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59ORLander · 06-08-2016, 03:33 PM

Well that went very nicely! We went out Boondocking for the very first time after srcrambling a bit to finalize water system and the 12v system (I added a car battery in line in the bathroom closet just for a bit more capacity). Everything worked, loved having a propane powered fridge. We had a small leak in our fresh water line and realized we need to keep the pump off mostly until I get better hose clamps. But boy does that Sureflo put out a shower stream!

We put over 600 miles on the car with the trailer and I have to say, getting this vehicle for commuting and pulling was the best decision I've made in a long while. Towing with the big diesel pickup we have (a ford 350SD) just isn't comfortable or "fun" at all. With this setup, we had quiet comfortable and pretty darned economical fun and we felt a lot more nimble and maneuverable, to say the least. Our vehicle is a '12 and I did buy a 280.00 chip that added another 60-80 ft/lbs of torque to an already healthy 425 stock. The thing pulls like a train, even up over uphill grades we could accelerate from 55-60 in just seconds if needed. There were just a few times I raised an eyebrow and held on tight if we were going over massive dips/bumps and curves at the same time and the trailer would jump around. It'd have done it even worse behind our big truck, I'd imagine. I just always felt things were in good control and I suspect that the BMW's Xdrive and anti sway control was doing a lot of things undetected. I can really see how they'd advise against anti-sway devices being installed. On the hitch front, I'd guess we had a good 450-500 lbs on the tongue with the water and propane tanks (although ours are aluminum albeit large). It sagged the car down about 2 inches in the rear and it looked and felt perfect and rode very smoothly.

We were amazed at how smoothly and eventless the X5 pulled and our new electric brakes with the Tekonsha Prodigy RF controller was perfect. One note, though, was that the initial "pairing" for the remote and the control box on the Prodigy needed to happen with a domestic vehicle. For some reason the brains of the BMW didn't like to make things happen. But then it was an easy switchover..

We had a lot of hillclimbing to do in Central and Eastern Oregon and always felt very much in control. This was all without any sway bars. The Bimmer handled it all very very well and never noticed any sway. We averaged 16mpgs going all up and down in the mountains with 65-70mph common speeds. On the way home from Pendleton through the Columbia Gorge we got a true 17.5 mpgs going 68mpg. I was very pleased.

A couple questions did come up along the way as it was our first boondocking trip. I have trouble still knowing for sure if our 12v wiring from the car is charging the batteries or not. What is the best way to tell for sure? Also, I'm pretty sure the 12v Fridge was sapping our power pretty quickly from the batteries. But also I'm not sure if the car's charge would typically "keep up" with a refrigerator's usage? Our is a 70s Vintage Dometic. I love the propane setup on it, but I am assuming that you just never ever run that while driving? Any comments? I also noticed that the pilot on our water heater was awfully sensitive to wind gusts and would just shut off randomly, although for the most part we had hot water and it stayed on. How are these switches on refrigerators and hot water heaters at the pilot lights designed to handle "blow outs" from wind etc. to keep propane from pumping after the flames go out, anyway? I suspect I know but if I had to explain it, I'd have a hard time haha.

Thanks,

David F · 06-08-2016, 03:49 PM

Glad to hear the X5 performed well. This weekend, I am going to pick up my new to me 1967 17' Caravel with our 2008 BMW X5 4.8i. I also purchased a Tekonsha RF brake controller. Good to know about the pairing issues...might have to use my uncle's truck to pair the controller. My uncle is the seller.

My X5 pulls our 3800 lb wakeboard boat much better than our Suburban ever could. It helps having 355HP at your disposal.

andreasduess · 06-08-2016, 03:50 PM

That's a beautiful rig. Very, very nice.

59ORLander · 06-08-2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreasduess

That's a beautiful rig. Very, very nice.

Thanks! We were not sure about the matchup, but we kind of love the old technology and look with the modern car. It's a good size matchup, really, which also surprised me. I was a bit worried the car would be dwarfed by the trailer, but these old girls really aren't that "big" by today's standards. And of course that lightweightedness is great

dkottum · 06-08-2016, 05:05 PM

Looks and performs nice, a perfect combination. You may want to run the combo over a truck scale to check BMW axle weights, to ensure you're not overloading the rear axle and too light in front without a w.d. hitch.

Foiled Again · 06-08-2016, 08:04 PM

Glad to hear you had such a great experience - and the mileage is impressive for towing. Hope you enjoy your BMW for years of towing and ordinary driving.

I would add one word of caution - just because you CAN tow at 70 MPH doesn't mean you should. I wrecked over 2 years ago... so I'm not being preachy, I'm speaking from expensive regret. I had great insurance coverage and newer units, but the wreck cost me $20K+ in "realized depreciation" A six year old Airstream and a 3 year old tow vehicle are NOT as valuable as they were when new, but you can ignore depreciation until you trade or wreck - then it comes out of your pocket. I could do "coulda, shoulda, mighta forever. The only thing I know is if I'd been going 55 I really COULDA come to a safe pull over and stop - then figured out what the heck happened in the first place. Last summer I was puttering up the mountains of West Virginia in a light misty rain when a jacked up pickup with oversized tires pulled up behind me. 2 lanes and no place for me to move off... got his brights flashed in my mirrors a couple of times, then we went around a bend where the road ahead was clearly visible for quite a distance... still double yellow lines though. So the youngish driver with great confidence in his reflexes passed me, and went into a spin as he was pulling back to the right lane. I'd slowed down already, and just stopped as I watched him ALMOST bring his truck back under control. Luckily he lost a lot of momentum and luckily he hit the wall on the right instead going over the cliff on the left. Even more luckily the vehicle that came around the curve at us was a state trooper. My statement only took a few minutes because it was a one car wreck. Truth: I don't think the truck's driver was a complete putz, he just knew the road too well, had too much confidence in his skills, and thought that "being in a hurry" was important. Glad he wasn't hurt. Glad I was driving like a __________ (fill in the derogative term of your choice.)

The wreck changed me as a driver - especially when towing. When you're towing and anything goes wrong - your reaction time is twice as short - and the consequences of not being quite fast enough or not doing everything perfectly are twice as expensive than if it's just a car wreck! You've got a beautiful VINTAGE Airstream and your insurance will NEVER pay you back for it's cost. Your best protection is to slow down just a bit.

Your fantastic gas mileage will be even better. Your view of the scenery - priceless!

Have fun, be safe, make every other RV'er on the road drool with envy!

59ORLander · 06-09-2016, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Glad to hear you had such a great experience - and the mileage is impressive for towing. Hope you enjoy your BMW for years of towing and ordinary driving.

I would add one word of caution - just because you CAN tow at 70 MPH doesn't mean you should. I wrecked over 2 years ago... so I'm not being preachy, I'm speaking from expensive regret. I had great insurance coverage and newer units, but the wreck cost me $20K+ in "realized depreciation" A six year old Airstream and a 3 year old tow vehicle are NOT as valuable as they were when new, but you can ignore depreciation until you trade or wreck - then it comes out of your pocket. I could do "coulda, shoulda, mighta forever. The only thing I know is if I'd been going 55 I really COULDA come to a safe pull over and stop - then figured out what the heck happened in the first place. Last summer I was puttering up the mountains of West Virginia in a light misty rain when a jacked up pickup with oversized tires pulled up behind me. 2 lanes and no place for me to move off... got his brights flashed in my mirrors a couple of times, then we went around a bend where the road ahead was clearly visible for quite a distance... still double yellow lines though. So the youngish driver with great confidence in his reflexes passed me, and went into a spin as he was pulling back to the right lane. I'd slowed down already, and just stopped as I watched him ALMOST bring his truck back under control. Luckily he lost a lot of momentum and luckily he hit the wall on the right instead going over the cliff on the left. Even more luckily the vehicle that came around the curve at us was a state trooper. My statement only took a few minutes because it was a one car wreck. Truth: I don't think the truck's driver was a complete putz, he just knew the road too well, had too much confidence in his skills, and thought that "being in a hurry" was important. Glad he wasn't hurt. Glad I was driving like a __________ (fill in the derogative term of your choice.)

The wreck changed me as a driver - especially when towing. When you're towing and anything goes wrong - your reaction time is twice as short - and the consequences of not being quite fast enough or not doing everything perfectly are twice as expensive than if it's just a car wreck! You've got a beautiful VINTAGE Airstream and your insurance will NEVER pay you back for it's cost. Your best protection is to slow down just a bit.

Your fantastic gas mileage will be even better. Your view of the scenery - priceless!

Have fun, be safe, make every other RV'er on the road drool with envy!

I hear ya..I should've said "occasional speeds" through the mountains, I suppose, as I would bet we were below 65 much more often than above

I just needed to test things out on occasion.. But yeah, I'm a real freak about MPGs and always watching them. It's sort of a hobby of mine. So that helps safety too. In the Gorge area, the highway is awesome and very flat and we didn't face a headwind of any kind (a rarity, it's famous for it's winds) and we felt like we were crawling along vs all the 80mph cars lol

David F · 06-13-2016, 07:55 AM

Well, I successfully transported my 1967 Caravel from Jasper Arkansas to Austin Texas. The X5 and trailer performed well averaging about 19mpg w/o trailer and 11.5mpg with trailer. No sway control, but never an issue with top speed of 70mph. Truck, driver, and passenger were very tired upon arriving home. I too had to us a separate vehicle to pair the RF brake controller, but it worked perfectly nonetheless.

Road Ruler · 06-13-2016, 08:26 AM

There was a great towing article posted a while back about the X5 being the "Ultimate towing machine" and I would sure like to afford one myself. Thinking a WDH would be an added safety and handing addition.

PS the pics look great. Congratulations!

David F · 06-13-2016, 09:12 AM

It was my understanding that it is not a good idea to use WDH with self leveling rear suspensions. I read that the WDH and the cars self leveling system do not play nice together. My X5 has rear self leveling air bags.

dkottum · 06-13-2016, 09:26 AM

W.D. and sway control are needed safety measures. Automatic leveling does not distribute weight, return the front axle to it's safest handling and braking condition. Turn off the auto leveling to set up w.d., then turn it back on.

Sway control provides resistance to unexpected and sudden sway started by gusting cross wind, semi passing, downhill braking as trailer tries to overtake the vehicle. You can get a simple and effective w.d. hitch with individual adjustable friction sway control bars, w.d. hitch with integrated sway control, or projected pivot point w.d. hitch to eliminate the possibility of sway.

John&Vicki · 06-13-2016, 09:50 AM

I'm with Doug re WD and sway control. It makes me really nervous to think of a fellow Oregonian zooming along at 70mph without them. I wouldn't depend on the electronic goodies on your TV to manage your trailer - that's not what they're designed to do.

John

Burnside Bob · 06-13-2016, 10:28 AM

Wow. Nice looking restoration. Congratulations from Mount Angel!!

Good job!!

59ORLander · 06-13-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John&Vicki

I'm with Doug re WD and sway control. It makes me really nervous to think of a fellow Oregonian zooming along at 70mph without them. I wouldn't depend on the electronic goodies on your TV to manage your trailer - that's not what they're designed to do.

John

I just don't know..I have read on and on and been lectured tirelessly by people who have used sway bars, and none of them have driven an X5 or towed with one. Meanwhile, I have read and been told that BMW recommends against them and I certainly feel a lot of confidence and have felt the performance when towing. The electronics and the AWD and braking system is really very sophisticated in these things. They actually sense winds and body movement (ie directions being pushed out of the ordinary from where the steering is pointed) and reacts accordingly without the driver even noticing. It senses pitch and yaw and react in microseconds and they don't just "fail". The X drive system has been proven over the world for years now.

So I'm torn..sort of

David F · 06-14-2016, 06:03 AM

in the FWIW department, on an empty road, I tried to induce the trailer to sway and it simply would not. From years of pulling a boat/trailer, it is weight distribution (i.e tongue weight) that contributes to sway or eliminates sway. With the boat, I can move it forward or back on the trailer to get the correct amount of tongue weight to ensure no sway. I guess the tongue weight on my little Caravel is just about right. Thus, I am not going to use the hundred or so pounds of hitch, LD bars, and sway control device with my X5 and Caravel. Simply no need. Yes, I experienced downhill runs in the Ozarks, emergency stops at highway speeds, gusty wind conditions, and twisting roads all with no drama. This will work for me, others should determine for themselves what is safest for their setup.

John&Vicki · 06-14-2016, 09:29 AM

This thread has become fascinating. The central issue is essentially an aspect of intelligent, self-driving cars, that the X5 has built-in technology, i.e. self-driving ability, necessary to control a trailer with no added mechanical apoaratus such as weight distribution and sway control. If correct, this to me is a very big deal (VBD), a complete game changer in towing - time to sell our hitch company stock.

Has there been controlled testing of these purported capabilities? Considering that completely self-driving cars are a reality I don't doubt the capability of technology, but I wonder about the physics and implementation. It's a huge leap of trust to abandon proven mechanical towing technology in favor of car electronics.

I'd really like to hear more about this!

Thanks,
John

rostam · 06-14-2016, 09:56 AM

I think the electronic gizmo would work for trailers with lighter tongue weight. For trailers with heavier tongue weights, I would think a WDH is still necessary to restore some of front axle weight. My trailers tongue weight is average. Yet, it tows better with WDH than without.

I second the role of AWD (specially on German vehicles) on stability of the combo. I was amazed how stable our Mercedes was towing a very high profile rental whitebox trailer last year. Based on what I had read here ("stability comes from low center of gravity, independent suspension, aerodynamic shape OR a fancy hitch"), I was expecting the worst. I experienced what PPP hitch owners rave about ("two fingers on the steering wheel as semis blow past you") with two 600# Reese bars and no sway control. I attribute a lot of it to AWD.

NWRVR · 06-14-2016, 01:54 PM

When we towed with our Range Rover HSE we had 815 lbs. tongue weight and could really tell the difference of feel on the steering wheels of one less or one more link on the BlueOx Sway Pro. The self leveling air suspension took care of the level regardless of the WD setting and made for a great ride.

Caffeinated · 06-14-2016, 06:27 PM

Beautiful rig, nothing to add to the "WD hitch vs TV" discussion, but I hope to see you out there sometime, especially since my wife and I are retireing this summer.

Mike

Burnside Bob · 06-14-2016, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59ORLander

The electronics and the AWD and braking system is really very sophisticated in these things. They actually sense winds and body movement (ie directions being pushed out of the ordinary from where the steering is pointed) and reacts accordingly without the driver even noticing. It senses pitch and yaw and react in microseconds and they don't just "fail". The X drive system has been proven over the world for years now.

59ORLander, I'm envious. We just bought a moderately late model F350 because of the integrated brake controller. What isn't stated in Ford's description is that the brake controller system incorporates some of the same features as your X5 in sensing pitch and yaw and, similarly, uses the ABS and differentials to get in front of sway. I'm sure your 2012 is a better system than our 2010.

My understanding of these systems is that they are run by a PLD (Programmable Logic Device) which monitors the input from appropriate sensors and then directs braking or power to the tires of the tow vehicle and the trailer, countering sway. This is accomplished at a rate faster than a human can respond by a factor of 3 or more magnitudes. So you, the operator, aren't aware of what the system is doing. It is making adjustments at not quite light speed when we humans are stuck at +/- 750 millisecond response time.

Down the road, all of these systems will be integrated. Tesla is way far along that path and current Teslas have adaptive speed control and automatic lane changing. You set your intended speed and the car will sense all vehicles in your vicinity, their relative speeds, and change lanes for you, threading thru the traffic.

Very much the car of the future will be like a modern air liner. You, as the pilot, give the brains box some overall or "top level" instructions, and the brains box tells the engines, the airfoils, etc. how to realize those instructions. "Fly by wire" its called.

And the PLD model--if a refinement comes along--the mfgr can zap in a new program incorporating those changes. The hardware isn't changed, rather the software that runs the hardware is changed.

So I'm really looking forward to the future of Airstreaming in the driverless car era. Just punch in your destination and the tow vehicle will get you there--or at least to a fuel/recharge station along the way!! How cool would that be--Friday after work: "Car, take us to West Yellowstone Campground" and then go to sleep in your nice Airstream bunk and wake up at West Yellowstone, waiting in line to get that elusive campsite.

Well, we still won't be guaranteed a campsite, but thank you 59ORlander for pointing the way to get there!!