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-   -   Tow Vehicle Recommendation (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/tow-vehicle-recommendation-157352.html)

Milo1952 09-23-2016 08:17 PM

Tow Vehicle Recommendation
 
Will be new to airstreaming next year. Retiring in March.Starting from scratch for everything.
My choice of AS will be a late model 25' FC.
Am looking at purchasing a new 2016 Ram 1500 eco diesel as TV. short bed.
It just fits in the garage.
Am looking for other options for TV as my wife does not like the idea of
getting a pickup. Looked at Jeep grand Cherokee but the folks at CAN-AM
said it is NOT one of their favorite choices for towing.
Mpg does matter to me as I have read that the ram can get 16-17 mpg
WHILE TOWING. 27-28 mpg as everyday driver, Would prefer diesel over gas. V-8 gas terrible on gas milage as everyday driver.
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

FCStreamer 09-23-2016 08:19 PM

Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade platform. 8300 towing, 1600 payload.

NorCal Matt 09-23-2016 08:38 PM

From all accounts I've seen the ecodiesel would be a good choice for that sized trailer. The only thing to look out for is the payload (the actual sticker in the door jam, not the advertised payload). if you get one all optioned out you might have issues there.

Good luck!

aftermath 09-23-2016 09:00 PM

Listen to what NorCal Matt just said. I tow a 25 FB with a tundra and it is a great mate for the trailer. But, the issue you need to pay attention is to the payload capacity, not so much the towing capacity. If you are overloaded when you put the trailer on the ball, none of the rest really matters.

I am very happy with the Tundra but it is a PU. If you want to get an SUV then look at the payload numbers.

Aage 09-23-2016 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milo1952 (Post 1855796)
Will be new to airstreaming next year. Retiring in March.Starting from scratch for everything.
My choice of AS will be a late model 25' FC.
Am looking at purchasing a new 2016 Ram 1500 eco diesel as TV. short bed.
It just fits in the garage.
Am looking for other options for TV as my wife does not like the idea of
getting a pickup. Looked at Jeep grand Cherokee but the folks at CAN-AM
said it is NOT one of their favorite choices for towing.
Mpg does matter to me as I have read that the ram can get 16-17 mpg
WHILE TOWING. 27-28 mpg as everyday driver, Would prefer diesel over gas. V-8 gas terrible on gas milage as everyday driver.
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Welcome to the forum, by the way! :D Your first post!!

Please be sure to remember to post some photos of your TT and TV once you make your investment, OK? See you "dpwn the road"...

KJRitchie 09-23-2016 09:56 PM

My 2010 Tundra 2x4 Double Cab had 1365lbs payload, probably similar to the Ram Ecodiesel. Switched to a 2015 Ram Cummins, 2089lbs payload. My Classic 25fb tongue weight is 1100 to 1200lbs. Advertised tongue weight is less than actual tongue weight. FC 25 is probably 900 to 1000lbs.

Kelvin

Alluminati 09-23-2016 11:08 PM

There are plenty SUVs out there that make excellent tow vehicles if your wife likes them better than pickups.

The Ram EcoDiesel 3L engine has 240 horsepower. Is there a smaller engine with less horsepower being sold in a fullsize pickup? I would be concerned that such a small engine would be working its butt off just trying to get the empty truck up to speed, to say nothing of hauling a trailer. Further, the increased cost of diesel fuel and maintenance cancels out some of the MPG gains. Then there’s the nuisance of pumping diesel rather than gas. After the new-car-smell wears off, I think you would find your TV adequate, but joyless.

The “experts” at CAN-AM know a whole lot more about towing than I ever will. But it seems they have overplayed their hand. I’m sure he has sound reasons for some of the claims he’s made, but his conclusions are bordering on illogical. He’s too far off center all by his lonesome to take seriously enough to base your decisions on.

Barbieri 10-10-2016 06:18 PM

My advise is to ignore the wife not wanting a truck. From what you wrote a truck is the only option if you want capability and safety. The western part of the US requires a truck. When you start driving in the Rocky Mountains only a truck can handle the steep road grades. You need that added margin of safety that only a truck can give you. I have a 2004 classic 31 ft and tow with a Ram 2500 6.7 diesel. It is a sweet combination. Gives me piece of mind.

Barbieri 10-10-2016 06:22 PM

tow vehicle recommendation
 
The Ram Ecodiesel is no where close to the tundra. The Tundra tows almost twice what the Eco tows. I already checked it out. You have to go by tow weight not payload.

wulfraat 10-10-2016 08:09 PM

2011+ infiniti QX 56 - 1,600lb payload, 8,500lb towing and 850lb tongue weight. 400hp and 413lb or torque.

Pulls our 25' extremely well and the passengers get to ride in luxury with a buttery smooth suspension, smooth engine and transmission.

dkottum 10-10-2016 08:24 PM

What makes our Ram EcoDiesel tow so perfect for towing our FC 25 is the 8 speed transmission and 3.92 axles, and the ProPride hitch. Plenty of power and very good engine/transmission braking, rock solid on the road in all weather and traffic conditions. The fuel economy is remarkable, it is a nice riding and handling truck with and without the Airstream. 100,000 mile power train warranty.

With any non-heavy duty pickup or SUV you have to consider loading in the truck when carrying a trailer on the hitch. A good weight distribution hitch that is set up properly can transfer 20% of the hitch weight to the Airstream's axles. With our ProPride hitch, the last CAT truck scale reading showed the Airstream and hitch added 840 lbs to the truck's load. The EcoD has front and rear 3900 lb axles, our loaded combo is under these axle ratings and carrying within 20 lbs of each other. Keep heavy gear out of the truck's bed, especially behind the truck's rear axle.

rostam 10-10-2016 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat (Post 1862753)
2011+ infiniti QX 56 - 1,600lb payload, 8,500lb towing and 850lb tongue weight. 400hp and 413lb or torque.

Pulls our 25' extremely well and the passengers get to ride in luxury with a buttery smooth suspension, smooth engine and transmission.

Just curious, is the 1600# payload the published payload or the actual payload stated on the B-pillar's yellow sticker? I'm guessing its the (inflated) published payload as an QX80 I saw had around 1350# stamped on the yellow sticker.

When I was at the NY auto show, I checked the payload number of all SUVs on their B-pillar's yellow sticker. I could not find a single SUV that had more than 1350# of payload (I believe Toyota Sequoia had 1350# of payload). Large SUVs were in 1200# to 1300# range, and midsize SUVs in 900# to 1100# range. I guess the lower trim of those SUVs would have a bit more payload.

dkottum 10-10-2016 09:44 PM

Payload is what you are carrying in the vehicle at any given time, perhaps useful as a shopping tool. The sticker payload number will be preceded by "should never exceed", and will most probably be invalidated by dealer options or mod's before it leaves the lot.

The axle ratings (GVAR) are hard numbers stated on the door for each axle, weighing the loaded combo ready to tow will tell you if you are overloaded. And you could be under the "should never exceed" number and have an overloaded axle. Use a quality weight distribution hitch, set up properly, and take it to the truck scale and weigh the axles to see what you actually have.

wulfraat 10-10-2016 10:40 PM

tow vehicle recommendation
 
My door sticker is 1,420 lbs payload after fuel tank is full I believe (might be 1,450 actually I forget the exact number but it's right in that range). I have 4wd drivetrain. The 2wd version has higher payload due to lower curb weight (no center diff, etc).

My tongue weight adds 760lbs to the truck on the scales so I have a net carrying capacity of 660lb before I hit the theoretical "limit". This is similar to many 1/2 ton pickups.

I believe that payload is an important metric to take into consideration for safe vehicle handling when adding an 800lb trailer tongue to the overall vehicle weight along with occupants and camping gear in the vehicle.

I believe in (a) not exceeding the gross vehicle weight rating and (b) not exceeding front or rear axle weight ratings.

I have a pretty aggressive weight distribution with my 1000# equalizer hitch (late model QX's have a supple suspension and a short rear overhang which helps dial things in) and last time I weighed everything all my axels we within their respective limits along with GVWR reading for camping....

21Airstream 10-11-2016 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbieri (Post 1862702)
My advise is to ignore the wife not wanting a truck. From what you wrote a truck is the only option if you want capability and safety. The western part of the US requires a truck. When you start driving in the Rocky Mountains only a truck can handle the steep road grades. You need that added margin of safety that only a truck can give you. I have a 2004 classic 31 ft and tow with a Ram 2500 6.7 diesel. It is a sweet combination. Gives me piece of mind.


I've often wondered if this is the major difference between those that prefer a 1/2 Ton and those that like 3/4 & 1 Ton trucks. While our '12 Ram 3500 CTD 4x4 handled the mountain passes west of Denver well last month, there was no surplus of power.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

rostam 10-11-2016 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat (Post 1862817)
My door sticker is 1,420 lbs payload after fuel tank is full I believe (might be 1,450 actually I forget the exact number but it's right in that range). I have 4wd drivetrain. The 2wd version has higher payload due to lower curb weight (no center diff, etc).

My tongue weight adds 760lbs to the truck on the scales so I have a net carrying capacity of 660lb before I hit the theoretical "limit". This is similar to many 1/2 ton pickups.

I believe that payload is an important metric to take into consideration for safe vehicle handling when adding an 800lb trailer tongue to the overall vehicle weight along with occupants and camping gear in the vehicle.

I believe in (a) not exceeding the gross vehicle weight rating and (b) not exceeding front or rear axle weight ratings.

I have a pretty aggressive weight distribution with my 1000# equalizer hitch (late model QX's have a supple suspension and a short rear overhang which helps dial things in) and last time I weighed everything all my axels we within their respective limits along with GVWR reading for camping....

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.

rostam 10-11-2016 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum (Post 1862796)
Payload is what you are carrying in the vehicle at any given time, perhaps useful as a shopping tool. The sticker payload number will be preceded by "should never exceed", and will most probably be invalidated by dealer options or mod's before it leaves the lot.

The axle ratings (GVAR) are hard numbers stated on the door for each axle, weighing the loaded combo ready to tow will tell you if you are overloaded. And you could be under the "should never exceed" number and have an overloaded axle. Use a quality weight distribution hitch, set up properly, and take it to the truck scale and weigh the axles to see what you actually have.

Payload = GVWR - curb weight. Say a vehicle weighs 6000# when shipped from the factory (curb weight = 6000#) and has a 7300# GVWR. The difference (7300 - 6000 = 1300) will be stamped on the yellow payload sticker. GVWR is stamped on the same sticker that has axle ratings and is also a hard number. You cannot exceed the payload (1300# in my example) without exceeding the GVWR (7300# in my example). So, just like GVWR payload is a hard number. You can reduce the payload by adding accessories to your vehicle, and increase it by removing accessories. In any case you should not exceed GVWR, which is a hard limit.

Using your logic, you could be within the axle ratings and exceed the tire ratings (by loading unevenly right and left). This does not make axle ratings meaningless. In my experience exceeding the payload/GVWR results in degradation of handling/cornering/braking. YMMV.

While I am against regulations, I really think DMV should require a 30 minute online course on towing jargon before issuing a permit. These topics have been discussed to death and still some folks do not seem to be clear.

dkottum 10-11-2016 07:42 AM

It's clear to me payload and GVWR are not hard numbers, they are suggested numbers ("should not exceed") from the manufacturer. Axle ratings are the hard numbers.

Handling is much less about weight than weight distribution, suspension design of the tow vehicle and trailer, center of gravity of each, and quality of the hitch and setup. Actual towing experience will make that very clear, internet towing experience will not. And you will learn what your truck and trailer are actually capable of (it may be less than GVWR).

rostam 10-11-2016 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum (Post 1862901)
It's clear to me payload and GVWR are not hard numbers, they are suggested numbers ("should not exceed") from the manufacturer. Axle ratings are the hard numbers.

Handling is much less about weight than weight distribution, suspension design of the tow vehicle and trailer, center of gravity of each, and quality of the hitch and setup. Actual towing experience will make that very clear, internet towing experience will not. And you will learn what your truck and trailer are actually capable of (it may be less than GVWR).

If you read your user manual (or any other vehicle's user manual for that matter), you will see that the same language is used for GVWR and axle ratings. There is no way to infer one as being a suggestion and the other as being a hard limit. Here is a snippet from Ram user manual: "Do not load your vehicle any heavier than the GVWR or the maximum front and rear GAWR. If you do, parts on your vehicle can break, or it can change the way your vehicle handles. This could cause you to lose control. Also overloading can shorten the life of your vehicle."

You had serious stability issues with your previous setup. You solved it by buying the most complex hitch in the market. Good for you. Your experience validates my personal experience that there is a lot more to stability than low center of gravity, independent suspension, and an aerodynamic shape of the trailer (buzz word repeated here over and over). If these attributes REALLY mattered, you would have come here and reported than you get excellent stability while using a simple $200 hitch. Or that you could get excellent stability while using NO WDH with sway control.

wulfraat 10-11-2016 10:16 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Someone asked for the specifics of my 2012 QX... here are the door stickers...

Great tow vehicle for my 25'...

Attachment 273381
Attachment 273382


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