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AirDavid.com 09-15-2016 01:04 PM

Resources for renting land or place to park
 
Hello,

I'm an Adventure Advisor (salesman) for Bay Area Airstream in Northern California. With the tiny house movement in full swing we get a lot of people asking about land for rent or space next to a home or anywhere they can park their Airstream. Does anybody have any resources other than Craigslist to find long term living parking?

I have a young couple from Marin County currently looking and not having much luck so far. RV parks are very expensive around here, so they prefer a private land or home owner.

Thanks in advance for your help!

- David

drboyd 09-15-2016 01:13 PM

I would think that zoning is gonna be the biggest obstacle. I'd talk with some of the ciity planning and zoning departments to see what they know.

OTRA15 09-15-2016 05:02 PM

Welcome to the forum David! Always good to have someone in the industry associated with an AS dealer.

There have been some other threads raising similar issues. I will look for some links FYI. Ditto to drboyd about zoning in most suburban areas being the main problem. Here are some possible threads with leads:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...eam-98483.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...al-149306.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f462...and-73264.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...ots-33174.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f459...ons-47242.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...er-115340.html
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...ccd-39344.html


Also you could look at the Full-timing sub-forums' list of threads:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314/
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f459/

Good luck!

Peter

PS -- David are you getting the new Basecamp demo model in soon? Curious if you have any feedback on the issues being raised in this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ng-156584.html

Thanks

AWCHIEF 09-15-2016 05:28 PM

Welcome, Local real estate agents.

AirDavid.com 09-15-2016 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF (Post 1851386)
Welcome, Local real estate agents.


Yeah, been seriously thinking about finding a real estate agent that deals in land. This has been such a popular idea because of the "Tiny House" TV shows, especially in the Bay Area where housing prices have become ridiculous.


Thanks for the links OTRA15, I will check those out.

drboyd, I agree but first we need to know where to even begin. Was looking for resources that might list land rentals, then can look into city ordinances once a location is scouted.

AirDavid.com 09-15-2016 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 1851376)

PS -- David are you getting the new Basecamp demo model in soon? Curious if you have any feedback on the issues being raised in this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ng-156584.html

Thanks

Peter, we don't have the Basecamp yet, should be any day now. I'll hold off on talking about any "issues" until I can see it myself. I can tell you we have had a HUGE amount of interest and taken quite a few deposits on pre-orders already. I'll chime in once we have one to show.

Thanks for the welcome!

- David

Hittenstiehl 09-15-2016 07:33 PM

"Lands of America" lists rural property. It's free and fun to look at.

cameront120 09-15-2016 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirDavid.com (Post 1851408)

drboyd, I agree but first we need to know where to even begin. Was looking for resources that might list land rentals, then can look into city ordinances once a location is scouted.

You're doing it backwards. You need to determine which zoning in the chosen county will allow the use that you are suggesting, then restrict your searches to those locations. You'll likely have some work to do to contact all the AHJ (authorities having jurisdiction) to determine which zones permit RV use. Once you find a property that has the necessary zoning, you'll then need to build the infrastructure if none exists. This is why RV parks aren't cheap; there are land costs, taxes and infrastructure costs (water, sanitary, electric, gas, etc.). Good luck.

mandolindave 09-15-2016 09:49 PM

AirDavid, I'm moving to California for a year.
 
Can I live in my camper... in your yard? I don't want to pay very much. I'll need to be close to your house so I can hook up to your sewer, and water, and electric. Most likely, your neighbors won't mind very much. If they report you, you might have to declare the income when you file, but you can write off the finders fee. Most likely, your insurance company won't find out, and charge you extra, ya know, in case I get hurt on your property and sue you. If you are not interested, is there a lot next to you that's for sale? Maybe I could buy it and live there…in my camper.

See what your up against? Then there is the zoning issues. ( you can research that because I'm too lazy get into that…but I'll give you two. The town I live in doesn't allow clothes lines, The county where my country home is, doesn't allow you to live in a trailer that is shorter than 50 feet )

Just thinking that most folks that can afford a really nice location, with pretty views, won't need the income, or want to give up their privacy.

Folks that would be willing to give up their privacy, because they need a few extra bucks, might not have a very desirable location to camp long term.

Remember all those annoying cliches? There are no free lunches, You reap what you sew, You get what you pay for

I'm sure you could find some nice places, but they might be in the middle of nowhere, hopefully not next to a meth lab, or a pig farm.

Hope you got a chuckle, and aren't offended by obnoxious sarcasm ha ha.

SteveSueMac 09-16-2016 05:41 AM

That was some fine obnoxious sarcasm! And informative too. 😀

OTRA15 09-16-2016 06:07 AM

:bb:

???

:wally:

OTRA15 09-16-2016 06:13 AM

Thanks David, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Basecamp thread if you wish. Apologies for the recent sarcasm, I hope your skin is not thin. mandolindave's underlying concerns are worth exploring with your customers, although his tone could have been a little more supportive of your goodhearted inquiries IMO.

I do imagine that there is a rural plot someplace which would fit the bill. How about placing a Craig's List ad for what they want? You never know, but dealing with the volume of non-productive leads, spam, scams, etc., may be too much to bear. One of the links I posted yesterday was for a stationary AS in Northern CA, so that thread may resonate here. Link to follow on edit:

Edit -- http://www.airforums.com/forums/f314...eam-98483.html

I would suggest recommending that the couple focus on where they would like to live first, and then dive into the zoning and land use regulations next. Way north of Santa Rosa is my guess, with Marin, Sonoma, and Napa counties being unlikely candidates for an easy find, again IMO.

Good luck!

Peter


Quote:

Originally Posted by AirDavid.com (Post 1851410)
Peter, we don't have the Basecamp yet, should be any day now. I'll hold off on talking about any "issues" until I can see it myself. I can tell you we have had a HUGE amount of interest and taken quite a few deposits on pre-orders already. I'll chime in once we have one to show.

Thanks for the welcome!

- David


xrvr 09-16-2016 06:16 AM

OS, crude but effective, and necessary sometimes.

xrvr 09-16-2016 06:18 AM

The tiny house thing is resurrecting the reason zoning started.

AWCHIEF 09-16-2016 07:22 AM

Adventure Advisor = salesman. LMAO, only in kalifornia.

mandolindave 09-16-2016 08:05 AM

Respectfully, I didn't mean to offend
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15 (Post 1851555)
Apologies for the recent sarcasm, I hope your skin is not thin. mandolindave's underlying concerns are worth exploring with your customers, although his tone could have been a little more supportive of your goodhearted inquiries IMO.

No need to apologize for me. I meant what I said. I realize that the printed word can be misinterpreted, given the lack of inflection, and facial cues, which is why I added a disclaimer at the end of my post.

As far as sarcasm, and taking off the kid gloves, on a scale of one to ten, that was about a two for me. I'm thinking a six would have gotten me banished from the forum. Point taken…I'll dial it down to a one, unless the original poster has a sense of humor and is curious as to what a ten sounds like….ha ha

Lily&Me 09-16-2016 08:16 AM

People sometimes seem to latch onto a dream... such as "living in an Airstream"...when they simply don't yet have the means to achieve it.

It would be an unusual homeowner that is very much the exception, rather than the rule, it seems to me, who would be interested in setting up full hookups to rent a spot long term to strangers. :huh:

They would then become landlords, with all those accompanying trials, tribulations, and liability issues.

It seems the idyllic dream of the young-and-not-yet-financially-stable...like backpacking across Europe, living in a VW bus and traveling the country, etc.

They want it all, and now, and want others to help them.

I could be wrong, but if it were one of my kids wanting to live in an Airstream on the cheap, I would direct them to the hard reality of financing any dream thru working and saving for it.

Most of us don't get dreams such as this in young adulthood, because we simply don't have the resources to fund them.

My 2 cents.

Maggie

xrvr 09-16-2016 08:25 AM

Yup!

mandolindave 09-16-2016 08:33 AM

Maggie, I think? David is wants to help folks who already have an Airstream.
 
Young folks who spot an Airstream on the road, and get the great idea of saving a lot of money by buying a cool trailer, and a lot, to live on the cheap is a different story.

They might buy a used RV, spend a year and a ton of money fixing it up, or buy a new one and lose a ton of money driving it off the lot. Only to find out how much a well, septic tank, electric service, and communications service costs to install. Not taking into account zoning laws and winter camping issues.

When buying a small home might be about the same price, and you have a chance of being able to sell it without loosing too much money.

Lily&Me 09-16-2016 08:38 AM

I took Dave's statement about a young couple looking as "wanting to buy", and needing an inexpensive place to set up to then live in full time. :bb:

Either way, this is a dilemma of the dreamers-without-financial-security...it seems to me. :huh:


Maggie

mandolindave 09-16-2016 08:41 AM

Don't know how to rate this on the sarcasm level ????
 
I plan to buy a small home and turn it into a trailer.


( joking…..I'm kidding already )

mandolindave 09-16-2016 08:46 AM

Oh my goodness !!!!!
 
I think that I might have a weird sense of humor.

But I really crack myself up sometimes.

Lily&Me 09-16-2016 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandolindave (Post 1851613)
I plan to buy a small home and turn it into a trailer.


( joking…..I'm kidding already )

I was just reading an article about someone who did just that...built a tiny home on wheels for he and his family, that can go with them as they travel.


Maggie

mandolindave 09-16-2016 09:22 AM

I 've failed when I have to explain a joke
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lily&Me (Post 1851622)
I was just reading an article about someone who did just that...built a tiny home on wheels for he and his family, that can go with them as they travel.


Maggie

Yeah many tiny homes are on wheels….But I meant buying an existing home and putting it on wheels. The joke being a trailer is not designed to be a stationary domicile, and a stick house is not designed to roll down a highway.

OTRA15 09-16-2016 10:07 AM

And so the thread devolves . . .

:wally:

Rocinante 09-16-2016 11:13 AM

Resources for renting land or place to park
 
BTW, welcome to the forum, glad to have you here waltzing happily amidst a garden of curmudgeons. Regarding this topic maybe you shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque, but here we are.

If your potential buyers are serious about full-timing in an Airstream, they're going to have to do that where they can park it at a reasonable cost. The Bay Area, by and large, isn't going to be one of those if they have a reasonable commute in mind. Neither is Seattle or Portland. There's more than local ordinances and zoning, btw. Never forget the all powerful HOA, which inevitably hates an RV in the driveway, even more than it hates rusty old cars on blocks.

So, where could they go with their Airstream? If they have the right kind of job (usually in Tech) they could go boondock on public lands (BLM) for some portion of the year, like many folks who wind up in Quartzite for the winter. I actually know an entire group of young full timers, many with children, who do exactly that and do it quite successfully because they've actually thought it through.

As Maggie suggested earlier, if they don't have financial security via a job that lets them work remotely then buying an Airstream and dragging it around looking for the place to live is a really bad idea. RVs and their tow vehicles are expensive to own and operate, even if the camping is free. If they get into this without enough capital and a plan to survive the experience financially, they won't. They'll wind up somewhere with a couple of flat tires or a busted-something-expensive, begging for money on GoFundMe so they can get back home again and park the RV at the "Mom & Dad Hotel" until they figure it out or sell the thing and rent an apartment so they can commute to their jobs.

So, let's also be clear about who's helping whom.

Selling a trailer right now helps you, right now, due to quotas and such. That's fine, I respect that.

OTOH, selling them a trailer right now may hurt them if they don't actually have a plan that has a chance of working.

Best wishes and again, welcome to the Forum. :)

AirDavid.com 09-16-2016 12:31 PM

Thank you all for your input, the sarcasm is not offensive but I did forget how forums can be, LOTS of assumptions :huh:

I was basically just looking for other resources other than Craigslist to find long term living locations. Thank you to those that got that and gave valuable input.

The young couple that I talked about are already buyers, they are not "prospective buyers" they have the means and purchased last week but the spot they had picked out fell through so I'm trying to help them find something else.

OTRA15, thank you for your help especially, those other threads have a lot of great info. I'll try and contribute when I can to other threads but selling Airstream is a VERY busy job right now and we are the #1 dealership in the country. Basecamp is kinda like the new Iphone, everyone wants it because we don't have it! :) I'll give my thoughts on it soon, does look pretty cool though.

- David

p.s. My airdavid.com website isn't up yet, just bought that domain and working on it now. My background is ecommerce and tech so plan to use that to sell Airstream

lovetokite 09-16-2016 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandolindave (Post 1851488)
Can I live in my camper... in your yard? I don't want to pay very much. I'll need to be close to your house so I can hook up to your sewer, and water, and electric. Most likely, your neighbors won't mind very much. If they report you, you might have to declare the income when you file, but you can write off the finders fee. Most likely, your insurance company won't find out, and charge you extra, ya know, in case I get hurt on your property and sue you. If you are not interested, is there a lot next to you that's for sale? Maybe I could buy it and live there…in my camper.

See what your up against? Then there is the zoning issues. ( you can research that because I'm too lazy get into that…but I'll give you two. The town I live in doesn't allow clothes lines, The county where my country home is, doesn't allow you to live in a trailer that is shorter than 50 feet )

Just thinking that most folks that can afford a really nice location, with pretty views, won't need the income, or want to give up their privacy.

Folks that would be willing to give up their privacy, because they need a few extra bucks, might not have a very desirable location to camp long term.

Remember all those annoying cliches? There are no free lunches, You reap what you sew, You get what you pay for

I'm sure you could find some nice places, but they might be in the middle of nowhere, hopefully not next to a meth lab, or a pig farm.

Hope you got a chuckle, and aren't offended by obnoxious sarcasm ha ha.

very good points...and entertaining as well...:lol:

D2LLIO 09-16-2016 01:57 PM

Realtor.com
 
AirDavid, go to realtor.com and search for land (not homes). You can specify an area, price range, size of lot, etc.

rjmaype 09-16-2016 02:42 PM

I always had the dream to rent a large garage or shed and park the AS in there stating it is a "restoration project".

Then I would just live in it.

mandolindave 09-16-2016 02:51 PM

There is a guy in New York State who tried that.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rjmaype (Post 1851839)
I always had the dream to rent a large garage or shed and park the AS in there stating it is a "restoration project".

Then I would just live in it.

He had permission from the property owner who lived in a house there. He was well hidden, I think he got busted by posting videos on "off grid " living. He got evicted. ( No running water, no septic etc )

The other issue is people who worked hard to buy a nice house, sometimes take issue with people living in RVs, bringing the property values down. Then there is the municipalities, that like folks to pay taxes.

ijustlee 09-16-2016 03:27 PM

I hate to be a buzzkill but just say "NO" to someone who thinks they will live cheap in an Airstream in a populated area like the Bay Area. The zoning laws will get you in trouble very quickly unless you are very good at flying under the radar. The number one $50 a day fine comes from not being hooked to a legal sewer. In the rural county where I live your trailer or camper is subject to a fine if it can even just be seen from the 3 main state highways in the county because the board of supervisors were worried about the "image" tourists might get. In an industrial area the little shop/garage spaces are subject to monthly inspections from code inspectors looking for pollution sources, supposedly. It is tough to live inexpensively in the USA nowadays. It can be done but is not easy. It seems that the powers that be hate the tiny house movement. I commend Mandolindave for being realistic and would be OK with him posting at a "5"! Just my 2 cents worth!

mandolindave 09-16-2016 03:41 PM

To be clear…so I don't look like a snob
 
I am ALL FOR small affordable housing. Homes that could be heated or cooled for a few dollars a day. Homes that could be painted in a weekend for a hundred dollars worth of paint. It would be good for the environment, and carbon footprint and such.

I think the powers that be should make areas available for that. They actually kind of already do. New Jersey requires "well to do" municipalities, to provide a certain amount of low income housing. Some "well to do" towns pay other towns to take over their quota of low income housing. The whole " not in my backyard " mentality. The same with Wind Turbines, great for the environment, but people don't want to spoil their pretty views of the countryside.

One of the problems with it is the cost of police, firehouses, and education. Taxes have to pay for that. Who is gonna pick up the slack. Property taxes are already chasing me into homelessness.

Another problem is the need for jobs, medical care, and stores to be reasonably close to these areas.

Tough economy now….no easy answers .

AWCHIEF 09-16-2016 04:17 PM

Interesting info,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gobank...b_9942198.html

Janet H 09-16-2016 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirDavid.com (Post 1851733)
Thank you all for your input, the sarcasm is not offensive but I did forget how forums can be, LOTS of assumptions :huh:

I was basically just looking for other resources other than Craigslist to find long term living locations. Thank you to those that got that and gave valuable input.

The young couple that I talked about are already buyers, they are not "prospective buyers" they have the means and purchased last week but the spot they had picked out fell through so I'm trying to help them find something else.

Some options:

Many RV parks have long term leases available.
DNR land can be camped on for extended periods of time
How about a house sitting gig with parking rights?
Campground host?
Intentional community?
Search realtor.com in the desired area for land.

ckandmonair 09-17-2016 01:16 AM

As a realtor of 14 years I must say this thread was highly amusing. 😂😂

mandolindave 09-17-2016 06:00 AM

??????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ckandmonair (Post 1852109)
As a realtor of 14 years I must say this thread was highly amusing. 😂😂

Why do you find this thread highly amusing because you are a realtor.

xrvr 09-17-2016 06:04 AM

Probably finds it amusing because people actually think one can put a tiny home or trailer anywhere they want to and live in it. Not gonna happen in my neighborhood or yours if you are smart. If you don't understand why, well, you just will never understand.

InterBlog 09-17-2016 07:06 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by avionstream (Post 1851558)
The tiny house thing is resurrecting the reason zoning started.

You are more correct than you might realize. I used to be an HGTV junkie but the tiny house propaganda has really turned me off. In my opinion, it has become an endless stream of happily-ever-after presentations that have questionable basis in reality. Most HGTV money shots (aka "reveals") do not show tiny houses with any obvious hook-ups to water, sewer, or electric, or even lawfully parked (I suspect, at least not beyond the filming permit). They build these custom units and find the prettiest natural staging area possible and they just set the unit out there for the 3 hours it takes them to do the shoot, implying that it's the destination in many cases. The whole basis of the show is supposedly sustainability via smaller living, but they don't bother to mention that their presentation itself is inherently unsustainable. That kind of practice results in the public developing unrealistic expectations.

Here's a screengrab from tinyhousegiantjourney, who got busted for violating code. This kind of outcome will only increase, and it irritates me because it casts a potentially bad light on those of us who are interested in the lowest-profile stealth camping in a vehicle rather than showboating a politically-correct lifestyle.

xrvr 09-17-2016 07:35 AM

You are so right!

truxpin 09-17-2016 09:26 AM

We had luck using Craigslist while living outside the Wichita, KS. area, found a 7 acre lot that previously had an old single wide trailer on it. (Water, electric & lagoon existing) With a little work we turned it into a perfect RV hideaway. Spots like this are rare because of city & county ordinances. We were lucky in that the land owner was very well "connected" AND the location was very private, despite being only miles from the city.
All major cities & counties have clear restrictions against a permanent placement of a trailer for living quarters. ( Short of being in an actual RV Park) Even some "rural" counties have these restrictions..... We are looking into some land in Northern Arizona ( Navajo Country) to use as a getaway for our Airstream vacations, and we're surprised to see limits on how long an RV could "legally" be placed on the property.
If your intention is to be anywhere within an hour of any major city, I think you have to be willing to tell a few white lies and look the other way when it comes to the zoning and city regulations. There really is no way around the rules. We always figured that if the regulators ever showed up and really raised enough stink, we could always just "hook-up" and drive off... 😀

tevake 09-17-2016 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF (Post 1851580)
Adventure Advisor = salesman. LMAO, only in kalifornia.

Not just in Cali, AWCHIEF.
I met a guy in a park Rangers uniform here in Prescott Az, Said he was a camp ranger.
In asking for details, it turns out that's what they call sales folk at a nearby dealership ��

Cheers Richard

Rocinante 09-17-2016 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tevake (Post 1852197)
...it turns out that's what they call sales folk at a nearby dealership

Yup, the official title for salespeople at Airstream Adventures Northwest dealerships is "Adventure Advisor." They actually did provide useful advice during the purchase process, so we were fine with it. :)

lovetokite 09-18-2016 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InterBlog (Post 1852139)
You are more correct than you might realize. I used to be an HGTV junkie but the tiny house propaganda has really turned me off. In my opinion, it has become an endless stream of happily-ever-after presentations that have questionable basis in reality. Most HGTV money shots (aka "reveals") do not show tiny houses with any obvious hook-ups to water, sewer, or electric, or even lawfully parked (I suspect, at least not beyond the filming permit). They build these custom units and find the prettiest natural staging area possible and they just set the unit out there for the 3 hours it takes them to do the shoot, implying that it's the destination in many cases. The whole basis of the show is supposedly sustainability via smaller living, but they don't bother to mention that their presentation itself is inherently unsustainable. That kind of practice results in the public developing unrealistic expectations.

Here's a screengrab from tinyhousegiantjourney, who got busted for violating code. This kind of outcome will only increase, and it irritates me because it casts a potentially bad light on those of us who are interested in the lowest-profile stealth camping in a vehicle rather than showboating a politically-correct lifestyle.

Absolutely correct!!!

tvketchum 09-18-2016 06:11 AM

To buy an Airstream just to park in one spot is just not what they were intended for. If one has to be close to an area because of jobs, a better alternative is housing which was intended to be permanent housing. Otherwise, you will by paying for RV sites in parks, campgrounds, mobile home parks.

So you have a customer whose parking spot fell through. Helping to find an alternate is admirable. Most salesmen would simply take the unit as a trade or a bought used unit at a fraction of a new unit cost, then sell it again to a different customer at a less than new price for a used but hardly used unit, and make another commission.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

Tom
TVKetchum

OTRA15 10-01-2016 03:20 AM

Curious for your thoughts, David, on the low-hanging sewer dump and two rear-corner downward projections, in terms of ground clearance and possible rock-strikes when parking at a campsite, or taking tight turns.

If you feel like also posting on one of the two Basecamp threads, that would be appreciated:

Original thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...ng-156584.html
Fans thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f404...mp-157390.html

Thanks,

Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirDavid.com (Post 1851410)
Peter, we don't have the Basecamp yet, should be any day now. I'll hold off on talking about any "issues" until I can see it myself. I can tell you we have had a HUGE amount of interest and taken quite a few deposits on pre-orders already. I'll chime in once we have one to show.

Thanks for the welcome!

- David


Starstream 10-01-2016 09:26 AM

When it comes to RV parking, you can play by the rules and still have issues with the neighbors. We live in a deed restricted neighborhood and keep our trailer in storage. Had it hitched to the tow vehicle and parked in front of our house for one day while we loaded up for a five week trip. Couldn't have been more obvious we were going somewhere. Got back and found a nasty letter from the HOA gestapo reminding us our RV couldn't be parked in our subdivision. We know which b'witchy neighbor complained. She keeps using the excuse that they're putting their house up for sale whenever she want to snoop. For our own part, we're tired of big city living and like being nomads. We're far more likely to leave before she does.

So wishing your clients the best of luck, AirDave.

Rocinante 10-01-2016 11:30 AM

Yeah, our neighbor just put their house up for sale, so I'm sure we'll get an HOA request soon to move Rocinante out of our driveway. Almost done with our connectivity project, so am planning to move it to storage pretty soon anyway.

Starstream 10-01-2016 01:30 PM

Our neighbor used that excuse more than a year ago to find out how long our trailer would be at our house. They haven't put their house on the market yet.

We had ATT here yesterday to switch our internet back to their service. She was checking her rear view mirrors as she left to see who was at our house. Our original service was disconnected by someone, and a crew has to come next week to bury the new cable. Nothing she can do about that, but wouldn't put it past her to ask why they were here.


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