'd ask this question: Is this vehicle going to be a daily driver. If so, I'd select based upon comfort, mileage, and Consumer Reports/J. D. Powers guidance.

My daily driver is a 2003 Avalon XLS; my towing is done with a 2009 5.7L Tundra Limited (short bed). LOVE IT! It handled my 22' Sport AND 34' Panamerica (without a problem!). So, get whatever YOU will love driving. Just make sure your hitch and braking assist are up to the task when needed!!

thiel 02-08-2017 12:54 PM

What I found was that any online discussion of towing vehicles eventually descends into the realm of religious debate. Devotees of the Ram, Tundra Tautologies, F-Series Fanatics… and even the titanic thoughts of Nissan “heavy halfers” weigh in the debate eventually.

Here’s the thing: psychology tells us that people want to think they’ve made good decisions—and they tend to only remember the positive in even bad relationships. (Wikipedia the "endowment effect" and the "positivity effect" if you’re trying to understand why you stayed with that last steady well past his/her expiration date. The opposite of these things is something called buyer’s remorse.)

Most online discussions compare the merits of specific vehicle models, brands, and years—and that isn’t very helpful since you’re stuck looking at a zillion options and a zillion biases. After MANY hours of comparing vehicles, options, weights, and measures, my analysis crystalized into three—and only three—critical questions that you need to ask yourself (and your auto dealer):

1) Will it pull it?

2) Will it stop it?

3) Can it carry the load?


If the answer is yes to all three, then you’ve got a suitable tow vehicle.

Seem too simple? Hear me out.

Will it pull it? This is a question of horsepower and torque, and it’s summarized nicely in the “tow ratings” of various vehicles. Tow ratings have more art (marketing) than science (engineering) until very recently (about 2013). If you are looking at late-model vehicles that have been rated based on J2807, you’ve got your answer. If not, you should lean heavily on online discussion boards and reviews, keeping in mind that big boys (Americans especially) like power in excess and you may not need such a haughty vehicle. Remember that there are online forums and discussions for every little thing in the world, I strongly recommend that you find a group associated with the vehicle you are considering and identify someone who is towing EXACTLY the trailer you’ll be towing: trust me, they are out there if you just ask around.

Will it stop it? This is also an oddly simple question to answer. Tow and weight ratings address pulling--but stopping needs are also considered in that rating. (Do remember to follow recommendations for when trailers need their own brakes.) The trick, in my opinion, is this: if you are buying a vehicle that comes with different engines, the pulling power will vary, but generally speaking the brake systems don’t change across trim levels. A particular Tundra, say, with a big engine, is rated to tow 10,000 pounds, and my smaller-engined version of the same truck can stop that same 10,000 pound weight even though it’s not rated to pull it. (Do take note that there are exceptions.) LAWYERS PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT AN AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEER SO THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Can it carry the load? This is the one everyone forgets. A trailer weighs down the back of your vehicle. (This is variously called hitch weight, pin weight, or tongue weight.) No matter what it’s called, your vehicle considers it “cargo” and you need to be able to carry it. So here you have to do some math, and the source for that math (addition, subtraction… no logarithms!) is generally found on a sticker insider the drivers doorframe of your vehicle. Look up the terms and run the numbers (really, do it!). BUT… keep in mind a couple things:

-- things you add or subtract from a vehicle add or subtract from its cargo capacity and

-- a weight distributing hitch (which is a requirement with sizable trailers) will lighten the load on your hitch by approximately 1/3 of the tongue weight of whatever you were planning to tow. For example, a trailer with a 900 lb tongue weight will only have a hitch weight of 600 pounds or so if you use a weight distributing hitch. (Yes, it’s magic. Many debate it, but I don’t question it.)

One last thing: YOU NEED A BRAKE CONTROLLER if you are towing something that has it’s own brakes! If you don’t know what that is, you don’t have one! And if you don’t have one, then any trailer brakes you might be counting on WILL NOT WORK.

Tow safe. Keep it below the speed limit. Take frequent stops to rest and see ridiculous roadside attractions that your kids will complain about—until they are forty or so and then they will remember it all with tears in their eyes.

The Twinkie 02-08-2017 01:20 PM

Consumer Report
 
We are looking also for a TV.
See Consumer Reports Buying Guide 2017 pg. 183.
It lists all the 1/2 ton pickups by make............ and the only one with a "checkmark" (recommendation) is the Tundra SR5 5.7L V8.
That's what we are leaning towards.

Philip Jones 02-08-2017 01:20 PM

Fantastic post thiel!

Mgieselman 02-08-2017 01:49 PM

I would recommend a TV that meets your payload and tow capacity needs. If your TT has a tongue weight of 900lb and max weight of 8,000lb I would recommend a TV that has at least a 1,600lb payload and 10,000lb tow ratings. However those are just guidelines, if you plan on adding a winch, carry an ATV etc you should account for those when coming up with your requirements.

I have a 2017 F-250 and I use a WD hitch, Ford recommends WD hitch for all trailers over 5,000lb and without it I have significant squat in the rear.

I had a 2016 RAM Ecodiesel Limited and it was a great truck with a fantastic ride however payload was only 893 pounds which was taken up entirely by the TT before we put any people or gear in the truck.

Here comes the opinion part of the post, I like the RAM interior better than the Ford. All 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have much firmer rides. Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are worth having. Get a gas vehicle if it meets your needs, diesel vehicles cost more to acquire and maintain.

MarkFinATX 02-08-2017 02:17 PM

As always a lively discussion on 1/2 ton TV's! I made a somewhat hasty decision when I bought a 2015, F-150, Supercrew, Lariat, 5.0L V-8, short box, before I bough an AS. Had no idea that we'd have a 2016 Sport 22FB a month later. Then a 2016 Pendleton less than 6 months after that. Much research and more importantly a number of recommendations from users, I went with the Hensley. I installed the HAHA (Hensley Arrow Hitch Apparatus) myself on the Pendleton and have towed that combo over 12K miles in since last April. The V-8, that I bought, reluctantly, because it was hard to find the 3.5L EB at the time in TX, has done a great job. We recently bought a house in Santa Fe and hauled the Pendleton out there from Austin TX. On the return trip, much to my surprise, we made it back (720 miles) on a single tank (36 gal.) of gas. Not bad for a gas guzzler. If I were to buy a TV today I'd seriously consider the new 3.5L EB, w/ the 10 speed transmission. But, looks like there will be a a diesel option for 2018. Have not seen details yet.
Have also given a lot of thought to the 3/4 ton with diesel... fuel costs more, maintenance costs are higher, and it might be a bit big and bulky for a daily driver. Pluses; gas stations can be so tight when pulling a trailer. You can use the truck stop pumps with the diesel and have plenty of room for maneuvering and Torque. A diesel has the power, at the rear axle, to pull almost effortlessly.
Whatever you buy, make sure it's rated to tow over 10,000 lbs., has the factory tow package or HD tow group and as mentioned earlier, the crew/super crew is great for the cooler, brief cases, snacks etc.

Jaxon 02-08-2017 03:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thiel (Post 1909467)
One last thing: YOU NEED A BRAKE CONTROLLER if you are towing something that has itís own brakes!

.
Working on that last part...:cool:
.

Mrjkq 02-08-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamRider (Post 1909334)
I recommend that you get the one you like, My preference is the Ram Hemi, plenty of power and decent MPG towing or not towing, but picking a TV is very personal you should make this choice based on your preferences.
I will throw this out, last week I talked to a new owner of a Nissan 5.0 diesel with all of the options it was an amazing TV, just starting out I would recommend that you throw one of these in the mix before you lock in your final choice.
That should add some confusion, have fun!

The 2017 Nissan XD now also comes in a 396 HP gas V8 engine. I have the Cummins Diesel in mine & love it beyond words. I strongly suggest you give it a "look see" as both gas & diesel XD's are full of options at no additional cost.

franklyfrank 02-08-2017 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Twinkie (Post 1909476)
We are looking also for a TV.
See Consumer Reports Buying Guide 2017 pg. 183.
It lists all the 1/2 ton pickups by make............ and the only one with a "checkmark" (recommendation) is the Tundra SR5 5.7L V8.
That's what we are leaning towards.


I quit consulting Consumer reports twenty years ago. They are left of Lenin and totally Anti American anything. Tundra is a Johnny come lately to the Pickup Game. It gets the job done for sure, the Japanese are great copiers.
1. Ford
2. Ram
3. GM only ones that are made in the U.S. GM is building pickups in Mexico and 40% of that production is imported to the U.S. tax free.
The WSJ had a very informative article on this a few weeks ago.


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